Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-17-05 12:38 PM - Post#4365
I'm sick of the secrets...
It is not rephrensible. I have no image as Scott as a maniac. I'm just telling you that two comments by underclassmen aren't truthful. And let's be honest here. These aren't bad lies. These are "Do I look fat in this dress" lies. Basically, nothing good can come out of telling the truth . I'm not calling these players dishonest or liars, I'm saying they're not telling the truth on this one subject. Deal with it. I'm sure that if an interview was going on and Scott and Max were answering questions and then asked about Joe and said, "no comment", it'd be state news.
Reprehensible my eye.
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T71
Sophomore
Posts: 161
Loc: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Reg: 11-23-04
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Re: But, Phil . . .
02-17-05 01:31 PM - Post#4366
In response to Jeff2sf
Actually, if you refer to the top of the page, in the box it says "select board". Regarding your most recent comments, they remain boring and tedious and offer no insight or positive additions to the conversation.
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SFlaQuaker
Postdoc
Posts: 2427
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: But, Phil . . .
02-17-05 01:53 PM - Post#4367
In response to T71
They added as much as your "i predict princeton wins at jadwin" comments did buddy.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23549
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: But, Phil . . .
02-17-05 02:09 PM - Post#4368
In response to SFlaQuaker
Let me save Jake the trouble. Cool it guys.
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Anonymous
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Re: Say what you mean, but it don't change a thing...
02-17-05 03:06 PM - Post#4369
In response to Jeff2sf
You know they are not being truthful how exactly? You've talked to them directly? If not, then you should not make the assertion that they are lying, even if you call them "white lies." This is reprehensible in my view. "Deal with it," as you like to say.
I am sick of semi-libelous comments about Scott being made based on rumor, hearsay, alleged discussions with parents, players, etc., none of which can be objectively verified. What we do have is an article in the Daily Princetonian that at least is subject to some kind of journalistic standard of verification - that is, the quotes and statements that appear in it have at least in theory been verified and researched.
Quote:
I'm sick of the secrets...
It is not rephrensible. I have no image as Scott as a maniac. I'm just telling you that two comments by underclassmen aren't truthful. And let's be honest here. These aren't bad lies. These are "Do I look fat in this dress" lies. Basically, nothing good can come out of telling the truth . I'm not calling these players dishonest or liars, I'm saying they're not telling the truth on this one subject. Deal with it. I'm sure that if an interview was going on and Scott and Max were answering questions and then asked about Joe and said, "no comment", it'd be state news.
Reprehensible my eye.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Say what you mean, but it don't change a thing...
02-17-05 03:42 PM - Post#4370
In response to
You're not going to get independently verified info on a coach until the coach is fired. The day before he's fired you may very well get a quote that says "Coach Scott is our coach and we fully support him." You've never worked in business or public relations have you? Speculation will run rampant on a message board and despite your denials, you'll have to deal with it. Coach Scott is tearing your team apart. You have to raise awareness of it and one way to do so is via a message board, despite your remonstrations to Bob Medina and Rob.
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bobmed
Sophomore
Posts: 129
Loc: Skillman, NJ
Reg: 09-03-02
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Re: Say what you mean, but it don't change a thing...
02-17-05 08:49 PM - Post#4371
In response to Jeff2sf
I rarely post here. The last time was to say that Martin was going to Yale. Few believed it at that time. My information is good or I do not post it. And no, I do not disclose my sources. Believe it or not - it's no nevermind to me.
Scott will not be let go and will be here for awhile. I only hope he alters his teaching technique. The players do believe that he has great basketball knowledge. And if he can learn to teach and lead.....
The great coaches are able to pass along their basketball knowledge within their "game" framework but taking into account the abilities of their players. Each group of players will bring different talents to the court. A good coach does not try to put a square peg into a round hole and, when it does not fit, hammer that peg into splinters.
Bob Medina
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Say what you mean, but it don't change a thing...
02-17-05 08:53 PM - Post#4372
In response to bobmed
Your fight is with your fellow alums, not me. Preach on brother.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Say what you mean, but it don't change a thing...
02-17-05 09:17 PM - Post#4373
In response to Jeff2sf
Actually, he also just disagreed with your bizarre deconstruction of the Daily Prince article.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Say what you mean, but it don't change a thing...
02-17-05 09:22 PM - Post#4374
In response to Chip Bayers
Who did? Oh, Bob? Well there's a great difference believing someone has alot of knowledge and believing they can lead people. For instance, I tend to agree with everything you say, you're clearly very smart, and yet your posts often get bombastic when someone dares disagree with you (Even if the person didn't know he was disagreeing with you, like in this case), so I don't think you'd be a good coach either.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Say what you mean, but it don't change a thing...
02-17-05 09:31 PM - Post#4375
In response to Chip Bayers
I also didn't deconstruct an article, so where do you get bizarre from? I simply said that Greenman's best interest do not lie with criticizing Coach Scott. If that's bizarre, I don't know what your definition is.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Say what you mean, but it don't change a thing...
02-17-05 09:32 PM - Post#4376
In response to Jeff2sf
This isn't about me Jeff. But nice try.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Say what you mean, but it don't change a thing...
