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Username Post: Penn @ The Palestra
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-07-11 07:19 PM - Post#99360    

Needless to say, this is anything but a formality -- anything can and probably will happen when the Ps match up. I don't expect Princeton to be deflated even after the tough loss, and I don't expect Penn to be half-hearted despite a disappointing season.


(BTW, is this game being televised anywhere? Or just through the Penn athletics website?)
cornellfan4
Masters Student
Posts 543
 03-07-11 07:20 PM - Post#99362    

espn3.com
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-07-11 07:28 PM - Post#99365    

Oh wow, I missed that! Three Ivy games in one week after none all season...I'm loving this exposure. As long as Princeton wins out, I'll actually be glad we lost on Saturday.
cornellfan4
Masters Student
Posts 543
 03-07-11 07:29 PM - Post#99366    

Wasnt Harvard @ PU on the U?
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-07-11 07:30 PM - Post#99367    

Yeah, but not on ESPN3 (i.e. nationally available). So only people with deluxe cable/satellite packages could see it.
Kit
Senior
Posts 380
 03-07-11 07:31 PM - Post#99368    

Some exporsure. It's not the same as broadcast television.

Personally, I would have preferred they won at Harvard. Leave nothing to chance.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-07-11 07:33 PM - Post#99370    

  • Kit Said:
Some exporsure. It's not the same as broadcast television.


Well, gotta start somewhere. And in this day and age, streaming is almost as good as tv proper.
puband09
Masters Student
Posts 782
 03-07-11 08:46 PM - Post#99377    

It's hard to argue that free streaming isnt better exposure for the schools than the U.
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12533
 03-08-11 01:24 AM - Post#99417    

I disagree. Unless you're gambling or have a prior interest, you're not going to find too many people just scanning espn3 looking for a game. The U is now on most cable systems and is much more likely to have someone stumble upon it looking for something to watch.
puband09
Masters Student
Posts 782
 03-08-11 11:38 AM - Post#99460    

I find the exact opposite to be true. Of myself and my dozen closest-or-so closest friends in the area, 1 of us gets The U, while almost all of us have free access to ESPN3.

There are a lot of Ivy fans who don't get to watch games on The U because they can't (myself included), but pretty much everyone that wants to will watch it on ESPN3.

Also, on a dull Saturday, I have been known to peruse ESPN3 for a random game to watch. I doubt I'm the only one.
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12533
 03-08-11 12:41 PM - Post#99477    

Fair enough. I really thought the U had made its way onto most systems by now. While I think internet tv watching is certainly on the way up, I don't think it's there yet, but I see why ESPN would be making this investment now. I'm sure the data exists out there somewhere and I'd be curious to know how they match up. However, if you add in the sports bar component, I think TV still has the upper hand.
Somebody
Freshman
Posts 95
 03-08-11 02:02 PM - Post#99485    

Just last night, I watched the VCU-Old Dominion championship game because I saw it and figured it would have a great atmosphere, which it did. However, I agree that very few "random" people will stumble across the game tonight, but I'm sure a lot of Ivy fans across the country, especially Penn, Princeton, and Harvard ones, will be watching.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3619
Mike Porter 		03-08-11 02:03 PM - Post#99486    

While ESPN3.com is great for Ivy fans like us, there is no comparison to the viewership it would get on ESPNU. It's not even close.

You're absolutely right that ESPNU isn't in every home, but neither is ESPN3. Until about a month ago I couldn't get access because my cable provider was Time Warner. They didn't have a deal with ESPN at the time that covered that access, so I had to login with my parents' Comcast information.

Yes, ESPN3 gives all the Ivy fans a way to watch, but not many random college basketball fans aren't going to be perusing ESPN3 on a Tuesday night to see what random games are available for online viewing. They will however surf their way to ESPNU on their TV, and think "hey it's championship week and I've got nothing better to do so I'll watch this for a bit."

