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Friar72
Pre-Frosh
Posts 3
03-03-16 08:20 AM - Post#203195    

Apparently a high school junior from the Washington DC area visited last weekend. He allegedly is also being recruited by both Georgetown and Maryland. Does anyone know who he is? I also was told he won't commit until after the AAU season.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
03-03-16 08:02 PM - Post#203267    

Probably

http://247sports.com/Player/Eddie-Scott-82 251
Friar72
Pre-Frosh
Posts 3
03-04-16 10:46 AM - Post#203325    

I have been advised that he is Jelani Williams, a 6' 4" combo guard from Sidwell Friends, the alma mater of Jamal Lewis. From a you tube tape, he seems to be rather thin with long arms. He has a sweet stroke.
mbaprof
Senior
Posts 342
03-04-16 11:37 AM - Post#203329    

Maxpreps has him as a 2* with interest from usual suspects, no mention of Maryland or GT which is why he probably wants to wait until after AAU season
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
03-04-16 01:47 PM - Post#203338    

Makes sense.

I did catch a bit of Ray Jerome's game. He actually is Cheshire Academy's primary ball handler. I was thinking he was strictly a shooting guard type. He might be a player.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 847
03-04-16 04:45 PM - Post#203357    

Verbal Commits also lists Eddie Scott, a 6'5 forward from DC Gonzaga as having Penn recruiting interest. 2.5 stars but no mention of Georgetown or Maryland interest.
13otto
Masters Student
Posts 779
13otto
03-04-16 06:41 PM - Post#203369    

There appeared to be more than one recruit at the Palestra during last Friday night's Cornell game.
http://www.letsgoquakers.com/

20Penn14
Senior
Posts 364
03-05-16 11:31 PM - Post#203562    

Princeton, Cornell, UPenn, Illinois State are the most recent showing interest in 2017 • Ryan Rocuant • 6'10 Center • @Rocuant55
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
03-08-16 12:01 PM - Post#203757    

I don't know where LeRoy, IL is (I think it's maybe near DeKalb or Rockford or possibly even closer to Galena) and this is one of the oddest lists of offers I've ever seen.

http://verbalcommits.com/players/matt-chastain
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
03-08-16 12:18 PM - Post#203759    

I am completely over late offers who Scout Twitter refers to like "Penn just got an under-the-radar steal".

They never ever turn out well, they are complete wastes of time and show that the coach of our program is trying to shine up a turd. They are utterly pointless and I hate them and I'm completely done getting fooled by these types of recruits.






That said this guy looks like a late bloomer and I'm intrigued.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/high-school/ba ske...
coins
Sophomore
Posts 195
03-08-16 12:27 PM - Post#203761    

If Krystowiak wants him, I want him in a Penn uniform.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
03-08-16 01:00 PM - Post#203767    

Leroy is a small town located between Champaign and Peoria. This school is not playing at a very high level of bb in Illinois because of its size; HOWEVER, this young man can definitely stick it. Best guess is he's gotten noticed as a result of his team doing well at states.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
03-08-16 01:45 PM - Post#203771    

See I wasn't even in the right part of the state.

1A is a very, very low level of basketball. I doubt it produces more than a few Division I recruits a year. He does have AAU experience, though. With the sort of attention he's getting lately there's got to be something to him.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
03-08-16 04:42 PM - Post#203781    

The team they are going up against tonight, Newark, is a perennial powerhouse squad at the 1A level.

They beat one of the Chicago Jewish high schools a couple of years ago--a round away from the Illinois High School Association having to change the starting date and times from a Final Four contest in Champaign due to the Sabbath. Newark actually won the 1A state title a few years ago.

In truth, the way Illinois does it these divisions are more competitive than in most other states since they include all public, private and parochial schools within the same class size. When you get to the supersectional rounds, they are all good squads no matter if it's 1A, 3A, 5A or whatever.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
03-08-16 05:19 PM - Post#203786    

  • penn nation Said:
When you get to the supersectional rounds, they are all good squads no matter if it's 1A, 3A, 5A or whatever.



Look, I hope the kid chooses to come to Penn but you simply cannot compare the competition level at 1A and 4A. You just can't.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
03-08-16 05:50 PM - Post#203791    

Overall, no question. There's no question that this kid is not facing good competition on a regular basis. But when you get to the top teams, I think it's a bit of a different story.

That's why tonight should be very interesting. Newark I have no doubt would compare favorably against the vast majority of 2A and 3A teams, and probably a bunch of 4A schools as well.
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
03-08-16 06:25 PM - Post#203792    


I like the elevation on his jumper. It's a good starting point and difficult to teach/change at this point in a kid's development.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
03-08-16 07:23 PM - Post#203800    

Agreed and he clearly is more than a standstill shooter independent of the level of competition. He shoots off the dribble almost as well as Anna Ross

quakes up 6 at the half
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
03-08-16 11:16 PM - Post#203851    

Well, he's now officially legit as LeRoy beat Newark 58-50 tonight.

Chastain scored 34 (14 for 17), including 4 for 6 from three point land, and added 12 rebounds.

Newark was 28-2 heading into this contest.
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12480
03-08-16 11:18 PM - Post#203852    

Probably doesn't help us for him to keep blowing up...
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
03-09-16 12:07 PM - Post#203915    

More on Chastain/small schools:

http://suntimeshighschool sports.com/2016/03/05/hen...
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
03-10-16 12:18 AM - Post#204050    

He definitely looks like a late bloomer who is worth a flier on and pretty amazing how his recruiting has blown up in the span of days.

Looking at his highlight reel what you really have to like is his athleticism and size in addition to his scoring ability. Looks like a very good fit for what we want to do.

Unfortunately besides the quick mention of the offer, I haven't seen us mentioned at all... Any word on where we really are in the mix?
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
03-10-16 02:14 AM - Post#204056    

His film reminds me of Marin Kukoc. Who we got to see very little of.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
03-13-16 10:00 PM - Post#204379    

One '17 I haven't seen mentioned here is Nate Reuvers who visited (unofficially, I think) last August and was offered at that time. Looks like he has seen a recruitment spike. He was offered by Minnesota this week.

2017's class is setting up to be really interesting. As everyone some of us remember, Penn bulk offered 3 NMH kids last year: Kellan Grady, Andrew Platek, and Jerome Desrosiers.

Grady now has a top 4 of Davidson, Butler, Nova, and Northwestern. Platek has offers from Miami, Penn State, Davidson, Rutgers and has rumored interest from Butler, Wisconsin, and UNC (who knows?). Desrosiers has a much more conventional offer list, but it appears Harvard will be at the top of it.

Where does this leave Penn? I have no idea. Part of the appeal of Donahue and his staff was the reopening of the NMH pipeline, but if all of the best kids from that program go elsewhere, can Penn compete for an Ivy title? I'm sure this won't be surprising from me given my predisposition to it, but I am really worried that the recruiting remains stuck in neutral.

This inability to move the needle is particularly disturbing given Yale's recent success on the trail. Penn is now arguably recruiting behind all Ivy schools except Brown and Cornell for the second or third consecutive year. It's hard to return to the top that way.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 847
03-14-16 09:38 AM - Post#204403    

? Certainly Harvard & probably Yale have more highly touted classes. Ours looks equal to Dartmouth's and above Princeton's unless Gadson is better than Brodeur. And better than Columbia, Cornell & Brown. We want better, but it isn't a bad first year for Donahue.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
03-14-16 10:38 AM - Post#204406    

Agreed. It will take some time to build the pipeline of recruiting. You don't go through a number of years of sub par talent and then rise to the top all of a sudden. Brodeur is a nice piece and a good start. We have a talented group of current frosh and a real chance to finish in the top half of the league next year. That will help
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
03-14-16 11:14 AM - Post#204411    

Arguments about 2016's class quality class would be more compelling if Penn's class was incredibly differentiated from other (non-Harvard) Ivy classes, it isn't. Like Princeton, Columbia, Dartmouth, it contains one recruit who is clearly the the prize of the class and several fine, Ivy prospects. In addition, the trailing classes for C, Y, Pr, D, H are much stronger than Penn's.

It does typically take time to build the pipeline of recruiting and that's a fine excuse. But Penn decided to retain their top 2 assistants from the previous era. How much new legwork still needs to be done there? Where is the necessary change going to occur to improve that pipeline? Is it just the head coach?
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
03-14-16 11:31 AM - Post#204413    

Who is the prize of Columbia's class? They look significantly behind Penn to me, mainly because of the presence of Brodeur in Penn's class.


besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
03-14-16 11:35 AM - Post#204415    

I had KJ Smith as committed, he apparently has not yet and I guess could conceivably go to a non-Columbia school.
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 6997
Chip Bayers
03-14-16 12:23 PM - Post#204422    

Especially if Kyle Smith gets one of the open WCC jobs.

besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
03-14-16 12:35 PM - Post#204423    

If Columbia's recruiting class is going to be the sticking point of the argument here, I am happy to cede. Penn outrecruited Columbia, Brown, and Cornell this year, awesome.

The team recruited at about the same level at which they had recruited over the last decade, 2017 looks like they're positioned to recruit at that level again. I think that's bad.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
03-14-16 02:37 PM - Post#204439    

What is your data to suggest Penn recruited behind the non-Harvard's in trailing years? That's a subjective argument that's difficult to prove right now.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
03-14-16 02:59 PM - Post#204443    

If I were being glib, I'd suggest my proprietary metric called "order of finish in the Ivy League." To be slightly more polite, mrjames can give better insight into that since I believe he's built a large recruiting database.

To the anecdotal, Dartmouth has won consecutive Ivy ROYs despite having a similar number of minutes to give to freshmen, Penn lost recent head-to-head battles against both Yale and Princeton (Dallier and Stephens) and all three of those schools have had more significant, recent success against HMs than has Penn (Boudreaux, Brennan, Bruner).

Again, if people need me to cede that Columbia and Penn are recruiting similarly, you got it. You win. Penn is currently recruiting around 5th or 6th best in the Ivies. I think that's bad.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
03-14-16 03:20 PM - Post#204445    

Not sure I agree.

Dallier may have gone to Yale under any circumstance, but he was not our first choice at that position. Matt Howard was Interestingly enough, Jerome's staff didn't aggressively pursue a couple of players who turned out to be outstanding Ivy players. One whom we passed on was none other than Justin Sears who the staff thought was flawed. There were others including big Cedric who was marginal academically and they didn't see him as a difference maker. And of course Lo was playing Prep ball under former Penn coach Chris Sparks. It certainly seems like we made some misjudgments, which may have been the bigger problem than simply getting outrecruited.

As for the others you mentioned, one must recognize that Boudreux had significant Dartmouth connections and that was difficult to overcome. Brennen isn't that good and wasn't a Penn priority.

I'm not saying our recruiting has been where it should be but I think Brodeur will be a star in the league and we all seem to be overlooking Matt MacDonald who might really help next year.

I'm clearly disappointed we didn't bring in another big this year, but there is still time between guys still floating around and the myriad of transfers, some who have surfaced with more likely to come with all the coaches being fired.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
03-14-16 05:33 PM - Post#204458    

Using my win share projection model (which I think I've shown on these boards before), in the seasons during the Allen era, I would have had Penn at the following rank by year (by expected win shares):

2015 (current freshmen): T-3
2014: 2
2013: 1
2012: 3
2011: 2
2010: T-2

Now, Penn has an extraordinary run of bad luck with many of those classes. They took some guys who were evaluated highly before being injured in HS, had some high major programs back off and never panned out in college. They've had some transfers. They've had some injuries.

Add it all up, and if I were to include dummy variables for teams, Penn would be the only one with a statistically significant negative variable, meaning that it just characteristically underperformed the model over the selected time frame.

I guess from that you might both be right. Penn still has recruited pretty well in terms of getting players it wants, but it's had bad luck/poor evals on those players leading to general underperformance.

I've been debating how to put a qualitative view on what I'm seeing on the recruiting landscape. Harvard clearly gets who it wants. It loses very few recruiting battles in the league when it can provide an immediate offer along with other Ivy competition. Beyond that, there's a clear rung of Yale, Penn, Princeton, which frequently are pursuing different targets, but seem to land a relatively equal share of common targets. Beyond that, if I had to gamble on a staff that could steal a kid from another Ivy, I'd probably go with Dartmouth and Brown.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
03-14-16 06:56 PM - Post#204472    

Mike-- what you attribute to bad luck could also be plausibly attributed, at least in part, to incompetent coaching.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
03-14-16 07:40 PM - Post#204480    

I do wonder if it is more than bad luck with Penn. I wonder if there has been an easily identifiable class of kids who got higher ratings than they should have b/c the ratings never caught up with a fairly serious injury that reduced recruiting interest. Patrick Lucas-Perry, Greg Louis, and Henry Brooks may all fall into this category.

I think the ratings get better each year, so the time when guys get overrated when interest dries up may be passing.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
03-14-16 07:56 PM - Post#204486    

By the way, over the weekend Chastain led his school (unranked) to win the 1A state title. Just incredible.

Of course, that probably means Penn's chances of getting him are now next to nil, but what a story...
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
03-14-16 10:12 PM - Post#204508    

Since Mike's numbers demonstrably disconfirm what I claimed I'll walk it back. I remain concerned that the talent level is the larger part of the problem for Penn and particularly am concerned about where Penn stands for 2017.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
03-16-16 12:57 AM - Post#204608    

You can count me in on same 2017 recruiting concerns based on publicly available info.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
03-16-16 09:19 AM - Post#204622    

I don't think what's publicly available has much to do with the reality of 2017 at this point. On Verbal Commits Harvard has exactly zero recruits listed. Princeton has 1 and Yale has 21 (Penn has 11).

2017 actual recruiting starts in April with the onset of the AAU season. The real work is done in April and then in July with most of the best players narrowing down their choices over summer and verbally committing somewhere in the September-November time frame.

It is very early for 2017 and what's "publicly available" means little to nothing right now.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
03-16-16 10:15 AM - Post#204634    

The recruiting cycle has moved forward a lot, but not enough that I'd be concerned not having a commit or public interest from 2017 recruits yet.

2017 is a big opportunity for the league. Harvard is probably only going to take 3 or 4 kids max. It's already got the ones it wants in its scopes, and many are not crossovers to the rest of the league. That could mean open season on a bunch of 3- and 4-star kids to stock a variety of different Ivies. On the flip side, whiffing on the 2017 class could be a breakpoint in go-forward competitiveness in this league in the near future.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
03-16-16 10:56 AM - Post#204637    

I don't see any evidence the cycle has moved forward. Certainly these coaches all have their targets for 2017. They determined those last July and into the fall. Most coaches were out last fall in open gyms and prior to their conference seasons attending games. But that process hasn't changed in several years.

Once they have their targets, coaches have been actively texting/calling them and trying to get them to come on unofficial visits througout their seasons. Now that most of the HS seasons have finished the AAU slate starts in April and college coaches can refine their targets and source new ones as they see who has taken a jump in their development.

April AAU is huge for recruits and schools.
91Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1124
03-16-16 11:35 AM - Post#204641    

Mike can defend himself but I think this is just a question of time frame. I read that comment from Mike and others who have talked about the shift in the recruiting cycle is relative to 10 or 20 years ago when the coaches were not texting the recruits because it did not exist. I do not believe is was a reference to the past few years.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
03-16-16 12:05 PM - Post#204646    

To be fair, the notion of "publicly available" information on recruiting wasn't available until the last few years either. My original comments were in response to Mike Porter who expressed concern over the state of Penn recruiting for 2017. It's just too early to be concerned (or happy).

Mike may have interpreted my original reply as demonstrating the recruiting cycle for 2017 doesn't start until spring/summer. That's why I added the second post about last summer and fall being the initial opportunities for juniors to be identified.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
03-16-16 02:02 PM - Post#204658    

Yeah, I guess my impression comes from when the commitments have started rolling in both for the league and nationally. Harvard got three of its 2016 recruits by the end of April 2015 and another couple over the summer. It only got its final two of seven during the normal "early" recruiting months of Sept - Nov.

I remember back when getting a junior year commitment would have been unheard of and now it's pretty commonplace.

While I agree that we mostly still see alignment targets with schools over the junior-to-senior summer, such that not being mentioned with most junior prospects isn't a huge concern, if you're interested in being in on the Top 100-150 prospects, that timeframe has shifted forward. At both Rivals and Scout, nearly 20% of the 2017 class is committed, which is crazy.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
03-16-16 02:14 PM - Post#204662    

I don't think the Ivy's are going to consistently get top 100 players in the near future. There are really 10-15 players a year that get to pick their own school. The rest have to go through the "dating game" and find the right fit.

To be clear you said 20% of the class of 2017 is committed. That's for the top 150 on Rivals and Scout right? That's a very different number than the entire 2017 class. While there are certainly commits from players outside those rankings, you are talking about 20-25 players in the country from those lists.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
03-16-16 02:21 PM - Post#204663    

The other point that is eminently clear, as you say last year Harvard had 3 commitments by April and currently they list zero recruits on Verbal Commits for 2017. So obviously the information that is publicly available doesn't reflect the reality.

Either way, we would all agree there are aggressive recruiting efforts going on for the 2017 class since late last summer (texts, calls, unofficial visits, etc).
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
03-16-16 03:53 PM - Post#204670    

My guess is that Harvard's philosophy about publicity has changed. I think initially there was a push under Amaker to be very public about who Harvard was pursuing, in an effort to get their name out there associated with higher level recruits.

Now that Harvard is landing those recruits, I think they are more reticent about making it abundantly obvious who they are involved with.

That's just a guess as to why Verbal Commits used to have everyone under the sun for Harvard in past years, and nobody this year (while it has reversed for Yale).
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
03-16-16 03:57 PM - Post#204671    

Not sure how this applies to the arguments being made, but we do have 2 of the 3 Ivy commits for 2017 so far.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
03-16-16 04:33 PM - Post#204673    

I'm not sure why Verbal Commits doesn't have anyone Harvard is pursuing, but many of the top Harvard targets are pretty public. There was an article about Wendell Carter and Mo Bamba's Harvard interest. Lots of stuff on Twitter about Jaron Faulds' visit. More there on its visits to see guards Mario Haskett, Matt Beachler and Jamal Johnson. There's probably 15 to 20 kids that I've seen Harvard being reported to be involved with in the 2017 class.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
03-16-16 04:34 PM - Post#204674    

I do think that the Ivies will continue to get Top 100-150 talent going forward. Last year, two teams nabbed four-star guys and that didn't include Penn or Princeton. Not sure why it would be more likely to stop than to expand to those traditional powers.
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
03-16-16 06:56 PM - Post#204679    

Just wondering - how many 4 star players has the league gotten in the last 20 years or so? I realize Harvard got some good ones recently. Any others that people can recall?
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
03-16-16 07:15 PM - Post#204680    

Jordan Bruner in the 2016 class for Yale. The 4-star thing is a new concept.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
03-16-16 09:00 PM - Post#204707    

  • mrjames Said:
I do think that the Ivies will continue to get Top 100-150 talent going forward. Last year, two teams nabbed four-star guys and that didn't include Penn or Princeton. Not sure why it would be more likely to stop than to expand to those traditional powers.




I totally agree and I'm on records it's you about the inevitability of at large bids for the Ivy, despite the conference tourney. If we are a top 10 conference with regular 4 star players picking various schools, the victories over top 50 schools will come and the at large bids will follow.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
03-16-16 09:03 PM - Post#204710    

  • SomeGuy Said:
My guess is that Harvard's philosophy about publicity has changed. I think initially there was a push under Amaker to be very public about who Harvard was pursuing, in an effort to get their name out there associated with higher level recruits.

Now that Harvard is landing those recruits, I think they are more reticent about making it abundantly obvious who they are involved with.

That's just a guess as to why Verbal Commits used to have everyone under the sun for Harvard in past years, and nobody this year (while it has reversed for Yale).



This could be part of the reason but Verbal Commita doesn't just take info from schools, they often get it from the players as well as social media. As Mike says it's not a secret. So if there are things out there on Harvard recruits VC is not picking it up for some reason.

NathanVC
Freshman
Posts 9
03-17-16 01:57 AM - Post#204758    

  • PennFan10 Said:
  • SomeGuy Said:
My guess is that Harvard's philosophy about publicity has changed. I think initially there was a push under Amaker to be very public about who Harvard was pursuing, in an effort to get their name out there associated with higher level recruits.

Now that Harvard is landing those recruits, I think they are more reticent about making it abundantly obvious who they are involved with.

That's just a guess as to why Verbal Commits used to have everyone under the sun for Harvard in past years, and nobody this year (while it has reversed for Yale).



This could be part of the reason but Verbal Commita doesn't just take info from schools, they often get it from the players as well as social media. As Mike says it's not a secret. So if there are things out there on Harvard recruits VC is not picking it up for some reason.





Hello, this is Nathan LeClair from Verbal Commits. The reason we don't have any "offers" on the Harvard page is most likely because we haven't found any links or have been informed directly of any Harvard offers. The team pages are scholarship charts; interest is only expressed on individual profiles. It's possible that these players you listed as having interest have Harvard offers, but we have not been informed of them or they (players and/or staff) don't want it to be public knowledge. There are schools that keep offers on the DL; that could be the way the Harvard staff chooses to go about recruiting.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
03-17-16 10:31 AM - Post#204766    

Nathan-- thanks very much for the clarification. Question: is interest level a data point self-reported by the players?

On another note, I find it remarkable that somebody from VC is aware of our crappy little backwater discussion board.
NathanVC
Freshman
Posts 9
03-18-16 01:19 PM - Post#204896    

  • Silver Maple Said:
Nathan-- thanks very much for the clarification. Question: is interest level a data point self-reported by the players?

On another note, I find it remarkable that somebody from VC is aware of our crappy little backwater discussion board.



Interest level is often reported by players, but we're very wary on how we go about adding it to profiles. We consider interest as being invited to visit campus and/or daily (or near daily) contact with the staff. A generic letter, or something along those lines, is not interest.
1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts 2261
1LotteryPick1969
03-18-16 08:53 PM - Post#204944    

  • Silver Maple Said:
our crappy little backwater discussion board.



I've never considered this discussion board that "little".
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
03-19-16 04:22 PM - Post#205020    

I notice you're not taking issue with 'crappy.'
1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts 2261
1LotteryPick1969
03-19-16 07:00 PM - Post#205037    

Or backwater.

It's like the film Splash, when they introduce the "m0ron twins" and one of them says, "we're not twins".

(can't use the word m0ron on this site )
gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts 487
03-19-16 11:29 PM - Post#205049    

I think the coaches got it banned.
gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts 487
03-19-16 11:32 PM - Post#205050    

Or maybe a former AD...
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
03-24-16 10:09 PM - Post#205302    

Verbal Commits
2016 Kent (CT) G Maxime Boursiquot has received an offer from Penn
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
03-25-16 12:05 AM - Post#205303    

Great that the staff is still pushing for 2016 recruits - yes please to more added talent sooner rather than later.

Maxime looks like he would be a good late recruit. Here is his midseason highlight reel from this year: http://www.hudl.com/athlete/6923970/highl ights/329...

To give some comparisons:

- He is ranked #41 in latest NERR 2016 class rankings.
- Ray Jerome is ranked #63
- Jimbo Lull who chose mess of a program USF over us is #51
- Yale's recruit Miye Oni is #40

He wad also first team Class A in New England, the same division Yale's Miya Oni was player of the year.

Perhaps most intriguing is this description:

Maxime Boursiquot, Kent – He’s most naturally suited for the wing but has the power and physicality to play either forward position. His motor and toughness are his calling cards but he also offers extremely long arms as well, making him a gifted defender.

Gifted defender would be a VERY welcome addition.


besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
04-01-16 12:03 AM - Post#205620    

Verbal Commits ‏
2016 Kent (CT) G Maxime Boursiquot has committed to Northeastern.
Jay O
Masters Student
Posts 547
04-01-16 01:36 AM - Post#205623    

Sacré bleu!
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
04-07-16 11:07 PM - Post#205882    

Adam Zagoria
Coaches at Mohamed Bamba/ Brandon Randolph/Cam Redish today: Roy Williams/Steve Robinson (UNC), Nate James (Duke), Chuck Martin (IU),Ricky Moore (UConn), Danny Manning (Wake), Steve Donahue (Penn).
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
04-08-16 09:17 AM - Post#205899    

Don't see any of those guys coming to Penn but we did offer a wing named Cormac Ryan from the Middlesex Magic, an AAU team some of our guys have played for.

He's getting some interest from power schools in addition to most of the Ivies.
Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts 1439
04-08-16 09:37 AM - Post#205901    

Asia,

Mike Jame's podcast has Harvard seriously in the running for Mr. Bamba. Is that consistent with your information?


besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
04-08-16 10:33 AM - Post#205905    

Probably worth mentioning that Matt Donahue, Jackson's brother, also plays for Middlesex.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
04-08-16 10:59 AM - Post#205907    

Don't have a clue. I just goggled him and saw he was a 5 star recruit and assumed he's an unlikely for Penn
20Penn14
Senior
Posts 364
04-08-16 11:03 AM - Post#205909    

Bamba is currently #4 on ESPN's 2017 list
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12480
04-08-16 11:04 AM - Post#205910    

If he starts getting top 10 guys we may as well just quit.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
04-08-16 11:25 AM - Post#205914    

Even if you don't believe me, there's public confirmation that this is true. Here's an excerpt from a Scout article with Wendell Carter's mom (another 2017 5-star Top 5 player that Harvard is aggressively pursuing):

  • Quote:
You’ve mentioned Mohamed Bamba before and what that would look like for him and Wendell to possibly play together, have you guys talked a lot more about that with him or just in general?
Not at all, but Wendell told me that him and Mohamed have talked about it. They may be planning something or just talking about how they are being recruited by some of the same schools since they are, so they have probably chatted about it but we definitely haven’t talked really seriously about it, not at all. All they would have to say is we’re playing at the same school, that would be that. I know Wendell told me that Mohamed is very interested in Harvard. I think it would go well for Wendell and Kevin and Mohamed for either way to play together or not, but they definitely could play together because Wendell has played with Kevin in USA and they played well together and he only played with Mohamed in the Bahamas that one time but with all of their high IQs and abilities with a good coach, it would work.



http://www.scout.com/college/duke/story/16 49768-be...
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
04-08-16 06:01 PM - Post#205951    

  • penn nation Said:
Well, he's now officially legit as LeRoy beat Newark 58-50 tonight.

