mbaprof
Senior
Posts: 346
Age: 67
Reg: 12-24-11
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01-22-16 01:33 PM - Post#199932
Hey guys, what do you think about having a tournament and having it at the Palestra (at least for first few years)
Obviously it might give PENN a little bit of an edge but its an amazing venue , every team plays there every year, rooting is pretty neutralized when tickets are evenly distributed (as was the case for the recent revival of Big Five doubleheader which was a great event)
Philly is a great destination these days, restaurants, lots of reasonably priced great hotels, stuff for non basketball spouses to do. Driving/train distance for everyone in league. TV loves it, CBS carried the doubleheader this week.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-22-16 02:31 PM - Post#199935
In response to mbaprof
If it passed (the Ivy office has put a gag order on the info, given what happened before the vote), then a four-game tournament at The Palestra is what would happen.
No word on whether it passed yet.
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hoopla
Masters Student
Posts: 486
Age: 50
Reg: 08-28-12
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01-22-16 03:27 PM - Post#199940
In response to mrjames
What happened before the vote?
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OneIvyOne
Junior
Posts: 201
Loc: West
Reg: 08-28-13
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01-22-16 06:39 PM - Post#199955
In response to mrjames
Four game or four team tournament?
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-22-16 07:38 PM - Post#199959
In response to OneIvyOne
Ha. Yeah... Team... Whoops.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2819
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-22-16 09:09 PM - Post#199963
In response to mrjames
.???
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2701
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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01-30-16 12:51 PM - Post#200492
In response to Tiger69
Watched Harvard dominate for stretches in every game, but noting Harvard has likely dug a big hole and is chasing three undefeated teams, I'm requesting that the Ivy League tournament start this year!
Self-serving? Absolutely!
Actually supports argument against the tournament? Absolutely!
Harvard didn't win so it deserves what it gets.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2819
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-30-16 01:46 PM - Post#200494
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Princeton dug itself an early hole a couple of years ago. But, as I felt then and still do, a tournament sucks if it undoes the outcome of a 14 game champion.
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2215
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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01-30-16 10:09 PM - Post#200556
In response to Tiger69
So what the ---- is taking them so long to make the announcement? And what happened before the vote? Mike, you're killing us here!
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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02-01-16 01:09 PM - Post#200719
In response to dperry
This is the second time a comment like that has been made without further explanation. Got to love the secrecy of this league...
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-02-16 12:38 PM - Post#200788
In response to Quakers03
Sorry, folks, #reallife is has gotten in the way for a bit.
I know nothing. Been frozen out at this point like everyone else. I've sort of felt (and expressed publicly) that leading up to the December meeting, if things got too public and the presidents felt pressure, they would respond with an action that would indicate that no one can tell them what to do.
I maintain that it will happen. But I think it will happen in a way that allows the presidents to demonstrate it was done on their terms, not anyone else's.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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02-02-16 02:01 PM - Post#200797
In response to mrjames
One of the more irrelevant teams in the league has the only venue which can host this, ensuring an affordable location which isn't going to provide a home court advantage.
Does that help?
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2701
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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Ivy Tournament at the Palestra?
02-06-16 10:36 AM - Post#200978
In response to TheLine
Hypothetical:
- Harvard has lead in second halves of first four games, but horrendous free throw shooting and strong finishes by opponents results in 1-3 start.
- Zena gets injured in game 4, contributing to losses against Columbia, Princeton and Penn and a 1-5 start.
- Harvard plays respectably through remainder of season, splitting remaining 8 contests. Zena handled carefully so as to allow him to complete season healthy.
- Yale (12-2), Princeton (12-2), Columbia (12-2) and Harvard (5-9) make tournament playoff, as dominance at the top and dogfights at the bottom drag down records of Cornell, Brown, Penn and Dartmouth. Havard goes 0-6 against YPC and finishes 13-17 overall.
- Behind a rested Zena and unexceptional free throw results (a significant improvement compared to the prior 30 games), Harvard wins league tournament.
- Due to 2 conference losses plus another in the league tournament no other teams are considered for NCAA at large spot.
Anyone still want a tournament?
What if Yale finishes 14-0 and has a chance for an at large bid?
Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 02-06-16 10:38 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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mbaprof
Senior
Posts: 346
Age: 67
Reg: 12-24-11
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Re: Ivy Tournament at the Palestra?
02-07-16 10:25 AM - Post#201095
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
of course in the above scenario, there would be a two game playoff involving three teams anyway
If anyone attended the recent "revival" of a Big Five doubleheader at the Palestra, you would have seen what a special place it is when you have four teams with highly engaged fans bases who know the other teams and the players and coaches.
Again Ill admit bias as I would love to attend and its probably PENN's best chance of having a change to play for the tournament at the end of the season with the strength around the league.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2701
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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Ivy Tournament at the Palestra?
02-07-16 11:53 AM - Post#201104
In response to mbaprof
I just want everyone to note that in my hypothetical correctly 'predicted' Harvard's loss at Penn yesterday. Painful Harvard game to watch, nice win for Penn.
Hope the rest of my hypothetical pans out.
By the way, in response to mbaprof, yes, there would be a three team playoff anyway, but those teams would have earned it. It not unlikely that Yale wins outright at 13-1 or 14-0. In that instance, if there was a tournament, imagine if one or more of Sherrod/Sears/Mason get in quick foul trouble against a theoretical 4th seeded Crimson in a first round playoff? Even worse, what if there is a one game injury (as happened to Sears this year and two years ago)? 14-0 upset by 5-9? Would Yale (currently 58th KenPom) earn an at large bid? Remember, #70 Yale (11-3) was passed over by both NCAA and NIT last year.
Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 02-07-16 11:54 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Kit
Senior
Posts: 380
Loc: Central Massachusetts
Reg: 11-29-04
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Re: Ivy Tournament at the Palestra?
02-07-16 04:15 PM - Post#201122
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
You're dreaming if you think Yale can earn an at-large bid. No Ivy has ever done it, and none will ever do so (Provided the field stays at 68).
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Ivy Tournament at the Palestra?
02-08-16 12:22 PM - Post#201163
In response to Kit
That's just ridiculous. An Ivy at-large will happen, and if we have the tournament, it will probably happen soon. Heck, it could actually happen next year.
If Kyle Casey isn't sick when Harvard loses by 3 to Michigan, the Crimson probably would have put this to bed in 2011.
I can very easily see a Top 50 Harvard team in the 2017-2020 timeframe that loses in the conf tourney and gets an at-large bid. Next year, I'd wager that both the Crimson and Tigers will be Top 50 teams. This is so much closer to happening than anyone stuck in the past could possibly fathom.
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whitakk
Masters Student
Posts: 523
Age: 33
Reg: 11-11-14
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02-08-16 08:18 PM - Post#201207
In response to mrjames
On the women's side, Princeton's going to have a real shot this year if it loses a playoff to Penn at 13-1.
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JadwinGeorge
Senior
Posts: 357
Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
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02-08-16 08:52 PM - Post#201208
In response to whitakk
I admit I'm stuck in the past, but I can accept that a tournament may be approved. I do not yet understand why.
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2215
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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02-08-16 10:50 PM - Post#201213
In response to whitakk
On the women's side, Princeton's going to have a real shot this year if it loses a playoff to Penn at 13-1.
Actually, that's not clear at the moment. To begin with, right now Penn and Princeton are virtually tied in the RPI. You could give the nod to Princeton based on best NC (Duquesne at 25 vs. Colo. St. at 62), but it's not that much of a difference, and of course under your scenario, Penn will have beaten Princeton 2 out of 3. Right now, Penn is 44 in the RPI and Princeton 47. Well, there are 18 conferences whose current leaders are behind both teams, so that takes us up to 46 right there, and that's before we get into the other factors the committee takes into consideration, most of which do not favor the Ivies. Let's put it this way; ESPN's bracketology, which is usually very accurate, not only doesn't have Princeton in right now, they're not even on the bubble.
Now, it is true that both teams' RPI's have gone up quite a bit since the start of the league season (right after they met, they were both in the high 50's-low 60's, whereas now they're in the mid-40's). If they both win out against the rest of the league and some of their opponents continue to rise, they might both get up into the 30's and two bids would start to look more realistic. However, we've got a long way to go to get there, and even if they do both go 13-1, it's not guaranteed that their SOS will be enough to get both over the top.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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