Big R&B Truth
Masters Student
Posts: 427
Loc: Back Waters of New Englan...
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-08-06 01:53 AM - Post#17144
That had to be the worst 1st half in the last 15 years.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 01:58 AM - Post#17145
In response to Big R&B Truth
Yes to both. Let's see if they play with any emotion in the second half.
-Mike
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 03:44 AM - Post#17146
In response to Mike Porter
Well... they gave a hell of an effort in the second half, so it is hard to be negative, but this team is just not good enough to wait until the second half to start playing (then again what team is?). The interesting thing to me, is that this is not a recent occurrence with this team. Throughout the back half of the Ivy schedule, the team has come out flat just about every single game. I have to think Dunphy has to bear some of the blame for this.
-Mike
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Big R&B Truth
Masters Student
Posts: 427
Loc: Back Waters of New Englan...
Reg: 11-23-04
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 04:10 AM - Post#17147
In response to Mike Porter
Penn was lucky to go 5-2 in the second half of the season. This team could have easily gone 2-5 or 3-4 to some pretty poor teams even by Ivy standards.
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SFlaQuaker
Postdoc
Posts: 2427
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 04:15 AM - Post#17148
In response to Big R&B Truth
And they were 2 points (10 seconds?)from going 7-0.
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Big R&B Truth
Masters Student
Posts: 427
Loc: Back Waters of New Englan...
Reg: 11-23-04
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 04:21 AM - Post#17149
In response to SFlaQuaker
Quote:
And they were 2 points (10 seconds?)from going 7-0.
Yes but these were teams which Penn easily beat in the first half. Either all of these teams figured out how to exploit Penn’s weaknesses, or the Quakers are on a downward slide.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 04:34 AM - Post#17150
In response to Big R&B Truth
Or seven of Penn's last 10 were on the road.
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Howard Gensler
Postdoc
Posts: 4141
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 04:36 AM - Post#17151
In response to mrjames
...With two guys hurt.
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SFlaQuaker
Postdoc
Posts: 2427
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 04:52 AM - Post#17152
In response to Howard Gensler
And one more sick. And I count 3 guys hurt.
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AndyAtPenn
goober
Posts: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 12-05-04
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 05:15 AM - Post#17153
In response to Mike Porter
We blew this game in the first half with a dozen turnovers ( many unforced ) and a handful of blown layups ( many uncontested). Then we had a four point lead with two minutes to go in OT and choked it away.
That was the worst game I've seen recently.
- Andy
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Red n Blue
Masters Student
Posts: 898
Loc: South Jersey
Reg: 11-29-04
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 05:28 AM - Post#17154
In response to AndyAtPenn
It seemed like they came out with the attitude that the game didn't matter and scored just a dozen points in the half. Dunphy must have given them a speech that just blistered the paint on the walls at the half. Then the short bench took its toll when Zoller and Danley fouled out. To his credit, Kachinski managed to score a basket in overtime. Really hard loss.
The free throw shooting on this club really hurts them in close games.
I think Princeton would have gotten blown out of the gym if this game mattered, but it is easy to make statements about what would have happened. I'm really sorry to see Joe Scott get a win over Penn.
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Howard Gensler
Postdoc
Posts: 4141
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 05:48 AM - Post#17155
In response to AndyAtPenn
Choked it away is pretty harsh.
What about the comeback from five down in the final 1:20 of regulation? Doesn't that count for something? Or did Princeton choke that away?
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AndyAtPenn
goober
Posts: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 12-05-04
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 06:21 AM - Post#17156
In response to Howard Gensler
I'm going to go ahead and say that Princeton choked at the end of regulation. I don't want to get caught up in the semantics of 'choke', but we played stupidly in the last two minutes again. We did it at Brown too.
Tonight, we were looking for steals while up four points in OT. Inexcusable. Oz's foul was unnecessary and swung the momentum for Princeton by giving them free points and making it a single possession game.
