Back to Post
| Username | Post: Harvard vs. Princeton: The Final Showdown (for real this time!) | |
|---|---|---|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-08-11 10:11 PM - Post#99671
And away we go... |
|
|
cornellfan4 Masters Student Posts 543 |
03-08-11 10:15 PM - Post#99676
yeah cant wait for this game |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-08-11 10:19 PM - Post#99680
You get the feeling the Ivy League office just breathed a huge sigh of relief. What a crushing anti-climax it would have been to have Princeton not even make it to a much-hyped playoff. |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-09-11 02:36 AM - Post#99730
The postseason begins now. Survive and advance! We just need to find the right background music and tagline for the playoff. "Tigers vs. Crimson--This Time it's Personal"? Theme from Mortal Kombat? |
|
|
puband09 Masters Student Posts 782 |
03-09-11 02:42 AM - Post#99732
Maybe a Charlie Sheen "Tiger Blood" reference. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-09-11 03:01 AM - Post#99733
No NIT auto-bid for the playoff loser. I guess they're really trying to push us into a conference tourney? http://www.trentonian.com/articles/2011/03/08/s por... I remember debating this before, and I guess I was wrong. Even when the co-champ playoff losers made the NIT in 2002, it was as an at-large team. That really surprises me as Princeton had only 5 non-conf wins that year (and one was the D-3 game!). That said, Harvard would be a stone-cold lock for the NIT, and Princeton would be a virtual lock, I think. |
|
|
puband09 Masters Student Posts 782 |
03-09-11 03:42 AM - Post#99734
All splitting hairs really. Harvard will do no worse than NIT if they lose. Princeton seems likely into the NIT as well, should they lose. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-09-11 03:51 AM - Post#99735
Yeah, I'm just surprised/annoyed that a co-champ in a conference without a tournament doesn't get an NIT auto-bid. If there's a three-way tie, I can understand the NIT awarding the invite to the team it deems superior. But no auto-bids at all? Jerks. |
|
|
Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3781 |
03-09-11 11:27 AM - Post#99763
Well, being that we're the only conference without a tournament (not that there's anything wrong with that), and that ties don't happen all that often, it's probably just not something that's on their radar. All that said, if the loser of the playoff doesn't get an NIT bid it can be taken as a clear snub. Both teams deserve to see post season play. |
|
|
cornellfan4 Masters Student Posts 543 |
03-09-11 11:51 AM - Post#99772
http://espn.go.com/blog/CollegeBasketbal lNation/po... Maddox interview |
|
|
cornellfan4 Masters Student Posts 543 |
03-09-11 02:04 PM - Post#99832
playoff already sold out |
|
|
Tiger86 Sophomore Posts 173 |
03-09-11 02:27 PM - Post#99838
are you kidding me??? |
|
|
cornellfan4 Masters Student Posts 543 |
03-09-11 02:32 PM - Post#99841
http://twitter.com/mrjames2006/status/45 5418000851... nope, mrjames can clarify but he tweeted but it sold out in 30min Not sure if that means the public allocation sold out and you can still get tickets from your respective school or what but I would call PU's ticket office now if you planned on going |
|
|
Tiger86 Sophomore Posts 173 |
03-09-11 03:08 PM - Post#99854
i did. they only had 1,000 to sell and they are gone. anyone have an extra??? |
|
|
puband09 Masters Student Posts 782 |
03-09-11 04:47 PM - Post#99877
Princeton student tickets are now also sold out. |
|
|
palestra38 Professor Posts 32884 |
03-09-11 05:24 PM - Post#99892
They never should have knocked down the New Haven Colliseum. As a public service for those who wonder why they cannot get tickets for this event... www.youtube.com/watch?v=nctvL-eOzSs |
|
|
H78 PhD Student Posts 1458 
|
03-09-11 08:28 PM - Post#99946
I'd recommend this video to anyone who wants to know what an Ivy League athlete is all about. This video shows Kareem Maddox as a prototypical Ivy Student Athlete. Thoughtful, articulate, upbeat, and diplomatic with the interviewer. What a class act he is. I still am rooting for Harvard to crush Princeton on Saturday, and I can't help but respect this young man. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-09-11 09:24 PM - Post#99964
Yes, and I really hope he'll get a Portsmouth invite despite his late bloomer status. Like I've said before, it's not uncommon for an Ivy guy or two to get one, and there isn't a deep senior class this year. His offensive skills may not be pro-level yet, but unlike most low/mid-major stars, his size & athleticism are pro-caliber. With a little more seasoning (e.g. a solid mid-range jumper), Kareem could generate some interest as a versatile defender who can hold his own on offense (including passing). Maybe some time in Europe/Asia? Maybe D-League? |