Certainly technology is changing the ways people engage with content, but even now the TV is still the primary driver for viewership and by far the best place to grow awareness.
Tiger86
Sophomore
Posts 173
 03-08-11 03:11 PM - Post#99504    

I'm more concerned with picture quality than outlet. I've seen some (admittedly random)games on ESPN3 that were crystal clear, perfect quality but the Princeton-Harvard feed was horrendous for the entire second half over my computer and FIOS. I'd hoped to make it down to the rusty old barn tonight but will be stuck watching on ESPN3. Hope its better than Saturday. If you don't have the U, you can at least find a sports bar that does.
puband09
Masters Student
Posts 782
 03-08-11 04:00 PM - Post#99523    

I had 4 out of 5 bars for the entire broadcast Saturday. Must be your internet.
Albert08
Masters Student
Posts 574
 03-08-11 04:40 PM - Post#99527    

As one who has complained bitterly about the quality of the goprincetontigers.com video feed, I was pleasantly surprised with the ESPN3 feed on Saturday. Occasionally it was a little herky-jerky, but generally pretty smooth, and the definition was so much superior, it was laughable.
cornellfan4
Masters Student
Posts 543
 03-08-11 04:43 PM - Post#99528    

espn3 quality isnt always the best but at least it rarely freezes or just completely dies on you as some of the league's broadcasts do
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 08:21 PM - Post#99573    

Barrett earning the start -- wow. Good for him. He's playing well so far.

Missing so many layups -- against Harvard and now here. Back-to-back bunnies flubbed by Hummer & Mavraides. Superb defense, though.

Very nice baseline feed by Saunders to Hummer and then the extra pass to wide-open Mav for the 3.

Pull-up transition 3 for Davis...the shot he shoulda taken against Harvard (grumble, grumble).
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 08:22 PM - Post#99575    

Near ideal start so far. Glad to see the ball going through the hoop after last game's second half and today's start.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 08:26 PM - Post#99576    

Cartwright bringing them back. Davis needs to sit (as hard as that is to admit). He's pressing and a bit out of control, IMO.
Albert08
Masters Student
Posts 574
 03-08-11 08:28 PM - Post#99578    

Sorry, guys, but Douglas Davis has become a liability: poor defense, sloppy with the ball, not shooting well. He is great when he's on, but over the last few games, he has been a negative. Glad to see Barrett getting more confidence and playing well.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 08:30 PM - Post#99579    

Yeah, I feel like a jerk to say it, considering what he's done for the program since Day One, but I can't disagree with you.


That's also why I was pushing for more minutes for Clement. We need a pass-first playmaker with a good handle.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 08:35 PM - Post#99582    

Saunders is annoying me, too...missed layups, careless TOs. Put Darrow back in.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 08:38 PM - Post#99585    

I feel like the guys are overly amped up -- intense defense; flubbed layups. Maddox needs to take over, drive to the hoop, and show people why he's POY.
Albert08
Masters Student
Posts 574
 03-08-11 08:47 PM - Post#99587    

The Harvard game exposed this big weakness - we don't have a Curry who can dribble drive and penetrate. If we had that, the big guys would get easy buckets without having to work so hard.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 08:49 PM - Post#99590    

Ugliest half of basketball I've seen all season from Princeton. Great defense is the only reason this game is close.

It's funny both Harvard and Penn are frustrating Princeton by giving them a taste of their own (old) medicine -- intense man-to-man defense, spread-the-floor offense, precise passing for easy layups.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 08:52 PM - Post#99594    

  • Albert08 Said:
The Harvard game exposed this big weakness - we don't have a Curry who can dribble drive and penetrate. If we had that, the big guys would get easy buckets without having to work so hard.



Yup. My only "complaint" about SJ is that he may defer too much to his upperclassmen (i.e. Davis and Saunders) out of respect/appreciation. We've seen what quality underclassmen can do (Hummer, Barrett, Darrow, Bray, Connolly, Hazel, Davis himself as a freshman) and I really wanted to see what Clement or even Sherburne could do.
Tiger86
Sophomore
Posts 173
 03-08-11 08:54 PM - Post#99595    

I'm ready to vomit. Up 11 you could tell they were going to let it all go with the next two few trips up the court. Suddenly it was sloppy passing, no defense, one-on-one forced shots, shoddy defense. Two missed front ends of one-and-ones. The last play throwing away the chance at the last shot with a lazy turnover and then a foul??? We are just really lucky not to be down 6.

