Select "print" from your browser's "File" menu.

Back to Post
Username Post: 2018 recruiting
91Quake
Masters Student
Posts 462
12-31-16 02:11 PM - Post#217113    

Thought there was already a thread but I didn't see one so...

Middlesex Magic AAU team tweeted Cormac Ryan has over 30 offers and recently visited Penn, Yale, Stanford, and Villanova. He may be a long shot but at least we are getting some consideration.
Penndemonium
Masters Student
Posts 576
12-31-16 04:08 PM - Post#217123    

Wow. I loved his video. He would be one of the best all around players in a long time. I tried to think of Penn players he reminded me of, but in almost every case you would have needed to start the sentence with "a more athletic version of" or "a better shooting..."

Players that came to mind were Jerry Simon, Tim Begley, Jeff Schiffner, Ira Bowman, Andy Toole, Barry Pierce, Caleb Wood...

Undoubtedly would be a great prospect. We could win championships with him, our 2017 recruits, and Brodeur.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
01-01-17 05:18 PM - Post#217161    

Happy New Year everyone!

Saw this article on Twitter whete 2018 target Isaiah Kelly (3 or 4 Star, top 200 type player with P5 interest) is still mentioning Penn among many options (HYP mentioned also):

http://www.phenomhoopreport.com/news_article/show/...
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 6435
02-10-17 11:00 PM - Post#221309    

Check out these two names and the season Smyrna is putting together in DE: Caleb Wood and Zubui Nwankwo.

My buddy has some friends who are very involved in the DE high school sports world so he shared some interesting updates. I understand that we don't want to tell the whole world who we're recruiting but would it hurt for some of the Penn insiders to share what they know once in a while? We usually get our info from out of the Penn world.

It sounds like Caleb, a great shooter and their big scorer from a farm in DE, has an offer from Temple already.

Zubui (pronounced Zubi) is 7'2 and came over from Nigeria and just moved here this season from Kentucky. He has played for 4 years and just soaks up rebounds, blocks and points around the basket. My buddy was at his game last night and said his free throw form leads one to believe that there's basketball talent in his raw skill and while a project, he could really turn into a player. I think his line last night was 11-15-7. He went up against a top rated recruit over winter break and the 6'10 kid didn't know what hit him.

His dad is a prof at Del St and very much wants his son to get a good education...The story below mentions his younger brother too but he went back to KY. They're the number one team in DE and will be favored to win state. Both apparently visited and Steve has been down there.

Caleb and Zubui -Smyrna and Clayton Sun Times
Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3757
Chip Bayers
02-10-17 11:10 PM - Post#221311    

Sounds like Steve is looking for his next Jeff Foote.

T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Masters Student
Posts 715
02-10-17 11:44 PM - Post#221315    

  • Chip Bayers Said:
Sounds like Steve is looking for his next Jeff Foote.


Or the next Caleb Wood.
gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts 425
02-11-17 01:56 AM - Post#221320    

This Caleb is actually Matthews. (I auto-correct too, even when it's turned off.)
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 6435
02-11-17 03:41 AM - Post#221321    

Him too. Knew that would happen at least once. Sorry about that. Wood needs the extra pub nowadays.

There's certainly video of these two out there if really interested.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
02-19-17 03:57 PM - Post#222564    

From earlier this week, another 2018 with a HM offer list:

Julius Kim
UPenn will be in today to see 2018 G Noah Locke of @McDMBasketball, per source.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
03-05-17 02:42 PM - Post#225050    

TeamMeloBasketball
High on list for Melo 2018 G Noah Locke K.State, Marquette,Florida,Xavier, Providence,Butler St.Joe's,Stanford,Penn

Julius Kim‏
2019 guard Jalen Rucker of Team Melo will take an unofficial visit to #UPenn tomorrow, per a source.


Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
03-05-17 04:46 PM - Post#225112    

From the outside we definitely seem to be in with some very high level 2018 prospects. Its still early, but let's hope we can land a few!
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
04-17-17 10:10 AM - Post#228760    

Per VC we've offered Siddiq Bey, two-star SG from Sidwell Friends (other offers incl. Temple and URI).
20Penn14
Junior
Posts 262
04-17-17 10:28 AM - Post#228761    

If he went to Sidwell Friends, that means Bey was a high school teammate of Jelani Williams.
sparman
Masters Student
Posts 792
sparman
04-17-17 12:02 PM - Post#228764    

  • 20Penn14 Said:
If he went to Sidwell Friends, that means Bey was a high school teammate of Jelani Williams.



He was - "Batman and Robin" Siddiq Bey - Washington Post
yoyo
Sophomore
Posts 129
04-20-17 09:33 AM - Post#228819    

Has Robby Carmody signed with the Quakers yet?
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
04-20-17 04:55 PM - Post#228824    

Not sure if this is just a Carmody joke at Sparman's expense, genuine curiosity or something else, but Robby Carmody is a consensus Top 100 player with Butler, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc. offers.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
04-20-17 06:21 PM - Post#228826    

David Singleton, whom Penn had offered, committed to UCLA.

Chip Miller
Bishop Montgomery (CA) 2018 four-star guard David Singleton just committed to UCLA and head coach Steve Alford.
Penn90
Masters Student
Posts 472
Penn90
04-20-17 09:13 PM - Post#228828    

Is LaVar Ball okay with that?
Leges sine moribus vanae

besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
04-20-17 10:12 PM - Post#228832    

Actually sort of an interesting question:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/highschool/var sity-t...
nychoops
Freshman
Posts 97
05-03-17 10:31 AM - Post#229022    

Name I've heard more than a few times recently that Penn has serious interest in is Riley Battin at of Oak Park HS
yoyo
Sophomore
Posts 129
05-03-17 11:44 AM - Post#229026    

pretty impressive list of suitors.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 2909
05-03-17 12:00 PM - Post#229027    

That it is. Is there any reason to believe that Mr. Battin has any interest in Penn?
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
05-03-17 12:13 PM - Post#229028    

I'd be mildly surprised if he didn't end up in the Ivy League.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
05-03-17 06:20 PM - Post#229034    

Penn channeling George Clinton today vis a vis "the funk"

JerseyShoreWarriors‏
Univ of Penn offers Andrew Funk
Penndemonium
Masters Student
Posts 576
05-04-17 02:29 AM - Post#229039    

Wow. A lot of teams around the country could use Battin. He's got a lot of tools.
rbg
Masters Student
Posts 453
05-04-17 07:55 AM - Post#229042    

There's an interview with 4-Star junior Cormac Ryan, where he discusses the main teams in the running in his recruitment.