|
|
Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3781 |
03-09-11 10:52 PM - Post#99984
Maddox is an exceptional athlete by Ivy standards, but I'm not sure he's got the kind of athleticism one needs to stick in the NBA. He's also a bit undersized for the type of game he plays. That said, stranger things have happened, and I'm certainly no expert. I wish him all the luck. What's more, I bet he could have a very nice career in Europe (assuming he's interested). |
|
|
Quakers03 Professor Posts 12533 |
03-09-11 11:49 PM - Post#99990
Don't you have to have some ability to make a shot outside of 6 feet to have any legitimate shot at the NBA? I respect the hell out of the guy and his athleticism is unmatched in this league, but while he's quick and can sure play defense, most NBA players are quick and can play defense, plus they can shoot. He's not going to be making moves on Jack Eggleston and Conor Turley at the next level. Now maybe you guys have seen some sort of shooting ability and he has no need to put it on display in the Ivy league, but outside of a nice free throw stroke, can he shoot at all? Looking at his stats he seemed to shoot the ball a lot more a few years ago, so what gives? He could have taken open 12 footers all day yesterday if he wanted. Could he have made them? |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-10-11 12:10 AM - Post#99992
Well, that's why I said "pro" not "NBA." And no, most NBA players can't play defense. Apparently, Kareem does hit a lot of outside shots (even 3s) in practice, but it's not what Princeton needs from him, so it remains unused and rusty. Then again, he did hit that game-winning mid-range jumper against Cornell, so it might just be a confidence thing. I wouldn't be surprised to see it become a reliable shot with a year or two overseas or in D-League. Anyway, my point is that whenever you have a top Ivy League player (or mid-major stars in general), the usual and correct summary of their pro prospects is: "Nice stats, nice skills, but just not big or athletic enough. Maybe Europe." But Maddox is the rare guy who actually has the build and athleticism of a professional SF. (But enough thread hijacking by me! This is a discussion for another time and thread...) |
|
|
puband09 Masters Student Posts 782 |
03-11-11 10:47 PM - Post#100300
Some fun trash-talk fodder: YouTube channel for Keith Wright's hip-hop alter ego KDub http://www.youtube.com/user/theeKDub |
|
|
H78 PhD Student Posts 1458
|
03-12-11 01:13 AM - Post#100317
Some fun trash-talk fodder: YouTube channel for Keith Wright's hip-hop alter ego KDub http://www.youtube.com/user/theeKDub It's not my kind of music, so I played it for my 19 year-old son who gets straight A's. He thinks this music is "tight", which I'm guessing is good (or baaad, as we used to say). My parents used to yell at me to turn down "Suite Judy: Blue Eyes", and this past week I heard it playing in the CVS on their store music channel. Generational? Go figure. Or as Laurent Rivard might say, à chacun son goût. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 04:55 PM - Post#100361
Well, we're about to be under way! Holy crap, I'm excited. Here's to Princeton winning the playoff and Harvard snagging a surprise at-large (their RPI would still be upper-30s even with a loss, says LiveRPI). |
|
|
puband09 Masters Student Posts 782 |
03-12-11 05:27 PM - Post#100365
Princeton D looks good today. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 05:51 PM - Post#100369
Harvard leads 32-25. Generally happy with the team's performance despite the score. A couple horrible turnovers due to poor communication and some questionable non-calls inside at the end of the half. The punchline? One of the refs is Earl Walton...who officiated that atrocious Rutgers-St. John's debacle. He did make sure the final .7 seconds were played out, though... On the bright side, Connolly is giving us some great minutes. |
|
|
umbrellaman Masters Student Posts 476 
|
03-12-11 05:57 PM - Post#100371
Not looking good. Princeton has to make the adjustment, with Maddox being covered by one of the smaller players. They're using one of the bigs to double, and leaving the other on Hummer and disrupting the interior passing. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 06:04 PM - Post#100373