How many times have we seen this play before? Let's hope they've done the mandatory blowing of the 10+ point lead and can now settle down and blow Penn away in the second half.
umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts 476
umbrellaman 		03-08-11 08:55 PM - Post#99596    

All this I generally agree with. But the bottom line is that Hummer and Maddox both have 2 points each. The guard play could be better, but both these guys have to finish in double digits.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 08:57 PM - Post#99597    

We'll see what this Princeton team is made of now. To be fair, Harvard and Penn are playing us great, so it's not like I expected any kind of blowout. But sloppy passing, missed layups and FTs...they're out of control and need to settle down.

Luckily, they've been able to come back and pull away from teams all season (almost as many times as they've blown leads), so I'm excited for the second half.
Tiger86
Sophomore
Posts 173
 03-08-11 08:57 PM - Post#99598    

Penn was piling up the fouls. That could be big. I think our depth is better.
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		03-08-11 08:57 PM - Post#99599    

Don't forget that a lot of the lead was built when Penn's starters were out in favor of the senior night lineup. Things really changed for Penn when Cartwright came in - he was the best player on the court in the first half.

gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 08:58 PM - Post#99601    

  • Tiger86 Said:
Penn was piling up the fouls. That could be big. I think our depth is better.



That's a good point. They were frustrating us with intense D -- fouls being the trade off. But we missed two front-ends of one-and-ones, so we have to make them pay for that gamble. Haven't so far.


EDIT: I forgot about the senior night lineup -- happened for us against Columbia.
Tiger86
Sophomore
Posts 173
 03-08-11 08:59 PM - Post#99602    

I don't disagree.
puband09
Masters Student
Posts 782
 03-08-11 09:00 PM - Post#99603    

You guys were blaming Davis earlier, but I agree with umbrellaman. Maddox hasn't performed, Hummer hasn't performed, Davis hasn't done great. The team's offense is resting on Mavraides, and even he's underperforming. Missing long balls is one thing, but you can't blow that many lay-ups and FTs.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 09:02 PM - Post#99604    

  • puband09 Said:
You guys were blaming Davis earlier, but I agree with umbrellaman. Maddox hasn't performed, Hummer hasn't performed, Davis hasn't done great. The team's offense is resting on Mavraides, and even he's underperforming. Missing long balls is one thing, but you can't blow that many lay-ups and FTs.



Well, Maddox and Hummer have been doing it all season (don't get much help from refs either) and find other ways to contribute when not scoring. Davis and Saunders, however, are major liabilities unless they hit shots.
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		03-08-11 09:03 PM - Post#99606    

Hummer was a factor on D, at least.

Tiger86
Sophomore
Posts 173
 03-08-11 09:04 PM - Post#99607    

The slow lazy passes that get picked clean are what drive me nuts. Well at least we didn't foul anyone shooting from three in the first half.

Go Tigers!
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 09:07 PM - Post#99610    

We're playing like garbage -- missing open layups...getting killed inside with Princeton, yes, Princeton-style offense.

Wake up, Tigers!
Tiger86
Sophomore
Posts 173
 03-08-11 09:08 PM - Post#99613    

They look like they are afraid to lose.
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		03-08-11 09:08 PM - Post#99614    

Maddox tried to take it hard at Eggleston and his two fouls there, but Turley made a nice rotation to force the off-balance miss in close.

gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 09:11 PM - Post#99616    

Great timeout -- Princeton has some fire back again.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 09:12 PM - Post#99617    

Come on, let's move it along. Enough about Saturday refs. How about Tuesday refs?
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 09:13 PM - Post#99620    

MADDOX!