Unfortunately, Penn is not on that list. Yale, where his brother is a sophomore, is in that core group with Notre Dame, Michigan, Stanford, Villanova and Northwestern.

http://villanova.247sports.com/Article/Catching-Up...


besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
05-04-17 09:19 AM - Post#229044    

Penn also apparently offered Andrew Taylor, a guard from Kentucky, last night.

http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/andrew-taylor
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
05-07-17 01:26 PM - Post#229126    

DeAnte' Mitchell‏
Wichita Southeast (KS) SG Israel Barnes '18 received an offer from Penn

Only other offers appear to be Tulsa and Texas Tech.
yoyo
Sophomore
Posts 129
05-08-17 11:32 AM - Post#229138    

https://twitter.com/Ilb_12?ref_src=twsrc% 5Egoogle%...

We can work on the name of the institution after he commits.
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
05-08-17 04:11 PM - Post#229150    

His AAU team, Mokan Elite, is one of the top programs in the country. Based out KC
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
05-08-17 09:00 PM - Post#229154    

Team Loaded NC
2018 6'5 SG Trey Wertz of Providence Day has received an offer from Penn
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
05-10-17 08:11 AM - Post#229161    

Don't know what are chances are, but interesting update form the St. Joes board on Matt Cotton:

Re: 2 recruits on campus...
Monday at 10:34 PM
JameericleOn54th wrote:
PH4L- Where does Matt Cottons recruitment stand?


SJU is still very much in the picture...
Matt is doing an engineering internship at UPenn right now...

TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
05-10-17 08:32 AM - Post#229162    

It's too early to tell where this is heading but at least Coach Donahue is being aggressive with his recruiting. It's a step in the right direction.

Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
05-10-17 09:39 AM - Post#229168    

Until Jameer or Delonte Jr come to Penn, i shall never forgive SJU for Stachitas.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
05-10-17 11:33 AM - Post#229180    

LeBron's half brother is coming to Penn?


rbg
Masters Student
Posts 453
05-22-17 02:00 PM - Post#229557    

Per Verbal Commits, Penn made an offer to Ryan Young, a 2 Star 6'10" 210 lbs. PF from Stewartsville, NJ and attends Bethlehem Catholic.

He has following offers:
Ivy - Penn, Columbia, Yale
Patriot - Bucknell, Colgate, Lehigh, Lafayette, Navy, American, Boston Unviersity
A-10 - St. Joe's, La Salle, Richmond, Duquesne
CAA - Delaware, William & Mary, Towson, Elon, Drexel
Northeast - Mt. St. Mary's
America East - Stony Brook, New Hampshire

A link from last year
http://www.ncsasports.org/mens-basketball-recru iti...
10Q
Professor
Posts 12386
05-22-17 03:31 PM - Post#229558    

You can never have enough 2 Stars.
mbaprof
Freshman
Posts 65
05-22-17 04:18 PM - Post#229560    

See his self written profile below, looks like he grew from 6 7 to 6 10 and is an alter boy and wants to study business, we should have a good shot at him

My name is Ryan Young, I'm currently a 6'7" rising junior playing AAU basketball for the Jersey Shore Warriors. I attend Bethlehem Catholic HS in Bethlehem PA. I aim to continue playing at the collegiate level regardless of the division or location. I would like to attend a college that would excel in helping me pursue a career in business. I feel that I would be a strong asset to your team because of my basketball IQ, coach-able attitude, and 110% effort I bring to the court every time I play. I believe these attributes are what earned me the captain position of numerous teams I have been a part of in the past. I have been appointed captain of my basketball, football, volleyball, and lacrosse teams by my coaches and teammates. I believe that that says a lot about my character and what I bring to the team. Academically I have been in all honors classes since middle school and have a GPA of 3.2/4.0. I also participate in several groups at school like key club and peer listeners club, I volunteer regularly with my family locally, and I am an alter server at my church.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 16377
05-22-17 04:41 PM - Post#229563    

3.2 GPA and Yale made him an offer?


Times really have changed.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 9576
05-22-17 05:37 PM - Post#229564    

Out in Bethlehem they're killing time
Filling out forms
Standing in line

PS Altar server; alter kocker
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2075
05-23-17 03:58 AM - Post#229566    

Oh, he's ADORABLE. My Mom would have loved him. Member of Key Club and Peer Listeners, and he wants to be a businessman! What a dreamer!
SteveChop
Masters Student
Posts 596
05-23-17 10:28 AM - Post#229572    

Well, at least that means he won't be going to Princeton's non-existent business school.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 16377
05-23-17 10:59 AM - Post#229573    

Since when does Yale have an undergraduate business major program? They are recruiting the kid.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 2909
05-23-17 11:06 AM - Post#229574    

They're probably pitching a degree in economics. It's not the same as a business degree, but he might go for it.
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2075
05-23-17 08:30 PM - Post#229594    

True that. A lot of the biz courses that I took (at another institution of higher learning) were dumbed down liberal arts courses (Marketing, Organizational Behavior, Bus. Psych., etc.).
penn nation
Professor
Posts 9576
05-23-17 09:51 PM - Post#229596    

Interesting. My one Wharton course (Legal Studies) definitely benefited from the humanistic and liberal arts themes sprinkled throughout.

Not surprisingly, I was told later that it was the most "unWharton"ish course that existed.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 2909
05-24-17 07:44 AM - Post#229606    

With Murray Dolfman? I took that course too. He was a hoot. I can still recite the definition of consideration, so I guess I learned something.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
05-24-17 08:01 AM - Post#229608    

So we all took the same course.

I took 2 other Wharton courses. One was heavy in mathematical modeling so easy to ace for an engineering student in a room full of Whartonites. Another was in public planning, which was very fascinating but of course no Whartonites took it.

penn nation
Professor
Posts 9576
05-24-17 08:31 AM - Post#229609    

With Bauer, although others took with Dolfman.

I loved the course--he used Socratic method in a large room and was an active participant. I really hated my Talmud courses in high school (2 forty minute periods for four years...still don't care for it after all of these years) but that training really came in handy for that course and I aced it.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 16377
05-24-17 08:53 AM - Post#229615    

My favorite Socratic method story is at Columbia, where the stern Hans Smit taught Federal Civil Procedure 1 (I had Ruth Bader Ginsberg for II---snore). He worked off a seating chart and called on people, probably checking off those who have answered and moving onto others. Before classes started, the seating chart was on the wall in the hallway and students were required to put their name on a particular seat. Well, not every seat was filled in that class and some joker wrote in "P. Ness" in one unfilled box.