The Penn game may have been good preparation for today, though -- we know they're capable of "snapping out of it." The defense is greatly improved and it's not like there's a lid on the rim like last time. We just need to get some proper calls when Maddox is hacked or make a couple 3s to keep Harvard from packing the paint. |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-12-11 06:08 PM - Post#100374
Still too much Curry penetration. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 06:09 PM - Post#100375
Forget that improved defense thing. Suddenly it's layup drills for Harvard. Get Hummer back in there! |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 06:12 PM - Post#100376
Princeton with a little energy now -- Maddox finally gets a call after being mugged all game and then a one-on-one block on Wright. |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-12-11 06:13 PM - Post#100377
Will showing some speed and shooting ability. Too bad about the fouls. At least Casey is getting his usual brace of vales against as well. |
|
|
Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001 
|
03-12-11 06:17 PM - Post#100379
52% shooting at the half for Harvard does not bespeak good defense by PU. Sydney vociferous about the officiating in the interview going to the locker room. |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-12-11 06:23 PM - Post#100380
Harvard getting a bit flustered going into TV timeout. Offensive charge drawn by Bray upset them. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 06:23 PM - Post#100381
At least we got ourselves a ballgame again. And the calls are evening out now. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 06:25 PM - Post#100382
DD...you gotta hit that for us. |
|
|
Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
|
03-12-11 06:30 PM - Post#100383
Davis is killing Princeton with his poor play. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 06:30 PM - Post#100384
Whenever we're about to tie or get within a basket...DD misses an open jumper and Harvard answers. Now Mav misses a wide-open 3...our guards have really been exposed. |
|
|
Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
|
03-12-11 06:32 PM - Post#100385
When Davis doesn't have an open shot, he's forcing bad ones. You can live with misses if they're good shots, but his decision-making has been awful. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 06:33 PM - Post#100386
Davis is killing Princeton with his poor play. It's sad, but true. I really hate to say it because he's been filling it up since Day One, but he's a 5-11 SG, so he needs to hit his open jumpers. Otherwise, he becomes a major liability. |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-12-11 06:34 PM - Post#100387
Connolly looking good. They need his height inside. Darrow's been pretty good too--he looks like a classic Princeton high-post center with the ball. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 06:35 PM - Post#100388
Maddox playing fire...Wright with his 4th! Don't go anywhere yet. |
|
|
puband09 Masters Student Posts 782 |
03-12-11 06:35 PM - Post#100389
Let's get Wright and Casey on the bench |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 06:37 PM - Post#100390
Now we have to keep pounding it inside to Hummer and Maddox (and Connolly). I don't care if we have a wide-open 3...that should be a last resort. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 06:38 PM - Post#100391
FINALLY DD!!! |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 06:39 PM - Post#100392
DAVIS PLAYING POSSUM??? SHUT ME UP DOUG. SHUT ME UP. |
|
|
Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
|
03-12-11 06:40 PM - Post#100393
I guess you guys need me to criticize Davis more. Amazing what a difference it makes when you get Wright out of the game. |
|
|
puband09 Masters Student Posts 782 |
03-12-11 06:40 PM - Post#100394
Care to revise your comments on Davis? |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-12-11 06:40 PM - Post#100395
Go kinsmen: "no, no, no...yes!" |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 06:41 PM - Post#100396
Amazing what a difference it makes when you get Wright out of the game. Definitely. Not a coincidence. Harvard even missing some FTs for once... |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 06:46 PM - Post#100398
This is an INSANE game. What an effort by both teams. |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-12-11 06:46 PM - Post#100399
Bodies flying around now. Kareem is ridiculous. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 06:48 PM - Post#100401
I really thought that second-chance 3 by Doug was going down...he's giving me seizures. DD's 5 point spurt notwithstanding, it's time to pound it inside to Maddox -- now that both Casey and Wright both have 4 fouls. |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-12-11 06:50 PM - Post#100403
