rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3050
Reg: 10-20-14
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02-27-17 05:25 PM - Post#223905
Jonathan Tannenwald, with some assistance from Mike James, has come up with all of the playoff results from this weekend's games.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/c ollege/...
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8217
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-27-17 06:45 PM - Post#223923
In response to rbg
Wow...and thanks!
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1345
Reg: 12-08-04
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Tiebreak Scenarios
02-27-17 09:08 PM - Post#223942
In response to Streamers
Maybe I'm missing it (and I'm not interested in devoting hours to figuring this out) but I don't understand how they avoid the circular problem of applying tiebreakers for, say, #4 that require looking at W-L record versus #7, when you have to apply tiebreakers to determine #7 that are partly based on W-L versus #4.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21192
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Tiebreak Scenarios
02-27-17 09:30 PM - Post#223944
In response to sparman
According to the tiebreaking rules, you break the ties in hierarchical order. So the #4 tie gets broken first.
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umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts: 475
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Tiebreak Scenarios
02-27-17 09:59 PM - Post#223951
In response to sparman
Maybe I'm missing it (and I'm not interested in devoting hours to figuring this out) but I don't understand how they avoid the circular problem of applying tiebreakers for, say, #4 that require looking at W-L record versus #7, when you have to apply tiebreakers to determine #7 that are partly based on W-L versus #4.
Let's say you need to break 4 and 5, and 6 and 7 are also tied. You compare the combined records of 4 vs 6 and 7 vs 5 vs 6 and 7.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-27-17 10:06 PM - Post#223953
In response to umbrellaman
Correct. Ties are broken down the ladder so tied teams further down the standings are treated together if tied.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1345
Reg: 12-08-04
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Re: Tiebreak Scenarios
02-28-17 11:24 AM - Post#224002
In response to umbrellaman
So this means that it's possible (theoretically; I have no idea how realistically) for the tie for #4 to have been broken with the eventual #4 having a worse record versus the ultimate #6 (after tie-breaking with #7) than #5 had versus ultimate #6?
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
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02-28-17 11:31 AM - Post#224003
In response to sparman
In that unlikely event there will be a 2 out of 3 pie-throwing contest at Robin Harris to determine the winner of the #4 team.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21192
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Tiebreak Scenarios
02-28-17 08:04 PM - Post#224070
In response to sparman
In case you missed it, the saga continues.
The chachams in Princeton left yet another item ambiguous and is only being cleared up thanks to Mike James and Jonathan Tannenwald's persistent questioning. Check Mike's twitter account for this afternoon's latest. Apparently they now WILL break any ties among the 6-7-8 seeds, if necessary, before breaking a 4-5 tie.
This once again changes the calculus. No matter what happens, the Ivy folks need a complete makeover of the rules for next year. In some cases, far more clarity and precision are required. In others, the criteria themselves need to be scrapped or at minimum modified.
So this means that it's possible (theoretically; I have no idea how realistically) for the tie for #4 to have been broken with the eventual #4 having a worse record versus the ultimate #6 (after tie-breaking with #7) than #5 had versus ultimate #6?
Edited by penn nation on 02-28-17 08:07 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1345
Reg: 12-08-04
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Re: Tiebreak Scenarios
02-28-17 09:04 PM - Post#224074
In response to penn nation
I did miss it because I'm not on twitter (I reserve right to change if elected president.)
I suppose I should be dismayed the powers that be can't get their act together, but that would presume I expected them to.
Maybe if they read these boards they would not be so far behind the curve.
At least I learned a new word (chachams), which I did not really have to look up to figure out. (Edit: so actually I mistakenly assumed it was not a term of respect.)
Edited by sparman on 02-28-17 09:13 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4909
Reg: 02-04-06
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02-28-17 10:52 PM - Post#224081
In response to sparman
My N+1 tournament idea is starting to look like common sense by contrast now, isn't it?
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westphillywarrior
Sophomore
Posts: 196
Age: 43
Reg: 01-08-11
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Re: Tiebreak Scenarios
02-28-17 11:18 PM - Post#224084
In response to penn nation
This has become a total joke.
To make sure we get this right we should get PricewaterhouseCooper to figure out the tiebreakers. They might even do it pro bono, I heard that one of their partners is a Cornell grad.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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03-01-17 08:46 AM - Post#224094
In response to Tiger69
In that unlikely event there will be a 2 out of 3 pie-throwing contest at Robin Harris to determine the winner of the #4 team.
This is the best idea yet. I'm totally on board.
But why limit it to 2 out of 3?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32802
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-01-17 09:31 AM - Post#224098
In response to TheLine
Or this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZOLs03vILs
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1345
Reg: 12-08-04
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03-01-17 10:30 AM - Post#224102
In response to palestra38
The lacrosse tie breaking procedures (and maybe others) actually included a coin flip, at least a year or two ago. Don't know if they have modified this.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-01-17 11:09 AM - Post#224109
In response to sparman
The basketball ones also include a coin flip. The ratings were stuffed in ahead of those to (basically) ensure that it would never get to a coin flip, because the coaches didn't want that.
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DCAJedi
Masters Student
Posts: 582
Age: 40
Loc: Somewhere.
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-01-17 11:51 AM - Post#224117
In response to mrjames
For what it's worth, I've updated the playoff scenarios post a few times. It should be clearer now than it was in previous forms.
Any questions, let me know...
| "Here will be an old abusing of God's patience, and the king's English." |
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SecS3
Junior
Posts: 246
Age: 75
Reg: 03-17-16
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03-01-17 12:10 PM - Post#224121
In response to TheLine
You don't want to waste too many pies.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8217
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-01-17 05:33 PM - Post#224166
In response to SecS3
If we can't beat Harvard, we can't beat Princeton either.
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