You can guess what happened. Smit got around to that box and asked a question, calling out, "What do you think about that, Mr. Ness? Mr. Ness? Is there a P. Ness in the classroom?" Snickers all around...and the Teutonic glare glazed over and he chuckled and said, "OK, you think that's funny?" He then destroyed the class with rapid fire Socratic questions for the next half-hour, with Kingsfield-like putdowns after each student got the answer wrong.

Other than that, law school kinda sucked (except for playing noon games at center court at Levien--those were classic).
Go Green
Junior
Posts 261
05-24-17 09:29 AM - Post#229619    

  • palestra38 Said:
(I had Ruth Bader Ginsberg for II---snore)



Funny- Stephen Breyer taught Admin Law for a year at my law school and I was told he was boring as hell.

We didn't have the imagination that your classmates had. But granted, we only had one professor who was strictly Socratic, and other than letting you hang for several painful moments if you didn't know the answer, he really wasn't a dick.
Streamers
PhD Student
Posts 1843
Streamers
05-24-17 12:30 PM - Post#229634    

  • TheLine Said:
So we all took the same course.

I took 2 other Wharton courses. One was heavy in mathematical modeling so easy to ace for an engineering student in a room full of Whartonites. Another was in public planning, which was very fascinating but of course no Whartonites took it.




I took legal studies with Dolfman it as well. I transferred to Wharton after 2 years of Engineering and this did wonders for my GPA. Were your public planning courses in the Regional Science department? I took 2 of those and they were among my favorites at Penn.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
05-24-17 12:59 PM - Post#229637    

Yes, it was the Regional Science department. I wish I could remember the professor's name. He did a lot of work with municipal governments on infrastructure projects and was on the road frequently.

rbg
Masters Student
Posts 453
05-25-17 10:52 AM - Post#229653    

Looks like Saddiq Bey has a number of other offers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/recruiting-ins...

Per Verbal Commits, his list now includes Pitt, Notre Dame, LaSalle, Davidson, Lehigh, NC State, Georgetown, Rutgers, Northwestern, Miami, George Washington, Elon, Temple, Rhode Island and Temple.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
06-05-17 09:59 AM - Post#229845    

Cormac Ryan to Stanford. Penn was not a finalist.

http://nypost.com/2017/06/04/march-madn ess-dreams-...
20Penn14
Junior
Posts 262
06-12-17 03:44 PM - Post#230005    

Julius Kim‏ @JKimElevate
2018 @NJ_RoadRunners forward Calistus Anyichie will visit Princeton on 6/13 & UPenn on 6/19.
91Quake
Masters Student
Posts 462
06-14-17 08:56 PM - Post#230097    

Andrew Funk scheduled to visit 6/16 per Julius Kim tweet.
10Q
Professor
Posts 12386
06-15-17 10:26 AM - Post#230112    

If he's a good defender, opponents will say "Get the Funk out of my face".
echo
Freshman
Posts 8
06-22-17 04:40 PM - Post#230295    

Carmody has committed to Notre Dame
20Penn14
Junior
Posts 262
06-24-17 06:53 PM - Post#230343    

Julius Kim‏ @JKimElevate
Josh Alexander, a 2018 forward playing with @teamrionational, will take unofficial visits to Temple on 6/24 & UPenn on 6/25.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
06-25-17 10:28 PM - Post#230353    

Prep Hoops Michigan
2018 6'6 Divine Child/Reach Legends SF Quinn Blair picks up an offer from Penn. His 8th D1 offer. Top 15 player in state. Congrats!
1979Quakers
Freshman
Posts 19
07-07-17 03:58 PM - Post#230597    

I don't know if this has been posted but, according to Verbal Commits, SG Dwayne Cohill has removed the Quakers from consideration.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
07-12-17 08:51 AM - Post#230798    

The always excellent Josh Verlin from COBL had some interesting thoughts on Penn's (and other Philly schools') roster and recruiting needs in 2018.

http://www.cityofbasketballlove.com/news_article/s...

yoyo
Sophomore
Posts 129
07-12-17 01:26 PM - Post#230814    

Matt Cotton would be a great get
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 2909
07-12-17 03:44 PM - Post#230833    

I can't say I agree that Penn doesn't need much from the upcoming recruiting class. And I certainly hope that's not the attitude the coaching staff is taking.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 16377
07-12-17 03:57 PM - Post#230834    

I came away from that thinking we were in better shape than Villanova.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 2909
07-12-17 04:36 PM - Post#230841    

Is it my imagination, or did Matt Cotton's rating just go from 2 to 4 stars.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 9576
07-12-17 04:48 PM - Post#230843    

Historically, the price of Cotton has risen during times of internal conflict.
gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts 425
07-12-17 09:10 PM - Post#230851    

I don't think the price of Cotton Mathers.
gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts 425
07-12-17 09:10 PM - Post#230852    

Sorry.
T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Masters Student
Posts 715
07-12-17 09:46 PM - Post#230854    

Don't apologize. That was magnificent.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 2909
07-12-17 09:53 PM - Post#230855    

You people should all be ashamed of yourselves.
20Penn14
Junior
Posts 262
07-15-17 11:05 AM - Post#230932    

According to COBL, Calistus Anyichie is receiving interest from Penn

http://www.cityofbasketballlove.com/news_article/s...
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
07-17-17 07:32 PM - Post#230983    

Happy 5th anniversary to COBL.

Josh, COBL continues to be my #1 go-to college hoops site. The world has too many lawyers and not enough people who do what you do.


The Pine
Freshman
Posts 33
07-17-17 11:25 PM - Post#230985    

Does anyone know the current status of Jelsni Williams? Didn't he have an ACL tear. Or am I wrong?

Tx
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
07-17-17 11:58 PM - Post#230986    

He had an ACL tear and has been training during his recovery. From what I know he is wearing a brace and working out regularly. He won't be cleared to play until he can work out without the brace. Don't know when that will be but should be before official practices begin. I have heard he looks very good, albeit without having played in any of the pickup games.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
07-18-17 07:51 AM - Post#230989    

Jelani had a training video up about 2 weeks after his injury. Seems to be highly motivated.

pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
07-19-17 12:42 PM - Post#231056    

Justin Byerly‏
@JustinByerly

Penn has offered Kris Wooten from Stackhouse Elite.