Mr. James will be sure to note our uncanny free-throw line defense. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 06:55 PM - Post#100405
OH GOD. I can't take this. |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-12-11 06:56 PM - Post#100406
2.8 seconds. No sweat. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 06:57 PM - Post#100407
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH DAAAVIIIIIIISSSS |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-12-11 06:57 PM - Post#100408
Davis! |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-12-11 06:58 PM - Post#100409
Now that ref goes to the monitor. Rutgers didn't get that courtesy. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 06:59 PM - Post#100410
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I BOW TO YOU DOUGLAS DAVIS. I AM GARBAGE YOU ARE KING. APOLOGIES 4EVA. |
|
|
puband09 Masters Student Posts 782 |
03-12-11 06:59 PM - Post#100412
PRINCETON WINS! PRINCETON WINS! PRINCETON WINS! |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 07:00 PM - Post#100413
A $%#-ING BUZZER BEATER HOLY CRAPOLA |
|
|
1LotteryPick1969 Postdoc Posts 2280 
|
03-12-11 07:02 PM - Post#100418
I am SO HAPPY for Douglas! He has had an up and down year, but he has this shot for the REST OF HIS LIFE! |
|
|
Jay O Masters Student Posts 547 |
03-12-11 07:02 PM - Post#100419
What an amazing game! Here's to both making the tournament... |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 07:03 PM - Post#100420
It's funny -- in the end, it was Princeton who won the game with an athletic individual play and FT shooting. |
|
|
mmp629 Junior Posts 259 
|
03-12-11 07:03 PM - Post#100421
Love that sentiment!! Tigers going dancing!!! |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-12-11 07:03 PM - Post#100422
Good time to storm the court. Un-f-ingbelievable |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 07:04 PM - Post#100425
That was the greatest Ivy game I've ever seen...considering the stakes, talent-level, and late-game playmaking by both sqauds. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 07:05 PM - Post#100426
CONGRATS to the whole team and staff, but special congrats to Dan, Kareem, and Bobby who stuck out a truly nightmarish start to their college careers and finally get to bask in the glow of victory. And in style, to boot! |
|
|
mmp629 Junior Posts 259
|
03-12-11 07:06 PM - Post#100427
Yeah!! |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 07:07 PM - Post#100429
HEY ESPN, HOW'S THAT FOR B-BALL ACTION??? That game was worthy of prime-time. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 07:08 PM - Post#100431
Harvard-Princeton officially became a legit capital-R Rivalry tonight. |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-12-11 07:08 PM - Post#100432
All those OT games and squeakers early in the season really paid off here. I'm so happy for the team and for Syd. |
|
|
H78 PhD Student Posts 1458
|
03-12-11 07:09 PM - Post#100433
Arrrgh! But congratulations to Princeton, and I hope you guys get a good seed and go deep into the NCAA tournament. |
|
|
mmp629 Junior Posts 259
|
03-12-11 07:10 PM - Post#100435
Call me crazy(because of the couple of second delay) but I listen to WPRB while watching espn. I just love Saydak and Savage so much, and wow, were they excited at the end! |
|
|
Stuart Suss PhD Student Posts 1439 |
03-12-11 07:11 PM - Post#100438
Congratulations on the victory. Does anybody wish to acknowledge that Dan Mavraides and Kareem Maddox were recruited by Joe Scott? |
|
|
Tiger69 Postdoc Posts 2818 |
03-12-11 07:12 PM - Post#100439
No. you are not garbage --- Chip is! |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 07:12 PM - Post#100440
Congratulations on the victory. Does anybody wish to acknowledge that Dan Mavraides and Kareem Maddox were recruited by Joe Scott? Blind squirrel (grumble, grumble)... |
|
|
mmp629 Junior Posts 259
|
03-12-11 07:13 PM - Post#100441
No. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 07:17 PM - Post#100445
All those OT games and squeakers early in the season really paid off here. I'm so happy for the team and for Syd. That's a very good point. I'm gonna get ey-rolled for this, but this was almost a Butler-like win -- mistakes made...lack of athleticism exposed...teeth gritted...defense steps up...just enough buckets made...victory over a "more talented" team. Harvard's RPI is still 35. Again, it's ludicrous they're not in the at-large discussion. We don't even need to get into nitty-gritty quirks of mid-major/Ivy-specific issues -- their resume speaks for itself. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 07:19 PM - Post#100447