Chastain scored 34 (14 for 17), including 4 for 6 from three point land, and added 12 rebounds.

Newark was 28-2 heading into this contest.




Per Twitter, this kid is on official visit to Illinois State this weekend and Utah next weekend.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
04-08-16 08:05 PM - Post#205958    

Doesn't seem all that interested in us.

Is that transfer possibility dead? There so many of them out there.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
04-17-16 04:04 PM - Post#206234    

Ari
Fran Dunphy and two assistants, Steve Donahue, St. Joe's, and Villanova all watching PSA Cardinals (Quade Green, Mo Bamba, Brandon Randolph)
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
04-18-16 10:08 AM - Post#206243    

  • Quote:
--When he transferred to Westtown from Saint Peter’s Prep in 2014 and reclassified, Najja Hunter (2017/PSA Cardinals) had offers from several NY/NJ area schools, like Seton Hall and St. John’s. Since then, his recruiting has gone in a completely different direction. Now boasting a 3.7 GPA as he prepares for his final year of high school, Hunter is being recruited heavily by the Ivy Leagues; so far he’s visited Harvard, Yale and Columbia, while also hearing plenty from Penn. A planned African-American History major, Hunter said he’ll take his official visits after the EYBL season with a decision to come before the 2016-17 high school season.



http://www.cityofbasketballlove.com/news_article/s...

  • Quote:
Chyree Walker (2017/Team Takeover) has a number of Philadelphia schools involved in his recruitment: Penn and Saint Joseph’s have both offered the 6-5, 195-pound wing out of The Bullis School (Md.), joining a group that also includes George Washington, Georgia Tech, Towson, Old Dominion and more. But it’s another Big 5 institution that Walker said has been in touch most often: “Temple. They haven’t extended an offer, heavy interest.”

Playing on a loaded Takeover group that includes no fewer than five future mid-to-high-major wings, Walker had his best offensive output of the weekend on Sunday with eight points against Mac Irvin Fire, hitting a nifty pull-up baseline jumper and connecting on all four of his foul shots. He admitted his shot was “developing” and named that as one of two things he was focusing on this summer, along with his ball-handling.



http://www.cityofbasketballlove.com/news_article/s...
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
04-19-16 12:27 AM - Post#206301    

ProScholarsAthletics
#PSACardinals 2017 G Walter Whyte was offered by UPenn & Northeastern today. #OwnYourDestiny

i can't even imagine the bad jokes this board is cooking up in response to this offer.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
04-19-16 12:47 AM - Post#206302    

You really had to say "cooking up"? nice.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
04-19-16 08:43 AM - Post#206310    

It was almost an uncertainty principle joke, but I decided this one was a little easier.
20Penn14
Senior
Posts 364
04-22-16 08:33 PM - Post#206499    

Sasha Stefanovic ‏@Sash_Stefanovic
Received another offer today from Penn! #IvyLeague 🔴🔵

He seems to have a variety of offers, including Xavier and TCU and DePaul
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
04-23-16 03:13 PM - Post#206505    

Looks like Matt Chastain, the 1A phenom from downstate IL talked about on here has committed to Grace Calhoun's former school, Loyola of the Missouri Valley Conference.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
04-24-16 03:27 PM - Post#206513    

According to Verbal Commits:

4/18/2016 - 2017 PF Sukhmail Mathon (6-9, 220, 2★) has received an offer from Pennsylvania. - See more at: http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/pennsylvania# ...

besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
04-24-16 03:56 PM - Post#206514    

Went to the Drexel-Penn game in '15:

Holderness Hoops
2017 Sukhmail Mathon will be at the @PennBasketball vs @Drexel_MBB game tonight.

palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
04-24-16 07:23 PM - Post#206519    

If he went to that game, he knows he will be able to play right away at Penn. Ugliest game of the year.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
04-24-16 10:04 PM - Post#206521    

I doubt he will play right away in fall of 2017. That's a long way from December 2015. If Max and AJ aren't dominating the minutes the. Coaches should be fired.
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
04-24-16 11:13 PM - Post#206523    


Unless they're gonna play 40 minutes each there should be plenty of minutes in the frontcourt.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
04-25-16 12:58 AM - Post#206524    

Not if Donahue plays 4 guards with the 4th being Matt Howard/Matt McDonald type. That's what he did most last year. We don't go "big" very often. We did against Yale, Columbia and GMason, who all had bigger lineups but usually our 'big' on the floor was DNH/Max/Dwyer.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
04-25-16 09:25 AM - Post#206525    

  • besnoah Said:


2017's class is setting up to be really interesting. As everyone some of us remember, Penn bulk offered 3 NMH kids last year: Kellan Grady, Andrew Platek, and Jerome Desrosiers.

Grady now has a top 4 of Davidson, Butler, Nova, and Northwestern. Platek has offers from Miami, Penn State, Davidson, Rutgers and has rumored interest from Butler, Wisconsin, and UNC (who knows?). Desrosiers has a much more conventional offer list, but it appears Harvard will be at the top of it.




Grady went with Davidson.

pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
04-25-16 09:47 AM - Post#206527    

Nice to see him on this list

4/24/2016 - 2017 SF Najja Hunter (6-5, 185, 3★) | Position Rank: 42 has received an offer from Pennsylvania. - See more at: http://verbalcommits.com/schools/pennsylvania# stha...
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
04-25-16 10:17 AM - Post#206530    


Yeah and how did that work out? If we have a big that can play it would behoove the coach to get him on the floor.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
04-25-16 10:24 AM - Post#206531    

It's extremely hard to separate the increased reporting on the recruiting process from the quality of the league-wide offer list, but from what I'm hearing, this is likely to be another monster class for the Ivy with a bunch of 3-stars and above in the haul.
FlaQuaker
Junior
Posts 223
04-25-16 10:39 AM - Post#206532    

Mike, who are you hearing is making noise with the 3-stars and up (aside from H)?
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
04-25-16 11:03 AM - Post#206533    

All of Harvard, Princeton, Penn and Yale should have big years (with depth relative to their needs), and a couple of the other four schools could surprise. It's hard to allocate recruits to teams because there's a trickle-down effect, depending on whether pool-expanding recruits decide to go Ivy.

My initial line would be 9.5 3-star or better recruits league-wide with 4.5 teams ending up with at least one.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
04-25-16 11:46 AM - Post#206536    

I agree. And we will have at least two bigs on our roster with a year and two years experience by then. Those are the guys who will be better than a 2 star high school graduate, just like our guys weren't any good against Drexel. You win in this league (barring top 10 recruiting classes) with juniors and seniors who have been in your program and have experience. That's what Yale did last year. I believe guys like AJ and Max are younger versions of Sears and Sherrod and no 2 star HS graduate is going to come in and beat them out if our coaches are doing their job.
HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts 2685
04-25-16 11:56 AM - Post#206538    

Mike, any 4 stars projected?
I assume 5 star talk is just that.
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
04-25-16 12:50 PM - Post#206543    


I don't care how many stars he has. If he can play he can play. There's far too much credence already put into these rating systems. Most have everything to do with your AAU affiliation or whose summer league you're in or who you're touring with than ability. Forgive me if I tend to lean a little old school with my evaluations. Roll the ball out and let them. I'll leave the stars to the astronomers.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
04-25-16 12:59 PM - Post#206544    

Well, my guess is that Donahue strongly prefers to have a 4 who can step out and hit 3s. I also would guess that his preference is to have a guy at that position with more height than Howard and more strength than Sam Jones.

Brodeur seems to have some range, so it will be interesting to see how he translates at the next level.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
04-25-16 02:07 PM - Post#206547    

Great. That's a completely different point. I am not actually sure what you are talking about now.

All I am saying is the players in your program that you are developing should be the ones that play unless you get a superstar that is better. You win this league with seniors.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
04-25-16 02:21 PM - Post#206549    

That has almost literally never been true. Penn '93-95 started off with sophs.
Princeton -96 to 98 started with frosh and sophs.
Penn '99-00 mostly due to the juniors
Penn 02-03 due to juniors
Penn 05-07 started with the sophs
Cornell 08-10 started with the sophs
Harvard's run started with young players.

Talent plays. It's arguable that a 2* guy isn't any more special than what we have here already.

Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
04-25-16 02:28 PM - Post#206550    


Ok let me clarify. I don't give a rats butt about how many stars a kid has attached to his name as you seem to. And I don't care how many years a kid has in the program. If you can play you can play. My opinion. Don't over think it.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
04-25-16 02:40 PM - Post#206551    

Simple enough. I agree. I am just 'speculating' that this particular kid isn't going to be better (or shouldn't be) than what we have in the gym the day he gets to campus. I really don't care about stars either, not sure how we digressed there, probably my reference.

Jeff2sf- your last line is my point. He could be a seriously mislabeled 2* and if he can play, he will, but I am hoping our then Junior/Sophomores will be dominating.


PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
04-25-16 02:46 PM - Post#206552    

Specifically what I am looking at is AJ Brodeur, who comes in with at least as much fanfare as Justin Sears and judging from his game tape he will be very good. I am also looking at guys in the program like Max R, whose numbers in games he played significant minutes are really good. His numbers resemble Sherrod's as a freshman. I am not saying it will happen, but Penn fans would be really happy if those two became productive at the level of Sears and Sherrod. McManus and Dwyer could factor in here but we know less about them right now.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
04-25-16 03:02 PM - Post#206554    

The fact that Colin McManus basically didn't play at all last season makes it hard for me to be optimistic about him. I know that the bigger guys often bloom later, but even a guy who's not ready for primetime but has good future potential will start to see some semi-significant PT by the end of his freshman year.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
04-25-16 03:22 PM - Post#206555    

Maybe. But with DNH as the primary big it was going to be tough to get into that rotation. You may be right though.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
04-25-16 04:00 PM - Post#206557    

I did something awhile back about predicting breakout players that didn't play much their freshman year (I forget the cutoff, maybe 30 or 40% of team minutes). The top two predictors of breakout performance was recruiting ranking and available minutes at the position. The past performance in the small sample may have been statistically insignificant, but if it wasn't, it was economically insignificant relative to those other factors.

I gotta find that research - maybe I'll just try duplicating it from scratch.
HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts 2685
04-25-16 05:23 PM - Post#206558    

Mike, good luck figuring out the difference between Wes' sophomore breakout compared to the lack thereof for Andre and Chris!
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
04-25-16 05:40 PM - Post#206561    

A few years ago I researched breakout potential of all Ivy players during a 7 year time period based on their Freshman year performance. The best predictor was the minutes they played Freshman year, provided they were moderately efficient. A Freshman who averaged at least 15 minutes a game with a 90+ ORtg had a decent chance at being an All-Ivy player, anyone with a worse ORtg or who played fewer minutes fared worse. Success rate was low for a player who barely got on the court Freshman year.

SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
04-25-16 11:32 PM - Post#206567    

I think that's an easy one. Saunders played over 400 minutes as a freshman, and had an ORAT around 105. That's a pretty likely candidate for a breakout.

Chatfield and Egi both played under 200 minutes as freshman, and both had sub 100 ORATs. Egi's ORAT was down around the level that does not bode well for a breakout.

Not sure what Mike and TheLine found in their analysis, but I would guess both would identify Saunders. Like Makai Mason this year, I think Saunders was an easy one to see coming.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
04-26-16 12:10 AM - Post#206568    

  • TheLine Said:
A few years ago I researched breakout potential of all Ivy players during a 7 year time period based on their Freshman year performance. The best predictor was the minutes they played Freshman year, provided they were moderately efficient. A Freshman who averaged at least 15 minutes a game with a 90+ ORtg had a decent chance at being an All-Ivy player, anyone with a worse ORtg or who played fewer minutes fared worse. Success rate was low for a player who barely got on the court Freshman year.




This is interesting data. I don't know how to find ORtg for players, presumably that's a KenPom stat and I don't have access to that data and even if I did I don't have the numbers prowess of several others who post. I would be interested, since this is the Penn board, on the ORtg for this years freshman given so many of them were on the court this season.

whitakk
Masters Student
Posts 523
04-26-16 12:14 AM - Post#206569    

College Basketball Reference also has it, although the numbers differ slightly from KenPom's (because non-D1 games are included). Search for "ORtg" http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/pennsy...
Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts 1439
04-26-16 12:51 AM - Post#206570    

Please find the formula that identified Kareem Maddox as a future star in the league based on his 2007-2008 performance as a freshman.


TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
04-26-16 09:34 AM - Post#206572    

I used KenPom numbers back when I did my research, but yes, you can use CBR numbers instead.

Stu, as you know we're dealing with probabilities. There are going to be outliers because the available stats don't paint a full picture. If I recall most of the outliers were front court players. Jason Miller and Big Ben were other big guys who underwhelmed as Freshmen.

mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
04-26-16 10:01 AM - Post#206574    

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfitting
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
04-26-16 10:21 AM - Post#206576    

It's more Occum's razor. Better players can force their way onto the court as Freshmen and not be awful, even if it's just a backup end-of-the rotation role. The players who can't force their way onto the court or who sink when they do aren't as good.

I couldn't find much of a correlation other than that. There was a weak correlation between success and better FT% as well as better 3FG%. Outliers were mostly front court players (longer time to develop?). Back court players either got playing time their Freshman year or didn't develop into anything beyond low level starters or role players.

PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
04-26-16 11:54 AM - Post#206579    

  • whitakk Said:
College Basketball Reference also has it, although the numbers differ slightly from KenPom's (because non-D1 games are included). Search for "ORtg" http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/pennsy...



Thank you. I have been enlightened. This is very helpful

Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
04-26-16 12:47 PM - Post#206580    

One of the best stories I remember was Donald Moxley. He never averaged more than 1.5 mins/gm until his senior year, when he became 2nd team All-Ivy (I had to look that up). I believe he even played on the JV before being called up to the varsity.
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3988
04-26-16 02:09 PM - Post#206582    

Back in the '80s, Brown's Lim Turner didn't start until his Sr. Yr., led the league in scoring, was POY and Brown won the title.
10Q
Professor
Posts 23199
04-27-16 08:33 AM - Post#206591    

Moxley played an important, albeit limited role on the team his junior year. No one expected his break out performance the next year.
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
04-27-16 05:37 PM - Post#206608    

He played 1.4 minutes per game as a junior, so I'm not sure I would call it important. He was deep on the bench with Allen, Maloney, and Bowman ahead of him.

In his senior year, Bowman and Krug made first team all-ivy and he was 2nd team. Even though he was the point guard, he didn't lead the team in assists, 3 pt. shooting, or steals. Bowman did a whole lot of everything that year.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
04-28-16 03:40 AM - Post#206616    

Another offer for Geo Baker. This one coming from the University of Pennsylvania @Geo_Baker_1 @AdamFinkelstein @VerbalCommits

4/28/2016 - 2017 PG Geo Baker (6-1, -, 2★) has received an offer from Pennsylvania. - See more at: http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/pennsylvania# ...

Currently a 2 star recruit but just offered by Kansas State and Rutgers in last few days so seems that ranking will change.
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2801
04-28-16 08:01 AM - Post#206618    

I think I'll go down to the coffee shop and see if there are any attractive new widows.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
04-28-16 10:27 AM - Post#206624    

I don't think Moxley was ever the point guard on that team. Lyren was at the start of the season, and then after he got hurt Dunphy moved Ira Bowman to that spot.

I guess Moxley or Kreitz had to play point when Bowman was off the floor, which may be part of why Bowman was almost never off the floor.
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
04-28-16 11:23 AM - Post#206627    



Thanks for the update Mike.
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
04-28-16 07:12 PM - Post#206640    

  • Tiger69 Said:
I think I'll go down to the coffee shop and see if there are any attractive new widows.



Hey, if you're going to hang around in the Penn section of the board and delight yourself with all of our angst and misery, at least have the courtesy to silently ignore us when we reminisce about better times!
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2801
04-28-16 07:48 PM - Post#206641    

Things are slow -- there's nowhere else to go.
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3988
04-28-16 08:32 PM - Post#206645    

Well T69, the sun is always shinning on the Columbia Board.
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2801
04-28-16 08:47 PM - Post#206647    

They rank exes? What an interesting idea....
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
05-01-16 03:17 AM - Post#206693    

Looks like at least two 2017 prospects are on campus this weekend: Eddie Scott and Jelani Williams. Both of which are DC area players that play on Team Takeover and seem close:

Gonzaga(DC)/@TTOBasketbal l 2017 SG Eddie Scott (@_tmeddie) announces offer from Boston; will take 1st visit to Penn this weekend! #PrepHoops

@_tmeddie: EXCITED TO GO ON MY FIRST OFFICIAL VISIT TO PENN THIS WEEKEND ❗️❗️ #LetsGoQuakers #Ivy

@_tmeddie: KEEPTHE FAMILY CLOSE 💉 @_JWill2_
(Has picture of Eddie and Jelani)
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
05-01-16 03:36 AM - Post#206694    

Interestingly Team Takeover also has a 3/4 star 6'11" center Luke Garza. He is getting higher level looks, but Princeton and Columbia have already offered. Curious if we are targeting him and if so, why we haven't offered yet.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
05-01-16 03:39 AM - Post#206695    

Anyone else see that Andrew Platek got an offer from UNC? I'm guessing that long shot just got a lot longer...
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
05-02-16 10:25 PM - Post#206719    

Elias Sbiet
2017 | C/F | Anthony Lonpre has received an offer from Penn #CanBall
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
05-04-16 02:10 PM - Post#206755    

Pat Lawless
R.J. Cole, a class of 2017 PG playing for the NJ Playaz, just picked up an offer from UPenn.

St. Anthony Friars
Congratulations to 'Akuwovo "Saviour" Ogheneyole '18 (F) on his offer from the University of Pennsylvania #FriarNation
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
05-04-16 02:39 PM - Post#206757    

We're recruiting St. Anthony players? That's a step in the right direction. Is Zack Rosen involved?

mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
05-04-16 02:48 PM - Post#206758    

FWIW, my wife teaches there. I may catch some games next season, and if I do, I'll send out a report.
SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts 1150
05-05-16 12:05 AM - Post#206768    

Zack went to St Benedict's, not St Anthony (though they are located near each other in North Jersey).
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
05-05-16 07:45 AM - Post#206771    

Dan Hurley coached St Benedict's when Zack was there. St Anthony is coached by his father, Bob Hurley, so there's a connection.

For those who don't know, St Anthony's is the top HS basketball team in NJ most years and one of the top in the country.

Mike, thanks in advance for any reports.

pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
05-13-16 09:54 AM - Post#206957    

Mark Miller
‏@WisBBYearbook
Penn coach Steve Donahue extended an offer today to Ripon/WI United 2017 F Bennett Vander Plas (6-8).

Offers from Memphis, Bucknell, Cedarville.
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3988
05-13-16 04:53 PM - Post#206978    

How could he not choose Cedarville?
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
05-13-16 05:44 PM - Post#206981    

Is that near Metropolis?
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
05-13-16 06:53 PM - Post#206984    

Ripon is also the birthplace of the Republican Party.

Do we want The Donald to try to recruit this guy? I'd rather have him do that than try to run the country.
yoyo
Senior
Posts 354
05-14-16 07:27 AM - Post#206990    

Make Penn Great Again!
Chuck
Masters Student
Posts 995
Chuck
05-15-16 05:37 PM - Post#207001    

  • Quote:
Make Penn Great Again!



Easier to build a wall with China! Oh, wait a second they already have one...

Which comes first: man walks on Mars, Penn ranked in top 25?
CrimsonHoops
Freshman
Posts 24
05-15-16 07:56 PM - Post#207002    

I agree that it would be very difficult for the Quakers to complete with the mighty Cedarville Yellow Jackets for the services of Bennett Vander Plas. Last year, Cedarville had a losing record playing in the killer Great Midwestern conference with other D2 powerhouses like Ohio Valley Fighting Scots or the Alderson Broaddus Battlers.

I fairness, Bennett’s sister Taylor just graduated from Cedarville where she was a starter for their women’s basketball team. Bennett probably attended a ton of his sister’s games on the Cedarville campus. Bennett has excellent bloodlines in hoops. His father, Dean Vander Plas led his University of Wisconsin Green Bay team to their first NCAA tournament in school history in 1991.

91Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1124
05-16-16 06:50 AM - Post#207003    

You mean the player with offers from American, Memphis, Loyola MD, Ohio, Bucknell, Green Bay, Milwaukee? Thanks for the help. Go away.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
05-16-16 09:44 AM - Post#207007    

  • 91Quake Said:
You mean the player with offers from American, Memphis, Loyola MD, Ohio, Bucknell, Green Bay, Milwaukee? Thanks for the help. Go away.



It was a thoughtful and informed response. Stop being a tool.

Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
05-16-16 10:47 AM - Post#207008    

  • pennhoops Said:
  • 91Quake Said:
You mean the player with offers from American, Memphis, Loyola MD, Ohio, Bucknell, Green Bay, Milwaukee? Thanks for the help. Go away.



It was a thoughtful and informed response. Stop being a tool.




Second.
91Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1124
05-16-16 12:51 PM - Post#207012    

Oh you must mean in the first paragraph where he says penn can't compete with a team with a losing record in division II?

And I'll think about your request when you stop being a douche.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
05-16-16 01:38 PM - Post#207013    

If you couldn't detect the sarcasm that was dripping off that post, through your monitor, onto your keyboard, and down into a big puddle on your floor that your cat is taking a nap in right now... then you're bad at detecting sarcasm.
91Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1124
05-16-16 07:27 PM - Post#207016    

fair enough- apologies then- and it's my dog taking the nap
CrimsonHoops
Freshman
Posts 24
05-17-16 08:57 AM - Post#207019    

No apologies needed.

I simply enjoy occasionally trying to match the wit and subtle humor conveyed by some of the Penn, Princeton, and Columbia alums on their respective threads. At least, the Crimson have MJ to try to get us using the left side of our brains more.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
05-18-16 11:52 PM - Post#207103    

Penn offered in August of '15. His recruitment blew up this summer:

Verbal Commits
2017 Lakeville North (MN) F Nathan Reuvers has committed to Wisconsin.

Andrew Slater
R.J. Cole visits Brown & Boston U. on 6/13 & Penn on 6/15. Offers include Brown, BU, Penn, Howard, Loyola, Bucknell


91Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1124
05-27-16 09:42 PM - Post#207314    

Ryan Daly to Delaware. First Martin Inglesby recruit.
Big R&B Truth
Masters Student
Posts 427
Big R&B Truth
05-31-16 03:23 PM - Post#207344    

I am somewhat familiar with this school.
Cedarville College is not a school that you would go to unless you are a fundamentalist Christian.
I know nothing about this guy, but since his sister went there it is likely that his family is quite religious. That would not necessarily make him a great fit for the environment at Penn.


  • CrimsonHoops Said:
In fairness, Bennett’s sister Taylor just graduated from Cedarville where she was a starter for their women’s basketball team. Bennett probably attended a ton of his sister’s games on the Cedarville campus. Bennett has excellent bloodlines in hoops. His father, Dean Vander Plas led his University of Wisconsin Green Bay team to their first NCAA tournament in school history in 1991.




Big R&B Truth
Masters Student
Posts 427
Big R&B Truth
05-31-16 03:41 PM - Post#207345    

Then again, perhaps our fellow alumnus, Donald, will make Penn the "in school" for the evangelical crowd.
Do you think he cares about Penn Basketball?
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
06-08-16 01:59 PM - Post#207486    

Desrosiers to Princeton, tweeted out a little bit ago.

Jeff, can I have $3 since we didn't win?
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
06-08-16 02:41 PM - Post#207492    

DBCNATION
2017 G Kyle Copeland (Exeter) will visit UPenn this week.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
06-09-16 12:04 AM - Post#207511    

  • pennhoops Said:
Desrosiers to Princeton, tweeted out a little bit ago.

Jeff, can I have $3 since we didn't win?



That's disappointing. We were pretty high on him earlier, no?
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
06-09-16 11:35 AM - Post#207530    

Forget that, phoops, send me some money for ruining my day. Why not also tell me my wife left me for my rival at work?

Stupid Robinson.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
06-10-16 12:14 PM - Post#207555    

And Yale just got a three star dude who had an offer from Mizzou.

I'll Venmo you my 403(b).
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
06-10-16 09:27 PM - Post#207561    

Ugh.... And can't emphasize this enough... UGH
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
06-15-16 10:32 PM - Post#207698    

Adam Zagoria
2017 St. Pat's SG Jamir Harris will take unofficials to
Jun 16th - Boston College
Jun 20th - UPENN
Jun 27th - Minnesota

Consensus 3* (ESPN has him as a 4*)

Julius Kim
#Michigan, #UPenn, & #Drexel has now reached out to the 2018 forward Jake Forrester.

Same team as the aforementioned Walter Whyte (and also Mo Bamba).
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
06-16-16 09:48 AM - Post#207706    

Little more on Harris: http://endlessmotor.net/2016/05/27/getting-to -know...
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
06-16-16 11:57 AM - Post#207718    

$7
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
06-16-16 01:22 PM - Post#207719    


It's not that I don't appreciate the posts but can we get real here? Is there anyone who thinks this staff has a shot at landing this kid? Was the national championship mention a red flag to anyone?
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
06-16-16 01:40 PM - Post#207722    

I think your skepticism, in general, is well-placed.

My thinking remains the same as it was in March: Penn is obviously behind Harvard and Yale and they appear to me to be losing regularly to Princeton.

I found yesterday's relative inactivity particularly disheartening. It was the first day teams could contact 2018s and that is usually met with a bunch of recruiting news. There was nothing I could find on Penn outside of the two tweets I posted. Even the wonderful, reliable CoBL had no Penn info to report.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
06-16-16 01:40 PM - Post#207723    

Well, he's taking an unofficial, and he listed the offer. So the staff has made it some of the distance on this one. As of now, his high major offers aren't from spots that have much of a shot at a national championship, either, so I don't think that statement necessarily leaves us out (for now).