2*. Other offer is Fordham.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
07-19-17 01:33 PM - Post#231064    

Another:

2018 St. Maria Goretti (MD) G Amir Harris has received an offer from Penn. @Harris5Amir http://verbalcommits.com/players/amir-harris

6-5 pg (interesting). 2*, offers from lots of east coast low to mids.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
07-19-17 03:19 PM - Post#231076    

these sound a little less... "choosy".. then maybe i thought we were being after JMVERLIN's article.

but whatever, it's hot out.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
07-19-17 10:29 PM - Post#231098    

Penn mentioned in this bit on Noah Kirkwood:

"Kirkwood is currently an Ivy League priority as Harvard, Yale and Penn would love to find a way to add the talented Canadian. However, the Brookwood Elite product spoke highly of Notre Dame, Texas and Vanderbilt, too, as many others are expected to enter the picture for the versatile forward."

https://basketballrecruit ing.rivals.com/news/stock...

mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
07-20-17 09:23 AM - Post#231103    

The scouting services seem to be catching up now, but he's deserved to be a Top 100 kid info the 2017/2018 class for a long time now. If he demonstrated a consistent 3-point shot, he'd be a five-star kid going to Duke or something, but as it stands, he's a dead ringer for a more physically imposing Wesley Saunders. Same playmaking skills for others while being almost impossible to keep from getting to where he wants to go in the lane.

There have been some really good, ready-for-primetime freshmen to come into the league recently, but he is more ready than basically all of them.
nychoops
Freshman
Posts 97
07-20-17 09:45 AM - Post#231107    

From what I heard this week Harvard perhaps has a shot but I would think ND, Wisco, UVA
20Penn14
Junior
Posts 262
07-22-17 10:03 AM - Post#231172    

From COBL:
http://www.cityofbasketballlove.com/news_article/s...

Mezie Offurum is in contact with Penn
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
07-22-17 05:26 PM - Post#231178    

Per St Joe's board, Yale has offered Matt Cotton now: http://www.scout.com/college/saint-josephs /forums/...


rbg
Masters Student
Posts 453
07-24-17 08:09 PM - Post#231215    

Princeton just received a 2018 commitment from PG Jaelin Llewellyn (4 Stars). He had many offers including Northwestern, Minnesota, Purdue, Virginia, Florida, Creighton, Providence, URI, Cincinnati, Stanford, and Harvard.

Looking at the 2018 commits throughout the league:
Jaelin Llewellyn PG (4 Stars) - Princeton
Spencer Freeman PG (4 Stars) - Harvard
Taurus Samuels PG (3 Stars) - Dartmouth
Eze Dike-Nwagbara PG (2 Stars) - Yale
David Mitchell SG (2 Stars) - Brown

With the improvement in league-wide recruiting, it would be good if Penn could seal the deal with one of the 11 players they have given offers.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
07-26-17 11:25 AM - Post#231313    

From VC:

Rasir Bolton committed to Penn State
Penn offered Quinn Blair, 2* SF from Detroit, mostly mid, lowmid offers.

There are still a couple of top-100 types on the list (hey, Matt Cotton) and a few names that have yet to emerge but the trend so far this summer, at least in terms of the offers known publicly, seems to be down.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 729
07-26-17 03:42 PM - Post#231326    

With 22 on the roster this year & 16 of them back next year, we need 1 or 2 quality recruits, not 4 to 6 in the class.
Glenflesk
Freshman
Posts 57
07-26-17 04:21 PM - Post#231328    

Unless the 4-6 are better than 10 of the ones we already have.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 2909
07-26-17 05:06 PM - Post#231330    

  • section110 Said:
With 22 on the roster this year & 16 of them back next year, we need 1 or 2 quality recruits, not 4 to 6 in the class.



If the staff is able to nail down some three or four star recruits, I agree with that statement. However, if they're only able to bring in two star recruits, they might need 4-6 of them in order to yield 1-2 impact players.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
07-26-17 05:32 PM - Post#231331    

This is the first time in I don't know how long when Penn's roster is stocked with legitimately useful players vs. filler material. We obviously don't know enough about the incoming Freshmen or even a couple of the Sophs-to-be but you can make a reasonable argument that pretty much all of the returnees have the potential of making an impact (not saying that all ultimately will). That's progress though we're still not where we need to be and there's room for recruiting impact players.

There are 5 seniors on the team. There's definitely room for a few talented recruits.

Penndemonium
Masters Student
Posts 576
07-26-17 10:32 PM - Post#231335    

While the team is more solid, it is partly because of the depths the team is coming from. I think a team needs two all-league type of players to be a true contender.

AJ Brodeur is the only Penn player that may fit that bill right now. I like Betley, Goodman, and Woods a lot, but I don't think they are all-Ivy dominant players. I'm hoping that some of the Frosh will provide this.
gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts 425
07-26-17 10:45 PM - Post#231336    

You're right. We don't have a go-to, end-of-game player (like Rosen). If we're hoping for one of the frosh to step up, we're far away from the Promised Land.

I mean, this past season SD was using Foreman in the Rosen role. This team is still full of mis-matched parts.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
07-27-17 07:38 AM - Post#231342    

  • section110 Said:
With 22 on the roster this year & 16 of them back next year, we need 1 or 2 quality recruits, not 4 to 6 in the class.



This class will undoubtedly be smaller than last but there is still a rising quality of recruit league-wide that we need to keep up with. Whether or not we do that is still in question.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
07-28-17 10:25 AM - Post#231375    

everything pennhoops says is true. but i'm less worried than last year. he brought in some legit talents, he did it a little later than i thought he would. i get it, not only does he have to do it each year, he has to raise his game further than last year. on a consistent basis.

I'm just not as freaked out about it. Now, if Betley isn't as good as I thought he could be this year or if none of the freshmen start by season end, then i'll be pretty worried regardless of the hype/lack thereof for 2018 class.







PLEASE, GOD, LET JARROD AND AJ START IN THE FRONTCOURT FOR THREE YEARS!
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
07-28-17 04:22 PM - Post#231392    

As I said last year, I think it will be more difficult for Penn in 2018 and beyond as the AI floor is now at 183, trimming a decent portion of the pool that used to exist where Penn could take multiple kids and HYP could take, at most, one. I'm sure the coaching staff will adjust, but it's worth watching.
Penndemonium
Masters Student
Posts 576
07-29-17 12:10 AM - Post#231397    

mrjames, can you refresh me on a few things regarding the AI...

Was the AI floor raised for the whole league? Was it raised proportionately for the different schools or more for some than others?

Also, who makes the decision? Is it 1 vote per school and majority wins?

I am not asking to immediately complain about the answers. I was just wondering.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
07-29-17 06:53 AM - Post#231398    

Whole league across the board from 178 to 183. I have no clue how it affects the football banding...