No. you are not garbage --- Chip is! Well, to be fair to myself, one could say that if Davis hadn't struggled so mightily before (including the Brown loss or the last Harvard game), we wouldn't have needed his buzzer-beating heroics... Okay, now I'm acting like garbage. He showed incredible guts to hit that shot and not get down on himself after a rough start today. Nothing can ruin this moment for the guys or for us! |
|
|
puband09 Masters Student Posts 782 |
03-12-11 07:23 PM - Post#100450
I don't think anyone ever criticized Joe Scott for his recruiting abilities. Lincoln Gunn and Marcus Schroeder were great catches as well. Scott's issue was the offensive strategy and in-game situational coaching. |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-12-11 07:28 PM - Post#100452
Scott's not over the hump at Denver, but he has a promising young team. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 07:29 PM - Post#100453
Let's not spoil this moment with talk of Joe &@#$-ing Scott. I can't wait to watch the replay of this game tomorrow...another advantage of ESPN3. |
|
|
besnoah Masters Student Posts 803 |
03-12-11 07:30 PM - Post#100454
Watch for the section when they're talking about Princeton's Ivy playoff in 1996. There is a great shot of Princeton Assistant Joe Scott celebrating. |
|
|
puband09 Masters Student Posts 782 |
03-12-11 07:33 PM - Post#100456
Johnson mentioned how the team really didn't play that great today, and I agree. They played just barely good enough (barely, as in .3 seconds). My concern is the offense in these Harvard games has relied entirely on Maddox and Hummer driving to the net. When given the opportunity, Davis, Mavraides, Saunders, and even Bray and Darrow, can produce from outside and from 3, but none of Princeton's plays are set up to create those opportunities. I feel like they will get CRUSHED next week with this 1-dimensional offense, but they could really flummox a 'major' team with some more variety. |
|
|
puband09 Masters Student Posts 782 |
03-12-11 07:35 PM - Post#100460
Also, Davis' jumper was great recent-Princeton-athletic -history karmic retribution for this little .8-second debacle 2 years ago: Most of you probably haven't seen this, so I highly recommend a viewing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgveHcea0kc#t =3m3s |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-12-11 07:37 PM - Post#100461
puband09: I agree. I'd like to see more spacing and more off the ball movement. On the other hand, I think they are learning to adapt to the match ups available, so we may see more spacing against bigger, stronger, better-jumping teams. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 07:39 PM - Post#100462
Yes, there wasn't a lot of movement on offense (the ESPN commentators mentioned this as well). I think our snipers are a little gun shy from deep and it's easy to over-rely on Maddox and Hummer since the former can make highlight-reel bank-shots and the latter is sinking his FTs of late. Also, I think our guards are gun-shy/cold from deep because they're getting winded by bigger, more athletic guards. The rapid development of Bray, Hazel, Clement, Wilson, etc. will be priority #1 in the coming years, IMO. |
|
|
sparman PhD Student Posts 1348 
|
03-12-11 07:42 PM - Post#100465
It would be very nice to see Harvard get in. After Cornell lat year, it would continue to make a statement about Ivy play - assuming neither they nor PU get completely rolled by whatever unjustifiable seed the NCAA assigns in its never-ending effort to protect BCS schools hegemony. |
|
|
Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
|
03-12-11 07:54 PM - Post#100471
Thought Davis had killed them again when he made the ill-advised one-on-two drive at Wright and Casey on the next to last possession. Sure redeemed himself in the end, though! |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 07:59 PM - Post#100472
I'm watching that last shot again on the ESPN highlight clip...oh man. That last shot was really a total prayer. A Doug Flutie Hail Mary. And Davis swished it anyway. Redemption, indeed! The highlight also shows SJ putting his head down to hug Brian Earl, and when he comes back up, there's tears flooding his eyes...it's as emotional as sports can be. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 08:14 PM - Post#100476
How about another round of applause for Brendan Connolly? He sees his role reduced over the Ivy season, didn't even see action against Penn, and he comes up with a perfect shooting day (3-3 FG, 3-3 FT) in the most tense of situations, while playing solid D inside. |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-12-11 08:33 PM - Post#100485
