TheEmpire
Freshman
Posts: 29
Age: 33
Reg: 05-31-15
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07-27-18 11:59 AM - Post#259545
‘I do this’: How Darnell Foreman earned a place on the walls of The Palestra
http://www.theempireofphilacollegebb all.com/penn/i...
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1154
Reg: 07-28-07
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07-27-18 12:00 PM - Post#259546
In response to TheEmpire
Great article! Congrats to Darnell.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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07-27-18 02:47 PM - Post#259553
In response to SteveChop
Great stuff about a great kid. I am very happy to have been proven wrong as never in my wildest dreams did I think he could do what he did this last year. He will be remembered fondly forever for giving us that title gift and my smile will beam every time I think about that 1st half ending.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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07-27-18 07:36 PM - Post#259564
In response to Quakers03
I complained about his shooting and slow ball movement all season until the end - where he showed that his mind could overcome any many of obstacles. He deserves a spot in the Pantheon of heroes. We might need his photo to cover up another guy's, but that remains to be seen.
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AntiUngvar
Masters Student
Posts: 530
Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
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07-27-18 08:13 PM - Post#259565
In response to Penndemonium
Don't know about the Pantheon, but Foreman should've been chosen 1st All-Ivy League-hands down; he did SO much more to contribute to making his team better than, for example, the other 2nd team all league guard selection, Columbia's Mike Smith.
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omegahouse
Freshman
Posts: 84
Reg: 12-06-04
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07-27-18 10:52 PM - Post#259567
In response to AntiUngvar
Agreed all around: Darnell worked and labored and sweated and MADE himself a truly great cog, teammate, contributor and Quaker. Hats off to him. Here’s hoping more of his ilk grace the Palestra in Red & Blue.
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AntiUngvar
Masters Student
Posts: 530
Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
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07-28-18 11:39 AM - Post#259575
In response to omegahouse
Very well put!
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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07-30-18 12:08 PM - Post#259634
In response to AntiUngvar
Great job, TheEmpire. Your player pieces have been awesome.
I'd like to now take my victory lap. Before the season I predicted Foreman was a lock for being Penn's best guard. I was a distinct minority opinion - I remember Jeff agreeing, maybe there were 1 or 2 others.
But not a full victory lap because Darnell exceeded my expectations - and on a bad foot!
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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07-30-18 01:05 PM - Post#259638
In response to TheLine
Darnell should have been 1st or 2nd team All Conference. He was excellent and will be hard to replace.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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07-30-18 02:02 PM - Post#259644
In response to PennFan10
I think some are forgetting that in the first half of the season, Darnell slowed down the ball movement, was a poor 3 pt. shooter, a poor FT shooter, and didn't have great efficiency. He was the best we had, but that had as much to do with our roster as anything else. Some people had noted that our team struggled in games where he took 10 shots or more. His assist rate was quite low, and A/TO was nothing special. His FT shooting was poor. The best thing you could have said about him was his rebounding. This was often against really weak competition in our non-league schedule.
It wasn't until the Ivy season that he started to solidify, and it wasn't until the second half of the Ivy season that he really imposed himself into game outcomes.
I think he was a hero for his performance, but let's not be revisionist about 1st or 2nd team All-Ivy level play. He might have deserved it if you only watched his last 6-10 games.
Darnell should have been 1st or 2nd team All Conference. He was excellent and will be hard to replace.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32834
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-30-18 02:15 PM - Post#259648
In response to Penndemonium
Let me just add that despite not recalling any debate as to who was Penn's best guard (I DO remember the argument over whether Antonio was any good at all), I give Darnell total credit for playing at his peak during the stretch drive, the playoff and the Kansas game.