HUMMER!

Poor Saunders...always gets called for the foul.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 09:15 PM - Post#99621    

Well, looks we got a ballgame now.
Tiger86
Sophomore
Posts 173
 03-08-11 09:17 PM - Post#99624    

Another lazy pass for another stupid turnover.

Can we play without guards for the rest of the game?
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 09:17 PM - Post#99626    

  • Tiger86 Said:
Another lazy pass for another stupid turnover.

Can we play without guards for the rest of the game?



Maybe we *should* have had Barrett as our PG...
Tiger86
Sophomore
Posts 173
 03-08-11 09:20 PM - Post#99628    

ok. i take that back THREEEEE
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 09:21 PM - Post#99629    

Maddox and Hummer are our best passers...and best perimeter defenders.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 09:25 PM - Post#99631    

LOL, Howlett just bearhugged Ian.
Tiger86
Sophomore
Posts 173
 03-08-11 09:28 PM - Post#99632    

Looking like they have focus back. Need to get some separation.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 09:28 PM - Post#99633    

I can live with turnovers on inside feeds, but these are just careless ball-holding (not even handling, but holding).

Well, at least the defense is finally doing what it should have before -- let Penn take open mid-range jumpers. No more easy layups under the hoop.


Also, I know it's silly, but I want to see Maddox or Hummer dunk it soon.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21312
 03-08-11 09:28 PM - Post#99634    

Some of these comments make it seem like you're surprised Penn is neck and neck with your team.

Shouldn't be a surprise given the first meeting.
puband09
Masters Student
Posts 782
 03-08-11 09:29 PM - Post#99635    

Remember when Hummer's FT shooting sucked? I'm glad to see that's much improved.
puband09
Masters Student
Posts 782
 03-08-11 09:31 PM - Post#99636    

These refs love the reachin call.
Tiger86
Sophomore
Posts 173
 03-08-11 09:34 PM - Post#99637    

Patrick!!!
puband09
Masters Student
Posts 782
 03-08-11 09:37 PM - Post#99639    

Man, Turley is one uggo mf. Who keeps telling him the Amish skullbeard is a good look? You'd think the stylish Allen would talk some sense into him.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 09:37 PM - Post#99640    

  • penn nation Said:
Some of these comments make it seem like you're surprised Penn is neck and neck with your team.



It's just the WAY in which you guys are giving us trouble is surprising, not the competitiveness of the game.
mmp629
Junior
Posts 259
mmp629 		03-08-11 09:37 PM - Post#99641    

Still not breathing!
umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts 476
umbrellaman 		03-08-11 09:38 PM - Post#99642    

Not at all, Penn nation, not at all. We are two ancient warriors forever destined to be bound in battle.

Plus Vegas only had the line at 3.
Tiger86
Sophomore
Posts 173
 03-08-11 09:42 PM - Post#99644    

The shooting returns!!!
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 09:42 PM - Post#99645    

Earning your minutes, Patty Boy!


Yeah, I wasn't surprised at all that Penn is giving us trouble -- it's just the WAY they did that surprised/annoyed me.
puband09
Masters Student
Posts 782
 03-08-11 09:42 PM - Post#99646    

Wow Saunders. Welcome back!
mmp629
Junior
Posts 259
mmp629 		03-08-11 09:43 PM - Post#99648    

Finally...go tigers!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		03-08-11 09:45 PM - Post#99649    

All set up by Penn's lack of interior defense.

gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 09:47 PM - Post#99651    

Saunders STILL can't get a charge or a clean block -- refs just hate him for some reason.

He just looks too skinny, unathletic and quiet..they don't believe he can defend without hacking.
Tiger86
Sophomore
Posts 173
 03-08-11 09:53 PM - Post#99657    

Really impressive turn around by the Tigers tonight. Maddox for POY!
umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts 476
umbrellaman 		03-08-11 09:53 PM - Post#99658    

Yes, Chip, but Maddox and Hummer are Princeton's best players, and after the timeout, Princeton made a concerted effort to run every possession through one of them. All season they have demonstrated great interior passing to each other. Penn has favorable matchups in the backcourt, but Princeton has the favorable matchup up front.
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		03-08-11 09:57 PM - Post#99659    

That's my point though, Pat. They spread the floor and attacked Penn's biggest weakness with their biggest strength.

gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 09:58 PM - Post#99660    

I have a heart-attack whenever our guards handle the ball under pressure...