02-17-05 09:34 PM - Post#4377
In response to Chip Bayers
Of course it's not about you, you're the one who butted in and called it a bizarre deconstruction.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Say what you mean, but it don't change a thing...
02-17-05 09:41 PM - Post#4378
In response to Jeff2sf
I commented on your argument in a post. That's not butting in. To quote your own all too recent words, "I post where the active topics take me. Deal with it."
Responding with a personal attack is not "dealing with it."
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Say what you mean, but it don't change a thing...
02-17-05 09:45 PM - Post#4379
In response to Chip Bayers
There was no personal attack there, I just said you can often get bombastic (To P38 among others) while making great points. You called my post bizarre. Which was wrong because, of course, it wasn't bizarre, and of course because you probably shouldn't just jump into a conversation and call it bizarre.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Say what you mean, but it don't change a thing...
02-17-05 10:08 PM - Post#4380
In response to Jeff2sf
That's not what you said. Don't backpedal and pretend you said something different.
You accused the players of lying. That's bizarre. As Bob Medina's cite of Dom Martin shows, you don't have to invent a Stockholm Syndrome of media theory to explain what players will do when they're dissatisified with a coach or their playing time. We've seen plenty of examples of the usual course at Princeton, Penn, Brown, and elsewhere: They talk privately about leaving the team (plenty of examples). Or there's public discussion about them leaving the team (see Logan, Andre). Or they actually leave the team (see Kach, Michael, or King, G.J.) Or they transfer (see the aforementioned Martin, Dominic, or Bailey, Harold).
What's least likely is that dissatisifed players are going to deliver quotes to the media about how great the coach is, packaged in insincere grins. I stand by my statement that to suggest they would is bizarre, and I'm obviously not alone in seeing it that way, judging from the other responses here to your suggestion. These are not totalitarian dictatorships. These kids are not kidnap victims.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Say what you mean, but it don't change a thing...
02-17-05 10:20 PM - Post#4381
In response to Chip Bayers
When you can tell me what good would come from criticizing a coach in public, we'll have some common ground. No one's answered that. When you can tell me how a college player avoids a direct question from a reporter about whether this is to blame on a coach, we'll have some common ground. You can't, thinking you can is bizarre. The questions have never been asked at Princeton before, so this is coming up more often. They may not have time to transfer, they may not want to transfer (Why would Greenman transfer, he's been there three years).
If you remember, even if we know people are privately talking about leaving the team, we're not allowed to discuss that.
Tell you what, when Scott Greenman and Luke Owings call a press conference to exonerate the coach, then I'll believe it. I'm not saying they're definitely not telling the truth, just that their best interests don't follow with criticizing the coach or no commenting when asked direct questions.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Say what you mean, but it don't change a thing...
02-17-05 11:29 PM - Post#4382
In response to Jeff2sf
Jeff, the basis for your venture into bizarre conspiracy theory is an inaccurate depiction of the interaction between Baumgarten and the players, and least as described in his column the Prince.
What was the direct question in the postgame press conference that Greenman answered? Baumgarten only paraphrases it, saying that "a reporter asked if the players and coaches were on the same page."
That's the most oblique way possible to ask if there are problems with the head coach. Scott isn't even mentioned by name. Greenman could have easily parroted back the question and said, "no, we're all on the same page," without going any further.
What's bizarre is for you to twist Baumgarten's paraphrase into "a direct question from a reporter about whether this is to blame on a coach" [I assume you meant "whether to put blame on a coach"], which Greenman somehow couldn't wriggle out of. It looks to me - as an experienced media professional who has asked a lot of questions in both press conferences and in one-on-one interviews - that he had plenty of wiggle room beyond "no comment," a direct criticism of Scott, or (as he offered) outright praise of Scott.
Meanwhile, you don't have any idea, from Baumgarten's column, what question was put to Schafer, let alone the context of the conversation was.
As for Greenman's status: if he was so dissatisfied he wanted to transfer after his junior year, he certainly wouldn't be the first kid to do so.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Say what you mean, but it don't change a thing...
02-17-05 11:37 PM - Post#4383
In response to Chip Bayers
Sorry, I'm lumping the comments of Schaeffer and Greenman together even though the article doesn't. As I said, I'm not deconstructing an article, just now allowing people to pass off public comments by players as "the end of the issue". I'm pointing out why that very well could be untrue (and in my opinion almost certainly is untrue).
Anyway, I object to you calling my comments bizarre, but that's your style, so I have to "Deal with it".
Finally, if I'm Greenman and I hate the situation, there are any number of reasons why I wouldn't leave... 1. I'm an optimist and hope things can change. 2. I love basketball and couldn't miss playing for a year. 3. I love Princeton, I was here before Scott, I made my life here, why should I have to leave.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Say what you mean, but it don't change a thing...
02-18-05 12:03 AM - Post#4384
In response to Jeff2sf
As far as I can tell, no one here attempted to "pass off the public comments by the players as 'the end of the issue.'"
T71 called it "a vastly different take" when he first posted the link. Not the same thing, is it?
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