Streamers
Professor
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02-04-17 12:16 PM - Post#220380
Forgive me if this has been answered before, but I searched all over this site and others trying to get the list of tie breakers for the Ivy tournament seeding. Anyone have that? There is a high probability of ties with regard to both league records, head-head, etc. What would be next? point differential? other common opponents?
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Tiger69
Postdoc
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Reg: 11-23-04
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02-04-17 12:28 PM - Post#220381
In response to Streamers
Tie breaker 1): Team that will concedeNCAA spot to the 14 game Champion in event that that tie breaker team wins post season tourney.
If more than 1 team qualifies in 1) above,
Tie Breaker 2): Team whose starters can eat the most pizza in one hour.
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mrjames
Professor
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Reg: 11-21-04
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Tie breakers
02-04-17 12:46 PM - Post#220385
In response to Tiger69
Tiebreakers:
1) Head-to-head
2) Record against already qualified tournament teams (this has been reported differently by some as taking the record against each team independently, starting with the 1-seed, then 2-seed, then 3-seed)
3) Average rating from a variety of systems: BPI, RPI, KenPom, Sagarin, there may be one or two others
4) Coin flip
As I've mentioned in other spots, under this tiebreaking system, if Harvard had lost to Princeton during the final weekend last season, and thus Penn and Harvard both finished at 5-9, it would have come down to the ratings tiebreaker, which Harvard would have won - so needing the ratings tiebreaker isn't totally farfetched.
Most likely, the ratings tiebreaker ladder would stack up like this:
1) PRIN
2) YALE
3) HARV
4) PENN
5) COLU
6) BRN
7) CORN
8) DART
It's not particularly likely that we get to that level (especially if Brown wins at Columbia tonight), but hope that helps!
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8240
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-04-17 01:52 PM - Post#220390
In response to mrjames
Thanks!
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dperry
Postdoc
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Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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Re: Tie breakers
02-06-17 12:59 AM - Post#220640
In response to mrjames
3) Average rating from a variety of systems: BPI, RPI, KenPom, Sagarin, there may be one or two others
One assumes that this list is different for the women, since KenPom and BPI do not rate them.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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mrjames
Professor
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Reg: 11-21-04
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02-06-17 09:20 AM - Post#220645
In response to dperry
I don't think the women have ratings at all, but I don't remember exactly. The men's hoops coaches just added that because they basically wanted to guarantee that we wouldn't get to a coin flip. I don't think the women's coaches had the same trepidation.
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IvyBballFan
Masters Student
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02-07-17 12:33 AM - Post#220751
In response to mrjames
I don't think the women have ratings at all, but I don't remember exactly.
Here are three places where NCAAWB teams are rated on a rolling basis:
www.rpiratings.com/womrate.php
realtimerpi.com/college_Women_basketb all_rpi.html
www.masseyratings.com/
Not clear how accurate they are, but they do exist.
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mrjames
Professor
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02-07-17 01:29 AM - Post#220753
In response to IvyBballFan
Sorry - I was unclear. There are definitely plenty of sites that provide women's basketball ratings. What I meant was that the Ivy women's tiebreakers don't include ratings as one of the steps like the men's tiebreakers do.
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digamma
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02-12-17 11:13 AM - Post#221484
In response to mrjames
So, thinking about tie breaker scenarios where either Harvard or Yale finish 12-2 with Princeton. In that scenario, pretty much the only way Princeton isn't the #1 seed is if the tie is with Harvard and someone other than Columbia is the fourth team in?
Otherwise we always go to the third prong which Princeton wins?
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mrjames
Professor
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Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-12-17 11:37 AM - Post#221496
In response to digamma
I'm making assumptions on how they'll break seeding ties for teams *in* the tournament versus to get into the tournament, but assuming the rules are the same, here's what I'd see happening:
Most likely Princeton would drop the game at Yale AND one of its other road games or home vs. Harvard. Meanwhile, for Harvard or Yale to get to 12-2 (they can't all get to 12-2 together because of Harvard's loss to Columbia), either one would have to beat Princeton and the other one to get there.
Let's take those two separately:
Harvard/Princeton at 12-2
This actually favors Harvard if Princeton's other loss is at Yale. Harvard would have to win out (including vs. Yale and at Princeton) to get to 12-2. At that point it would have split with Princeton, but would have swept No. 3 Yale, whereas Princeton just split.
If Princeton beats Yale but loses at Columbia, then Princeton is favored due to the ratings tiebreaker. If Princeton beats Yale but loses one of the other non-Columbia road games, then it all depends on who gets into that fourth spot, but probably favors Princeton (because either Columbia is 4th - a Princeton tiebreak win - or Penn is - at worst kicking it to the ratings tiebreak where Princeton wins).
Yale/Princeton at 12-2:
Yale is completely dominated in the tiebreakers. Either it finishes with the exact same results as Princeton, kicking it to the ratings tiebreak, where it loses, or Princeton sweeps Harvard and loses some other game, meaning that Princeton would win on record versus the No. 3 seed.
So, really, there's only one realistic (but still highly, highly unlikely) way that Princeton doesn't win a tiebreak for the number one seed.
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digamma
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02-12-17 02:04 PM - Post#221513
In response to mrjames
Let's take those two separately:
Harvard/Princeton at 12-2
This actually favors Harvard if Princeton's other loss is at Yale. Harvard would have to win out (including vs. Yale and at Princeton) to get to 12-2. At that point it would have split with Princeton, but would have swept No. 3 Yale, whereas Princeton just split.
If Princeton beats Yale but loses at Columbia, then Princeton is favored due to the ratings tiebreaker. If Princeton beats Yale but loses one of the other non-Columbia road games, then it all depends on who gets into that fourth spot, but probably favors Princeton (because either Columbia is 4th - a Princeton tiebreak win - or Penn is - at worst kicking it to the ratings tiebreak where Princeton wins).
I think the underllined point is where I was getting mixed up with the record vs. other qualified teams. Didn't know if it was total combined record or going line by line. If line by line, I'm totally on the same page.
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