Perhaps most important, this is how Harvard started the road to recruiting higher level players. The first step is getting in the conversation with big time recruits. If you keep doing it, eventually it doesn't stick out as much that an Ivy school is in that list of finalists. And then you get one. And then a couple years down the line, you get four guys at that level. Or at least that's the idea.

So, while I ultimately agree with you that the odds are slim on this one, the fact that we are in the conversation strikes me as a good thing, and worth talking about.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
06-16-16 05:59 PM - Post#207729    

To be fair, Harvard, Princeton and Yale are all recruiting like top mid-major programs or high-major programs now. It was concerning when Penn was losing kids to schools not in that top 3, because that was a sign that the Quakers had declined versus just not answering the bell as other programs vaulted ahead.

Now the next step is to compete in that 3/4-star space and win some commitments. AJ Brodeur was a big one. And SomeGuy is right... the next step is to build to multiple in a season, then to push toward some Top 100 kids, and so on.

I do think the overall success of the league makes this easier. For instance, Bryce Aiken from St. Pat's went to Harvard, so does that make the Ivy League a more attractive destination for his teammates, especially younger ones who might look up to him... quite possibly.

It's important that Penn do well in 2017, and I wouldn't necessarily assume that the absence of news is a signal that the Quakers won't.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
06-17-16 10:06 AM - Post#207732    

  • mrjames Said:
It's important that Penn do well in 2017, and I wouldn't necessarily assume that the absence of news is a signal that the Quakers won't.



Great, our optimism is based on the impossibility of disproving a negative. With as much information about interest and offers being as available as it is now and absolutely nothing of note coming out of Penn, it's very easy to start seeing Brodeur as a one-off. Of course there's time for that to change but in a recruiting cycle and a half, Donahue hasn't demonstrated he can outdo anyone much above the MAAC.

And, Mike, to allude to your tweet about high level recruiting not just being Harvard, it's true, but a completely stratified Ivy suits you fine. If HYP schedule and recruit like top 100 Pomeroy teams, all you need is the remaining five to churn up a decent fourth place team (at the top of its cycle) and the bottom-dwellers to stay out of the 300s. It's a limited, strategically beneficial rising tide.

Jeff, I won't bring up the guy who just committed to Harvard. I'd probably be up to owing you $8 or $9, and my kids need to eat this weekend.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
06-17-16 11:33 AM - Post#207741    

I've been consistently on the record saying that my number one goal is that this is a Top 10 league nationally. You don't get there by having three good teams, one top-of-cycle rotating fourth team and four bad teams. The league needs to be good top-to-bottom, and that is what I root for most.

I can't control whether or not people believe that or try to paint me as a Harvard homer (Just ask my Yale friends who I watched the Yale-Baylor game with and was going close to the craziest of all of them). At my core, I'd much rather have Harvard sweat out a Selection Sunday as a serious at-large hopeful than to have it win a league in the 20s and await its 2- or 3-seed R64 opponent. I have little interest in the latter.

I view the present situation as fluid, not static. Penn is undergoing a recruiting transition that will have it fishing entirely in the same pond as HYP rather shortly. I see some other programs contemplating making the investment to rise to that level as well. We may reach another static point, like we had for the first 25 years of the AI era, but my presumption is that it will involve a majority of the league being very good and maybe a few teams lagging behind consistently. I don't foresee an era of mere HYP hegemony developing here. Other programs want into that top tier and have the resources to do it.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 847
06-17-16 11:48 AM - Post#207742    

Your lips to God's ear.
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12480
06-17-16 12:35 PM - Post#207745    

  • mrjames Said:
I view the present situation as fluid, not static. Penn is undergoing a recruiting transition that will have it fishing entirely in the same pond as HYP rather shortly. I see some other programs contemplating making the investment to rise to that level as well.



Is this something more than we know about? When you say "investment," is there something I'm missing? Are you just referencing recruiting tactics as you see them unfolding or something else?

Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
06-17-16 01:08 PM - Post#207748    


While the analysis is impressive the results remain abysmal. And with all due respect to you SG, if being one of many on a kid's list of prospective suitors is what passes as positive news for this program, how much worse can it get?
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
06-17-16 01:18 PM - Post#207751    

  • mrjames Said:
I view the present situation as fluid, not static. Penn is undergoing a recruiting transition that will have it fishing entirely in the same pond as HYP rather shortly. I see some other programs contemplating making the investment to rise to that level as well. We may reach another static point, like we had for the first 25 years of the AI era, but my presumption is that it will involve a majority of the league being very good and maybe a few teams lagging behind consistently. I don't foresee an era of mere HYP hegemony developing here. Other programs want into that top tier and have the resources to do it.



It's hard to tell if this is based on optimistic philosophy or tangible inside information. You're in possession of both so I don't quite know how to respond.

Nothing I said was an implicit or explicit accusation of Harvard homerism. I suppose if anything the worst thing I can lob at you is calling you an apologist for a trickle-down talent allocation (which just happens to have Harvard at the top). The top of the league is unquestionably going places it hasn't been before and there are higher peaks for the cycling middle. But your semi-cryptic statements aside, the top is doing far better than everyone else. All the available evidence suggests the league is turning into two classes with a rapidly growing gulf between the two.

SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
06-17-16 02:36 PM - Post#207760    

Well, a quick look at verbal commits paints a positive picture for 2017 in terms of a who we are involved with. 6 of the 13 kids listed are 3 or 4 star recruits. Harris would make 7. The first step is actually pursuing these types of players.

I take PennPal's point that being on somebody's list isn't much in the way of good news. However, getting involved with higher level players is an important first step. I'm glad we're doing it. I'll be a whole lot gladder if/when we land another one to go with Brodeur.
SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts 1150
06-17-16 05:52 PM - Post#207761    

Never mind God - how about to Amy's ears?
section110
Masters Student
Posts 847
06-17-16 05:54 PM - Post#207762    

Those too.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
06-18-16 12:25 AM - Post#207767    

  • Penn pal Said:

While the analysis is impressive the results remain abysmal. And with all due respect to you SG, if being one of many on a kid's list of prospective suitors is what passes as positive news for this program, how much worse can it get?




It can get a lot worse. See Cornell and maybe even Dartmouth.


PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
06-18-16 12:33 AM - Post#207768    

  • pennhoops Said:
The top of the league is unquestionably going places it hasn't been before and there are higher peaks for the cycling middle. But your semi-cryptic statements aside, the top is doing far better than everyone else. All the available evidence suggests the league is turning into two classes with a rapidly growing gulf between the two.




You are able to determine a "never been before" future for some teams but you can't say Penn may be doing things/going places similarly (albeit a few years later)?

And does "all available evidence" include a 4th place finish for Harvard last year? Or one Ivy title in umpteen years for Yale?

I find Mr James analysis at the least rationale if not scientific, even when I don't agree with it. There is no real reason Penn can't be as successful or more so than any of the other teams in the A8. I don't know that they will be as successful anytime soon, but I certainly can't say emphatically that they won't.

Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
06-18-16 12:21 PM - Post#207770    


And what does that tell you? We're dragging the bottom my friend if that's all we can see below us. And I'm not seven sure we're better than them. But then that's what a safe pick coach with a losing record and no recruiting success to speak of on his resume gets you these days.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
06-18-16 06:23 PM - Post#207775    

I'm not going to lie... Im definitely more in the camp of pennhoops and Penn Pal, but something sort of positive to share:

https://makeplayz.com/eddie-scott-holds-20- offers-...

Eddie Scott (3* guard) mentions us first when talking about colleges recruiting him the hardest. Even though the list is in no particular order at least we are mentioned in top group. Doesn't mean much but we've got a chance.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
06-18-16 07:11 PM - Post#207776    

Why so negative in mid June. To be brutally frank the kid Princeton got got less PT as the season progressed. I watched a lot of NMH games. Not saying he's not a decent player, but he's no Lebron James
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
06-18-16 09:26 PM - Post#207777    


I'd settle for Etta James at this point.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
06-18-16 11:57 PM - Post#207779    

Personally, I think Donahue had a better chance of recruiting in the deep end than any of the other reasonable candidates. We took our shot at the lightening in the bottle approach with Allen. I think we have a much more professional vibe going now that hopefully increases our chances of getting some bigger time recruits. I' m hopeful. At the very least, I'd encourage you to give the coach a bit of time. The fact that it hasn't turned around yet is more a reflection of what has gone on over the last 10 years than it is a reflection of Donahue.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
06-19-16 09:14 AM - Post#207780    

So when Donahue finally lands a big time recruit, you'll be crooning "At Last?"
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
06-19-16 11:16 AM - Post#207782    


Brilliant minds my friend.
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
06-19-16 11:22 AM - Post#207783    



Fair enough SG. But like waiting for the Eagles to win something while rebuilding, again, and suffering through the Sam Hinkie reign of error, I'm not getting any younger and time is a precious commodity.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
06-19-16 10:10 PM - Post#207787    

  • Penn pal Said:


Fair enough SG. But like waiting for the Eagles to win something while rebuilding, again, and suffering through the Sam Hinkie reign of error, I'm not getting any younger and time is a precious commodity.



You would be an embarrassing Cubs fan.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
06-20-16 09:25 AM - Post#207796    

  • PennFan10 Said:
You would be an embarrassing Cubs fan.



Every Cubs fan is an embarrassment.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
06-20-16 09:47 AM - Post#207798    

Do explain.

  • pennhoops Said:
  • PennFan10 Said:
You would be an embarrassing Cubs fan.



Every Cubs fan is an embarrassment.



Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
06-20-16 10:29 AM - Post#207799    

Oh god, not this. We finally have a board that's talking Penn basketball. Let's leave this thread for reading more about other teams winning the players we were recruiting and go to the off topic board for baseball stuff.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
06-20-16 10:36 AM - Post#207800    

Sorry. You guys can, and probably will, win 130 games this year and the next and the next, but the area bounded by Irving Park, Diversey, the Drive, and Ashland is a Fukushima of rotted humanity.
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
06-20-16 12:58 PM - Post#207809    


My bad Jeff. I guess I left that opening with my whiny analogy.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
06-21-16 06:47 PM - Post#207872    

  • Jeff2sf Said:
Oh god, not this. We finally have a board that's talking Penn basketball. Let's leave this thread for reading more about other teams winning the players we were recruiting and go to the off topic board for baseball stuff.



Take some Prozac my friend. The analogy is pretty simple. Most of the folks on here wouldn't recognize a program on the rise from a 100 plus year championship drought. You can't change a culture and turn a program around that has been bad for years in 12 months. This staff is doing the right things and talking to the right recruits.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
06-22-16 10:03 AM - Post#207884    

Actually, I'd wager that the majority of the people on this board do remember a winning program, and its the desperate (delusional?) hope of a return to that that keeps them/us here. What any of that has to do with antidepressants is way beyond me.

I'll try to limit my posts to tweets of offers to highly regarded NMH kids who'll inevitably reject us - but I also refuse to pass up a chance to bash the Cubs whenever possible.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
06-22-16 11:29 PM - Post#207895    

Chris hemphill
6'6 2017 David Caraher will be taking unofficial visits to Penn & Delaware this weekend.

Consensus 3*, decommitted from Butler last week

pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
06-23-16 09:56 AM - Post#207899    

  • besnoah Said:
Chris hemphill
6'6 2017 David Caraher will be taking unofficial visits to Penn & Delaware this weekend.

Consensus 3*, decommitted from Butler last week




Looking over some Butler boards it sounds like he decommitted last summer (or possibly had his offer pulled). Since then he's been getting attention from most Ivies, places like Richmond, Longwood, Rutgers, and some Big East teams sniffing around as well.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
06-23-16 10:38 AM - Post#207900    

Yup, going back to check my work, I confused 6/13/15 for 6/13/16 because time is a flat circle.
91Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1124
06-26-16 10:11 PM - Post#207958    

Per Pat Lawless:

Brandon Horvath, a class of 2017 wing playing for Baltimore United (MD), has received an offer from the University of Pennsylvania.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
07-12-16 02:34 PM - Post#208262    

PSB Select
17U Elite player Ryan Schwieger has now been offered by Penn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAtafTRfWGw

Penn also had coaches at the PSA Cardinals- CIA Bounce game:

https://twitter.com/RoushKSR/status/75107 311281340...

Walter Whyte and Najja Hunter are on PSA Cardinals and were both offered by Penn. Mo Bamba, looming Harvard 5*, is also on PSA Cardinals. CIA Bounce includes the recently offered Danilo Djuricic.

Here's the box score from that game: http://www.d1circuit.com/game/show/14464674?su bsea...
nychoops
Junior
Posts 239
07-13-16 08:29 AM - Post#208272    

Mo Bamba is not going to Harvard
Penn7277
PhD Student
Posts 1365
07-13-16 10:01 AM - Post#208274    

Where then?
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
07-13-16 01:02 PM - Post#208278    

I'll take the over on 0%...
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
07-13-16 01:55 PM - Post#208280    

There are three people who still frequent these boards who I wouldn't bet against. NYCHoops is one of them.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
07-13-16 02:23 PM - Post#208283    

Completely agree. That being said, the odds aren't 0.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
07-13-16 03:18 PM - Post#208285    

I know nothing about the situation but am happy to have him as my tout.
nychoops
Junior
Posts 239
07-13-16 07:23 PM - Post#208296    

mrjames is a great read, obviously well informed and completely pragmatic in every post I've ever read of his....however in this one and likely only one instance I happen to disagree and know he will be passing on Harvard
HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts 2685
07-13-16 07:48 PM - Post#208297    

Any prognostication on Wendell Carter? Looks like KY is conceding to Duke, but Carter still mentions Harvard and Georgia and has a September visit scheduled to Cambridge.
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
07-13-16 09:54 PM - Post#208303    


This is beyond sad. When did this thread become about Harvard recruits?
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
07-14-16 09:05 AM - Post#208324    

Jeez, Penn Pal, so picky. I figured it was just nice to read about some OTHER ivy losing out on a prospect.
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
07-14-16 11:09 AM - Post#208330    

I agree with Penn Pal. We keep on hitting new lows.

It is making me feel very old. I was a student while Weihauer was the coach and the Final 4 run was a fresh memory. It has been a decade since we've sniffed the dance with no end of the drought in sight. And now I gotta yell at some other team's fans to get off my lawn?

Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
07-14-16 11:35 AM - Post#208332    

i'm not actually disagreeing with PP, just lamenting our lot in life
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
07-14-16 01:33 PM - Post#208342    

It's a long and silly process. I think there's room for digression in the thread. (If we're still talking about mostly Harvard recruits here by October I guess we can start the Fire Donahue thread then.)
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
07-14-16 01:54 PM - Post#208343    


Trust me Jeff I caught your drift. And heck TL I remember when the only reason to care about Harvard basketball was that Satch Sanders was their coach. And that had nothing to do with Harvard. Now we have to listen to them quibble over their potential recruits? What the hell has happened to us? Get off my lawn!


penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
07-15-16 10:57 AM - Post#208383    

Who would you say is our last recruit that was somewhat of a coup, that at least one top rival wanted?
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
07-15-16 11:04 AM - Post#208385    

Brodeur.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
07-15-16 11:30 AM - Post#208388    

Before that?
nychoops
Junior
Posts 239
07-15-16 11:42 AM - Post#208389    

Sorry to go back to Harvard but to answer question no idea about Carter....only know Mo due to PSA...he will be cutting list to 10 shortly and Harvard may or may not make list but their is literally ZERO chance he ends up at Harvard ...and as much as I wish I was wrong thats not me speculating
91Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1124
07-15-16 11:48 AM - Post#208390    

so does penn have a legitimate shot with any of the PSA guys?
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
07-15-16 12:05 PM - Post#208393    

I mean, at this very moment there is zero chance he goes to Harvard, though I think we're talking about different reasons.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
07-15-16 12:05 PM - Post#208394    

  • penn nation Said:
Before that?



Mike might argue the chronology but I'd say Matt Howard.

penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
07-15-16 01:27 PM - Post#208401    

Interesting, although checking his Rivals profile there wasn't any interest from any other Ivy and no others offered.

But even allowing for Howard, that's a 3 year gap which is enormous.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
07-15-16 01:45 PM - Post#208404    

Harvard had offered but decided to go in a different direction, as they say.
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
07-15-16 02:02 PM - Post#208407    


Without getting your britches Ina bunch, is there anyone here who honestly thought the caliber of recruits got commitments from was going to improve when this coach was hired. And if so please explain why?
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
07-15-16 02:51 PM - Post#208415    

My expectation is that Penn can be as successful recruiting as Columbia.

Which isn't so different from what Donahue accomplished at Cornell though in a much weaker league than the Ivies are now.

penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
07-15-16 03:12 PM - Post#208418    

The main thing is to reduce those multiyear gaps to a minimum. Plus, don't forget the increased emphasis on transfers...we'll have to see how our initial one looks this fall.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
07-15-16 03:38 PM - Post#208422    

We have two. Caleb Wood has been added to the roster
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
07-15-16 04:22 PM - Post#208427    

Matt Howard is a tricky case. Depends which side you're arguing. It's much like Brodeur. Harvard wanted both guys, but just couldn't take either when they wanted to commit. Credit Penn for being able to move faster. But holding spots worked out for Harvard one of those two times.
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
07-15-16 05:06 PM - Post#208428    


So that was the intention of the "search committee" TL? To match Columbia?




TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
07-15-16 05:34 PM - Post#208430    

I'm just saying that it seems to be the aspiration.

Funny thing is it would be an improvement over the last 10 years and will still mean getting outrecruited by HYP.


nychoops
Junior
Posts 239
07-15-16 10:14 PM - Post#208435    

Penn is very interested in 2 of the PSA players(I'm sure they are interested in ALL the players but realistically these two).....Both kids would be very nice additions and represent a talent upgrade......the interest is mutual however both will have "higher" offers and as of now no decisions are imminent nor are they leaning in any direction
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-15-16 11:55 PM - Post#208437    

  • Penn pal Said:

Without getting your britches Ina bunch, is there anyone here who honestly thought the caliber of recruits got commitments from was going to improve when this coach was hired. And if so please explain why?



Yes I expect(ed) it. Because there isn't another coach in the IL that has taken a team to the sweet 16, and because Penn has the best facilities in the IL, and because SD runs a system that has been and can be successful in the IL, and because the school is clearly spending more money now than they previously were (though it needs to continue), and because other IL schools who have much less history than Penn have been able to do it, and the league is better but the coach is too (in theory). All those reasons at least.


SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
07-16-16 12:11 AM - Post#208438    

I absolutely expect the recruiting to improve (I think it has already). Unfortunately, some of that is related to where the recruiting had fallen to under the last two coaches. But I think Donahue is a pretty dynamic guy who has made the Sweet Sixteen (at a harder school to win at) and been the head guy at a major conference school. I've always been very impressed with him, again, much moreso than the last two coaches. Perhaps most important is the fact that we have a more professional operation now. The prior regime was getting out recruited in terms of pure talent, but they were also getting out recruited because they didn't seem to have a plan. I'm pretty confident that, even if Donahue doen't improve the talent level (and I think he will), he will improve the cohesiveness of what he brings in.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
07-17-16 09:44 PM - Post#208504    

Eli Brooks was offered tonight by Villanova. So he's probably off the table.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-18-16 10:48 AM - Post#208508    




‏@PSBselect
17U Elite player @ryanschwieger has now been offered by Penn.
Penn90
Masters Student
Posts 570
Penn90
07-19-16 01:46 PM - Post#208579    

Here's an update on a kid from DC that Penn is interested in. Seems to be blowing up.
Leges sine moribus vanae

besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
07-19-16 09:34 PM - Post#208621    

Nice article, thanks for sharing. Wonder if his decision will have any impact on Eddie Scott or vice versa.
20Penn14
Senior
Posts 364
07-19-16 09:47 PM - Post#208622    

Eli Brooks to Michigan
http://www.cityofbasketballlove.com/news_article/s...
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
07-19-16 09:58 PM - Post#208623    


This has to be the most depressing thread I can recall in this site's existence. At least as far as it pertains to Penn basketball. The topic titled 2017 Recruit began on March 3rd. I think we've offered everyone short of Billy the hot dog vendor outside the Palestra. We're still waiting for a commitment.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
07-19-16 10:04 PM - Post#208624    

It's like you don't even remember Jordan Salzman.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
07-19-16 10:19 PM - Post#208625    

Another clip:

Walter Whyte is looking to cut his list to 10. Penn is mentioned:

https://www.sny.tv/college-recruiting/new s/walter-...


PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-19-16 10:23 PM - Post#208626    

Billy the hot dog vendor can sling it!
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
07-19-16 10:47 PM - Post#208628    

I wonder if he's Willard's grandnephew:

Willard Whyte
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
07-20-16 09:55 AM - Post#208657    


Of course we are.
nychoops
Junior
Posts 239
07-20-16 02:57 PM - Post#208714    

Whyte is a terrific player, great kid and Penn is def on his radar
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
07-20-16 09:41 PM - Post#208738    


That's just the point, we're on everyone's radar it's just that no one is landing.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
07-21-16 09:45 AM - Post#208748    

That's how it starts. Get on everybody's radar (and make it very public). Hang out in grocery stores. Send a couple of assistant coaches you haven't technically hired yet to go play in some pickup games with high school kids. Before you know it, you've got a top 25 recruiting class in the country.
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
07-21-16 03:08 PM - Post#208776    


Or you can hire your safe pick who has never recruited anyone of significance and let him hire assistants with similar resumes and find your self fighting for relevance in a league that you once owned.
I know you're a glass half full guy SG
and I realize you were being sarcastic, which I for certainly appreciate. But the thing you're referencing is getting old. Check that. It's old. And no one cares but the old farts here who keep it going to somehow make their selves feel better about getting our butts handed to us.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
07-21-16 03:24 PM - Post#208778    

PP, he wouldn't have been my selection either, but you have to give him a chance. You will have plenty of chances to tell us you told us so from the beginning, but you really have to let him have a few recruiting classes first.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
07-21-16 04:08 PM - Post#208782    

I know we've been around this debate before, but I'll take another crack at it. I think Donahue is the closest we could come to an Amaker. He has the Sweet 16 experience competing in our league, he has the big (or at least bigger) conference experience at BC, and he has the Philly/Penn experience. I think those things give him a chance to land some of these bigger recruits -- as good a chance as we can rationally expect from attainable hires.

So I liked the Donahue hire, and I still like it one year in. Neither of the last two hires were the guys I'd have picked, for whatever that is worth. Hopefully we got it right this time.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
07-21-16 04:21 PM - Post#208783    

Without changing the theme (Donahue must be given a chance), I think the comparison with Amaker is ludicrous. Amaker had a Big Time recruiting pipeline and had been let go for winning only high teens and low 20s at Michigan. Donahue simply failed at BC and lost 20 games. Amaker was a success in the Big East---Donahue in the Ivies.

And I think Miller was a better hire than Donahue (albeit it clearly did not work). He was an up and coming young coach who was an assistant to a national contender and a big time winner in Div. 3. He then had Brown at the highest level they ever had been. He then recruited players at Penn who were good enough to have won a couple of titles had the situation not blown up.

Compare Miller's first recruiting class to Donahue's here and tell me that Donahue's was as good...Bernardini, Eggleston, Gaines, Monckton, Cofield and Turley. Do you see nearly as much talent in this class? And then he got Rosen and Belcore in the next class.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
07-21-16 04:35 PM - Post#208784    

  • palestra38 Said:

Compare Miller's first recruiting class to Donahue's here and tell me that Donahue's was as good...Bernardini, Eggleston, Gaines, Monckton, Cofield and Turley. Do you see nearly as much talent in this class? And then he got Rosen and Belcore in the next class.



Donahue inherited a mess. Miller did not. Miller was in a far better position to recruit well in his first season than Donahue is even now.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
07-21-16 04:38 PM - Post#208786    

Setting aside how clearly that's not true (Woulda won titles, malarkey), how could you possibly compare the mess Donahue inherited from the sweet ride Miller did. There was no chance Donahue's first class could be as good as Miller's.

I'm fine with giving the guy time. but the phrase that keeps popping in my head for Steve is "hyper competent" or "aggressively adequate". I've no doubt he can restore us to 150ish team. I'm very skeptical he can get us to 50-100 which is where we need to be.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
07-21-16 04:42 PM - Post#208788    

Well, that's a debate we've had before too! I wasn't big on Miller's recruits at the time, and we debated it quite a bit. I thought they were one way players, which largely turned out to be the case. We'll see what happens with Brodeur -- he certainly is a much, much higher level recruit than Eggleston was (or any of the other guys, frankly, but Eggleston is the one who played his position). Of course, that's just recruiting interest -- how it works out on the court remains to be seen.

As for hiring Miller, I didn't like it at the time, for various reasons (admittedly, I probably didn't say it a lot on the board at the time, because, as you point out with Donahue, I'm a Penn fan and I wanted to give Miller every chance to succeed). However, in general I don't want to hire a head coach from below our level unless he is clearly going places. Miller had a lot of time at Brown, and while he was the most successful coach in their history, he didn't really come particularly close to winning a title. To me, that wasn't good enough to justify hiring a guy in conference, which is a little problematic in and of itself.

I would much rather hire an assistant from a bigger program than hire anybody who ended up on our list that year (Taylor, Miller, or Donahue). Donahue became a much better candidate after the time of that hire -- at the time, he had the same problems as Miller, although I think his personality and approach would have been better suited to not imploding if the boat took on some water.

I'm still generally inclined to go the assistant route, but Donahue last year (with the additions to his resume from what it was in '06) had enough to where I think he was the best candidate (PennPal would probably say the safest candidate).
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
07-21-16 04:47 PM - Post#208790    

Miller inherited exactly one player who would contribute after that first year and he came in too late to recruit for the '06-'07 season. So he coached the championship and then had Grandieri. That is not a good situation. I love Fran, but he had given up recruiting at Penn 2 years earlier.