I believe it's a presidents decision, but I don't know the ins and outs of that piece of it. I just hear about it happening, not the how.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
07-29-17 08:35 AM - Post#231399    

  • mrjames Said:
As I said last year, I think it will be more difficult for Penn in 2018 and beyond as the AI floor is now at 183, trimming a decent portion of the pool that used to exist where Penn could take multiple kids and HYP could take, at most, one. I'm sure the coaching staff will adjust, but it's worth watching.



But HYP have already demonstrated there are 3+* kids out there comfortably above the floor. Penn did need to dip a little bit in the last two seasons but it isn't as though it's 178 or bust.
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
07-29-17 11:33 AM - Post#231401    

To quantify this (approximately) as I understand it. Moving the AI floor from 178 to 183 means a given recruit needs 1 more point on the ACT than previously OR about .25 higher on their GPA (on a 4pt scale).

It's probably a lot easier to move an ACT score 1 pt higher than it is to move your GPA up .25 (e.g. from 3.1 to 3.3). For SA's near the floor that's more challenging but not impossible.

HARVARDDADGRAD
Masters Student
Posts 833
07-29-17 12:42 PM - Post#231402    

It's a big deal if a recruit worked hard to barely get to 178 (or thereabouts) in the first place.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
07-29-17 04:22 PM - Post#231403    

Definitely a good flag from Mike as I'd forgotten about that.

I like that Jeff isn't concerned. There is still a lot of time, but clearly Harvard and Princeton are off to a good start. Would be nice if we can land one of our primary targets early too. Seems like our best hope is Matt Cotton.

What is more concerning is that all the new offers for 2018 seem to be lower level 2* guys...

I'm not worried yet, but let's see where things are by end of the summer.
Penndemonium
Masters Student
Posts 576
07-30-17 06:00 AM - Post#231405    

I understand the Ivy concerns about academics, but it's sad that a person is reduced to such numbers. I think Jerome had problems with his test scores and had to re-take. Everything I heard was that he worked hard at the books. I had some team-mates in a similar situation who wound up to be solid students. You can't measure fire in the belly through AI, but you can discriminate against minorities, economically disadvantaged, and foreigners. Congrats to the Ivy Presidents on that.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
07-30-17 07:07 AM - Post#231406    

Bingo. The AI is a silly construct given all we know about test scores and given how GPAs differ across schools, but luckily (or unluckily for us sports fans) many institutions are going above and beyond to keep kids out who are indeed AI qualified. (The opposite - taking kids under the bar who demonstrate they genuinely care about learning and the Ivy experience - would be nice as a balance, but alas...).

The good news is that, with the incentive structure of FinAid, Ivies are working hard to get the demographics that are often discriminated against in the testing process across the bar, because the ability to provide a quasi-full-ride makes matriculation more likely. Whereas the richer folks among us can get their kids tons of test prep classes to artificially raise their scores, but then are less likely to commit because they'd have to pay full.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 729
07-30-17 09:37 AM - Post#231407    

Amen
penn nation
Professor
Posts 9576
07-30-17 11:29 AM - Post#231408    

Legacy admissions, and/or uberwealthy folks donating a ton of $$ so that their kid can get accepted to an elite school, perpetuate the structural inequity.

  • mrjames Said:
Bingo. The AI is a silly construct given all we know about test scores and given how GPAs differ across schools, but luckily (or unluckily for us sports fans) many institutions are going above and beyond to keep kids out who are indeed AI qualified. (The opposite - taking kids under the bar who demonstrate they genuinely care about learning and the Ivy experience - would be nice as a balance, but alas...).

The good news is that, with the incentive structure of FinAid, Ivies are working hard to get the demographics that are often discriminated against in the testing process across the bar, because the ability to provide a quasi-full-ride makes matriculation more likely. Whereas the richer folks among us can get their kids tons of test prep classes to artificially raise their scores, but then are less likely to commit because they'd have to pay full.



20Penn14
Junior
Posts 262
07-30-17 07:27 PM - Post#231411    

According to COBL, Penn has interest in:

Ian Robertson, a 6-6, 205-pound wing forward
http://www.cityofbasketballlove.com/news_article/s...

Kenny Jones, 6-1 PG
http://www.cityofbasketballlove.com/news_article/s...
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
07-30-17 07:54 PM - Post#231412    

Another 4*, Jake Forrester, is no longer considering Penn (via VC).
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
07-31-17 02:01 PM - Post#231431    

I am a little surprised this didn't happen sooner.

JerseyShoreWarriors‏
Univ of Penn offers Drew Friberg
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
08-04-17 11:21 AM - Post#231633    

From VC, Penn has offered Aaron Nesmith, 6-5 SF from Charleston, SC.

https://verbalcommits.com/players/aaron-nesmith

2* but most of recent his gazillion or so offers are from HMs so I'd expect that figure to rise. Most of the Ivies have also offered.
rbg
Masters Student
Posts 453
08-04-17 12:48 PM - Post#231634    

VC lists him as a SF, but he sees himself as a wing.

http://www.thestate.com/sports/college/univer sity-...

http://www.gatorcountry.com/florida-gators-basket b...

He will be visiting Vaderbilt this weekend and then expects to cut his list down to 6 a few days later. Then, he will make his decision in November.

http://www.goupstate.com/sports/20170803/music -cit...
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
08-08-17 11:26 PM - Post#231705    

Matt Cotton took unofficial visit to Harvard earlier this week. So with Yale offer too, seems like we've got a lot of Ivy competition here (though we definitely have been talking to him the longest).
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
08-13-17 01:07 PM - Post#231916    

Not sure how hard we were recruiting him (since we offered late even though I'm sure staff saw a lot of him), but Jelani Williams high school teammate Saddiq Bey trimmed his list to 6 and Penn didn't make it. Only Ivy school is Princeton (lots of higher level schools like Miami remain).
rbg
Masters Student
Posts 453
08-14-17 07:30 AM - Post#231937    

Aaron Nesmith has trimmed his list to seven and Penn did not make the cut.