Come on, Dan and Doug!!


WHOA. Explosive move by Cartwright.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 10:06 PM - Post#99666    

GREAT recovery -- not only to win the game, but regain momentum into Saturday. The guys really showed character (as did SJ) firing up a slightly shell-shocked team.


Our guards inability to hold onto the rock is a HUGE liability. They need to get themselves under control and call timeouts if they're stuck. Be arrogant with your shooting, Dan and Doug -- you've earned it -- but be careful with your handle.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 10:07 PM - Post#99667    

WOOOOOO!!!!


Now. It's. On.
mmp629
Junior
Posts 259
mmp629 		03-08-11 10:08 PM - Post#99668    

Yay!!!! Feeling very choked up for the players. And Coach Johnson.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 10:17 PM - Post#99678    

Best of all, they seemed to have figured out how to stop teams from giving them a taste of their own medicine (which is what Harvard did on Saturday and Penn did for the first 22 minutes).

I reverse my position from the other thread. Even if Harvard's mid-range jumpers are falling early, we have to let them have that shot. Can't let Curry and Wright play catch underneath the basket again.
1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts 2281
1LotteryPick1969 		03-08-11 10:26 PM - Post#99685    

My feed out here in Utah was poor, so I couldn't watch. Looking at the box score, what jumps out to me is Rosen's lack of scoring. Any explanation? Who was guarding him?
Tiger86
Sophomore
Posts 173
 03-08-11 10:29 PM - Post#99687    

Great recovery tonight. Huge win. Great inside outside game in second half. Tightened up the D. Made big shots. Should be a big confidence booster.

And unlike the Harvard game for me the picture was crystal clear.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-08-11 10:36 PM - Post#99689    

  • princeton72 Said:
My feed out here in Utah was poor, so I couldn't watch. Looking at the box score, what jumps out to me is Rosen's lack of scoring. Any explanation? Who was guarding him?


Our super-forwards, Maddox and Hummer, as well as Bray were mostly responsible. Kareem and Ian's ability to drift out and defend the perimeter has been a HUGE lift all season (Maddox did this last year too, often guarding Rosen, Agho, Lin, etc.).

BTW, that's another reason Mavraides gets so many rebounds (that and he's very strong). When our bigs are defending on the perimeter, Mav is left inside (Casey/Wright exploited this a couple times on Saturday).
Tiger86
Sophomore
Posts 173
 03-08-11 10:48 PM - Post#99690    

Mav's line: 10 gutty points, 7 huge rebounds, 2 ast, 6 (ouch!) TO
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3686
 03-09-11 12:54 AM - Post#99721    

  • princeton72 Said:
My feed out here in Utah was poor, so I couldn't watch. Looking at the box score, what jumps out to me is Rosen's lack of scoring. Any explanation? Who was guarding him?



Actually, scratch my first response...poor recall and false assumptions by me.

After skimming through the replay, it was mostly Mav on Rosen in the first half, and then mostly Bray on Rosen in the second half (with Maddox on Bernardini). But it really was a team effort, as Tigers forwards helped out big time whenever Rosen attacked the paint.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4921
 03-09-11 02:31 AM - Post#99729    

My feed dropped to one bar again for the second half, but instead of getting blurry, this time it turned into a series of still photos. It was like reading a basketball comic book with audio narration.

Big recovery by the Tigers. Hummer and Maddox attack the soft underbelly of the Penn defense, Saunders sticks dagger threes when the Quakers collapse inside. And the defense picks it up when necessary and chokes off Rosen's penetration.

Twelve down and seven to go!



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