Let me add that there were big name coaches out there last year looking for a job who would have taken Amaker money to coach at Penn. We just had no intention to pay Amaker money--and that's what it all came down to.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
07-21-16 05:03 PM - Post#208799    

Welcome back, Harrison! If you had him UNDER +/- 6 months since the last time P38 mentioned him, you're a winner (2/16)...

  • palestra38 Said:

Compare Miller's first recruiting class to Donahue's here and tell me that Donahue's was as good...Bernardini, Eggleston, Gaines, Monckton, Cofield and Turley. Do you see nearly as much talent in this class? And then he got Rosen and Belcore in the next class.



Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
07-21-16 05:44 PM - Post#208803    

It's not really about the players (And it's so weird to gloss over a gift wrapped Ivy championship your first year), but rather the situation. Donahue is recruiting players who were between 6 and 8 the last time we were good. It's much much harder. I thought you MIGHT use the argument that the 2006 team was too good to recruit onto, but blessedly you didn't use that. So if they both had tons of opportunity to play for, which one would you rather go to? A team coming off 3 Ivy champs or a team coming off 3 years in the bottom 100?
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
07-22-16 10:46 AM - Post#208820    

I don't know if it was easier for Miller to recruit for a team that almost was a new program or for Donahue, who had a record of success in the league. But my opinion of Miller is also influenced by his amazing success as Associate Head Coach at U Conn. The guy simply can coach----it just didn't work out here.
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
07-22-16 10:57 AM - Post#208821    

Defending Miller isn't a winning hand. The reason we're on our present path has a lot to do with Glen Miller.

Miller is good at drawing up offensive plays. That's where his coaching skills end.

He had a player revolt 8 games into a season. He was then replaced by Allen, who was clearly an improvement. Are you also saying Allen was a good coach?

palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
07-22-16 11:22 AM - Post#208827    

Miller did indeed have a personality issue that, when his team suffered critical injuries and he was under attack internally from people who never wanted him as a coach in the first instance, he suffered what appears to have been a nervous breakdown. He clearly had to go.

The assistants he left behind coached the team, not Jerome, who neither was ready to be a coach, nor does he appear to have interest in doing what makes someone a good coach. And for your argument that Miller only knows offense, did UConn not play defense? Miller is light years better than Allen. And his hiring was not a poor choice for that time. Allen's was unforgiveable and done simply to lessen the pressure on Bilsky, who then managed to resign before the error would fall on him.
The Pine
Freshman
Posts 61
07-22-16 04:07 PM - Post#208877    

Please give SD a chance. Amaker took a few years to turn Harvard around. Jones has done arguably little in 20 years championshipwise. Steve inherited a messy situation while Miller (who was far too small for the position and its expectations) got a championship caliber program and its reputation.

Look, we all would like a trophy this year, but SD is going to need 4 years if not more. The Ivy of the 80s and 90s is gone forever. This is our new reality. Be patient.
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3988
07-22-16 05:15 PM - Post#208887    

  • SomeGuy Said:

However, in general I don't want to hire a head coach from below our level unless he is clearly going places. Miller had a lot of time at Brown, and while he was the most successful coach in their history, he didn't really come particularly close to winning a title.



SG, Miller was 12-2 in the league in'02-'03, and 10-4 in '03-'04. Second place in both years and records that have won the title in other years.
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
07-22-16 05:32 PM - Post#208891    


Four years for what? To win a championship or to land a recruit? And did last year count?

With such glowing credentials and all the other aforementioned recruiting advantages, that oughta be a cinch.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
07-23-16 12:35 AM - Post#208909    

I guess I don't see the issue with the recruiting. He landed Brodeur, who is probably the highest rated recruit we've gotten since Ugonna. The rest of the guys seem more like standard Penn recruits (hopefully better system fits), though you seemed pretty high on Jerome and Betley at first. Not sure why you've soured before they even played a minute.

The chips are starting to fall for next year, and we haven't hit on a big one, but we've still got more than our share of the league's total commits so far.
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
07-23-16 11:52 AM - Post#208911    


God help us if Brodeur doesn't live up to the hype. It's been a year since his commitment. My goodness wouldn't you have expected at least one more high profile commit?
I wouldn't necessarily categorize my interest in Betley and Jerome as being "high" on them. I thought they were decent gets considering what we'd seen commit prior to them. Nice building blocks but certainly not game changing, potentially dominant at our level players which we sorely need.
We can "sign" as many people as we want but does it matter of they're not going to make a difference? I'm interested in quality not quantity SG.
20Penn14
Senior
Posts 364
07-23-16 01:12 PM - Post#208912    

Back to recruits

CTBballClub ‏@CTBballClub
@CTBballClub's Mike McGuirl received his 2nd offer of the day from Penn.

@VerbalCommits @AdamFinkelstein
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-23-16 05:00 PM - Post#208914    

No one in the IL has more than 2 commits for 2017. Penn has 2. The next 30 days is very important. This weekend is the last of the live evaluation periods where coaches can evaluate players for 2017 and start to look for 2018. August is dead and many 2017's take unofficials and make verbals in August/September. The top schools get some commitments earlier than this but for the most part, a lot of the commits come in August and September.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
07-25-16 10:46 AM - Post#208947    

man maybe i missed this but i really thought both commits were just AI filler. 5'10 and 7'3 both seem like they are in the wrong places underneath the height curve.
Penn90
Masters Student
Posts 570
Penn90
07-25-16 11:35 AM - Post#208950    

Meanwhile the rich could get richer.
Leges sine moribus vanae

palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
07-25-16 11:55 AM - Post#208954    

That is why I was yelling before Donahue was hired that Penn should spend the money Harvard is spending and go out and get a big time head coach. There were several on the market, and while I like and respect Steve Donahue, it is pretty clear that he will not be able to recruit on this level. You need to project a big time image in order to compete with Harvard, since that is what Harvard is doing.
Penn90
Masters Student
Posts 570
Penn90
07-25-16 12:09 PM - Post#208955    

Agreed. It just seems like men's hoops -- and athletics in general -- is not a priority for Gutmann.

By contrast, I think Harvard's board and president clearly decided to make the success of the men's hoops team a high priority for raising the school's stature, at least in the world of student athletics. So they spared no expense and found the right coach for their strategy.

In this sense, I think Donahue fits Penn's strategy all too well.
Leges sine moribus vanae

PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-25-16 01:20 PM - Post#208959    

  • palestra38 Said:
That is why I was yelling before Donahue was hired that Penn should spend the money Harvard is spending and go out and get a big time head coach. There were several on the market, and while I like and respect Steve Donahue, it is pretty clear that he will not be able to recruit on this level. You need to project a big time image in order to compete with Harvard, since that is what Harvard is doing.



I am sorry but Tommy Amaker, at the time of his hiring, was NOT a big time college coach. He was a great player from a great program and had average success as a college head coach. Harvard's success is not just because of Tommy Amaker. I would argue Amaker was not much more of a big time coach at the time of his hiring than Donahue was at his. Look at the posts about Amaker, there was a lot of ho-hum and "bad decision" posts to go along with the cautiously optimistic sentiment with his hiring.

Donahue's jury is still out. He has the facilities, tradition and pedigree to be successful in my view. Whether he has the administrations backing and the gravitas to attract high level talent we will see.



palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
07-25-16 02:13 PM - Post#208960    

You're simply and objectively wrong. From the NY Times 9/29/08 (after Amaker cut essentially Sullivan's entire last recruiting class), "In the Ivy League, whose universities do not offer athletic scholarships, Harvard’s hiring of Amaker after his dismissal at Michigan two years ago was seen as a sea change for the program. Harvard, which fired Coach Frank Sullivan, has never won an Ivy basketball title and has not reached the N.C.A.A. tournament since 1946. Amaker’s team went 8-22 last season. Under Amaker, Harvard has adopted a more aggressive approach to recruiting..."

Amaker coached a Big East team that was perennially an also ran (Seton Hall) to a Sweet 16, took Michigan right after a major scandal that had them on probation for 2 years and lost a good number of scholarships. He had to completely rebuild that program and was fired after winning 22 games. You cannot compare an Ivy coach who took a big step up to BC and was out in 3 years, with a Big East coach (and Coach K pedigree) who then took on one of the strongest athletic programs in the country on probation and was fired after winning 22 games. Especially now, after he has built the Harvard program from nothing to a national presence, he is considered a big time coach who is constantly rumored to be receiving offers (S. Carolina recently) from big time programs. As I said, I like Donahue as a coach but it is simply wrong to put him on the same level as an Amaker. A Howland would have been on the same level.

According to the Times, Amaker represented a "sea change" at Harvard at the time he was hired. Do you maintain that Donahue represented such a "sea change" at Penn"?
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-25-16 04:09 PM - Post#208972    

You can't argue about what Amaker has done at Harvard unless you want to wait 8 years and then compare it to Donahue. As I said, AT THE TIME OF THE HIRE, Amaker was NOT a big time college coach. That's objectively correct, depending on your definition.

He had a losing record in conference at Seton Hall. He finished 4th in the conference the year he went to the sweet 16 and had a team that got hot at the right time. He was 5-11 his last year there and 32-36 during his tenure.

At Michigan, he was 43-53 in Big Ten play, never made the NCAA tournament and the "22 win season" you raved about included the following:

Central Connecticut State W 60-40
Davidson W 78-68
Eastern Michigan W 80-51
Wisconsin-Milwaukee W 66-59
Harvard W 82-50
Youngstown State W 65-56
Maryland-Baltimore County W 66-54
at North Carolina State L 74-67
Wofford W 83-49
at Miami (OH) W 62-56
Delaware State W 70-43
Northern Illinois W 67-52

His last 3 years at Michigan he went 4-12, 8-8,8-8. He had 7 seasons after the probation to "build" the program. That's plenty of time to prove your worth. He was average as a coach at best when hired by Harvard. That's not my opinion, that's numerically a fact.

Look, I am not arguing Amaker isn't the real deal, what he has done at Harvard is nothing short of exceptional. But comparing him now to Donahue is ridiculous and looking at the two of them at the time of their hires, based on their track record, is much more reasonable and I think they are comparable. Donahue took a team to the sweet 16, he had quantifiable success in the Ivy league (78-62 record) and 24-44 in conference at BC.

We all hope Donahue will be as successful as Amaker has been at Harvard but to say definitively he will or won't at THIS point is as speculative as the folks on these same boards were when Amaker was hired. No one had a clue what he would do for Harvard. And we have no clue if Donahue will be successful at Penn yet either.

palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
07-25-16 04:47 PM - Post#208974    

Amaker took 2 programs that were either long time sad sacks (Seton Hall) or mired in scandal (Michigan) and did well considering the circumstances. He comes from a Coach K pedigree. So should I listen to the NY Times analysis at that time (he was a "sea change") or you, who is giving a highly revisionist view in which you do exactly what you criticize---you are looking back and trying to manufacture an argument that he was nothing special based on his record (and now, the competition) at Seton Hall and Michigan. Well, I'm telling you, and I have supported it, that EVERYONE knew that Amaker was a big time hire by Harvard AT THAT TIME. Your argument is simply preposterous and you can't cite anything to support that view except your own opinion, which is wrong. Moreover, Donahue was hired knowing that Amaker had had tremendous success and was being paid more than twice as much as Donahue got---so putting him in the same class as Amaker is also a preposterous argument. Who cares at this point what Amaker was when he was hired--we needed to compete with the Amaker who is there now, and we clearly did not try and do so. We needed to hire someone who could out-recruit Amaker. Do you honestly think Donahue is able to do that?
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-25-16 05:01 PM - Post#208976    

I don't know if Donahue can do that. The problem is no one short of Rick Pitino and John Calipari might be able to do that and those guys aren't coming to the Ivy League. Heck Amaker wouldn't have come if he had any kind of success at his previous two spots. No one wanted him.

As to your "everyone thought it was a big time hire" rhetoric. Here are some select quotes from "everyone" from these very boards:

  • 91Quake Said:
Looking at his rather mediocre coaching record the important question will ultimately be "Is he a good coach?" and I think the jury is still out on that one (but consider me a skeptic). He managed to get some highly praised and rated recruits at his last two stops and under achieve by anyone's measure.



  • Quote:
Was mentioned on ESPN radio this morning that the offer was made, with the comment along the lines of "how the mighty have fallen" that Amaker could only get an offer from Harvard.



  • mrjames Said:
While I am ridiculously excited about the hire, I am only cautiously optimistic about the future prospects.<br /><br />The following still needs to fall into place...admissions and Amaker figuring out the Ivy recruiting game, increased effort on the part of the ath. dept. in selling basketball, and a new arena fit for a college team. And this is still Harvard, mind you. No reason to believe that those things are now all going to fall into place too.



  • ShankarD Said:
Amaker is a poor choice. His Michigan teams -- none of which managed to make the NCAA tournament despite considerable, if not outstanding, individual talent* -- always looked poorly-coached. I do believe that coaches can learn and improve, and if he is hired, I hope he will, but his track record is quite weak. It is amazing that he was allowed to stay at Michigan for so long. <br /><br />Perhaps his name and pedigree will be sufficient to attract high-quality recruits, and the quality of those recruits will be sufficient to overcome his shortcomings as a coach. But it's not a gamble I'd want to take.<br /><br />*Amaker's recruiting ability is often overstated, perhaps due to the great class that he quickly assembled at Seton Hall (Eddie Griffin, Marcus Toney-El, Andre Bassett). He did recruit several quality top 50 kids, but more importantly, few of them bolted early to the NBA. So though he wasn't recruiting at the level of a Roy Williams or Lute Olsen, he benefited greatly from having talented juniors and seniors. Still, he was unable to mold them into even an NCAA tournament caliber team, much less anything more.



To be fair, there are plenty on here who praised the hiring of Amaker. But the point is, I am not making stuff up, this is the facts despite how you want to portray them now.

Can Donahue be an Amaker? I don't know. And NEITHER DO YOU. Let's wait and see.

Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3988
07-25-16 05:18 PM - Post#208977    

With the recruiting advantages Amaker has at Harvard, he doesn't need to be a great coach.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
07-25-16 05:23 PM - Post#208978    

At least you had the honesty of acknowledging that there were many who thought that Amaker was a game changer who would not have taken the job absent assurances that he would have administration support.

I'll leave it to others from here, because all we'll do is continue to make the same arguments, but I vehemently disagree that the hiring of Amaker was anything similar to the hiring of Donahue.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-25-16 05:42 PM - Post#208980    

The views were mixed on Amaker at the time. I think that's a fair assessment of Donahue. Ben Howland would have been a much bigger hire than Amaker because he was a much more successful basketball coach than Amaker. But so are lots of coaches that Penn and Harvard weren't going to compete to get.

Amaker had losing records in his conference at both pre-Harvard stops, and one sweet sixteen appearance. Donahue had a winning record at an Ivy league school (arguably the most difficult to win) and a losing record at BC, and one sweet sixteen appearance.

I vehemently stand behind the facts vs a NY Times writer whose opinion, I don't think, is great evidence of some prevailing truth I have missed.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
07-25-16 05:44 PM - Post#208981    

A couple of thoughts. Putting on my UofM hat for a moment (my other alma mater), I think a lot of fans thought less of him than Penn fans tend to think of Miller and Allen. Fans are emotional and often wrong, but I think the Michigan fan reaction to his hiring at Harvard was "good luck."

Is Donahue a game changer? I think that depends on your perspective. But we started hearing complaints from player families that we were running a Mickey Mouse program once Miller was in charge, and the lack of organization and professionalism seemed to get markedly worse under Allen. I don't think we have that problem now. Did we invest as much as Harvard did in Amaker? No, but I assume Steve is the highest paid coach in our history by a significant margin, and the 2nd highest paid in the conference by a similar amount. I suspect the salari s of the two are within shouting distance, but the add ons for the family, etc., are much better for Amaker.

I'm all in favor of spending more on the coach, but while that may have expanded our universe of choices a bit, my guess is that it wouldn't actually expand us to something better than Donahue. The rising tide is rising our boats, but this still isn't a league where coaches with lots of choices are going to be coming. You need the unusual circumstance that Amaker had where the move works for the whole family.

Anyway, those our my thoughts. I think we got the right guy to compete with Amaker, and I don't think anybody could have been going head to head for the same recruits and winning in year two. We'll see what happens as we go forwrd.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
07-25-16 07:41 PM - Post#208983    

From what I understand, Donahue is making about the same as what Dunphy was making when he left in salary and a lot less when you consider Dunphy's retirement plan.

I agree that he is far more professional than his predecessors. I agree that he is a real coach, unlike Allen and can diagram plays that work and plot strategy that, given his ability to recruit, can win games.

But we needed more to compete with Harvard. If the goal is not to compete with Harvard but simply be more competitive than we were, great choice.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
07-25-16 08:11 PM - Post#208987    

The thing about Harvard at the time is that hiring Donahue (this version) would definitely also have been viewed as a "sea change".


besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
07-25-16 08:17 PM - Post#208988    

Sorry to interrupt a re-litigation of the coaching hire, but here's another '17 offer:

Pat Lawless
St. Bonaventure and UPenn have offered '17 guard Gabe Steffani from Shoreshots Pooley (NJ).
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
07-25-16 08:53 PM - Post#208990    

Two points:

1) It doesn't really matter how Amaker '07 and Donahue '15 compare. Penn was hiring against Amaker '15 not Amaker '07.

2) But... Amaker '07 was a ridiculously more well-known name/higher profile candidate than Donahue '15. How is this even a question? He brought in a #2 recruiting class nationally at Seton Hall and had several teams at Michigan in the at large zone of the Pomeroy Ratings. Aside from the year he got to use Al's kids, Steve's 3 other BC teams were disasters. That Amaker missed the tourney every year at Michigan is a fun fact (and tremendously lucky for Harvard) but at least many of his teams were objectively as good or better than other at large teams. Steve didn't come anywhere close to sniffing the tourney except with Al's kids.

Penn could have done a lot, lot worse than Steve, but Amaker was a home run from the start. The two aren't remotely comparable.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
07-25-16 09:18 PM - Post#208991    

Thank you for your recitation of the obvious. It's difficult being the voice of rationality--I have so little practice at it.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-25-16 09:38 PM - Post#208992    

Ok I can agree that Amaker sucked less at Michigan than SD at BC. But we aren't comparing BC to Michigan and Seton Hall without including Cornell are we? Amaker had losing records in his conference at both places. That his losing wasn't as bad as Donahue's at BC only is some serious revisionist history.


mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
07-25-16 09:57 PM - Post#208993    

Amaker's Michigan Pomeroy ranks (after year one):
58
35
133
31
58

Steve's BC Pomeroy ranks (after year one):
264
96
138

While I understand the impulse to say you either made the NCAA or you were garbage, I assure you there are more layers than just that one. Many of Amaker's Michigan teams were competitive for NCAA bids. Steve's BC teams were often competitive for the title of worst power conference team in America. Bringing Seton Hall and Cornell into this would only make things worse for Steve.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
07-25-16 11:18 PM - Post#208995    

Scott Burgess
The offer train continues to roll along for Conant PG Jimmy Sotos as #Penn has offered!
UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts 1117
UPIA1968
07-25-16 11:35 PM - Post#208996    

The Harvard football program has a good stadium, a fine coach, strong support from the school and alumni and the ever lasting Harvard recruiting advantage. Sure enough they have won seven (counting ties) championships this century. And yet I stood in the Franklin Field stands last November and cheered when Penn also won its SEVENTH championship over the same time frame.

I remind you also that Princeton, also one of the big three Ivies has always emphasized basketball. Yet poor, disadvantage Penn has easily held their own on the hardwoods.

Sure, Harvard, Princeton and Yale have funding and recruiting advantages. And the Yankees are richer than any other baseball team. Should the Red Sox or the Quackers just mail in their scores having no chance from success against advantages? But the facts say that Penn and the Sox have competed quite successfully in B-ball and football. So let's concentrate on the results over the next several years rather than arguing endlessly about the theoretical reasons why Harvard has to win every year. Penn has sucked due to a run of injuries and absurdly bad coaching. That can and, apparently is being fixed. Yea, Harvard will be much better this year, but so I think Penn also will be. Can Penn compete for a championship this year? Mike James will soon remind us that they almost certainly will not. But could a competent team with every important player but one returning, plus the addition of a promising, mature seven footer, compete in 2017-2018? Could be?
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-26-16 12:39 AM - Post#208997    

  • mrjames Said:
Amaker's Michigan Pomeroy ranks (after year one):
58
35
133
31
58

Steve's BC Pomeroy ranks (after year one):
264
96
138

While I understand the impulse to say you either made the NCAA or you were garbage, I assure you there are more layers than just that one. Many of Amaker's Michigan teams were competitive for NCAA bids. Steve's BC teams were often competitive for the title of worst power conference team in America. Bringing Seton Hall and Cornell into this would only make things worse for Steve.



And these rankings are simply a product of the coach? They have nothing to do with the fact that Michigan is and should be a top 15 school (which Amaker never sniffed) and BC is actually one of the worst schools in a power conference at which to coach(and Donahue sucked more than Amaker did)?

What has been Michigan's Pomeroy rank since Amaker has left?

If I remember Amaker did get fired from Michigan right? The guy has lightning in a bottle at Harvard but he didn't do it alone. He has many, many advantages in his current setting. He was average at Michigan and average at Seton Hall. Color however you want with stats. He was at a better school than SD. He has been great at Harvard. We don't know, despite P38's crystal ball, how Penn will turn out under SD. I for one will give him the benefit of the doubt.




Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
07-26-16 01:14 AM - Post#208998    

P38, Seton Hall wasn't always one of the worst programs before Amaker. They made a FINAL FOUR under PJ Carlesimo sometime around 88 or 89, and I would say that they usually had very good teams under his watch. They weren't always the strongest in conference or national rank, but you have to remember that the Big East was such a beast of a conference back in those days. I agree that Amaker did a fine job there (which was his springboard to Michigan) and that it is not the easiest place to succeed. His performance at Seton Hall was NOT unprecedented.

On the other hand, bringing Cornell to a Sweet 16? How is this not a massive coaching accomplishment? Would ANYONE of us have predicted that possibility in the 30 years before it happened and can anyone see it happening ever again? While Donahue's record was mixed, I would consider Cornell a much harder program to coach to a Sweet 16 than Seton Hall.

That said, I would agree that Amaker was higher profile than Donahue. Most basketball fans knew something about Amaker's history as a player and coach. Not nearly as many would have known much about Donahue. I personally don't think the pre-hire profile of new coaches in the Ivy League will be the best predictor of success.

Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
07-26-16 02:28 AM - Post#208999    

What makes me sad about this thread is that I pop on, see a bunch of new responses and think "maybe we actually got a new recruit and damn I hope it's a good one."

Then I read 15 more posts about Harvard recruiting and Amaker with a splash of 2 more Penn offers...

::UGH::
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
07-26-16 08:12 AM - Post#209001    

PJ succeeded really in the one year he brought in an Australian ringer (Andrew Gaze) who left the day after Seton Hall got knocked out. Actually, Seton Hall was better in the very early days of the Big East when they played on the court with all the lines and had Dan Callandrillo as their best player.
91Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1124
07-26-16 08:40 AM - Post#209004    

Not true. He made the tourney 6 of his last seven years at Seton Hall. After establishing the program in a very tough Big East (oh the good old days) they won multiple regular season championships and Big East tourney championships. Also, records or 31-7, 25-9, 23-9, and 28-7 sound pretty good and not just relative to where we are sitting. Let's give PJ some credit at least.
Penn90
Masters Student
Posts 570
Penn90
07-26-16 09:31 AM - Post#209007    

Thanks for the updates, Besnoah. Are any of these new offers actually good?
Leges sine moribus vanae

palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
07-26-16 09:38 AM - Post#209008    

I'll give him credit for making Spreewell choke him.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
07-26-16 09:50 AM - Post#209010    

Couple offers on Verbal Commits today:

7/26/2016 - 2017 PG Jimmy Sotos (6-2, -, 2★) has received an offer from Pennsylvania. - Per Link
7/26/2016 - 2017 PG Gabriele Stefanini (6-1, -, 2★) has received an offer from Pennsylvania.

PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-26-16 10:04 AM - Post#209014    

Sotos has really picked up steam this summer and has gone from an un-recruited guard to a kid with a dozen offers in about a month. We will see where this leads but he has played big against some great competition in July.

Speaking of which, the next 60 days is critical in the 2017 recruiting journey as the live period for college coaches evaluations just ended and players will be taking unofficials before school starts to narrow their choices. September the coaches can go out to schools and visit open gyms. Many players will make their college decisions between now and the end of September. Penn has some very good players on their list, let's see if they can close a couple of them.
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
07-26-16 10:38 AM - Post#209021    


How about one.
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
07-26-16 10:41 AM - Post#209022    

  • palestra38 Said:
Amaker took 2 programs that were either long time sad sacks (Seton Hall)


As a Jersey boy this statement stuck in my craw.

There is a scent of truth - the Blaney years were terrible. However Amaker was only 3 years removed from the Carlesimo years, which were spectacular. So it's not like Amaker had to build the program up from nothing.

Amaker's years at SH were mixed. True, recruiting picked up a lot and he had that one really good year. The other 3 years, including his last, were mediocre at best.

To be fair the SH job was his first one as a head coach. He has grown a lot since then and doesn't make the same mistakes he did back then.

Sorry to have hijacked the hijacking of this thread. Now back to whatever you were arguing about.

T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts 1169
07-26-16 10:53 AM - Post#209023    

  • PennFan10 Said:
Penn has some very good players on their list, let's see if they can close a couple of them.



For those of us with zero visibility into recruiting, can you list maybe the top three or four targets we're aiming for?