He is still looking at Harvard, Yale, Florida, South Carolina, Vanderbilt, Georgetown and Virginia Tech.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
08-14-17 11:21 AM - Post#231967    

Our list is becoming a two-star parade in a hurry. Matt Cotton or bust.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
08-15-17 08:03 AM - Post#232005    

this is fine

this is fine


this is fine

Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
08-15-17 06:00 PM - Post#232038    

Yeah a little concerning we aren't getting in final lists at least. I'm going to assume your convincing yourself Jeff? Serenity now?!
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
08-15-17 07:56 PM - Post#232042    

Michael Wang, 6-9, Mater Dei. Not the dude who sued over supposedly discriminatory admissions practices.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
08-15-17 08:58 PM - Post#232043    

serenity now, insanity later.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
08-15-17 10:10 PM - Post#232044    

Hey pennhoops - are you saying we are in final group for Michael Wang? I don't see much about his offers online.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
08-16-17 08:44 AM - Post#232051    

Not a finalist but I believe we are involved (to what extent, though, I don't know).
yoyo
Sophomore
Posts 129
08-16-17 03:01 PM - Post#232084    

Penn Basketball just tweeted out "High Major" but I couldn't open the link. Does anyone know what that is referring to?
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
08-16-17 04:19 PM - Post#232094    

Just a shout out to Penn facilities: Franklin Field, Palestra, etc
gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts 425
08-16-17 07:55 PM - Post#232106    

Yes, it was a response to Nat Graham's tweet about Penn's Athletics facilities: Palestra, Franklin Field/Penn Relays, Penn Park/24 acres (no tailgating allowed), and Weiss Wghtrm/best in US.

I guess the tweet would have been too long to mention the skating arena/hockey.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
08-17-17 01:08 PM - Post#232124    

Drew Friburg committed to Princeton.
rbg
Masters Student
Posts 453
08-17-17 02:46 PM - Post#232131    

Wow (or Ugh)! That's the Tigers' third pickup for 2018.

I know a number of people here are not concerned, but it is tough to watch Princeton and Harvard reload while Penn cannot seal the deal with any of the many players that have been offered spots.

While the Quakers may not need many players for 2018, the more players taken off the board (especially by other Ivy schools) the more difficult it will be to get talented players to compete with Harvard, Princeton and Yale.
gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts 425
08-17-17 10:54 PM - Post#232150    

Play Friburg, man!
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
08-20-17 03:30 PM - Post#232244    

Trey Wertz says Penn is one of the 5 teams recruiting him hardest:

http://www.zagsblog.com/2017/08/15/2018-trey- wertz...
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
08-20-17 04:28 PM - Post#232245    

to spare adam zagoria a lot of confused emails from you guys, i let him know there was a mistake with the three stars there as we're not involved with anyone who has more than two stars. go ahead and delete your drafts.
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2075
08-21-17 10:04 AM - Post#232250    

Thanks for the heads up. He also mentioned Princeton as another Ivy he is considering. Difficult to tell what factor is most motivating his choice of schools.
Penndemonium
Masters Student
Posts 576
08-21-17 03:51 PM - Post#232262    

It's strange - I watched the highlight video of one of Providence Day's games vs. High Point Christian. He was fairly uninvolved from a highlight standpoint. It looks like he plays for a very good team.

One video is not a representative dataset on his ability as a player, I realize. Still, if the coaches like him, I hope he becomes a Quaker!

besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
08-23-17 08:07 AM - Post#232315    

Josh Verlin‏
Archbishop Wood (Pa.) 2018 G Andrew Funk tells me he's down to three schools: Bucknell, Penn and Delaware. Funk, a 6-4 guard, will be taking officials to each. Bucknell (Aug. 25-27), Delaware (Aug. 30-31) and Penn (Sep. 8-10).

Also missed this from 8/7

Dinos Trigonis‏
Final schools for 6-5 2018 Maka Ellis (Sierra Vista/Las Vegas NV): Columbia, Penn, Cornell, Bucknell, Lehigh, Santa Clara & Nevada

pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
08-23-17 12:47 PM - Post#232324    

Ryan Young committed to Northwestern. Had just gotten an offer from Maryland so was probably headed off the two* bus (and off our radar).
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
08-23-17 02:50 PM - Post#232330    

To the staff's credit, some number of the guys they've lost on this year have been guys whose recruiting has exploded.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
08-24-17 08:58 AM - Post#232356    

That's more a defense than a credit, and if you're in hard on someone from the start it should at least keep you in the running if not the lead when bigger offers come in. Sorry but this is just massively discouraging so far, especially considering the leaps the rest of the league are making.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
08-24-17 09:09 AM - Post#232358    

No need to apologize to me. This was my biggest concern about this staff when Jerome was replaced. I happen to think their success the last two years (landing Brodeur, having a clearly better evaluation of Betley than most, and last year's class) should probably get them som leeway.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
08-24-17 09:10 AM - Post#232359    

It's much harder to recruit when the pool of kids that HYP have to decide whether they can afford to touch and you get a free run at shrinks by nearly half one class to the next.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
08-24-17 09:36 AM - Post#232361    

.
SteveChop
Masters Student
Posts 596
08-24-17 11:08 AM - Post#232362    

Mike

Could you please explain your comment? I don't understand what you are getting at. Thanks in advance.
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2075
08-24-17 11:48 AM - Post#232364    

Mr James. Would you please explain your last post?
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
08-24-17 12:30 PM - Post#232365    

I'm concerned that we are at this point putting all our eggs into only 1 or 2 baskets for 3* plus kids, but if we can land 1 (Matt Cotton please) then all will be forgiven for now.

It is critical to have another top tier recruiting class this year if we want to get back to the top. This isn't the world in the Ivy any more where you can whiff on a whole class and still win (we all know Dunphy whiffed on some years even though I'm a big fan). The Ivy world has changed and we've at least got to keep up or we'll continue to stay out of reach.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
08-24-17 12:31 PM - Post#232366    

While the average AI targets that each team has for its non-football recruited athletes are a closely guarded state secret, it's reasonable to assume that they're somewhere in the low 200s with HYP being slightly higher than others (but that gap has closed SIGNIFICANTLY since I've covered the league).

Let's assume that the target to hit is 205. At the beginning of this decade, the AI floor was 171. So, a perfectly reasonable thing to do would be to take three kids right at the floor and take three kids with perfect AIs. That would just slip over your 205 average. Now, some schools might not have the ability to take kids at the floor at all, while others might only be able to pursue one special target at that level, even if they could hit their average regardless.

Traditionally, the 170s and 180s have been the "no fly" or "limited fly" zones for those schools taking a more restrictive approach than the floor, while 190s and above really need to shirk their application duties to raise flags.

Well, five years ago, they raised the AI to 176 (to account for class rank/GPA arbitrage), which had been the first rise in the AI since it went from 169 to 171 in the summer of 2003. That chopped five points off that no/limited fly zone. A couple summers ago that 176 became 178. Then, this season, the 178 rose to 183 (to account for the fact that the ACT was yielding higher AIs consistently).