I'm a big Connolly fan. Gutsy performance tonight, and I thought he did an excel,net job noshing up Mangano in New Haven...hmmm, maybe we should try to get a tourney game at Yale. |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-12-11 08:34 PM - Post#100486
Bodying up, not noshing up. Blasted auto-correct. |
|
|
umbrellaman Masters Student Posts 476
|
03-12-11 08:56 PM - Post#100494
If you want to bring up Joe Scott, then it's in the context of the quick turnaround that Sydney Johnson accomplished, from the depths of a 2-12 season. It's worth noting what Johnson did differently. With regards to Maddox, Johnson should credit for Maddox's development as a player - but more importantly, that Johnson adjusted the offense and defense to take advantage of his skills. I'm not sure Maddox would have been near the same player in the traditional Princeton offense and matchup zone that Scott employed. Some of the key fouls today on Casey and Wright, were in transition or semi-transition, where Harvard couldn't get their defense set up. The other thing that Johnson does that really helped him today was opening up the rotation. Carril and all of his successors seemed to stick with short rotation of 7 or 8 guys. Joe Scott would start someone every game, then the player would disappear from the rotation. Johnson got meaningful minutes from Barrett, Connolly, Darrow, Bray and Hazel, and some of those guys were key to the last two winds. So I am not here to bury Coach Scott - he's landed on his feet with decent job and he's part of the Princeton family. He's part of an amazing tableau which I hope the Tournament coverage will highlight. In Carril's final year, in that win over UCLA, all three of his assistants are Division I head coaches, Carmody, Scott, and Thompson. More remarkably, the starting backcourt of Johnson, Earl and Henderson are also Division I coaches, Earl and Henderson being assistants. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-12-11 09:28 PM - Post#100498
I still can't believe what I just saw. A honest-to-god buzzer beater to punch our Dance card. What an amazing way to cap a program comeback. |
|
|
Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
|
03-13-11 01:12 AM - Post#100535
Keep seeing the replay on ESPN. It was McNally who let Davis get the wide open look at the basket there, which I found amusing because he was doing the Duke floor slap on defense in the final minutes, and berating his teammates in the huddles at every timeout. Then after doing all that, he gets undressed on a simple fake, and ends up trying the failed desperation fly-by to distract the shooter, because he didn't play sound fundamental D on the play. |
|
|
cornellfan4 Masters Student Posts 543 |
03-13-11 01:34 AM - Post#100536
Mcnally said afterward "I was undisciplined. I jumped when I shouldn't have." That what he gets for doing the Puke floor slap, I took a double take when he did that, who does that? |
|
|
puband09 Masters Student Posts 782 |
03-13-11 04:02 AM - Post#100543
I was out at a club in West L.A. tonight wearing my orange Princeton lacrosse jersey, and this random guy was like "Dude, awesome win today. F*** Harvard." I shook his hand. Anecdotal awesomeness aside, it does speak volumes about how far we've come when people all the way over here are reasonably excited about the win. It helps when the club has ESPNews on, which is playing "The Shot" on repeat. |
|
|
Tiger69 Postdoc Posts 2818 |
03-13-11 07:55 AM - Post#100552
For all the finger-pointing (foul shooting, McNally's miss, etc.), the real reason that Harvard lost out has been building all year. Look at the PT -- 5 players with > 30 minutes on the floor, two stars with 4 fouls, and a bunch of potential sitting on the bench. Tommy Amaker has succeeded in loading up Harvard with very talented athletes and then DOESN'T USE THEM!!!!! I feel some (not a lot) sympathy for those guys in the ugly dark jerseys who really had us down for most of the second half, but no sympathy for Amaker. He's a crappy coach when it comes to getting the best from ALL his players. Contrast Sydney who had 8 players with double digit minutes last night and you can understand why every one of those Princeton players looked so happy at the end of the game. Thank you, Coach Johnson. You are a CLASS ACT. |
|
|
1LotteryPick1969 Postdoc Posts 2280
|
03-13-11 10:43 AM - Post#100565