Thanks.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 847
07-26-16 11:04 AM - Post#209025    

Strictly from Verbal Recruits: three small forwards: Walter Whyte, Connecticut, 6.5 210 3.5*; Najja Hunter, Westtown Sch, outside Philly, 6.5 185, 3*; Eddie Scott, Gonzaga DC, 6.5 190, 2.5* and a group of 2* guards whose stock might be on the rise.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-26-16 11:27 AM - Post#209028    

I think Darron Russel (offers from Depaul, SMU, Temple) and Geo Baker (kansas state, GW, Rice) at the point would be great recruits for Penn, Jelani Williams (Temple, GW, Rice) and Sasha Stefanovic (Xavier, Valpo, St Joes) at the 2, Eddie Scott (GW, St Joes, Dayton) and Walter Whyte (St Joes, Northeastern, Richmond) at the 3 would be my wish list for commits. I Think Jimmy Sotos is similar to Columbia's Mike Smith in talent and would be a great, Makai Mason, type guard in the league.


pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
07-26-16 12:44 PM - Post#209030    

The main thing we're missing in terms of names that are available publicly is size. To judge by VC you'd think Donahue wants to field a team of all point guards and small forwards. Granted, there are a number of serious recruits out there who the hoi polloi (myself included) just don't know about - Jimbo Lull, who ended up at San Francisco last year, was on campus for an official visit before his name was on these boards, for instance. Still, one would hope that we're in contact with some decent guys who are over 6-7.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
07-26-16 12:54 PM - Post#209031    

the "Decent" is the rub there isn't it. I'm so jaded, I assume anyone 6'8 and over is a project or athletically limited, interchangeable "just a guy".

It's the guards who potentially excite me.

But I do take your point.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-26-16 01:01 PM - Post#209032    

I don't know of any bigs that Penn is on right now. Doesn't mean they aren't on them, but this recruiting class nationally seems to have a dearth of big men.
coins
Sophomore
Posts 195
07-26-16 02:00 PM - Post#209037    

Williams--GW may be out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/gw-...

The hired outside counsel to investigate.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
07-26-16 02:00 PM - Post#209038    

  • Jeff2sf Said:
the "Decent" is the rub there isn't it. I'm so jaded, I assume anyone 6'8 and over is a project or athletically limited, interchangeable "just a guy".

It's the guards who potentially excite me.

But I do take your point.



Funny thing is, if the team develops the way it seems like Donahue wants it to, a hypothetical big wouldn't even have to be that exceptional. We'd just need a couple bodies to rebound the ball and not turn it over every other time they touch it. Brodeur looks like he'll bring more than just that but he's only one guy. A Josh Sanger-plus would be fine.

palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
07-26-16 03:45 PM - Post#209041    

Oh please, with nothing against Josh Sanger, he wasn't good enough to help Penn when the League was much weaker. He averaged 1.1 ppg and about 40 rebounds PER YEAR. He couldn't get on the court even before U and Koko showed up in his junior year. We need far more help than that.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
07-26-16 03:56 PM - Post#209043    

i know what you meant, pennhoops.

I also call this the Villanova strategy. Tell me about all the great "5" men that Villanova has had in Jay Wright's tenure.

And yes, P38, they were better than Sanger. Butwe don't need any recruit to actually be as good as a Villanova 5, it's all relative and illustrative.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 847
07-26-16 05:25 PM - Post#209044    

For 'Nova, Ochefu is about it; but the guy that have coming in may be the second.

Change Sanger to Eggleston & I like the thought much more.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
07-26-16 11:03 PM - Post#209047    

Penn with another reported offer tonight:

Exum Elite ‏
2017 PG Jaxon Brenchley receives offer today from Pennsylvania. Congrats Jaxon!
section110
Masters Student
Posts 847
07-26-16 11:54 PM - Post#209050    

We seem to be the only eastern school interested. The highlight video is of a guy with good size for the position & real skills.
T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts 1169
07-27-16 10:02 AM - Post#209063    

  • besnoah Said:
Penn with another reported offer tonight:

Exum Elite ‏
2017 PG Jaxon Brenchley receives offer today from Pennsylvania. Congrats Jaxon!


I have a stupid question: What does it mean when we "offer" a kid? Can I safely assume that it means the kid has expressed at least some interest in Penn? I mean, I'm sure we could have "offered" Kyrie Irving, but there's no way he was going to play for us.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-27-16 10:25 AM - Post#209066    

Typically Ivy coaches have identified at least some interest and determined the student athlete would likely qualify academically. For kids who are from lower income families it could also include an indication of financial aid. Most of the time the coaches do a lot of work on a student athlete (getting a transcript, speaking to HS coach, AAU coach, meeting with the student and speaking to one or both parents) before they "offer" him, which is really just a promise of admission and an indication of financial aid.

T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts 1169
07-27-16 10:29 AM - Post#209067    

So it's safe to assume that there is at least a modicum of mutual interest. This is the big point for me to understand. I assume we're not going to "offer" a kid who expresses zero interest in coming.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-27-16 11:04 AM - Post#209071    

I think that's a safe assumption for the most part. I can't say that's 100% true but I think most of the coaches have to know a kid is a likely qualifier under the academic index to pursue them.

That may be an actual rule, I don't know for sure. I do know that Stanford coaches cannot "offer" a kid until the admissions department sees their transcript from their junior year. That fact hurts them in recruiting against places like Duke or Northwestern.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
07-27-16 11:50 AM - Post#209073    

If there is a rule, it doesn't seem to keep Ivy schools from pursuing kids who are not yet above the AI floor. Harvard had a high profile case, of course, where the player never qualified after getting an offer.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
07-27-16 02:45 PM - Post#209082    

I didn't mention it in the above, but Brenchley is a consensus 3* and he plays for the same AAU team Mark Jackson was on.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
07-27-16 03:54 PM - Post#209086    

Geo Baker, who Penn offered in April, committed to Rutgers:

RHoops247
Rutgers is on the board in 2017 as 6-3 G Geo Baker of @dcbluedevilsnh has committed to Rutgers.
Jay O
Masters Student
Posts 547
07-27-16 04:54 PM - Post#209088    

Thank you for setting up a Geo Tracker to keep us informed of Baker's whereabouts. I hope it looks like this: http://imganuncios.mitula.net/1994_geo_tracker_spa...
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
07-29-16 10:07 AM - Post#209105    

That's a fair point on Brodeur. When you only get one 3 star guy, you need him to pan out. Harvard has reached the point where, if they miss on Baker (just to pick a guy), it's no big deal because they've got lots of bites at the apple. We're not there yet.

We'll see what this year brings. I'm hoping that the quantity of 2 star types who presumably fit what Donahue's trying to do will shake out a couple of immediate contributors. And my guess is that MacDonald will be one of our best players this year, if not the best.


PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-29-16 10:24 AM - Post#209106    

Caleb Wood is going to play a lot of minutes if you read between the lines of what SD is saying about him.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-29-16 08:22 PM - Post#209133    

Another offer. We are the last Ivy in on this one, 6-6 wing out of Chicago U-High, which is the same school Max is from. Seems weird we are so late on this kid compared w other Ivy's.

Scott Burgess
‏@scottybscout
Chicago U-High 2017 PF Jameel Alausa @_ja__15 lands #Penn offer @teamyandr @VerbalCommits

AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
07-29-16 08:38 PM - Post#209134    

Every Ivy except Harvard
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
07-29-16 09:49 PM - Post#209136    

  • PennFan10 Said:
Another offer. We are the last Ivy in on this one, 6-6 wing out of Chicago U-High, which is the same school Max is from. Seems weird we are so late on this kid compared w other Ivy's.

Scott Burgess
‏@scottybscout
Chicago U-High 2017 PF Jameel Alausa @_ja__15 lands #Penn offer @teamyandr @VerbalCommits




Rothschild took a prep year at New Hampton. The leap from U-High to New Hampton is galactic in terms of competition. The last Ivy to come out of U-High was Mike Rudoy to Princeton, who didn't last long.

Nothing against Alausa, who may be a terrific talent, but his hs prep is not what you'd want it to be.

SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
07-30-16 12:07 AM - Post#209141    

Could be any number of reasons for that. Could just have gotten reported late. Or we could have been waiting on somebody else for the spot. Or maybe the Scott commitment alters the type of player we are seeking.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
07-30-16 12:25 AM - Post#209142    

  • pennhoops Said:
  • PennFan10 Said:
Another offer. We are the last Ivy in on this one, 6-6 wing out of Chicago U-High, which is the same school Max is from. Seems weird we are so late on this kid compared w other Ivy's.

Scott Burgess
‏@scottybscout
Chicago U-High 2017 PF Jameel Alausa @_ja__15 lands #Penn offer @teamyandr @VerbalCommits




Rothschild took a prep year at New Hampton. The leap from U-High to New Hampton is galactic in terms of competition. The last Ivy to come out of U-High was Mike Rudoy to Princeton, who didn't last long.

Nothing against Alausa, who may be a terrific talent, but his hs prep is not what you'd want it to be.




I was actually questioning why we were last on a kid when Max has a connection to the school. If the kid is a rising senior he and Max played together 1 year. I agree NHS was huge for Max. Also, Matt Hannessian came out of U-High, as did Mike Turner, who played 3 years at Northwestern. Zeke Upshaw was also a UHigh product (Hofstra player. http://www.gohofstra.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=2324)


pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
07-30-16 10:50 AM - Post#209147    

We were after Turner, as I recall. He left NU after a year or two and I don't think ever resurfaced (in a basketball sense).
Glenflesk
Freshman
Posts 67
07-31-16 10:44 PM - Post#209159    

Recently I've been hearing about the two Penn 2017 Recruits, Mark Jackson and now Eddie Scott. That's great.

But what happened to the other '17 recruits who were reported to be commits, Zack Kaminsky and Jordan Salzman???
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
08-01-16 08:23 AM - Post#209163    

Zack Kaminsky is in the class of 2016 and is on the roster. It's unclear what Jordan Salzman's status is. He committed as a sophomore which generally doesn't happen at Penn in this particular sport. I don't know whether it was a unilateral or bilateral commitment. I do know he plays at a small private school on Long Island that is a fine school, but does not play at a very high level.

As for Mark Jackson, I just happened to watch just yesterday the snippets of video of him that are on the internet. While we all know the limitations of online video, I'd simply comment that what's there is interesting. He does have skills and he evidences good hands and court awareness.

We haven't had that much luck with 7 footers in the past, but Mark is 7'3" and may in fact still be growing as his coach has hinted. The big question is whether he arrives on campus after two years in Paris both bigger and stronger or, alternatively with a stomach full of 30 pounds of pain au chocolate.

Steve did have success with a skinny, awkward 7 footer at Cornell who arrived from St Bonnies, where he was an unrecruited walk-on. That guy was an awful big part of that great run Cornell had a few years ago so there is reason to be hopeful.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
08-01-16 11:26 AM - Post#209165    

given the way basketball is going, I'm beyond skeptical of anyone over 7 ft. Every inch he grows at this point is making it less likely he contributes. We'll see, of course. Could be way off.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
08-01-16 11:33 AM - Post#209168    

You could, indeed, be way off, but history strongly suggest you're dead on. The smart thing (emotionally speaking) to do with a player like this is to assume he'll never amount to anything. If he actually turns into a significant contributor, it will be a pleasant surprise.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
08-01-16 01:50 PM - Post#209171    

Eddie Scott was a strong get. He can be a contributor on an Ivy tournament-caliber team. If Jackson and Salzman are getting big minutes, it could mean that one of them surprised, but most likely, it means Penn is still not a top four program. I'd be stunned if Penn doesn't pick up one or two more potential solid contributors in this class - the pool is deep in the 2 to 3.5-star level this year.

Consensus seems to be that Penn is being decently successful executing its strategy and should return to the top four with HYP in relatively short order. That being said, that strategy took a bit of a hit this summer and could take another hit in the next summer or the summer after, as the Ivy presidents continue to tinker with the rules.
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
08-01-16 01:58 PM - Post#209172    

  • mrjames Said:
That being said, that strategy took a bit of a hit this summer and could take another hit in the next summer or the summer after, as the Ivy presidents continue to tinker with the rules.



MrJames, what do you mean by this? What happened this summer and what might happen in future summers?


Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts 1439
08-01-16 02:00 PM - Post#209173    

Mike James, please explain the basis of your analysis that the strategy "took a hit" this summer.

What exactly happened this summer and how did it impact Penn?


Bill Lewis
Senior
Posts 304
08-01-16 02:24 PM - Post#209176    

Mr. James. That comment is a rip-off. It is the type of comment you either explain, or don't make.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
08-01-16 03:39 PM - Post#209177    

A person can guess
If he thinks he knows
For some information
Lends itself to sharing
Often directly, often not
One is left to obliquely posit
Relegated to silence

AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
08-01-16 04:09 PM - Post#209179    

Probably roster size or limitation on recruit numbers. We are very unbalanced - only graduate 2 next year.
weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts 2125
08-01-16 04:19 PM - Post#209180    

Take the first letter of each line of Mike's post. That's your clue.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
08-01-16 04:24 PM - Post#209181    

Yes - clever.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
08-01-16 04:46 PM - Post#209182    

missing that clue is going to stick in my gut for the rest of the day.

let alone the message itself.
Bill Lewis
Senior
Posts 304
08-01-16 05:03 PM - Post#209183    

Well done Mr. James, well done.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
08-01-16 06:02 PM - Post#209185    

Am I forbidden to ask precisely what that means? Always curious as to how the mysterious AI works in practice. I guess we're not supposed to know.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
08-01-16 06:08 PM - Post#209186    

The first rule of Fight Club and the Ivy AI are very similar. I trust Asia will find out the answer and report back.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
08-01-16 06:24 PM - Post#209187    

So in essence Mike is saying Penn's strategy has been to recruit low AI guys and hasn't been able to get some of them in.

Game recognize etc etc
SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts 1150
08-01-16 11:26 PM - Post#209188    

I looked it up on line and learned that the first rule of Fight Club is "You do not talk about Fight Club." Guess what Mike is saying is he is not going to talk about the AI or any changes that were made to it.

While Mike is not talking, I feel comfortable that Amy would not bother to protest a change which would work against Penn.
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
08-02-16 09:33 AM - Post#209190    

Going after lower AI guys isn't necessarily Donahue's grand plan, he's just fishing where there's more fish. AI is a Bell curve. There are naturally more pickings at lower levels. When the floor is moved up that means there are fewer recruits that will make a difference. The teams who are naturally ahead of the others will get the best of what's available, everyone else fights for the leftovers.

Penn will be in a fight with Columbia for that coveted 4th slot in the tourney. The other three slots are accounted for. That is the reality until one or more of HYP loses interest in basketball, Penn can figure out how to break into the top, or the rules change to be less onerous on the non-HYPs. I don't see the rules changing. It's going to be an uphill battle.

I've made my peace with Penn's basketball irrelevance. I'm still here because old habits die hard. I also like the camaraderie.

For the time being we need to show some patience and root for incremental improvements that show Donahue is at least going in the right direction.


SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts 1150
08-02-16 11:11 AM - Post#209193    

That's a very depressing outlook. Hope that your second choice (Penn figures out how to be relevant) is the winner.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
08-02-16 11:16 AM - Post#209194    

None of have a clue about the AI's of Steve's first class or how a marginally higher AI might impact kids he's prioritized this year.

What we know is that a higher AI shrinks the pool of available Ivy players for everybody. Counterbalancing that is the impression that most of us have that more quality players have recently begun to take a closer, more serious look at the League.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
08-02-16 11:33 AM - Post#209195    

I feel like you all are all talking in euphemisms and ellipses and have info I don't have. Here's my conclusion from reading tea leaves, everyone feel free to send me PMs telling me the real story:

H/Y/P have effectively reached the point offer scholarships thru generous aid that the other 5 can't match. Now that they've opened their candidate pools to all economic strata as we all argued scholarships would do, they would like to increase the AI floor for them as well as the whole league which will depress the pool.

In that scenario, they end up with about the same amount of candidates but of a higher quality from an academic POV while the rest of us (dwarves f$@#$q!) are left with a smaller pool to recruit.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
08-02-16 11:57 AM - Post#209196    

If this is case, then I'm confused. I seem to recall a number of posts from Mike in recent years that insist that there is little-to-no disparity between FA offers from HYP and the rest of the league. I admit to being highly skeptical of those claims. However, if that's so, than how would raising the AI floor penalize Penn more than any other institution in the conference? It seems to me that either HYP have a significant financial aid advantage or they don't.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 847
08-02-16 01:10 PM - Post#209198    

I'm not sure Mike has argued that. To his credit, in my view, his "most favored nation" proposal is a well argued position to level the financial aid playing field. H/Y/P still will have a brand advantage; but I'm willing to have Penn compete on the Big Five, the Palestra and its facilities.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
08-02-16 01:46 PM - Post#209200    

SM, I never said it was the case, it was me trying to read some badly chewed up tea leaves.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
08-02-16 04:48 PM - Post#209202    

I realize you weren't personally staking out a position. I was just taking your tea leaf reading to its potential conclusions.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
08-02-16 04:49 PM - Post#209203    

  • section110 Said:
I'm not sure Mike has argued that. To his credit, in my view, his "most favored nation" proposal is a well argued position to level the financial aid playing field. H/Y/P still will have a brand advantage; but I'm willing to have Penn compete on the Big Five, the Palestra and its facilities.



I'm too lazy to search for it, but I'm almost positive he has argued exactly that.
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
08-02-16 05:07 PM - Post#209204    

I'm not sure Mike has argued that but others have claimed that Penn is not at a disadvantage with respect to FA. I find that hard to believe as there is definitely a disparity among the general student population.

But Penn's toughest nut to crack is repairing self-inflicted wounds due to a decade of incompetence.

QHoops
Senior
Posts 368
08-02-16 05:17 PM - Post#209205    

That I agree with completely. We just went thru a 10 year stretch where only 2 teams would have competed in the 'old' Ivy League.

There is no question about how much this league has changed, but let's get our own house in order before we conclude that we can't compete in the new world order.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
08-02-16 06:08 PM - Post#209206    

Honestly, I've gone back and forth on the impact of FA over time. When I was a student reporter (prior to the FA arms race kicking off), I don't think I thought it was a big problem at all... because it probably wasn't. Once HYP started dramatically expanding aid (2008), it didn't take me long to come around to the idea that the impact can't be ZERO - that being said, it's also not driving the great disparity that many believe. Often I argue the anti-trust point, which might lead some to believe that I'm anti changing the FA policy, but that's just to make it clear that fixing the issue is tricky. I do believe that an MFN policy would get around the price fixing issue and put everyone on a level playing field.

Consistent with what I've been told for a couple seasons now, the AI floor did, indeed, rise again this offseason, and probably will rise again in a couple years. When you restrict the distance between the floor and the different AI averages that different teams have to hit, you start forcing all teams into the same strategy and more of the same pool of targets.
Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts 1439
08-02-16 07:37 PM - Post#209207    

Mike James,

Please set forth the specifics of your MFN policy and how it would create a level playing field.

SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts 1150
08-02-16 10:06 PM - Post#209208    

Correct me if I am wrong (which is not unlikely), but my understanding of the FA situation is that any Ivy can match the FA offered to an athlete by another Ivy institution. I think that is the MFN that we are attributing to Mike. However, where the fairness issue comes in is that when HYP makes one of its very generous offer, a school like Penn, IF it decides to offer the same or a similar package, is seen by the athlete as matching the offer he (or she) has already received from the HYP school. And even I would have to admit that the HYP names probably carry a little more cachet than Penn or the other Ivies.
So a system that seems "fair" (whatever that means) is really not and raising the AI will clearly reduce the pool of potential Ivy BBall players.

It's time to stop the nonsense and just offer scholarships like the other 346 (?) Division I programs.

I do think that there is a good deal of truth in the statement above about the past 10 years of the Penn program also continues to hurt us. The kids we are currently recruiting were 6, 7 or 8 years old when Penn was last relevant. That's a tough hurdle which I'm sure Steve D and staff are addressing as best they can. The obvious solution is to start winning but the Ivies have us with one hand tied behind our back.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
08-03-16 03:30 AM - Post#209209    

Looks like Walter Whyte cut his list down to his top 12 and we made the cut.
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
08-03-16 07:51 AM - Post#209210    

SteveChop, that's correct.

The other disadvantage is the case where a HYP doesn't offer a recruit. Then there is nothing to match.

And of course Harvard provides an FA package only after it's fairly clear the recruit will accept it, making the ability to match disingenuous.

It's part of the disadvantage we have. I agree with Mike that it's not the most substantial part of the disadvantage right now.

section110
Masters Student
Posts 847
08-03-16 08:16 AM - Post#209211    

I think the MFN would allow any school to offer what would be the best offer available at any other rival, e,g, H/Y/P without the need of an offer to that particular athlete from one of the higher fin. aid schools.
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
08-03-16 08:43 AM - Post#209212    

I'm not sure that's the case. I thought it just allowed a school to match a FA package offered at another Ivy. FA packages for athletes tend to get... uh... creative so it might be hard to know what an offer would be without it actually being on the table.

Since Harvard's FA packages are both the most generous and most transparent maybe it's possible to calculate a probable Harvard offer even if Harvard hasn't offered, but I don't think it works that way.

AsiaSunset, can you set this straight?


PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
08-03-16 09:33 AM - Post#209213    

  • Mike Porter Said:
Looks like Walter Whyte cut his list down to his top 12 and we made the cut.



While it's nice to be one of the 12, that's still a large enough number that it makes it a bit meaningless to even announce. I would be more excited if we were on a list of 5.

Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
08-03-16 09:47 AM - Post#209214    

just be happy things are breaking for us.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 847
08-03-16 10:43 AM - Post#209215    

No MFN is not the case; the situarion is as you state it. MFN was Mike James' suggestion as to how to level the fin. aid playing field.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
08-03-16 11:12 AM - Post#209216    

It used to be that you could only match a written offer, but then again, coaches used to be prohibited from doing fin aid workups, even informally. Everything had to come from the fin aid office.

I suspect all these rules are being repeatedly violated by all 8 teams with all the early commitments out there.

On thing everyone should be clear on - Amy Gutmann is committed to improving the fin aid situation at Penn; however, she is equally committed to treating athletes and non athletes alike. So - while Penn will be very low cost (near free) for more over time, HY and P still have an advantage for families earning over $100,000. This is a group that obviously involves a certain segment of Ivy eligible athletes and puts us at a distinct disadvantage, but we are pretty much on equal footing once you dip below that income number.

I think we'll be fine. One has to understand that while Amaker came to Harvard with a lot of enemies in the coaching fraternity, he is a personable guy who has mastered the art of recruiting. Plus he is supported by a strong brand. So - they will be tough to out-recruit but that doesn't automatically mean we can't assemble a team that can beat them. Plus - there is no reason we can't outdo Yale and Princeton. Princeton and Yale have succeeded the last few years with a lot of 2** recruits playing major roles.

The immediate problem we face is improving our 30% 3 pt shooting. With Steve's philosophy, you need to do much better. I think his first recruiting class makes it clear he is recruiting to implement that philosophy over time. We'll see. I think those that have advised a little patience are wise.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
08-03-16 11:13 AM - Post#209217    

  • PennFan10 Said:
  • Mike Porter Said:
Looks like Walter Whyte cut his list down to his top 12 and we made the cut.



While it's nice to be one of the 12, that's still a large enough number that it makes it a bit meaningless to even announce. I would be more excited if we were on a list of 5.




Haha - yeah I wasn't implying anything being in his top 12. Apparently he cut down from 30 schools, so being listed is better than not being listed of course. That said, I agree top 13 feels pretty meaningless. Just sharing since I saw it on Twitter.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
08-03-16 11:45 AM - Post#209218    

  • Jeff2sf Said:
just be happy things are breaking for us.



The point is being on a list of 12 is meaningless, so things are not breaking for us (or against us).

PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
08-03-16 11:51 AM - Post#209219    

  • AsiaSunset Said:


The immediate problem we face is improving our 30% 3 pt shooting. With Steve's philosophy, you need to do much better. I think his first recruiting class makes it clear he is recruiting to implement that philosophy over time. We'll see. I think those that have advised a little patience are wise.



As I posted on another thread, Steve Donahue team's 3pt % has improved at every school he has coached in every year he has coached them. At Cornell he took over a team shooting 29.5% and they shot at or above 40% each of his last 4 years. At BC his team went from 34% to almost 39% in 4 years. Penn will be better from the 3pt line this year. That's almost a certainty. And a 3% increase in shooting would have been about 2.2 ppg better and probably gives us 2-3 more wins last year. There are other issues that have been talked about but 3pt shooting isn't one I am worried about.

Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
08-03-16 11:58 AM - Post#209220    

Not a Bryan Cranston fan I see
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
08-03-16 12:49 PM - Post#209221    

Aaaah. Of course. Gus would be proud
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-03-16 01:14 PM - Post#209222    

Long time follower...first time writer...

There have been many complaints that Penn wasn't getting a shot at the higher ranked recruits, and now that they do (by making Walter White's final 12), why is it meaningless? Had Penn been one of the 18 or so schools who offered and didn't make the list, people would be singing the blues about never getting chances with these guys. Pick one...happy or not.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
08-03-16 01:25 PM - Post#209223    

Ha - like the user name!

I'm definitely happy we made his list even if it is a big list. Definitely a step in right direction and hopefully staff can get us to his even shorter list. Looks like he would be a big time recruit for us if we could get him onboard.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
08-03-16 01:41 PM - Post#209224    

http://www.hoopseen.com/news/general/201608/t uesda...

FYI according to this article I think Walter Whyte is visiting St. Joes and Penn today (so prob unofficial). Hope the campus and Palestra make a great impression!
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
08-03-16 02:26 PM - Post#209225    

  • DJ Jazzy Jeff Said:
Long time follower...first time writer...

There have been many complaints that Penn wasn't getting a shot at the higher ranked recruits, and now that they do (by making Walter White's final 12), why is it meaningless? Had Penn been one of the 18 or so schools who offered and didn't make the list, people would be singing the blues about never getting chances with these guys. Pick one...happy or not.



Welcome aboard the board!

It's meaningless in terms of process. There is no difference being one of the schools #6-12 as there is #13-30 is my point. We have no idea if we are in his final 3-4 or not. The information we have subsequently received that he is visiting Penn today is a much better sign than being one of 12.

