jmverlin
Junior
Posts: 218
Age: 35
Reg: 07-18-12
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12-28-17 03:22 PM - Post#241472
My column after last night's win over DSU: http://www.cityofbasketballlove.com/news_article/s...
- Josh
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1125
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-28-17 03:58 PM - Post#241475
In response to jmverlin
Nice piece. Thanks for the good work.
Wondering if you have any insight on the Eddie Scott wrist injury you referenced?
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yoyo
Senior
Posts: 365
Reg: 03-25-09
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12-28-17 03:58 PM - Post#241476
In response to 91Quake
Thanks Josh, yes last night was fun and I agree we are finally emerging from the darkness.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1899
Reg: 11-29-04
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12-28-17 04:54 PM - Post#241482
In response to yoyo
"I think everyone on the team has that swagger about us, we all love each other and we’re all good friends and we’re all invested in each other, and we’re all going to work hard and that’s pretty much how the team runs.â€
I see gratuitous quotes from athletes all of the time, but I really believe Jones means it. This team really exudes this philosophy. And that is why it will be one of my favorite Penn teams - even if they don't win a championship. I felt the same way about the Paul Chambers 2nd place team. They didn't win, but they set the tone for the next decade of Penn championships. They worked their tails off.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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12-28-17 07:32 PM - Post#241485
In response to 91Quake
Nice piece. Thanks for the good work.
Wondering if you have any insight on the Eddie Scott wrist injury you referenced?
Eddie has a ligament issue in his wrist. Sidelined for a few weeks at least.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6412
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-28-17 11:04 PM - Post#241497
In response to PennFan10
Kind of related to my point about Jelani -- I believe that Scott is below the game limit for a medical redshirt. So if he is out for the season, he potentially could still have 4 full years of eligibility.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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12-28-17 11:50 PM - Post#241500
In response to SomeGuy
If you are considering redshirting in the Ivy League. That isn’t allowed. He’d have to play that 4th year at a non-league school. I’m assuming he just completed his semester instead of withdrawing from Penn for the year, similar to what Alex Rosenberg, Siyani Chambers and others have done.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6412
Reg: 11-22-04
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Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 01:23 AM - Post#241502
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
I believe that is a Harvard rule (among others), and not a league rule. It's been a while since Penn has had a 5th year player (so maybe the rule has changed), but we've had a number, and as best I can remember none took the year off from school. Obviously they can't graduate, but I think they can take 5 years to finish (and play 4 of them).
Tyler Bernardini is the last player to do it for Penn, I believe.
Edited by SomeGuy on 12-29-17 01:39 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 03:01 AM - Post#241505
In response to SomeGuy
That is correct. Yale rule too I think.
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 03:20 AM - Post#241506
In response to PennFan10
That is correct. Yale rule too I think.
And Princeton rule.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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jmverlin
Junior
Posts: 218
Age: 35
Reg: 07-18-12
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Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 10:43 AM - Post#241516
In response to SomeGuy
I believe that is a Harvard rule (among others), and not a league rule. It's been a while since Penn has had a 5th year player (so maybe the rule has changed), but we've had a number, and as best I can remember none took the year off from school. Obviously they can't graduate, but I think they can take 5 years to finish (and play 4 of them).
Tyler Bernardini is the last player to do it for Penn, I believe.
Does Matt MacDonald count? He's in his fifth year in college right now. I know he transferred in, but still.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 11:03 AM - Post#241517
In response to jmverlin
I believe that the Ivy League Rule prohibiting a fifth year of eligibility has been discussed on this Board and confirmed a few times in the past years.
A quick search yielded a College Insider article on Alex Rosenberg that provides:
"The Ivy League prohibits graduate students from competing in athletics, eliminating the medical redshirt concept that enables student-athletes in other conferences to receive a fifth year of eligibility. Had Rosenberg completed his coursework, graduated in 2015 and enrolled in a master’s program at Columbia, he would have been ineligible for the Lions in 2015-16, despite logging minutes in just three seasons.
A few days after his Oct. 28 surgery, Rosenberg withdrew from school."
http://collegeinsider.com/ari-kramer/c234/alex- ros...
I've also found multiple sources stating that the Ivy League expects an athlete to complete his/her degree in the first 8 semesters after enrollment. Redshirting is explicity discussed by Ivy Rules and either prohibited or discouraged to the point where it is impossible for basketball players due to the academic calendar.
This is why Ivy players who graduate after 4 years but have played less than 3 seasons have to go outside the league to use that elibility. For example:
Hans Brase (Princeton - Iowa St.)
Henry Caruso (Princeton - Santa Clara)
Shonn Miller (Cornell - UConn)
David Onuorah (Cornell - UConn)
Patrick Steeves (Harvard - GW)
Rafael Maya (Brown - Pitt)
The alternative is to withdraw from school, then return for your fourth academic and athletic year:
Siyani Chambers
Alex Rosenberg
Tony Hicks was different, as he withdrew from basketball, not enrollment. He wanted to leave Penn basketball, but was able to retain his eligibility outside the Ivy League because he hadn't played 4 years.
Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 12-29-17 11:10 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-29-17 11:18 AM - Post#241518
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Yeah, bud, why don't you sit over in the corner while you let people who know do the talking. Penn DEFINITELY allows people 5 years to complete 4 years of athletic eligibility so long as they don't graduate. It has happened a bunch of times but includes:
Tyler Bernardini
Frank Brown
Andy Barratta
Geoff Owens
We don't have a barbaric and unfair student rule that makes people withdraw from classes just because they hurt themselves in service of the university.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6412
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 11:24 AM - Post#241519
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
I believe that article was wrong -- it's a Columbia rule, not a league rule. In regard to Miller, I believe he could have stayed at Cornell if he did not graduate, and I think there was some disappointment that he chose to play his 4th year elsewhere. At least BRF was disappointed.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-29-17 02:27 PM - Post#241540
In response to SomeGuy
Yes, at Penn (and about half the other Ivy's) it is possible to take a 5th year of eligibility with a medical hardship waiver. I believe the other necessary element is that you have to be working towards certain academic requirements, but ironically it can't be graduate work (as I recall kids usually take up a second undergraduate major).
Personally think it is ridiculous that the other schools don't allow it without leaving school which is completely counter to what is best academically for the students.
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section110
Masters Student
Posts: 847
Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-29-17 02:46 PM - Post#241543
In response to Mike Porter
I think the Penn players, who include Vince Curran, took a double major. They did not do graduate or professional school work.
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 3994
Reg: 11-23-04
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12-29-17 05:44 PM - Post#241577
In response to section110
And you will be lucky enough to pay another year of tuition.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6412
Reg: 11-22-04
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12-30-17 12:55 AM - Post#241607
In response to Old Bear
Curious what the fin aid implications are. Can you get 5 years of aid?
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Big R&B Truth
Masters Student
Posts: 427
Loc: Back Waters of New Englan...
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-06-18 07:23 PM - Post#242476
In response to SomeGuy
Who cares about the Ivy or Harvard rule. The most important take I got from this article is that the Abner's rule is still in existence. But, when did it change from meatball subs to cheesesteaks?
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-06-18 10:17 PM - Post#242507
In response to Big R&B Truth
It was always cheesesteaks when I was a student (Dan Solomito era to age myself) so at least last 20 years.
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