There was only on play that really disappointed me: with 2 or 3 minutes left, McNalley drove the right baseline and missed a layup. Wright got the tip-in. If you watch the replay, you will see that Barrett was in position in front of the rim, but did not block out. He stood straight up with knees locked, and Wright gently nudged him all the way under the basket and almost to the baseline, the absolute worst spot on the floor after a missed shot. Barrett overall had an excellent game other than this play. It was a pleasure to watch Connelly play so well. He looked VERY comfortable around the hoop on offense and defense. If we are to beat Harvard next year, Connelly on Wright is our best chance. Bray looked good, and Darrow managed to drape himself all over Wright when he was on the floor. |
|
|
Albert08 Masters Student Posts 574 |
03-13-11 01:35 PM - Post#100592
It was turnabout. Late in the second half, Davis let McNally go baseline for a layup. Terrible D but DD, but he got his revenge. |
|
|
Colorado Tiger Sophomore Posts 182 |
03-13-11 02:33 PM - Post#100598
Pretty sure DD was expecting help defense on the low block which never came on that particular play (I believe both Maddox and Barret were sliding up the paint with their players). While I was taught to never allow a player to beat you on the baseline, it seems that SJ's defensive principles allow this to some degree as you will often see a player go baseline only to be stopped, and at times, trapped, on the baseline by help defense in front of him on the block and his original defender on his courtside hip. Of course, I could be completely wrong about this. |
|
|
Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
|
03-13-11 05:24 PM - Post#100623
I thought Princeton's D on the final Harvard possession was nearly as bad as what McNally did on the Davis shot. Curry got into the lane, nearly lost the ball on his own, then got a shot up that was barely contested by the three PU players surrounding him - one of the bigs took a half-hearted swipe from behind; the two defenders to his front/ left side didn't even get their arms up. |
|
|
Colorado Tiger Sophomore Posts 182 |
03-13-11 06:00 PM - Post#100628
Chip, No question there was a defensive breakdown on Harvard's last possession. Unfortunately for the Crimson, they scored too soon. Maybe it was our plan to give up a qcuik two so that the game would end one way or the other with the ball in our hands. :-) |
|
|
1LotteryPick1969 Postdoc Posts 2280
|
03-13-11 06:16 PM - Post#100634
While I was taught to never allow a player to beat you on the baseline. About a week ago, Jon Solomon posted a video clip of Craig Robinson discussing the 1-3-1 zone (I realize we were playing man during the play in question). Robinson said to attack the shooting side of the wing player, and give up baseline if it is the "off" hand. Perhaps by extrapolation this is what happened. I do not know if McNally is a lefty, nor do I recall the play so I don't know which way he went. |
|
|
Colorado Tiger Sophomore Posts 182 |
03-13-11 06:21 PM - Post#100637
Thanks for the anecdote. Makes sense. |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4919 |
03-14-11 01:46 AM - Post#100846
I think Dean Smith was the first guy to make a point of trapping on the baseline routinely, even in man-to-man, instead of cutting off baseline penetration. A lot of NBA teams do it, too. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-14-11 02:30 AM - Post#100851
So many great things about this sideline vid that's been posted on Solomon's blog and the official website: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpTQzkcAZb8 My favorite you-can't-see-this-on-tv moments: - SJ calmly, silently drawing up a play while Brian Earl emphatically implores him about some detail. - Curry yelling "Hey! Heeey!" in front of Mavraides to provide an auditory distraction on the in-bounds. |
|
|
1LotteryPick1969 Postdoc Posts 2280
|
03-14-11 07:23 AM - Post#100858
- SJ calmly, silently drawing up a play while Brian Earl emphatically implores him about some detail. - Curry yelling "Hey! Heeey!" in front of Mavraides to provide an auditory distraction on the in-bounds. Thanks for pointing out the Brian Earl activity. I would love to know what point he was making. The Curry yelling surprised me. Is that common at D1 level? Happens all the time during street ball. |
|
|
Brian Martin Masters Student Posts 963 
|
03-14-11 11:00 AM - Post#100896