- AAP
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 06:25 AM - Post#17157
In response to Howard Gensler
Considering the effort necessary to even force overtime, I would agree that "choked it away" is harsh. This game was lost in the first half when no one on the Penn team seemed even remotely interested in playing. Seriously, we scored 12 freakin points in the first half. I am proud that the Quakers won the Ivy Championship, but this team really staggered to the finish line against some meek competition. Injuries are definite factor behind that, so it is what it is I guess. At the end of the day, I will consider us fortunate if we can still manage a 14 seed. Beyond that, I will hope for some healing over the next 10 days and a favorable pairing.
-Mike
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4366
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 10:34 AM - Post#17158
In response to AndyAtPenn
Not sure who choked, but I wish, notwithstanding the injury/illness situation, that Fran found a way to get Zoller out of the game when he picked up his 4th foul.
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Unknown Tiger
newbie
Posts: 14
Reg: 08-24-05
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 11:25 AM - Post#17159
In response to Red n Blue
'I think Princeton would have gotten blown out of the gym if this game mattered'
Hopefully your team doeen't feel that way. Penn - Princeton ALWAYS matters. Especially when it's the game you ride into the tournament.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4366
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 11:59 AM - Post#17160
In response to Unknown Tiger
I agree with you 100%. Princeton deserves a lot of credit. Penn is a tired team that crawled to the finish line.
Nevertheless, there is some sort of psychology that seems to impact these type of games. Last night reminded me of the game a few years back when we pushed that top 25 Tiger team to OT in the finale at the Palestra. In that game, the Princeton team had enough poise to pull out the victory. Last night we ran out of gas after a long hard chase to get back into it and PU was the team that executed with 9 seconds left and the game on the line.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23492
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 12:01 PM - Post#17161
In response to AsiaSunset
Agreed. A begrudging tip of the hat to the Tigers for a well deserved win. Looks like next year could be a real battle for the P's.
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Penn94
PhD Student
Posts: 1461
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Embarrassing (Defense)
03-08-06 12:01 PM - Post#17162
In response to Big R&B Truth
You know what? The offensive impotence didn't bother me NEARLY as much as Penn's complete lack of disciplined defense in the first half. Do you EVER remember PU getting as many backdoors in an entire GAME vs. Penn as they got in the 1st half last night? Offense comes in spurts, but what makes/made the great Penn teams of the past great is that when they were struggling offensively the defense was always a constant and always there to keep them in the game until the offense kicked into gear. 12 points in one half is pathetic, clearly. But giving up 28 points to that Princeton team is more pathetic, in my opinion. Penn should have an edge on defense at every position over Princeton (except maybe Owings-Zoller) and there is no excuse for allowing 28 points. If Penn goes into the half only trailing 19-12 instead of 28-12, then we're all bemoaning the terrible offensive performance but are confident that the Quakers can overcome that deficit.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32877
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Embarrassing
03-08-06 12:52 PM - Post#17163
In response to 10Q
Frankly, I think Penn will be much better next year and I don't see Princeton closing the gap. Last night was the natural result of the unfortunate decision to shorten the bench, even the in the face of injury and illness. The defensive lapses are a result of tired legs. After the final Ivy trip, in which our starters played a ridiculous number of minutes, even in the Brown game after clinching, did anyone expect Penn to be fresh for this game?
Dunphy gets the credit for winning the championship ... he could and would have been second guessed for eternity had the short bench resulted in losses in all of the close games the second half of the season. But even aside from the fact that 5 of the first 7 were at home and 5 of the last 7 on the road, the first 7 were 7-0 with an average margin of victory of 26, the last 7 were 5-2 with an average margin of victory of 5. That suggests more than simply a home/road variation or the use of zones against us. It strongly suggests fatigue and injury. There simply is no reason in my mind why Votel/Lewis/Franklin got no playing time when Danley couldn't breathe and Zoller was getting the crap kicked out of him.
Big Kudos to Ibby yesterday---even though he missed the key FT. He refused to lose. Penn needs a couple of other guys who play with that intensity next week or it's going to be very ugly.
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