Given that something around the 190s is a pretty green light level for all, the fact that schools that had a green light to the floor saw their relatively exclusive part of the pool shrink from 19 points at the beginning of the decade to 14, then to 12 and now down to 7, makes recruiting far more competitive in the remaining area above the floor. I expect this to prompt a bit of an adjustment period for Penn.
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
08-24-17 01:20 PM - Post#232369    




Penndemonium
Masters Student
Posts 576
08-24-17 03:20 PM - Post#232374    

Mike (and Asia), I'm curious if your views on the impact of AI at all affect your view that there isn't really a financial aid effect for HYP vs. the rest. While I earlier feared that the financial aid disparity might have a meaningful impact on recruiting, people who knew the situation better than me (you two) assured me it isn't a big deal. I have accepted it as truth, as I think you both have objectivity and knowledge. In a period when the AI is being compressed, however, would an even slight financial aid advantage create a bigger edge for HYP vs. the rest?

Although I expect many comments no matter what you reply, I am genuinely interested in your views.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
08-24-17 05:38 PM - Post#232382    

Not really. I mean, I'd prefer a most favored nations calculation where every school can offer the best possible package or outright athletic scholarships (watch this league take off!), but at least on the basketball side, it's not a big deal. There's three classifications of prospects, really: 1) those that basically have to pay full (don't bother); 2) those that basically get a full ride from everyone (no real advantage); 3) those in that transition part from full ride to full pay (where different schools can give different reads).

If you happen to be in on one of the latter prospects without another Ivy that might be able to give a more generous read that you could match, you might end up not being in the best possible situation versus non-Ivy athletic scholarships and is the difference between paying some or some plus a little more. What it isn't (any more) is if only Princeton had joined in the pursuit of this kid we could have matched its full ride offer, but alas we're stuck with our five figure read.

I just don't think the differences in FA are terribly meaningful (any more).
Penndemonium
Masters Student
Posts 576
08-24-17 05:57 PM - Post#232383    

Thanks, Mike. I'm not sure I understand completely, but what I think I hear you saying is that in the #3 situation (where people need aid but aren't getting a full ride), the ivies can give pretty comparable aid to each other. So the real problem with students in that 3rd bucket is that a non-ivy can probably give a better read and package overall. There is a disparity to non-scholarship schools, but little to no disparity within the ivies.

Is that right?

While I had my doubts, I can accept that until I hear otherwise from a person with more direct knowledge (and not just fear-based reactions).
sparman
Masters Student
Posts 792
sparman
08-24-17 07:53 PM - Post#232387    

(While I am anti-athletic scholarship, the following is not intended as an anti-schollie screed, just an observation).

One reason I doubt scholarships will come into play for bball is that if you do it for one sport, you pretty much have to do it for all sports, and the Ivies have a disproportionately large number of supported sports. This would further the systemic advantage of better endowed schools.

SomeGuy
Postdoc
Posts 4224
08-24-17 08:56 PM - Post#232389    

Mike,

I believe you mentioned earlier that part of the AI issue for Penn is that we now have to fish where HYP more or less get their pick of recruits. My impression is that Penn has few, if any, true recruiting victories over HYP in recent years. To me, the question is why that happens. I'm not sure you can fully discount the FA issue, because we don't ultimately know what drives recruits' reasoning. and even if we could, FA can be tied into other factors in ways that are hard to distinguish. For example, I think sometimes players will choose who was recruiting them "first" or appeared most interested. There may be an advantage to the first mover on FA as a showing of interest.m just matching that later eliminates the gap in terms of money, but it may not in terms of perception of who wants the player most.

For the record, I think FA is only a small part of why Penn has been losing recruiting battles to HYP in recent years. The quickest remedy would be to start winning more games. Right now, HYP have brand advantages to a degree AND a basketball advantage. That's a tough double whammy.

But to me, the FA discrepancy is something to fix simply from a fairness perspective. The simple fact that we can argue about whether it matters is reason enough to find a way level the playing field.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
08-24-17 11:37 PM - Post#232390    

Don't know if it means anything, but I saw on St. Joes board that Matt Cotton officially enrolled at Eastern HS, in Voorhees, NJ. Not too far from Philly, so should give the coaches a chance to see a lot of games and get a lot of facetime.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
08-25-17 12:05 AM - Post#232391    

  • besnoah Said:
Josh Verlin‏
Archbishop Wood (Pa.) 2018 G Andrew Funk tells me he's down to three schools: Bucknell, Penn and Delaware. Funk, a 6-4 guard, will be taking officials to each. Bucknell (Aug. 25-27), Delaware (Aug. 30-31) and Penn (Sep. 8-10).

Also missed this from 8/7

Dinos Trigonis‏
Final schools for 6-5 2018 Maka Ellis (Sierra Vista/Las Vegas NV): Columbia, Penn, Cornell, Bucknell, Lehigh, Santa Clara & Nevada




Ellis has set three officials: Lehigh, Cornell and Columbia

Stuart Suss
Masters Student
Posts 841
08-25-17 09:18 AM - Post#232397    

With respect to the new AI of 183:

1. What SAT or ACT scores will produce a 183?
2. Do GPA and class rank still count in the calculation of the AI or have both been eliminated?

Thanks.
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
08-25-17 09:30 AM - Post#232398    

AI is a blend of test scores and GPA. As I understand it is comprised of two thirds test score and one third GPA. So a 4.0 (on a 4.0 scale) and a 36 ACT would produce a perfect AI of 240. Ivy teams, as MrJ has stated, have to manager to an average so if they take a 183 student athlete, they need another one at 220 to get to a 200 average AI.

If my math is right (and there is a good chance it isn't!) one could technically have a 23 ACT and a 4.0 GPA to get to roughly 183. Practically that's unlikely but you get the idea. More likely you are looking at a 26-27 ACT and around a 3.4 GPA as the minimum.

These are all approximations but I think it's close.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
08-25-17 03:51 PM - Post#232419    

  • Stuart Suss Said:


2. Do GPA and class rank still count in the calculation of the AI or have both been eliminated?

Thanks.



Very few high schools have a class rank any longer. Furthermore, it'll be interesting to see what happens to the AI once admissions departments start doing away with the SAT and/or more high schools get rid of GPA.
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3290
08-26-17 05:03 PM - Post#232434    

The AI dies? Be still my beating heart.
rbg
Masters Student
Posts 453
08-28-17 03:44 PM - Post#232459    

It appears that Harvard has just made an offer to Trey Wertz.
rbg
Masters Student
Posts 453
08-30-17 08:18 AM - Post#232485    

According to a tweet Amir Harris (2 star combo guard) sent out on 8/23/17, he has trimmed his list and is deciding between Temple and URI. As a result, Penn has been dropped from his list.