Rewatched the end of the game on ESPN3. Check out the shots of the coaches when Davis is shooting free throws with 2:22 to go. Amaker is shown sitting on the bench, not looking at the players on the court. At the time, I thought his expression and body language were strange for the situation, as if he is waiting for his fate to be revealed. Johnson puts in Connolly for Barrett and is shown coaching up T.J. Bray, who is set to go in for Davis in a defense/offense switch. It appears that he is emphasizing, "don't foul." Princeton forced a turnover after 30 seconds in the next possession then called timeout to put Davis and Barrett back in. Although Princeton did not score on the next possession and the two teams traded the lead after that, I think that turnover possession was an important stop. It was the only stop for Princeton in the last 5 minutes of the game. Fortunately, Harvard missed 3 of their 6 free throws during that stretch. Also, the final shot is a very interesting call by Johnson. Maddox and Hummer are on the side of the ball so Harvard has to watch for one to set a screen for the other for a quick pass or lob on the block or in the paint. That held the Harvard bigs on that side of the court and made it easy for Davis to come off a little screen to get open on the crosscourt baseline where he was isolated one on one. The more traditional in-bound play to a jump shooter would be to set a screen for the shooter to flash to the corner on the side of the ball for a shorter in-bound pass and a catch and shoot jumper. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-14-11 02:07 PM - Post#100963
@princeton72 The Yahoo/Rivals blog write-up says:
Johnson opted not to call a timeout, but did do so after Davis's initial attempt at the game-winner was swatted out of bounds with 2.8 seconds left. The play they drew up was a meshing of ideas from both Johnson and assistant Brian Earl, ultimately getting Davis the ball in the left corner after popping out from the block, hopefully allowing him to go to work one-on-one. Of course the play looks a lot better since the shot went in, but SJ and BE have earned 100% confidence from me with regard to their tactical skills. All those close-and-late wins, maximizing the talent/athleticism they have...second to none. BTW, it's things like this that convince me Earl is the "lead" assistant to SJ no matter what Newsom's title is.
Amaker is shown sitting on the bench, not looking at the players on the court. At the time, I thought his expression and body language were strange for the situation, as if he is waiting for his fate to be revealed. Caught my eye as well -- e.g. "How did it get to this?" Not in an angry way either, but rather strangely defeatist considering the up-for-grabs situation. |
|
|
Old Bear Postdoc Posts 4006 |
03-14-11 03:29 PM - Post#100987
I don't know why Amaker didn't zone on the inbound play with 2.8 left. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-14-11 04:17 PM - Post#101008
Harvard has the athleticism advantage -- you gotta go straight-up man-to-man, there. And it's not like Davis got an easy look even with McNally falling for the fake. |
|
|
Brian Martin Masters Student Posts 963
|
03-14-11 06:14 PM - Post#101039
Actually, it is practically an old school commandment to play zone when a team is inbounding under its basket because it is just too easy to set a screen or two and get open enough to get a pass for a layup. That is why I was expecting something like Maddox setting a screen at the elbow for Hummer to cut to the left side of the basket and then Maddox rolling to right block. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-14-11 08:15 PM - Post#101057
Oh, didn't know that. I still think it was the right call in this specific case, though. Not only because of Harvard's speed advantage, but I haven't seen Princeton try (or succeed) at many in-bounds plays this season and this was not the time to experiment. At JMU, Princeton didn't even get a shot off while trying to run a final-seconds play. Better just to get a shot off at all...give yourself a chance. |
|
|
gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3683 |
03-16-11 08:09 PM - Post#101384
http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=69...
...and it just seemed in that play we looked at option A, it wasn't there, and Doug was option B, and we're fine with that. So it worked out nicely, and maybe there's a little bit more of that to come, we'll see. Looking at the replay, Option A was probably a Hummer cutting to the hoop off a Maddox screen (or off a Davis feed once it was inbounded). But Casey wisely switched and stayed home in the paint to prevent a Hummer layup. Hence, it ended up being Davis vs. McNally for the final shot. |
|
|
 |
|
| Copyright © 2004-2012 Basketball U. Terms of Use for our Site and Privacy Policy are applicable to you. All rights reserved. Basketball U. and its subsidiaries are not affiliated in any way with any NCAA athletic conference or member institution. |
|