So my "meaningless" comment was about measuring probability of him picking Penn vs school # 29. Visiting is a good sign. Although I would prefer if he were only visiting Penn and not also StJ.

mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
08-03-16 02:45 PM - Post#209226    

Yeah... for me, there are really three stages of excitement over a recruit:

1st - Mentioned/unofficial visit/etc
2nd - One of five (or fewer) official visits
3rd - Picked

If you don't get an official visit, it doesn't matter if the prospect visited unofficially or put your logo in a picture with 9 other schools or whatever, it's not "up" a level until you get that official. And if you get the official, it doesn't matter if you were the runner-up or a flyer visit, it's all the same unless you get the verbal.

You could argue there's a 4th here (matriculation), given that ever so often a verbal commit doesn't actually show up on the roster the next year, but primarily those are the three.

So, however excited you were about Whyte mentioning Penn, you should probably be no more excited by him unofficially visiting or listing Penn as one of 12 schools. The next stage of excitement should be getting an official.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
08-03-16 03:13 PM - Post#209227    

I'd say NYCHoops' earlier affirmation of his interest in Penn is worth an extra flicker of excitement.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
08-03-16 03:20 PM - Post#209228    

I disagree only slightly w Mr. James. It's definitely better that he is visiting campus, even unofficially, than being one of #6-12, albeit marginally. I totally agree an official visit and a verbal are the next mileposts of excitement.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-03-16 03:24 PM - Post#209229    

I understand 100%, my only issue was the lamentation over not getting "higher rated recruits" (insert complaining over losing Eli Brooks and others. Now Penn is in the running with this kid and it's not a big deal (although my bigger question is does Penn even want him now after getting Eddie Scott - same position). I think that had Penn not made that list however, the complaints about Coach Donahue's recruiting (which I personally feel aren't true) would have rang out again. Lastly, I think that too many of us get wrapped up in how many stars someone has. Give these new recruits a chance to blossom and show you what they have to offer...they're not even on campus yet.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
08-03-16 03:34 PM - Post#209230    

Much like any probabilistic metric, people have a tendency to BOTH overweight and underweight recruiting rankings/stars. Ignoring them is foolish. Pretending they're deterministic is foolish. Give me a team of 3/3.5/4 star guys and I'll consistently beat a team of 1-2 star guys. Give me ONE 3/3.5/4 star guy, and while I'd expect him to be more likely to be good than a 1-2 star guy, I wouldn't feel confident that I would observe that outcome.

Also, offers seem to add predictive information beyond that which stars can convey. So, I'd expect more out of a 2-star kid with all HM offers than a 2-star kid with good mid-major offers than a 2-star kid with all one-bid league offers.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
08-03-16 04:27 PM - Post#209232    

I find it hard to imagine that Scott's commitment would impact our interest in Whyte (nor would Whyte impact our interest in Scott). I would imagine that two guys with their size and skill set would fit nicely at the 2 and 3 for Donahue.

Perhaps if the personnel dictated, you could play small with them at the 3 and 4 as well.

Either way, I think they'd fit great together.

Hypothetically.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-03-16 04:49 PM - Post#209233    

I have a feeling that this will be a smaller class and with 2 commits already (I don't think Salzman is a viable commit) I think Penn would be smart to lock in on one of the PGs they are after and seal the deal with him. I feel that is the position (especially their outside shooting) that needs the most improvement to best fit Donahue's system. Of course, if Whyte were to commit I doubt they'd turn him away...
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
08-03-16 04:52 PM - Post#209234    

I get a sense from his videos and the descriptions of his game that Whyte has 3-4 skills, while Scott has more like 2-3 skills. The two would probably complement each other very nicely. Let's hope it comes to that.
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
08-03-16 08:57 PM - Post#209235    

  • DJ Jazzy Jeff Said:
(although my bigger question is does Penn even want him now after getting Eddie Scott - same position).


Like PennFan10 I'm more concerned about the odds of landing Whyte than what to do if Donahue does land him. There are at least 3 positions in Donahue's system that fill their skill set. That's 120 minutes to utilize. Plenty of room on the roster for talent, especially when not all talent pans out.

To add since I see you've commented below - Donahue has no qualms about playing another 3 at 4. It's fairly common in the Ivies and in the Big 5.

DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-03-16 08:57 PM - Post#209236    

I agree to a certain extent, however IMO Scott needs to improve his jumper to be more of a 2 and Whyte needs to grow a few inches to be more of a 4. Unfortunately the chances of the latter happening aren't too likely. Right now, I think they're both locked in at the 3 with only the chance to move to the 2 and not the 4. With that said, the log jam at the 2/3 only grows until the preseason is the first to tell us who is playing where. Like I said, the next big push has to be for a stud PG.
echo
Freshman
Posts 9
08-03-16 09:57 PM - Post#209237    

Per Julius Kim, citing Phenom Hoops, Walter Whyte took unofficial visits to Penn and St. Joes today.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
08-03-16 10:47 PM - Post#209238    

This is like playing Six Degrees of Separation with Kevin Bacon.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
08-04-16 03:23 PM - Post#209251    

Well, Whyte is bigger than the guy who played the most minutes at the 4 last year (Howard). In terms of the 2/3, the roles aren't really distinct in Donahue's offense (although Donahue will play two point guard types if he can. If Scott's shooting would prevent him from playing the 2, it will likely prevent him from playing (because the expectation will be that 4 guys who can shoot the 3 are on the floor at all times starting next year at the latest). That's not to say Scott won't play -- I think the fact that he is coming indicates that Donahue strongly believes that he will shoot it well.

Anyway, I can't imagine this will be a problem. If we are lucky enough to end up with both guys, playing time will not be an issue.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
08-04-16 03:28 PM - Post#209252    

I'd add to that that, by choosing Penn, Scott is indicating that he's prepared to play in Donahue's offense. I'd be stunned if he doesn't understand that he's going to have to be able to shoot and hit the 3 in order to fit into the system.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
08-04-16 03:46 PM - Post#209253    

Um... Harvard has 7?!? 3*+ recruits in their class last year a lot of which play similar positions. If we're lucky enough to get Whyte, I'm pretty sure we'll find a way to make it work! We'd be off to a great start for the class. It's an arms race and right now we're still outgunned.

Now if only Scott can convince his friend Jelani Williams to come to Penn also...
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
08-04-16 03:47 PM - Post#209255    

And Silver Maple, sorry but that wasn't directed at you. I'm actually agreeing with you. :-)
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
08-04-16 07:11 PM - Post#209257    

Verbal Commits reporting we've offered a 6-9 PF from Central Georgia Tech (a JUCO) called Nigel Jackson, but I think they have him mixed up with a 6-4 SF from Mt. St. Joseph's in Baltimore, who gets three stars from Scout.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
08-04-16 08:25 PM - Post#209259    

It's the kid from Mt St Josephs
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-04-16 10:13 PM - Post#209260    

Whyte is 1" taller than Howard who yes plays the 4. I think however, Howard is a band-aid (albeit a good one) until Donahue can get bigger and more stereotypical players for his system who can shoot and play the 4...like Brodeur. Next year Jackson slides into the 5 position with AJ at the 4 and then they figure out the guards.

Donahue clearly wants to get faster, quicker and athletic and that's where I feel Scott fits first. Next he is skilled and will hopefully develop into the shooter that fits the system.

It's clear that the direction of the program is trending upward on paper and time will tell if these young men blossom on the court like we all hope they do. It's obvious that Donahue is recruiting and getting good players who are gym rats and will be on campus year round to work and improve their games.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
08-04-16 11:01 PM - Post#209261    

there is zero chance Jackson plays over Max and AJ. Those two will play the 4/5 for the next 3 years most likely. Dwyer will play because he is the only shot blocker we have (AJ may become a good shot blocker and Jackson may get time because he could be a rim protector). AJ is a 4/5 and Max is a 3/4/5.

I really like Scott and Whyte. There is no reason to think they can't play at the same time. There are many examples of players with similar skill sets playing at the same time. Scott has a game a lot like Howard.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-04-16 11:47 PM - Post#209262    

There is zero chance Max plays the 3. He and AJ are def 4/5. I bet Jackson comes in and clocks minutes right away at the 5. He's skilled, passes well out of the post, is 7'-2", having him there creates a match up nightmare for whoever is guarding AJ and he's a rim protector/safety net on defense. Also remember, he's a Donahue recruit and Donahue is going to play his guys, and the leftover players, that best fit his system.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
08-05-16 01:02 AM - Post#209263    

Max, Jake, Jackson, Tyler and Collin are effectively Donahue recruits as well. They have only played for Donahue. They had no system until they ran SD's system. They fit his system and most of those guys will play.

I'll take the other side of Zero for Max at the 3, however unlikely. He is quick enough to do it. Also, Max is the best passing big man on the roster, has the best handle and can run. He is also the only big who can switch and guard a perimeter player. He is gonna be on the floor. I think it's a big stretch to say that Jackson is a match up nightmare for anyone except who he is going to guard. Most of the bigs in the Ivy can move. If he can't move his feet on the perimeter every team will ball screen him and beat him off the dribble. (see DNH)
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
08-05-16 06:54 AM - Post#209266    

Max does not look like he has the skill set of a 3, particularly in SD's system. I think he'll play the 5 next year.

It's hard to speculate about the potential impact of Mark Jackson. He'll be two years removed from hs. I assume the staff is in contact and knows what he is or is not doing. I don't have info and we should understand that none of us, including Mike James, is in position to offer anything substantive. Let's remember though - Jeff Foote was an unrecruited walk on at St Bonnie's before he transferred to Cornell.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-05-16 08:11 AM - Post#209268    

I beg to differ. Even if some of the players were recruited by Nat, none of the sophomore class are Donahue recruits who were specifically sought after with his system in mind. Fortunately for some of them they can fit the system, as for the others, I think they will fade into the bench as more recruits commit and come to school.

You have no idea how big and valuable a skilled 7'-2" player is until you see him in action. Trust me when I tell you, if he can be in shape and healthy (***don't know what this 2 year mission has done to him***) he will play and that will reduce the minutes of someone else who could play the 5 not named AJ or Max.

This is why I feel they should go hot and heavy for a stud PG to lock this class in. As somebody else mentioned, maybe Scott's teammate Jelani Williams. I personally like how Sotos looks and think he'll fit nicely in the system with his skills and gym rat mentality. Of course, if Whyte or someone else talented commits they won't turn him away even though I think Donahue wants to reduce the roster size considerably.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
08-05-16 11:11 AM - Post#209273    

Well my question is what system do high school guys actually fit into? These kids didn't play for Jerome. The only system they know is Donahue.

Max won't play the 3 I agree. But he can guard the 3 against any team and that is the requirement to be a 3? You have to guard the other teams 3.

I like Sotos. Would love to have him commit. I agree we could use a stud PG. I hope Silpe makes a big jump.

DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-05-16 02:16 PM - Post#209277    

Well...HS guys play in whatever system their HS coach installs. Moreover, most of these guys play Prep basketball which typically has more of a system than a regular HS does. If you get a new boss at work, you worked for the old boss (and other bosses at other jobs) but that doesn't mean you fit in the new boss's plans or can do the tasks he/she would like you to perform.

I think that in order to play a position you have to not only guard that position but you have to be an offensive threat from that position as well. Max is halfway there for the 3, which is why he's more of a 4/5.

I hope Silpe makes a jump too. Just think Sotos (and a few others) better fit exactly what Donahue wants to do. Plus, like I said, they're gym rats and will be on campus all summer taking classes, working out and playing pickup. That seems to be a new thing that more of the Penn guys are doing. Hope the whole team does it moving forward. Summer classes and getting ahead isn't an option at some of the other Ivy's and IMO this is definitely a recruiting advantage.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
08-05-16 03:28 PM - Post#209279    

In regard to what system do High school kids fit into, yes, there are kids who are very much system fits. Tony Hicks wasn't a system fit for Donahue. The decisions getting made by coaches aren't just about attracting the best talent regardless of skill set. It's about attracting the best talent for the system/style that your team plays. I'm quite confident that the incoming players will be clearer fits as a group than the returnees, simply because this is the first group that has been selected specifically to play the way Donahue wants to play.

As for Max at the 3, there is no way he plays there on offense, as we all seem to agree. He spent very little time at the 4 last year, let alone the 3. I suppose he could guard certain 3s, but the question is why you would want him to. If he is on a 3, that would mean one of our perimeter players has to guard the opponent's 4 or 5, and I don't see why we do that if Max can guard the interior guy. I guess it would be if you were getting torched by, say, Miles Wright, and wanted to put some length on him, and Dartmouth was playing an offensively challenged big.

Finally, the discussion of Jackson is interesting. Usually, 7'3 guys don't end up in our league unless they can't play (anybody that size with any chance to develop gets snapped up by the big schools). That's why you see the basic assumption that he is a huge project and won't play. Unless you know a lot more about him, I think it is a big stretch to presume he plays immediately, for the reasons above. All that said, sometimes the big schools get it wrong. So maybe he is the exception and we get a good one.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
08-06-16 02:48 AM - Post#209285    

Tony Hicks was not a system fit but it had nothing to do with his high school program. He played three years of hero ball under Jerome and that's what didn't fit.

95% of high school coaches don't have a system. Most bigs who,come out of high school are under developed because high school guards are not taught to,pass the ball to a big off a screen and roll or in the post. I just disagree with the idea that high school seniors fit or don't fit a system. None of them play in any system. AJ Brodeur, who,played at a high profile prep school, shot virtually zero threes and didn't take many jumpers at NMH. He was an on ball screen guy who scored most of his points near the rim. Is he a bad system fit? Eddie Scott is not a prolific 3 pt shooter but he is athletic and can run. But he fits the system because Donahue recruited him?

I just think the idea of a system fit out of HS is way overblown. Penn needs athleticism and skill, that's why Eddie Scott is a fit. Penn just need more talent. The coaches will mold and develop that talent.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
08-06-16 08:07 AM - Post#209286    

Agreed. And that's why we need large recruiting classes-- because only a few players will be successfully molded and developed, and it's impossible to predict which ones. The rest will sit.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-06-16 09:32 AM - Post#209287    

Nobody said Tony not fitting had anything to do with his HS program. It had everything to do with his specific skill set and his willingness to adjust the way he plays to how Donahue wanted him to play.

How can you say 95% of HS coaches don't have a system? Do they just roll the ball out and play? Calling plays and getting the ball to certain guys in situations is, at the bare minimum, "a system". A system is some sort of framework (no matter how rudimentary) of how you want to play. I'd say 95% of the coaches DO have this.

I don't think however, that players have to play in the specific system in HS that Donahue has. They do however have to show the translatable skills, or the ability to learn them, necessary to play in his system at Penn. THAT'S the science of recruiting and offering these kids.

I'm not sure which NMH games you watched but AJ did show a lot of his face up game. Plus, in AAU with the Playaz, AJ did that and more. They also have open gyms where the coaches come watch/recruit and the players show what they can do in those as well.

Like I said before, I think Eddie shows the size, athleticism and defensive ability that Penn is looking to add. His outside shooting ability is there and I would guess Donahue and his staff think that skill is one they can improve to the level they want it at.

The do not need large recruiting classes, rather they need to shrink them. If they effectively and efficiently recruit then they'll have the guys they want. There are 20 guys on the roster now which is too many. That many guys makes practices less efficient and produces fewer reps for the players that actually need them. If you miss on a player, then you gotta do a better job the next year recruiting that position. It can't be a "put everybody on the roster and see who sticks" approach.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
08-06-16 10:15 AM - Post#209288    

Brodeur was repeatedly mentioned as having one of the better mid range jump shots. Even in a 3 point oriented offense, having a 4 who can knock down the mid range jumper is a valuable asset. It opens up other options.
weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts 2125
08-06-16 11:12 AM - Post#209290    

I absolutely agree. Even if your system is predicated on three point shooting and getting to the rim, I still think you have to use the entire floor, and don't pass up open shots where they are available (and I do agree that long two point shots are of questionable value).

If you have a 4 who can reliably hit shots from the high post, and those shots are open, you should take them.
Jay O
Masters Student
Posts 547
08-06-16 04:46 PM - Post#209291    

You know who was really good as a big guy at mid-range jumpers? Henry Brooks [ducks]
weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts 2125
08-06-16 05:05 PM - Post#209292    

I did say *reliably*, didn't I?
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
08-06-16 05:21 PM - Post#209294    

It's not the high school program or system per se -- it's the skill set of the individual players. princeton has absolute system fits coming out of high school. Some of them ran the Princeton offense in high school, some did not. There are still specific skill sets they look for that are different from what some schools look for. Sometimes those skills overlap, sometimes they don't. donahue has specific skill sets he is looking for, and they are undoubtedly different from what Jerome Allen was looking for.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
08-07-16 08:18 AM - Post#209296    

Do we even know what Jerome Allen was looking for? I never could see any pattern in his recruiting.
Penn90
Masters Student
Posts 570
Penn90
08-07-16 09:13 AM - Post#209297    

That was by design. He was trying to confuse the opposition.
Leges sine moribus vanae

Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
08-07-16 10:22 PM - Post#209301    

"Sir, don't you think we should turn on the runway lights?"

"No, that's just what they're expecting us to do!"
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
08-08-16 08:30 AM - Post#209302    

Now the Italy trip finally makes sense.
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
08-08-16 08:44 AM - Post#209303    

DJ Jazzy Jeff - why do you think Donahue wants a smaller roster? At Cornell he had the largest roster in the league by a fair margin. I recall one blowout where he pulled some guy from the 3rd row to go into the game - I'm not kidding about this.

I don't know whether having a large roster is a good or bad thing, just saying what I'm expecting.

SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
08-08-16 11:15 AM - Post#209305    

We've got the biggest roster right now (20), but every team in the league has at least 15, and half have 18 or more. Ivy teams just have big rosters, since we're not limited by scholarships.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-08-16 11:29 AM - Post#209306    

I just think 20 is too many. It interferes with practice by taking reps away from the guys that actually need them. I'm not saying he's going to 12 guys tomorrow, just think it'll eventually get to the 13-15 range in the next few years.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
08-08-16 11:44 AM - Post#209307    

Well, that hasn't been the trend in the league, nor was it the trend for Donahue at Cornell (his rosters steadily increased in size until he was at 19 the year of the Sweet Sixteen run).

I can see it reversing at some point if we continue to increase FA and recruit at a higher level. In a world where everyone else can give out scholarships, one way we could compete was that we could give more than 12 kids whatever advantages came with being a recruited basketball player. That meant bigger rosters and more bites at the apple at finding the 2 star kids who would become stars. That advantage may become less necessary (and/or the ability to recruit more than 12 in a 4 year period might be closed by rule) as more players get free rides.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
08-08-16 11:57 AM - Post#209308    

If Donahue's evil plan works, he might be very well to somewhat shrink his roster and recruiting classes. But for now, quality is directly correlated with quantity.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
08-08-16 01:50 PM - Post#209309    

Title IX and directives from Penn Athletics Admin often impacts roster size more than coaching preference.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-08-16 02:16 PM - Post#209310    

I wonder if Donahue will continue to use the JV team to keep players in their respectful places and minimize expectations (both in practice and games).
Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts 1439
08-08-16 02:26 PM - Post#209311    

With respect to use of the JV team, I was recently told something like the following:

If varsity basketball players start playing on the JV team, then JV basketball would be counted as part of male intercollegiate athletic participation for purposes of Title IX and would put Penn out of compliance with that law.


If anyone is a Title IX expert, or if anyone knows a person on the Athletic Department staff who is a Title IX expert, please let us know if that is true or ever was true.


DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-08-16 07:46 PM - Post#209315    

Help me to understand...does that mean that only Varsity sports are supposed to be counted as a part of Title IX? So then a Varsity player playing JV is what would put them out of compliance, right?

I was under the impression (actually was told this by a few people) that other Ivy League schools, who will remain nameless, boost their Varsity roster with high AI students and just put them on the JV team. I guess I was given wrong info.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
08-08-16 08:43 PM - Post#209316    

How do you define varsity player?
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-08-16 10:59 PM - Post#209317    

I dunno. Stuart said it first. Maybe the better question is how does the NCAA or Title IX define a varsity player? The only thing I understood was that these player's AI counted toward the Varsity team, however they had no shot of seeing the floor and only played on the JV team.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
08-09-16 10:48 AM - Post#209319    

On the subject of recruiting, all two (2) of the bigs we've been publicly linked with - Bennett Vander Plas (Ohio) and Sukhmail Mathon (BU) - have committed elsewhere in the past few days.

I am very excited at the prospect of seeing Max Rothschild play center.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
08-10-16 11:24 AM - Post#209353    

No clue what the interest was like, but he visited (unofficially) all the way back on page 8 of this thread:

Adam Finkelstein
Holy Cross with their 3rd commitment in the last week with @ExeterHoop & @DistrictHoop big guard Kyle Copeland.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-13-16 10:00 PM - Post#209543    

Penn has made the final 7 for Jelani Williams: Penn, Princeton, Pepperdine, Temple, GW, Rice and Delaware. This is a good thing... Need another athletic stud!
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
08-14-16 12:26 PM - Post#209547    

As rendered visually by Mr. Williams himself:

https://twitter.com/_JWill2_/status/76458 317860247...
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-14-16 08:01 PM - Post#209560    

The offer hasn't been reported by VC, however Penn has made the final six for PF Jarrod Simmons.

https://twitter.com/AdamFinkelstein/statu s/7649655...

This would be another nice pickup for Penn, although I still think they're targeting a PG as well.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
08-14-16 08:58 PM - Post#209562    

Are we a new addition to his consideration set?
91Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1124
08-14-16 09:16 PM - Post#209564    

No. He just didn't make it on the Penn page on verbal commits.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
08-15-16 12:40 AM - Post#209565    

Hadn't heard his name before so glad to see we are in the mix here. Would be nice to add a quality big into this class and he appears to be a 3 star recruit across the board.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
08-22-16 05:36 PM - Post#209812    

Local article from Chicago implying bad news re Jimmy Sotos, good news re Jameel Alausa.

http://suntimeshighschool sports.com/2016/08/22/hen...
91Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1124
08-22-16 05:49 PM - Post#209814    

Sotos had already announced he was doing ten visits and we were not one of them. Sorry but thought people had seen that reported.

Also, we are not on the list of five visits for Longpre. Stefanovic cut his list down and we did not make the cut.

Schweiger committed to Princeton today who is doing a very good job recruiting right now.

Finally, Alausa would be a good fit for us. He is described in multiple places as a 6-7 power forward which we could use.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
08-22-16 08:43 PM - Post#209817    

Alausa a 6-6 sf playing at a very low HS level (though U-High will be playing some tougher-than-usual competition this season). Regardless of his potential, he's not the solution to our interior problems.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
08-22-16 11:12 PM - Post#209818    

Not much out there on Alausa with a quick internet search. Is he a little under recruited because of this high school level? His mixtape online looks intriguing for sure.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
08-23-16 12:00 AM - Post#209821    

Alausa is from same HS as Max Rothschild
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
08-23-16 12:10 AM - Post#209823    

Ah okay got it. But Max had the advantage of a prep year to get more exposure, right?
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
08-23-16 12:37 AM - Post#209825    

Yes, Max did a gap year after he graduated in 2014 at New Hampton. He and Alausa would have played together one year at UHigh. For the record, Matt Hannessian, 2015 graduate, also played at UHigh I believe.
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3988
08-24-16 02:06 PM - Post#209870    

And Arne Duncan?
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
08-24-16 02:28 PM - Post#209872    

Yes but Arne didn't go to Penn he went to Harvard.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
08-24-16 03:27 PM - Post#209876    

Short video here from early August where Jamir Harris, who took an unofficial in June, mentions Penn as one of the 4 schools recruiting him hardest (Stanford, Minnesota, and Princeton are the other 3 mentioned):

http://highschoolsports.nj.com/news/article/-65597...
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-27-16 11:07 AM - Post#209963    

Walter Whyte has scheduled 5 official visits:

Penn - Sept. 3
Davidson - Sept. 17
Boston University - Sept. 23
Northeastern - Sept. 30
Dan Diego - TBD

More good/positive news when it comes to recruiting.
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
08-27-16 12:05 PM - Post#209965    

Yes, though I don't like that we're up first.

Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
08-27-16 01:38 PM - Post#209967    

Listen-- I don't want to be a downer here, but does anybody else think that list of schools seems inconsistent with an ESPN 4-star rating?

All that said, I hope this kid is fantastic, and I hope he comes to Penn.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
08-27-16 01:55 PM - Post#209970    

I don't think he is a 4* kid. The other services have him at 3.3-3.7 which seems accurate. He would be a great addition for Penn, along the lines of Brodeur and a clear impact player in the Ivy League.
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
08-27-16 02:15 PM - Post#209971    

I liked his drive and spin moves. He seems fine on the shot. I would have liked to see him follow his shots to either rebound or box out a bit more.

Leon
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
08-27-16 02:53 PM - Post#209972    

That's excellent news that we made Whyte's list for 5 official visits. He would be a great recruit for us that would seriously up our athleticism. He's an A10 level recruit that cares about academics (Davidson made 5 visits but Temple in A10 were in top 7, Saint Joe's was in top 12).

Interesting Yale didn't make the cut, but I suppose he could visit there any time. Hoping we bring other top kids in on 9/3 and pitch then on all they can do together.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
08-27-16 03:31 PM - Post#209973    

I think if we all put our heads together, we can figure out why Yale didn't make the cut. Remember Penn's advantage/strategy we discussed earlier...
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
08-27-16 03:44 PM - Post#209974    

Have you considered the possibility that maybe he doesn't want to be quite that close to home? Or that maybe he didn't care for the coach? Or that maybe he didn't like the Yale vibe?
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
08-27-16 05:02 PM - Post#209977    

Right. Or it could be one of the other 100 things going through a typical 17 year-old's head when trying to decide where he/she is going to commit. Regardless I must say I'm impressed with the level of kids we're involved with lately. Gotta give Donahue some love.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
08-27-16 07:52 PM - Post#209980    

Agree with you on Donahue Penn pal. My biggest concern was recruiting and it looks like at least the staff is at least getting us in the mix with players a step above (and a great start with Scott).
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
08-27-16 08:31 PM - Post#209981    

I honestly haven't considered anything personally. I'm just the messenger.