I do not think, however, that Penn will struggle that much in the backcourt. The pieces are there to be even better, although it may take some time.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3777
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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Feature story on Darnell Foreman
07-30-18 02:16 PM - Post#259649
In response to Penndemonium
I have to agree. Darnell's performance over the totality of the Ivy season probably wasn't good enough to earn 1st or 2nd team all ivy. HM was a fair award. He was on the all-tournament team, which was definitely deserved. And Darnell will always occupy a very special place in any Penn fan's heart. He played like an ubermensch when it really counted, and showed a level of grit, character and class to which most of us can only aspire.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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07-30-18 03:22 PM - Post#259668
In response to Silver Maple
Foreman should've been 2nd team All-Ivy based on his advanced metrics, though guys with sub-20% usage rates typically don't make the cut unless they are DPOY caliber.
P38, I'm sure I can find a quote where you rated Foreman below both Woods and Goodman.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32834
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-30-18 03:30 PM - Post#259673
In response to TheLine
I remember saying many times that Woods was a higher regarded recruit and that when they played together before Antonio's academic troubles, Woods was the better player. I don't remember saying that he would be better than Foreman last year nor that Goodman was going to be better either. But if you have the tape, the proof will be there.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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07-30-18 04:25 PM - Post#259687
In response to palestra38
I remember saying many times that Woods was a higher regarded recruit and that when they played together before Antonio's academic troubles, Woods was the better player. I don't remember saying that he would be better than Foreman last year nor that Goodman was going to be better either. But if you have the tape, the proof will be there.
I don't know if we want to rehash that debate, but Woods still has the potential to be the better player. Time will tell and I hope he is.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32834
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-30-18 04:38 PM - Post#259694
In response to Penndemonium
What he did last year was play extremely tough defense and not try and push it offensively, although his shot got better as the year went on. It's tough to tell if he can take that next step to be an offensive leader. But he'll play many minutes next year.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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07-30-18 04:38 PM - Post#259695
In response to Penndemonium
Went through the best of the Red and Blue scrimmage thread. Will now bathe for the next 4 hrs. Or lie in a bed of nails as penance.
So proud of this comment as it was spot on:
http://boards.basketball-u.com/showpost.php?post/2...
This was a fun comment to read now :
http://boards.basketball-u.com/showpost.php?post/2...
I have to rep this comment from Colin as it's one to remember before we have our next "who's gonna play" endless thread.
http://boards.basketball-u.com/showpost.php?post/2...
Where I say Goodman will be better than Woods last year. Was wrong about that. Need to fess up.
http://boards.basketball-u.com/showpost.php?post/2...
We now hit paydirt. This is where you say Woods-Goodman is your backcourt. Meaning Foreman #3 in the discussion.
http://boards.basketball-u.com/showpost.php?post/2...
http://boards.basketball-u.com/showpost.php?post/2...
I say this:
http://boards.basketball-u.com/showpost.php?post/2...
Your response (lolz):
http://boards.basketball-u.com/showpost.php?post/2...
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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07-30-18 04:39 PM - Post#259696
In response to Penndemonium
This is where efficiency metrics go way off base. You can't ignore talent. Other than Tony Hicks, Antonio Woods is the most talented guard we recruited since Zack. He started as a freshman with a BAD team. He beat out Foreman in doing so. And he was a dynamic player, able to get to the rim with great strength. He's just a better player than Foreman and it is kind of silly to suggest that because Foreman's metrics with a much better team 2 years later were better than Woods as a freshman or a few games as a soph means that he now is a better player. I am sure Woods has worked on his game.
But we'll see soon enough. I think he'll be starting before long.
from a thread called 2018-2019 starters which, now that i think about, seems mis-named.
my heart's not in this argument though.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32834
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-30-18 04:42 PM - Post#259698
In response to Jeff2sf
OK, I think that is consistent with what I said--all I was predicting was that he would be starting (which he was) and questioning whether Foreman would be better now. But to the extent I went slightly too far, yes, Foreman was the better player, especially down the stretch. But Antonio was a crucial factor.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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07-30-18 04:43 PM - Post#259699
In response to palestra38
Agree.
Though kinda funny you actually said we couldn't win the title with Darnell as point. That's priceless.
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