I hope Penn is successful here, and if one of their other top targets gets across the AI bar, I hope they or at least some other Ivy is successful there too. The more talent in the league, the better. I'm just trying to temper the enthusiasm of those who might intend to read more into what this means about the Ivy recruiting pecking order than it actually does. That being said, so long as the AI floor stays where it's at, it's going to provide Penn the space to get competitive again, which this league sorely needs.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
08-27-16 09:27 PM - Post#209983    

I think we're getting a bit of a preview of what Mike's posts are going to say when Penn starts beating Harvard.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
08-27-16 10:11 PM - Post#209985    

To be eminently clear, this is meant to be an explanation, not a complaint. Our rules are ridiculous and unnecessary, so I don't view their as being any style points for "holding yourself to a higher standard" than our already silly restrictive policies. If Penn rides this all the way to the top, it'll be my explanation of how they got there, but not in an accusatory way. Play the cards your given.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
08-27-16 10:18 PM - Post#209986    

I don't think that's fair. Mike is generally fair/objective and be literally has no horse in this race.
11Quakers
Sophomore
Posts 123
08-27-16 11:39 PM - Post#209987    

Mr. James

Your AI comments about Penn lack the full context they need and as such come across as a dig. Consider all the elements all the schools use and please opine on which has what advantages.

A simple review of that would lead one to assess that Harvard has several advantages they are using for their benefit, most of which other schools cannot make.

1. Let me ask what is Amaker's salary and how was that funded? We all know the answer to that.

2. A $30 billion endowment allows one school to do things others cannot.

So don't kid yourself that H isn't perfectly willing to outspend others to achieve whatever they want. Please...


palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
08-28-16 08:07 AM - Post#209989    

Mike's points are legitimate. The fact is that despite that for a typical student, what it takes in 2016 to get into Penn is virtually indistinguishable from what it takes as a Harvard applicant, we do have much more leeway when it comes to athletes. Can you imagine Harvard admitting 2 transfers from a Juco and FDU?

That being said, it's not even close to the advantage of spending twice as much on the program and being able to essentially give a scholarship to anyone who applies and plays basketball. But there's nothing wrong with Mike pointing out the facts.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
08-28-16 12:51 PM - Post#209994    

As I said - play the cards your given!

Advantages are all about opportunity and execution. FA advantages are only helpful if the talent you're pursuing is in the window where you have the edge and if you convert in that window. Penn has a LOT of opportunity in its area of the pool for the 2017 class, but it still has to convert or else the advantage is meaningless.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-29-16 07:32 PM - Post#210010    

Jelani Williams will be taking his official visit this weekend as well as Walter Whyte. This is Jelani's 2nd official visit as he was at Rice last weekend. Penn made Jelani's final 7 (Penn, Princeton, Temple, Rice, Delaware, GW and Pepperdine) so it's good to see he chose them as 1 of his 5 official visits. Also worth noting, he took an unofficial visit last year with Eddie Scott so this won't be his first time on campus.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
08-30-16 11:00 AM - Post#210016    

So what exactly is this strategy in that the two on officials this weekend are being actively recruited by either Princeton or Yale and a 3rd priority recruit (Jarrod Simmons) is being pursued aggressively by Yale?
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
08-30-16 01:15 PM - Post#210019    

I don't want to talk about specific kids and their AI scores, if we can avoid it.

Let's just say that where kids will realistically end up can be different or a subset of a larger list of schools that they declare as finalists or even take official visits to.

I'd be very surprised if any of those three kids ended up at Princeton or Yale, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. At the same time, I think Penn and other Ivies have good shots with that group,
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
08-30-16 02:02 PM - Post#210021    

Hopefully Penn uses this to their advantage and runs with the opportunity. Although another big class, getting these 3 plus Eddie and Mark Jackson would be great for the future.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
08-30-16 02:10 PM - Post#210022    

Penn also has an advantage as having the best facilities in the Ivy and the only school with a dedicated practice gym.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
09-01-16 02:42 AM - Post#210085    

  • besnoah Said:
Penn with another reported offer tonight:

Exum Elite ‏
2017 PG Jaxon Brenchley receives offer today from Pennsylvania. Congrats Jaxon!



Jaxon is off the board as of today - committed to Utah. Big weekend for Penn recruiting coming up, so let's hope it goes well...
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
09-01-16 11:43 PM - Post#210134    


‏@teamyandr
2019 6'3 G Mohammed Alausa (U-High Chicago) @mx_easy17 is taking an unofficial visit to Columbia University today #IvyLeague


I'm pretty sure Alausa is visiting Penn on this trip from Chicago too.
91Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1124
09-02-16 09:17 AM - Post#210139    

Coming with his brother (Jameel)?
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
09-02-16 09:30 AM - Post#210140    

Actually I think they are together. And I meant Jameel visiting Penn.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
09-07-16 12:37 PM - Post#210250    

Jameel just committed to Yale.
nychoops
Junior
Posts 239
09-07-16 03:20 PM - Post#210255    

1) Not sure Jameel is a huge loss
2) Simomns is a stud....issues have been addressed here but he's a really good player
3) Whyte for me is in a different class. He's a beast. I think he is a program changing type player with his toughness and competitive nature,
4) Saltzman is a long way away from being a contributor
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
09-10-16 04:21 PM - Post#210339    

Per his AAU team on Twitter yesterday:

Jarrod Simmons will have school visits from Penn & Princeton today and BC's Jim Christian will make an in home visit tonight at 8:00 pm.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
09-10-16 04:23 PM - Post#210340    

NYC - thanks as always for your insight and hope we can find a way to get Whyte and/or Simmons. Either would be an even bigger step in the right direction.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
09-14-16 05:47 PM - Post#210433    

FYI...Mr. Salzman has been removed from Penn's commitments on Verbal Commits. I think that answers any further questions as to his status.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
09-14-16 06:28 PM - Post#210437    

Either that or he's taking that offer from Duke.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
09-15-16 08:11 AM - Post#210458    

IMO, moving forward with this class the staff sets their sights on the PF position with Simmons and Danilo Djuricic (who is on an OV to Harvard this weekend). Maybe there's another PF is the mix that we don't know about, but that's where I think they focus now.

What's also refreshing with the early 2017 commits, is that they can now focus earlier on the 2018 commits. Good news!!
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
09-15-16 10:00 AM - Post#210461    

There is a very large odds difference in landing those two PFs. I do think you have a very good shot at Simmons.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
09-15-16 10:18 AM - Post#210463    

so no Whyte?

my twitters tell me he made the top 150 of the 24/7 rankings.

he also re-tweeted zagoria's tweet about his official visits which had left out Penn originally. I'm sure kids mostly just like to see reporters talk nicely about them so that's why he RT'ed but if this was Joel Embiid, he'd have definitely corrected Zagoria's omission. Ah well, trust the process.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
09-15-16 10:31 AM - Post#210464    

Do you think Danilo Djuricic commits to Harvard?
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
09-15-16 11:55 AM - Post#210470    

They better hope so. They are pretty thin up front


mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
09-15-16 01:15 PM - Post#210474    

I don't know. I'm reasonably confident that the longer it goes, especially after the official reclass to 2017, the less likely it is that Danilo will end up at Harvard or Princeton, and I'm reasonably confident that Penn isn't a major player here.

As for what he'll ultimately do... I'd suspect if it is Harvard, we'd be most likely to hear about it shortly after his visit.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
09-15-16 03:27 PM - Post#210478    

I agree 100%. Although, I'd love to see Penn make a splash with another recruit, preferably at the 4/5 to go with Max, AJ and Mark Jackson.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
09-16-16 11:46 AM - Post#210497    

While the top item is Harvard related, the bottom one is a little more disheartening:

http://www.hoopseen.com/news/special/201609/f astbr...
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
09-16-16 01:44 PM - Post#210500    

That stinks. I think Whyte had the best video I have seen for a Penn recruit.
91Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1124
09-16-16 02:25 PM - Post#210501    

It may not be clear but that is just their prediction. They hardly have a perfect record on those and I am hoping this is one they miss on. There are some small encouraging signs out there with regards to Mr. Whyte in terms of our chances as well.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
09-16-16 02:50 PM - Post#210504    

Re: the Whyte/Davidson prediction, it probably has something to do with the fact that he's on his official to Davdison this weekend.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
09-16-16 03:50 PM - Post#210506    

Yeah good catch. when I saw this I was confused also at first but then noticed the title of prediction watch. Also hoping this prediction is off!
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
09-16-16 05:32 PM - Post#210507    

FWIW, they pulled it from the article. I don't know enough to hazard a guess as to what will happen here.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
09-16-16 05:53 PM - Post#210508    

2017 @PSACardinals wing Walter Whyte will no longer visit Davidson this weekend and instead trip off to the A10 program on October 22
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
09-17-16 07:44 AM - Post#210511    

I think Penn has more than a casual chance w Whyte. He visited the same weekend Jelani Williams was there (and committed) and Eddie Scott was there too. I don't know anything about Davidson's recruitment of Whyte but I know Penn is strongly in the mix.
nychoops
Junior
Posts 239
09-17-16 08:23 AM - Post#210512    

Don't read into postponement.. several factors on both sides in play....trust me any prediction right now is simply a guess....Penn has a chance but many variables.....
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
09-17-16 09:53 AM - Post#210515    

One variable that can affect the recruitment of some of these kids (and I have no information on this relative to Whyte) is test scores. The ACT test dates are June 11, September 10 and October 22. If a recruit needed a higher test score their recruitment could be delayed until one or more of those dates has passed (and enough time to report the score). Again, I am not suggesting this is the case with Whyte, merely pointing out a variable that has been in play for some in the past.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
09-19-16 03:39 PM - Post#210565    

He retweeted Jelani's highlight mix yesterday!

He also commemorated 6 months with his girlfriend and/or best friend.


Oh my god, I've become BRF. Gonna go shower for a while.
T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts 1169
09-19-16 04:19 PM - Post#210571    

Hey what are Vanderberg and Castro up to these days?
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
09-19-16 07:25 PM - Post#210578    


Something tells me he lurks among us.
QHoops
Senior
Posts 368
09-19-16 09:38 PM - Post#210588    

I sort of miss (a little) his annual pre-season rants:

1) Harvard's unfair roster size
2) The 7 Cornell players that could start for any other Ivy Team
3)(way back, and a favorite) how Michael Jordan isn't really a PG, and oh, if he's not, then then Wallace Prather must be All-Ivy

We should have a little retrospective, in his honor. Too bad there is no Rivals archive.
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
09-19-16 11:23 PM - Post#210589    

Agree totally. Don't forget that Newman Center atmosphere. Second to nothing including the overrated Palestra. Or was that just for hockey? Lol!
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
09-20-16 08:06 AM - Post#210599    

You know that Penn basketball has hit rock bottom when we long for the days of BRF.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
09-20-16 01:04 PM - Post#210609    

I was a little suspicious when "GoBigGreenBasketball" on the Dartmouth board started asking about the Blue Ribbon basketball preview.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
09-20-16 02:56 PM - Post#210615    

While we're channeling BRF, I'll go ahead and bet heavily against Whyte to Penn. I wish I had something particularly outrageous to say to accompany that, but I do not.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
09-20-16 03:31 PM - Post#210616    

If you really were channeling BRF, you would only say that after you read elsewhere that Whyte had chosen another school and claimed you had broken the story.
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
09-20-16 06:04 PM - Post#210626    

You know, I think that pesky BRF added something to the board. The problem is that he is similar to the old Jeff2SF (not the affable current Jeff2SF) who refused to lose an argument or even just let a thread lie still in disagreement.

But like Jeff2SF, he actually had good points. He did predict Cornell getting good before any of us saw it coming.
T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts 1169
09-20-16 07:32 PM - Post#210630    

It just took him ten years to do it.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
09-20-16 07:55 PM - Post#210631    

yeah i don't know if this will ruin my newly good name, but in terms of being on to something, I kinda feel this was a broken clock being right twice a day or like if you predict the world's coming to an end enough times, eventually you'll be right. what? no that has nothing to do with my opinions on trump and his current position on fivethirtyeight.com. shut up, you're reading into me.
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
09-21-16 02:50 AM - Post#210634    

Jeff2SF, I don't know what the heck you are talking about. But I will give you credit that you stuck to your guns that Penn would suck each of the last several years. You gave no credit to the eye test and optimism of some of us. And you were right. Any predictions for this season?
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
09-21-16 08:17 AM - Post#210638    

Who didn't think we would suck the last 2 years according to the eye test? Especially after Hicks left (although we still were better than we were with Hicks under Jerome). The obvious upcoming suck-o-rama was why I stopped doing the Report Cards---it is impossible to enjoy doing something like that when they were going to be obviously a bottom dweller. Jeff certainly saw it too, but I don't recall anyone thinking we were going to be good the last 2 years. Don't you remember the outrage when the undisclosed Jerome extension was revealed after Calhoun was hired?
20Penn14
Senior
Posts 364
09-21-16 05:46 PM - Post#210677    

Evan Daniels ‏@EvanDaniels
Daron Russell chose Rhode Island this evening. Impressive pull for Dan Hurley. Russell shoots it well from deep & is a competitive kid.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
09-21-16 06:05 PM - Post#210679    

Jeff guessed "Walter Whyte to Davidson," but he no doubt meant "Jamir Harris to Minnesota":

Verbal Commits
2017 Patrick (NJ) G Jamir Harris has committed to Minnesota.

While I'm here, Jarrod Simmons is visiting Brown this weekend:

Rivals Nation
Big Rivals weekend ahead. Jarrod Simmons will be taking an official visit to Brown while Wabissa Bede an official visit to Virginia Tech.

mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
09-21-16 06:13 PM - Post#210680    

Steve was up in Canada visiting Danilo Djuricic this week, though.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
09-21-16 06:14 PM - Post#210681    

He probably read some tweets calling him a potential big-time player for Harvard.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
09-21-16 11:37 PM - Post#210693    

Although it would be a huge recruit for Penn, Djuricic not committing to Harvard this weekend on his OV has to give some hope....
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
09-23-16 07:28 AM - Post#210770    

I'd be shocked if Harvard didn't win out here. When it comes to hope, I'd want to survive a following weekend before reading too much into when a commitment happens. They usually get announced sometime the next week, not necessarily while on site for the visit.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
09-23-16 07:52 AM - Post#210771    

The trend recently that I've seen has been for guys to commit on campus. I was thinking that if Harvard wowed him so much that he would commit on the spot. Now seeing that he's committing today, I agree with you and am hard pressed not to think it's Harvard.

Penn has been offering and targeting a lot of high profile players for 2018 and beyond. They've offered a 2020 PG and are visiting a 4* 2018 PG today. It looks like they're stepping up the pursuit of these players which is a great thing for the future. Steve and his staff have shown that they can bring in higher level recruits and now they're raising the bar even more.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
09-23-16 07:53 AM - Post#210772    

Djuricic is announcing his commitment this afternoon, which suggests Harvard to me.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
09-23-16 08:00 AM - Post#210773    

On a separate note, Boston College was in yesterday to see Jarrod Simmons at his new school (probably his home public school since he left Cushing) in PA.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
09-23-16 02:23 PM - Post#210790    

Simmons is at Brown this weekend.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
09-23-16 03:25 PM - Post#210793    

As expected, Danilo Djuricic committed to Harvard.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 847
09-23-16 05:01 PM - Post#210802    

Not sure @ the excitement on this one other than that he didn't choose. He'll be one of seven forwards on Harvard's roster, many of whom are more highly rated. His video isn't awe inspiring. If we get Simmons I don't think we'll miss this guy.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
09-23-16 06:26 PM - Post#210803    

It's the reclassification. He'd have had a ton of high-major offers in 2018. He was ranked the No. 2 Canadian prospect in 2018 before the reclass in an 18 class that included a couple of Top 50 kids and some other 3- and 4-stars.

Averaging double-digits with high efficiency in 20ish minutes a game for CIA Bounce and Canada's U17 team is quite the accomplishment. The scouting reads I'm getting on him seem to peg him to the 100-150 range in the 2017 class, and it's generally agreed that he's the best recruit in this class thus far. Again - not my take, I'm not a scout (though I can appreciate a 40% 3-pt shooter across high-level competitions).
20Penn14
Senior
Posts 364
09-27-16 02:16 PM - Post#210908    

@PatLawless_
R.J. Cole has committed to Howard University


20Penn14
Senior
Posts 364
09-27-16 07:12 PM - Post#210915    

Julius Kim ‏@JKim97
Penn & WVU were in today to see 2017 F @jarrodsimmons11 of @RivalsNation.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
10-04-16 12:50 AM - Post#211145    

Per Twitter, Italian PG/SG is down to Santa Clara, Columbia, and Penn:

Riccardo De Angelis ‏@RicDeAnge
Italian combo guard @Gabe_Stefanini ('99) has cut his list of schools down to 3 http://goo.gl/exCyG3 by @Italhoop (plus image of 3 school logos I mentioned above)
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
10-04-16 09:40 AM - Post#211146    

'99... his birth year?

Oh god, what am I even doing on here?
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
10-04-16 05:59 PM - Post#211166    

Walter Whyte just committed to BU.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
10-04-16 06:01 PM - Post#211167    

Yeah, that one wasn't happening. Jarrod Simmons still could, though.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
10-04-16 06:57 PM - Post#211170    

Bummer but Whyte did read as more of a long shot based on complicating factors (that others have covered here). Have to give Joe Jones credit though - he can def recruit. Always seems to underperform when he gets the kids, but he does get them.

Still hopeful about Simmons and curious who else out there we might be after.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
10-07-16 10:32 AM - Post#211260    

  • pennhoops Said:
Walter Whyte just committed to BU.






Pennhoops... I always thought it would be Besnoah. But it's the smarter play, Pennhoops was always the smarter one.

Okoro Dude
Senior
Posts 309
10-07-16 12:11 PM - Post#211271    

Feels like adding Simmons to the other three commits would make it a pretty successful year (on paper, granted). I'll take quality over quantity especially considering the 18 frosh-juniors we already have fighting for minutes.
nychoops
Junior
Posts 239
10-08-16 11:30 AM - Post#211311    

Simmons is a really good player....my understanding is Penn has legit interest in 2 other players that I haven't seen mentioned....one is kinda interesting and one is really, really good. Again what both makes this league interesting and frustrating to me as a "new" fan is coaches have to deal with things my son-in law couldn't fathom as recruiting is hard enough. Shoot Urban Meyer turned down ND because of the acedemic standards there so I could only imagine the issues involved here.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
10-08-16 12:40 PM - Post#211313    

Hi nyc - thanks for insight as always. Based on that it sounds like it would be fantastic to get Simmons and unnamed player #2 to make for a heck of a class. Fingers crossed here.
20Penn14
Senior
Posts 364
10-08-16 07:14 PM - Post#211320    

Alright nychoops, I'll bite.
Will you name the two players Penn has interest in? And do you know their level of interest in Penn?
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
10-08-16 07:32 PM - Post#211322    


Also nyc, any idea when Simmons might be making his decision?
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
10-08-16 08:09 PM - Post#211323    

follow up question, why do bad things happen to good programs?
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
10-08-16 08:26 PM - Post#211324    

I don't know if this qualifies as a thing, or, if it is, as bad, but Jordan Salzman is no longer listed on Penn's Verbal Commits page. I know nothing about this, it could be a bug. Or.
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
10-08-16 09:01 PM - Post#211325    


Karma?
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
10-08-16 11:25 PM - Post#211330    

The one that I heard about that isn't mentioned is Aidan Igiehon, however he's class of 2019.

Maybe nychoops will enlighten us or just keep the tease going longer...
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
10-10-16 04:06 PM - Post#211397    

(LOOK AWAY JEFF)

Verbal Commits ‏@VerbalCommits 26m26 minutes ago
2017 Bergen Catholic (NJ) G Gabriele Stefanini has committed to Columbia. (HT @PatLawless_)
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
10-11-16 06:44 PM - Post#211433    

Jarrod Simmons official visit on Friday, per Twitter.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
10-11-16 08:05 PM - Post#211439    

guys i just spent 9 minutes on jarrod simmons twitter page and I don't want to get too excited but the man just followed Eddie and Jelani and was tweeting with jelani who was working on him on Friday.


Don't you dare, pennhoops or besnoah, point out that he follows 900+ other people and that this means nothing.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
10-11-16 08:15 PM - Post#211440    

Wow. Nine minutes. I admire your commitment.


Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
10-11-16 08:26 PM - Post#211441    


Well done my man! He's already been here on an unofficial right?
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
10-11-16 10:48 PM - Post#211443    

Some fine investigative reporting there.

Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
10-12-16 02:00 AM - Post#211444    

Simmons seems to be a very impressive specimen and he is far stronger than a typical Freshman. He has a nice mid-range shot. I loved reading that he has a passion around rebounding.

Here is an interview (and it a linked video) of him:
http://endlessmotor.net/2016/06/12/getting-to -know...

He didn't mention Penn on this. Fingers crossed for Simmons or mystery recruit #2 to join on board.

Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
10-12-16 07:38 AM - Post#211445    

would have been 10 minutes but I had to google the word "lit"


i really am starting to question my life choices.
nychoops
Junior
Posts 239
10-12-16 09:05 AM - Post#211446    

His decision from my understanding will come before the start of his Sr season if not MUCH sooner. My other understanding is IF its an ivy it will be Penn(edging out Yale)..
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
10-12-16 09:22 AM - Post#211450    

  • Jeff2sf Said:
Don't you dare, pennhoops or besnoah, point out that he follows 900+ other people and that this means nothing.



okay but he didn't tweet with anyone from brown or bc or princeton before his visits...
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
10-12-16 09:33 AM - Post#211451    

Jeff, thanks for investigative journalism well above and beyond the call of duty.

Keeping fingers crossed.

mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
10-12-16 09:37 AM - Post#211452    

This one's going to be really fun. I wouldn't expect anything immediately following the weekend. I'd imagine later this month is the earliest we could see anything, unless both sides want to gamble.
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 58
10-12-16 10:00 AM - Post#211453    

Yale may be done with their recruiting for 2017. James usually limits his classes to 4-5 players and seeing that they're at 5 already, with 2 of them being bigs, I would be shocked if they took anyone else, especially Simmons.

Any info on any recruits that aren't mentioned on Verbal Commits? It was alluded to earlier, that there are some high profile recruits not previously reported that Penn is heavily involved with...
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
10-12-16 10:10 AM - Post#211454    

Yeah... he's not going to Yale. Brown is a player, but not Yale.
nychoops
Junior
Posts 239
10-12-16 10:32 AM - Post#211455    

My uncomfortable nature with addressing the timeline is it clearly insinuates his academic/test score issues ... perhaps this is well known but perhaps going forward I will refrain from any situation until said issues are resolved. And again mrjames would most likely know better...while I recently heard Yake as his backup ivy if he says Brown I would think Brown. But I do FIRMLY believe should things"workout" he will be at Penn
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
10-12-16 10:54 AM - Post#211457    

Agreed on all accounts.
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
10-12-16 11:59 AM - Post#211460    

I respect any young person with Div. 1 hoops skills and a strong desire to find the best academic opportunity for themselves. My respect rises even further if they are willing to be patient and grind through whatever it takes to make it happen.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
10-12-16 12:08 PM - Post#211461    

So, reading between the lines (and consistent with what I have heard) if Simmons gets the test score he needs to get into an acceptable AI range (i.e. above the floor), then Penn is the Ivy option, and may be the top of his overall list.

Looks like he has great options either way.
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12480
10-12-16 01:44 PM - Post#211462    

  • Jeff2sf Said:
would have been 10 minutes but I had to google the word "lit"


i really am starting to question my life choices.


That one had me busting out laughing. The fact that I knew what lit meant also has me doing the same from the life choice standpoint, because it is purely from listening to fantasy sports podcasts. These yutes today...

As far as the topic at hand, fingers crossed...This one would really get us excited.
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12480
10-12-16 02:17 PM - Post#211465    

Scratch that last comment. I'm already really excited. This one would put me over the top. The idea of a constantly rocking Palestra again has me grinning.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
10-14-16 09:27 AM - Post#211520    

Someone in the 247 prediction hive has weighed in on Simmons:

http://247sports.com/Player/Jarrod-Simmons -84338
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
10-14-16 03:00 PM - Post#211534    

Clearly that guy saw the Twitter exchange that Jeff was tracking!

Who am I kidding, I saw it too and even retweeted it. :-)
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
11-08-16 10:17 AM - Post#212676    

Don't just stand there; say something!!!

If I could change anything about this often cruel world, it would be that the myth of no news being good news is just that. So either stop perpetuating this lie or start having good news come from no news.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
11-08-16 10:40 AM - Post#212677    

I know you're not specifically talking to me, but either way I got nothing...
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
11-13-16 08:17 PM - Post#213191    

https://twitter.com/jarrodsimmons11/statu s/7976262...

Hey, Twitter is practically Russian to me and I'm no Kremlinologist but to me, I'm thinking...


This is gonna hurt when Besnoah tells us he committed to BC.
Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
11-13-16 09:24 PM - Post#213197    


Saw that earlier today. Sounds like good news to me comrade.




Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
11-14-16 12:49 AM - Post#213207    

His response to JW was also a positive sign.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
11-15-16 10:57 AM - Post#213258    

Remember Jordan Salzman. He signed with Arizona State. Can't be sure he has a scholie as there are so many mock NLI signings for Ivies and other non scholarship situations.
Jay O
Masters Student
Posts 547
11-15-16 11:46 AM - Post#213260    

[Sarcastic post about how we need a coaching change NOW because we're losing recruits who've long been interested in Penn]
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
11-15-16 12:18 PM - Post#213262    

The next bit from me is total wishcasting and reading between lines to see things that are not there:


Guys, I'm really encouraged by Jelani Williams leadership and work in trying to recruit Simmons. Feels very Jameer Nelson-ish.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
11-30-16 07:39 PM - Post#214479    

Someone posted about the silence around Simmons and any decision. I think that works in our favor as he hasn't committed elsewhere. I think this is Penn's to lose as long as he qualifies. Likely waiting on test score and/or fall grades. I am guessing over Christmas break or early in the new year we will have news.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 847
11-30-16 11:15 PM - Post#214527    

I think you have it correct (I have no inside knowledge on this or pretty much anything), But the fact that he didn't sign a letter of intent during the early signing period, says to me that Penn is his favored choice.
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12480
11-30-16 11:47 PM - Post#214531    

From all of the rumblings and insinuations by those in the know, there is little doubt that is the case. Let's just hope the scores work out. He (and a little bit we) deserve it.
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12480
11-30-16 11:57 PM - Post#214533    

So my buddy was at the Sidwell game last night and he gave me a bit of a scouting report on Jelani. His glaring positives are quickness, strength and an “edge.” He thinks Jelani just seems to have that killer instinct. He had an off shooting night and at the end of it he still had 20. The opposing coach actually brought up the point that you barely notice Jelani's scoring because he’s so busy distributing, is so involved all over the floor and lets the game come to him. He thinks combined with Eddie (also in that DC circuit) we have something special.

The other interesting note from the game was on a little sophomore guard who just does everything. Sticks 3’s, finishes above the trees, drops dimes and so far there is only one school showing interest. Let’s hope it stays that way for a while.
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
12-01-16 10:08 AM - Post#214547    

The Washington Post does a great job covering DC HS basketball.

Page for Jelani / Sidwell:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/allmetsports/2016-w...

Page for Eddie / Gonzaga:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/allmetsports/2016-w...

Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
12-01-16 11:03 AM - Post#214553    

I guess I'm too advanced for you all in my understanding of the situation/stages of grief.

I'd already fully priced in the idea that Penn is his number one choice. What worries me far more is that October's scores weren't where people wanted them to be. Obviously I have no idea what the scores are, how far he's off etc. He seems like a good guy and I always appreciate someone going through so much effort for us when he clearly has other options. I really hope it works out for us (he'll be fine, a scholarship from Boston College is nothing to sneeze at)
nychoops
Junior
Posts 239
12-01-16 11:37 AM - Post#214560    

Not sure if this helps or hurts the waiting anxiety but heard he's looking like an absolute beast(not sure if everyone knows but left Cushing to go back home to Moon HS)(.....text was this
"kid has matured physically and mentally. Total warrior. He's playing top 75 now. Full on motor."
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
12-01-16 12:06 PM - Post#214567    

If he has already made the decision for Penn, then he may be waiting for the December test date to prepare as much as possible. If he was hoping for the option of Penn but still considering BC, et al, then every test date makes sense. But when you know you have to get XX on a test, sometimes it's better to prepare so you can get what you need. So I wouldn't take no news from October as a bad thing....Of course this is all just speculation
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
12-08-16 03:13 AM - Post#215150    

Looks like Jelani William's team got first loss of the season tonight 57-54. There are some clips on Twitter and Jelani looks good with 23 points. The kicker is that if I'm reading right, Sidwell Friends missed 18?! FTs (they missed 5 more FTs than the opposing team shot) and Jelani missed 8 of those FTs (7-15). Looks like he has great court vision but hope he can work on those FTs before next year!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/allmetsports/2016-w...
mbaprof
Senior
Posts 342
12-08-16 07:32 AM - Post#215152    

more info on this
http://www.newsday.com/sports/high-school/bo ys-bas...

Says that after Jerome left he started looking around and Hurley wanted him at AS.
Penn7277
PhD Student
Posts 1365
12-08-16 11:42 AM - Post#215184    

How much of a loss is he?
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
12-08-16 12:02 PM - Post#215187    

I see no evidence that Hurley offered Salzman an athletic scholarship to go to ASU so he has to be a walk-on.

Last year he was All-State Honorable Mention in Class C, which is a small school division. Class C runs 8 teams deep before you get to Honorable Mention and there are something like 50 HM players listed.

Salzman is listed at 5'10".

Salzman would have to up his game by a lot to be as good as Jackson Donahue is.

91Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1124
12-08-16 12:16 PM - Post#215192    

Agreed. There is no mention of Salzman signing with Arizona State on recruiting sites, ASU boards, or anyplace besides Newsday. The article carefully does not use the word scholarship. I believe that TL has the right assessment.
nychoops
Junior
Posts 239
12-08-16 03:23 PM - Post#215214    

No disrespect to what I'm sure is a fine young man but I have seen him play a few times and he isn't a Pac -12 player...hes not an ivy player ...that said I wish him the best of luck in and off the court
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
12-16-16 07:57 PM - Post#216071    

A twitter thread from last night:

Brian Batko
Moon senior forward Jarrod Simmons had 23 points, 11 rebounds and 5 blocks in a win tonight. He's pretty good, and really unselfish. #WPIAL

Michael Kudis
@BrianBatko what's his recruiting interest? Seeing Ivy League, plus Providence & BC. Duquesne should be on full court press for him.

Brian Batko ‏
@MichaelKudis Last I heard, wants to go Ivy. Did have BC and Temple offer too. And Pitt was/maybe still is interested.

https://twitter.com/BrianBatko/status/809 576398021...
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
12-16-16 09:27 PM - Post#216072    

Buried the lead there bro.

Cus this happened next.

https://mobile.twitter.com/_JWill2_/status/80959 19...
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
12-16-16 09:35 PM - Post#216074    

Story remains the same. I think he ends up in the Ivy. If the Ivies in general can get the remaining big fish over the AI bar, the 2017 class is going to close HARD and be every bit as good as the 2016 class.

I always root for the kids who are super close to Ivy admission and take the hard way - testing and testing for admission rather than opting for the full ride at a decent to strong non-Ivy academic school.
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
12-16-16 10:33 PM - Post#216075    

Which one of you is WarDog Johnson?

Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
12-16-16 11:09 PM - Post#216076    


Oh but ya doesn't have to call me Johnson!
nychoops
Junior
Posts 239
12-16-16 11:28 PM - Post#216077    

Heard the kid has improved and is playing at a really high level. Him and AJ down low would be a really tough combo. Don't know much about he AI or politics involved but did hear what MRJames said....their are more than one HIGHLY skilled players on the cusp of playing in the league next year .
QHoops
Senior
Posts 368
12-17-16 12:13 AM - Post#216078    

OK, I'll ask the obvious question. Is Penn in play for anyone in addition to Simmons?
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
12-17-16 03:33 AM - Post#216084    

Very interest nychoops. I know Mike James is still dropping hints about Mo Bamba being possible for Harvard. Are you talking THAT HIGHLY skilled?

By all accounts it seems like we have a fantastic shot to get a commitment from Simmons if he can get to where he needs to be. Really rooting he gets there for all the hard work that goes into it. Adding him into the mix with AJ upfront and adding Williams in the guard mix would be really interesting next year.

Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
12-17-16 03:55 AM - Post#216087    

Reading that original exchange on Twitter, from that 23 point game he made 3 triples. Saw another user comment he played great D and shot free throws well in another game. Sounds perfect for Donahue's approach and sure hope we get to see him in red and blue.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
12-17-16 10:28 AM - Post#216091    

I need this.

Very pessimistic I get it.

To the point that I'm half expecting him to get the score and then commit to brown.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
12-17-16 12:26 PM - Post#216093    

For the sake of my own mental health, I'm assuming he'll go elsewhere.

Sorry.


Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts 1601
12-17-16 01:47 PM - Post#216097    


For God's sake guys tis the season to be jolly and all that. Have a snort, that's a drink btw not something else for all you millennials, or whatever your pleasure but have some faith. As negative as I can be even I think this is going to go our way. ACT scores come out the 20th.
JHG722
Freshman
Posts 62
JHG722
12-23-16 02:43 AM - Post#216481    

  • besnoah Said:
A twitter thread from last night:

Brian Batko
Moon senior forward Jarrod Simmons had 23 points, 11 rebounds and 5 blocks in a win tonight. He's pretty good, and really unselfish. #WPIAL

Michael Kudis
@BrianBatko what's his recruiting interest? Seeing Ivy League, plus Providence & BC. Duquesne should be on full court press for him.

Brian Batko ‏
@MichaelKudis Last I heard, wants to go Ivy. Did have BC and Temple offer too. And Pitt was/maybe still is interested.

https://twitter.com/BrianBatko/status/809 576398021...



We're out of scholarships.
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
12-24-16 01:15 AM - Post#216572    

Saw this.

http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2016/12/p...

I couldn't tell too much about Simmons from the video - not enough captured on film. He was #23.

Hoping for Simmons at Penn soon!
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
12-29-16 04:17 AM - Post#216901    

Some bad news on Williams below... really hope for him that it isn't something too serious...

@MarcusHelton
No Penn commit Jelani Williams for Sidwell tonight; suffered knee injury in practice on Monday, return date unknown. #DMVhoops #GovChallenge
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
12-31-16 03:31 AM - Post#217072    

Looks like Eddie Scott had a good game against #1 team:

@PrepCircuit
@_tmeddie Eddie Scott: 18 PTS, 3 REB for Gonzaga (DC) vs Sierra Canyon @GonzagaHoops @LSInvitational prepcircuit.com/game/show/1647…
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
01-04-17 10:27 AM - Post#217307    

simmons article. the 20th was a couple weeks ago


http://www.timesonline.com/sports/high_school/ba sk...
nychoops
Junior
Posts 239
01-04-17 12:21 PM - Post#217313    

I know of three power 5 schools that have offered in past few weeks .... no insight or information as to what direction he's leaning
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
01-04-17 12:24 PM - Post#217314    

Fargle.

Bargle.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
01-04-17 12:27 PM - Post#217315    

  • Jeff2sf Said:
Fargle.

Bargle.



He had offers from Texas, Pitt, Ga. Tech before starting to lean Ivy so it's not like the influence is new.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
01-04-17 12:32 PM - Post#217317    

of course you're right but each day that he doesn't announce/each day that he doesn't get the score and another perfectly fine institution of higher learning comes along with a schollie, it makes it that much less likely he'd come here and/or want to sit for a test where he already has a perfectly fine score that will get him in to perfectly fine schools. And he'd be so perfect for what we need.

I stand by both my argle's
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
01-04-17 10:48 PM - Post#217337    

This Simmons thing has me totally schpilkes.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
01-06-17 02:01 PM - Post#217474    

  • Mike Porter Said:
Some bad news on Williams below... really hope for him that it isn't something too serious...

@MarcusHelton
No Penn commit Jelani Williams for Sidwell tonight; suffered knee injury in practice on Monday, return date unknown. #DMVhoops #GovChallenge



In some bad news, I just saw on Twitter that Williams has apparently torn his ACL in practice so definitely a serious knee injury. Recovery time for that is typically about a year, right? Here's to hoping he makes a speedy recovery (and real shame he is going to miss his senior year as he was playing very well by all accounts).
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
01-06-17 02:14 PM - Post#217475    

some bad news he said as if he was talking about his wife/husband overcooking the roast.
Bryan
Junior
Posts 231
01-06-17 02:23 PM - Post#217477    

Recent article on Jarrod Simmons (I also posted this under Princeton recruiting)

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/high-school-ba ...
yoyo
Senior
Posts 354
01-06-17 02:27 PM - Post#217478    

I think we will know soon. Just a hunch not based on any fact.
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12480
01-06-17 02:28 PM - Post#217479    

Sigh...I had been checking on updates every day but the worst is confirmed...Guess it makes Antonio's return even more important.

As for Jarrod, is it new that we're still competing with Princeton for him?
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
01-06-17 04:43 PM - Post#217492    

Yeah... really feel bad for Jelani, but it seems like ACL recoveries continue to speed up and most folks get back to 100%.

Jeff - it is obviously terrible news so not taken lightly but it was a quick post while I was on the go. Next time I'll find a gif of people screaming and link to it for you if that helps.

I don't think this is going to make you feel any better, but it also looks like Eddie Scott missed his last game with a wrist injury... but I'm sure much less serious.

Now is when we need some really positive news on Simmons...
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
01-06-17 05:19 PM - Post#217495    

for the record i was only kidding. attempt at humor to mask the pain.


this should work as the gif...

http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/arrested-develo pment/i...
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
01-06-17 05:39 PM - Post#217499    

also, just to REALLY gloom it up, i get that people come back more quickly, but penn's most recent two case studies in Brooks and PLP make me feel like this is a disaster. Never saw them pre injury of course, but I was told these were high major players we got due to the injuries. They sure didn't play like high major players and before anyone says, yes, I get Jerome maybe doesn't get the most out of everyone but you'd expect a certain amount of athleticism from "high major" players that I don't think was evident with either.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
01-06-17 05:44 PM - Post#217500    

ACL's generally are about an 8 month recovery for full go athletics, though that can vary from 6 months to 10 months depending on the individual. This shouldn't slow Jelani down from participating in full workouts next september.
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12480
01-06-17 05:45 PM - Post#217501    

Coming back stronger from an ACL injury requires an impressive work ethic, so while I can't speak for PLP, I can speak to what I've heard about Brooks and let's just say I wouldn't let that experience cause any additional apprehension. Didn't Henry get hurt while he was developing, not after his recruiting was finished? From all accounts the skills are there, so now it's just recovery.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
01-06-17 06:37 PM - Post#217508    

I think at a minimum there is some uncertainty added to the equation for the recruiting class as a result of the injury.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
01-06-17 08:00 PM - Post#217515    

  • Jeff2sf Said:
for the record i was only kidding. attempt at humor to mask the pain.


this should work as the gif...

http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/arrested-develo pment/i...



Haha, yes that gif is perfect and yes this sucks (most of all for Jelani so I'm rooting for him). Totally get you were joking and if I would have found one to share also.
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12480
01-06-17 10:04 PM - Post#217519    

I'm not happy about it but I certainly don't think the sky is falling. Unless it convinces Jarrod to look elsewhere it's just an obstacle he'll have to overcome. With everything I've heard about the type of kid he is (my buddy had a long convo with his coach last month) I'm not overly concerned.
nychoops
Junior
Posts 239
01-06-17 11:55 PM - Post#217526    

The injury will have no impact on his decision. Kid is playing at a really high level....saw the article but it failed to mention the new offer i understand he will chose if Penn is not an option. It's also my understanding that if Penn indeed is sn option that is where he will go
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
01-07-17 12:30 AM - Post#217528    

Bless you, nychoops. That's some good news. Hoping that everything works out!

Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
01-07-17 05:27 PM - Post#217557    

Nice write up in Washington Post on Jelani: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/recruiting-ins...

Sounds like a great kid and very motivated. Here's to hoping he has a quick recovery. As you can see from his stats year to date, a very dynamic player.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
01-11-17 01:32 PM - Post#217994    

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/high-school-ba s...

bonus: some talk on Carmody in 2018 batch of prospects.

"will choose between Pennsylvania and Princeton" makes me throw up a little every time.

yes I read what NYCHOOPS said but if/when pennhoops posts Simmons' commitment to Princeton, I just can't even.
Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts 586
01-11-17 03:45 PM - Post#218010    

why don't you knock it off with those negative waves?
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
01-11-17 03:48 PM - Post#218011    

i've just been hurt too many times but i'm not here to make friends. i hope simmons is here for the right reasons but if Princeton is the type of college he likes, then maybe he shouldn't even be here.





think maybe i've watched too much of the bachelor.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
01-11-17 04:14 PM - Post#218012    

Yeah... No...

In a different article there was this:

"Simmons, who's narrowed his college choices to Penn, Princeton, Temple and San Diego."

This is the first time I've seen San Diego mentioned (Temple is out of scholarships as far as I know).
T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts 1169
01-11-17 04:19 PM - Post#218015    

  • Mike Porter Said:

This is the first time I've seen San Diego mentioned.


"I've decided to take my talents to Mission Beach."

I'll show myself out.

And then shove my head in the oven.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
01-11-17 04:40 PM - Post#218016    

You know how they say you can't teach height?

Well, you can't teach weather, either.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
01-14-17 12:03 PM - Post#218265    

Jarrod Simmons was at the Palestra last night. With Princeton playing just up the road and Simmons presumably driving over from Pittsburgh, I take that as a pretty good sign.
SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts 1150
01-15-17 03:34 PM - Post#218409    

I guess the question would be whether he went to Princeton last night.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 803
01-15-17 04:43 PM - Post#218421    

FWIW, Donahue was at the Mars-Moon game described above:

https://twitter.com/mwhiteburgh/status/81 897497708...
HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts 2685
01-15-17 08:16 PM - Post#218437    

Princeton Board reporting Simmons to Penn.
Confirmation?
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
01-15-17 08:31 PM - Post#218441    

If Mike James starts a Simmons thread in CAPS on the Penn board, that's good enough for me.


Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3615
Mike Porter
01-21-17 05:07 PM - Post#218945    

Nice article about Jelani Williams leadership after this injury: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/highschools/...
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4350
01-28-17 01:49 PM - Post#219717    

Simmons had 25 and 14 in a 47-46 victory
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2801
01-28-17 11:23 PM - Post#219768    

Jeff2sf: No offense, but you seem to have a serious image problem. What's with all the nastiness? The Ps often draw from the same well. I won't make the obvious suggestion. So why the chip on your shoulder?
T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts 1169
01-28-17 11:39 PM - Post#219771    

  • Tiger69 Said:
So why the chip on your shoulder?


Don't say "Chip." That'll just set him off.
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
01-29-17 09:21 AM - Post#219784    

LOL.

Getting back to Simmons - I watched quite a few game clips of him while we were recruiting him. He looks really, really good and is playing against good opposition.

Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
02-01-17 07:05 PM - Post#220083    

Just wondering - does the recruiting class seem to be done? I recall some mentioning that there were a few more names they'd heard about. I hadn't heard if Simmons filled the last spot or if they signed on to other schools.
mrjames
Professor
Posts 6062
02-01-17 07:42 PM - Post#220088    

I don't have specific knowledge to Penn, but there are definitely more than a few Ivy targets out there that I expect to go Ivy and possibly be productive players as freshmen. So, if Penn still has slots, there are players out there to be had.

At the very least I'd expect them to need an AI booster, but I don't know what kind of latitude the program was given - maybe they don't need to worry about averaging this year.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
05-04-17 03:04 PM - Post#229051    

  • pennhoops Said:
I don't know where LeRoy, IL is (I think it's maybe near DeKalb or Rockford or possibly even closer to Galena) and this is one of the oddest lists of offers I've ever seen.

http://verbalcommits.com/players/matt-chastain



Per twitter, Matt Chastain is transferring from Loyola after just one year, a medical redshirt year at that. 4 years to play 4. Go get him Penn!

Streamers
Professor
Posts 8141
Streamers
05-05-17 10:48 AM - Post#229075    

Following in the footsteps of Dr. Calhoun?
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
05-05-17 11:09 AM - Post#229077    

  • Streamers Said:
Following in the footsteps of Dr. Calhoun?



LeRoy is nowhere near Waukegan and its demographics are drastically different to boot
Streamers
Professor
Posts 8141
Streamers
05-05-17 11:34 AM - Post#229079    

I meant from Loyola...
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3579
05-05-17 12:00 PM - Post#229080    

And Loyola Academy in Waukegan is a high school where Loyola University in Chicago is where Calhoun was AD prior to Penn. Calhoun hired the current Basketball Coach, Porter Moser.

But yes, Leroy Illinois is very different than the City of Chicago so I suspect, if its a factor, Penn wouldn't be better in that regard (being in a city environment)
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
05-05-17 01:54 PM - Post#229083    

  • PennFan10 Said:
And Loyola Academy in Waukegan is a high school where Loyola University in Chicago is



wut
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3988
05-05-17 01:58 PM - Post#229084    

Corkie Calhoun was from Waukegan and Loyola Academy is in Wilmette, not in Waukegan. This sounding like an Abbott and Costello bit.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
05-05-17 02:55 PM - Post#229087    

"Look at you, in those candy-as$ monkey suits. And I thought I had it bad in Joliet."
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3988
05-05-17 03:32 PM - Post#229088    

Both kinds of music.
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
05-05-17 04:10 PM - Post#229090    

Yeah I like both kinds of music too.

Joliet is clear on the other side of Chicago from Wilmette and Waukegan.

By the way, you have to go through Skokie to get from Loyola Academy to Loyola University.


penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
05-05-17 06:38 PM - Post#229094    

  • Old Bear Said:
Both kinds of music.



Bob's Country Bunker



Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3988
05-05-17 07:51 PM - Post#229096    

Does Lake Shore Drive go thru Skokie?
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3765
05-05-17 10:53 PM - Post#229098    

There used to be a focus group facility in Skokie that I used a lot, but it closed.
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
05-06-17 08:51 AM - Post#229100    

You'd think that should be the case.


Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3988
05-06-17 11:35 AM - Post#229103    

At the risk of disclosing my age, I actually played in the original Suburban League which included both Waukegan and Niles. Can you name the other 6?








pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
05-06-17 11:41 AM - Post#229104    

  • Old Bear Said:
Does Lake Shore Drive go thru Skokie?



No, although US-41 (which LSD is part of) does.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
05-06-17 11:43 AM - Post#229105    

  • Old Bear Said:
At the risk of disclosing my age, I actually played in the original Suburban League which included both Waukegan and Niles. Can you name the other 6?



Evanston, New Trier, Highland Park, Maine [whatever], another New Trier... Deerfield? (my geography gets dangerously fuzzy north of Lake-Cook Rd).








Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3988
05-06-17 04:59 PM - Post#229107    

Sorry Hoops, there were no N,W,E or W's in those days. Believe it or not, it was Waukegan, Highland Park, New Trier, Niles, Evanston, Oak Park, Morton and Proviso.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2470
05-06-17 08:42 PM - Post#229111    

If this includes Oak Park then Hemingway might have been a classmate so it's way out of my depth.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
05-06-17 09:09 PM - Post#229112    

  • Old Bear Said:
Does Lake Shore Drive go thru Skokie?



No--in fact, when it ends at its northern terminus you're still several miles south of Evanston.

Interestingly enough, the makers of "When Harry Met Sally" made a crucial geographic error. After Harry and Sally rendezvous at the U of C to drive to NYC, you then see them driving north on LSD with the Hancock Building in the background--this is most assuredly NOT the way to drive if they are headed to NYC.

penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
05-06-17 09:10 PM - Post#229113    

  • pennhoops Said:
If this includes Oak Park then Hemingway might have been a classmate so it's way out of my depth.



No, that is due west of Chicago. We north suburbanites never headed out that way unless it was to bury a loved one at Waldheim Cemetery.
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2801
05-07-17 04:14 AM - Post#229114    

And this is why you are the "Old" Bear.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32685
05-07-17 06:12 AM - Post#229115    

That looks a lot nicer than the industrial waste of Northern Indiana and Southern Illinois on the Chicago Skyway
TheLine
Professor
Posts 5597
05-07-17 10:52 AM - Post#229117    

I bicycled through that industrial wasteland once. Thought I was back home in Jersey. Reminded me of Linden.

penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
05-07-17 11:06 AM - Post#229118    

The worst smells we experienced on our yearly summer road trips came when driving through Gary. The NJ Turnpike has nothing on it.
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3988
05-07-17 12:58 PM - Post#229123    

Actually, my mother was at Oak Park HS when Hemingway and Frank Lloyd Wright Jr. were there.
hoopsfan
Masters Student
Posts 642
05-07-17 01:32 PM - Post#229124    

Old Bear I am just seeing your posts about the original suburban league. I played for Niles in that era. It's a great part of the world and those high schools continue to turn out student athletes at an impressive rate, some of whom make it to the Ivies.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21085
05-07-17 02:15 PM - Post#229125    

My mother was in the last graduating class of Niles before it became Niles East (when Niles West was created). Of course, Niles (East) has for a long time been closed.
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3988
05-07-17 08:20 PM - Post#229132    

The two longest bus trips I remember were Waukegan in HS and Cornell at Brown.
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3044
09-12-17 01:04 PM - Post#232797    

A Duke blog has a story up about Mike Buckmire, a 6'2: guard from Germantown Friends, who will be a walk-on for the 2017 class. The author feels he will is a hidden talent, who could earn a full scholarship for next season.

He had 1,144 career points and averaged 22.1 points, 6.1 rebounds and 4.2 assist last year. According to the article, he was recruited by IL and Division III programs.

https://balldurham.com/2017/09/12/duke-baske tball-...

CoBL has some information on him, but I don't know if he was talked about on this board. Does anyone which conference schools, if any, gave him offers and why he did not elect to go to the IL?
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
09-16-18 08:54 AM - Post#261324    

  • Jeff2sf Said:


I'm fine with giving the guy time. but the phrase that keeps popping in my head for Steve is "hyper competent" or "aggressively adequate". I've no doubt he can restore us to 150ish team. I'm very skeptical he can get us to 50-100 which is where we need to be.



I could not be more thrilled to be so WRONG WRONG WRONG. MLL may not work out. But this is the talent I want to be bringing in. Way to go Steve.
Streamers
Professor
Posts 8141
Streamers
09-16-18 12:08 PM - Post#261330    

Now that is some accountability. Nice to see - wish had that on the OTB.
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
09-16-18 01:32 PM - Post#261338    

I think the good coaches can create a great overall ecosystem for recruiting, teaching, and playing. They manage assistants and the organizational details well. I think Jerome and Voldemort had talent in specific areas, which is good for an assistant coach. As head coaches, they were only as good as their weakest link.

It winds up that "hyper competent" seems to be a really good quality in a coach, and SD seems to be exceeding all of our expectations so far. We haven't had a 150 type of recruit for a while, and especially not a big man.

Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12480
09-17-18 01:23 AM - Post#261349    

He put this in place from day one and has built a TEAM. I was also skeptical and was interested in someone with more of a name or a young up-and-comer and Steve showed me. With my takes on Doug P at the time of his hiring, I think it's best if I hold off for at least a few months after my teams make coaching hires.
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1877
09-17-18 02:16 AM - Post#261351    

  • Quakers03 Said:
He put this in place from day one and has built a TEAM. I was also skeptical and was interested in someone with more of a name or a young up-and-comer and Steve showed me. With my takes on Doug P at the time of his hiring, I think it's best if I hold off for at least a few months after my teams make coaching hires.



I thought Fran Dunphy was a terrible hire at the time he became head coach. I was scratching my head wondering how an assistant under Schneider could be worth anything. The headlines don't always tell the whole story.



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