It would be great if I could post something positive on this thread.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
08-30-17 08:50 AM - Post#232489    

Be patient. Still a lot of time and a lot of prospects left out there. Enough Ivies have splintered off in the prospects they're deeply pursuing that I think there are fewer true Ivy vs. Ivy battles than it may seem. So long as Penn's top prospects are very interested in landing in the Ivy, I don't see it swinging and missing entirely.
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
08-30-17 11:27 AM - Post#232500    

MRJ is right on. Good news coming I believe.
westphillywarrior
Sophomore
Posts 141
08-31-17 11:15 AM - Post#232521    

Great! You should know. You are talking about Matt Cotton, right? When should we expect some news?
Penndemonium
Masters Student
Posts 576
08-31-17 12:28 PM - Post#232526    

Can it be? That guy looks like he would be a beast in the ivies. He would fill the Matt Howard role and then some.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 2909
08-31-17 12:41 PM - Post#232527    

Easy, boys.

Always in motion the future is.
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2075
08-31-17 02:23 PM - Post#232530    

I hear that he is secretly awaiting for a commitment from MH.
gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts 425
09-01-17 01:15 AM - Post#232538    

  • Tiger69 Said:
I hear that he is secretly awaiting for a commitment from MH.


from My Hand?
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
09-01-17 09:01 AM - Post#232543    

folks, i did the hard work of going through the followers of matt cotton/following list.

He isn't followed/following Jarrod or Jelani and they aren't following him. a commitment can't occur without that. and for those asking, it's necessary but not sufficient to ensure commitment.
yoyo
Sophomore
Posts 129
09-01-17 10:51 AM - Post#232550    

Fake News
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
09-01-17 11:42 AM - Post#232552    

BELIEVE ME!
Penndemonium
Masters Student
Posts 576
09-01-17 11:58 AM - Post#232553    

I have to say that is brilliant, jeff2sf.

Only caveat is that he wouldn't have met them on a campus visit (yet?) since school hasn't started yet. So the question would be whether he has taken a visit already and if so whether he is connected on social media with our sophs (Goodman, Betley, Brodeur, and co.). After the start of school, you're right that it's about Jarrod, Jelani, and Eddie.

Nice work!
westphillywarrior
Sophomore
Posts 141
09-01-17 02:36 PM - Post#232556    

PennFan10 is as connected as connected can be. I trust him.

Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 2909
09-01-17 02:54 PM - Post#232558    

Considering what he's saying, I hope he's right.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
09-01-17 03:04 PM - Post#232559    

pf10 is definitely connected. i did 11 minutes of twitter stalking that means little.

But to be clear, "good news" can refer to lots of things of varying levels of goodness. it'd be good if Shortie Johnson a 5'7 crafty point guard with a high motor plus a 4.0 GPA and 1600 on his SATs committed. But that might not meet my or your standards of good news.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 2909
09-01-17 03:34 PM - Post#232561    

Maybe he's referring to the 'good news' of the Gospel?
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
09-02-17 09:49 AM - Post#232569    

Jeff, in most contexts I'd find what you're doing as troubling behavior. In this one we thank you for your service.

I don't completely understand recruiting rules but I'm guessing that there may be limits with what players on the team can do. There would be no such limit with what another recruit can do since they're not enrolled.

AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 3731
09-02-17 10:36 AM - Post#232570    

You might be confusing booster rules with players connecting with recruits or other recruits connecting with each other via Twitter or otherwise.

Jeff has made a solid observation. Perhaps the "expected needs" relates to another player - perhaps Andrew Funk or someone else and not Matt Cotton.
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
09-02-17 11:01 AM - Post#232571    

  • Jeff2sf Said:
folks, i did the hard work of going through the followers of matt cotton/following list.

He isn't followed/following Jarrod or Jelani and they aren't following him. a commitment can't occur without that. and for those asking, it's necessary but not sufficient to ensure commitment.



It doesn't appear he is following any other players of current college teams, except J'Quan Newton of Miami. He IS following Steve Donahue and Joe Mihalich. To be fair he is also following Rutgers, Towson, LaSalle and a couple others as well. So what does that tell you? Hmmmm....

91Quake
Masters Student
Posts 462
09-02-17 07:04 PM - Post#232588    

Matt Cotton is linked with Andrew Funk. This piece makes our chances with Andrew Funk sound pretty good.

http://phillysportsnetwor k.com/2017/09/01/big-5-re...
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
09-04-17 12:53 PM - Post#232611    

Verbal Commits‏
2018 Roselle Catholic (NJ) G Ithiel Horton has received an offer from Penn.

Adam Zagoria‏
Official visits for 2018 Roselle Catholic G Ithiel Horton
9/8 - Lafayette
9/15 - Delaware
9/22 - Penn

Transferred to Roselle after St. Anthony's closed.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
09-04-17 01:01 PM - Post#232613    

Possibly related to this:

Andrew Funk‏
Thank you to all the schools that have recruited me, but I am very excited to announce my commitment to Bucknell University! #GoBison
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
09-04-17 07:05 PM - Post#232623    

FWIW, my wife (taught at St. Ant's until it closed) raves about Ithiel's character and academic drive. Obviously, that's not a basketball scouting report, but assuming that side is there, Penn would be getting an amazing kid.

She was very excited to hear that Penn was on his list - said it was very well deserved.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
09-05-17 06:52 AM - Post#232624    

Disappointing another target didn't choose Penn (not that there is any shame to losing a kid to Bucknell since they are a great program). That said, it is kind of interesting that Funk spoke so highly of Penn in that last article, but hadn't visited officially yet and would be visiting "in the near future". Then, without an official visit he picked Bucknell.

That could of course simply be that he loved Bucknell and wanted to go for it (new offer to Horton seems to indicate that this wasn't expected). I have no inside info whatsoever, but I wonder where he was in priority for Penn staff because we have a lot of offers to wings. For now I'll just be curious to see how it all plays out...

DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 56
09-05-17 08:32 AM - Post#232628    

I appreciate the off the court scouting report on Mr. Horton. It obviously begs the question of, what is the on the court scouting report? Now I can read between the lines if you want and say, if all we're talking about is his personality, then maybe he's not THE one we're waiting for. This reminds me of a time in my single life (before Mrs. Jazzy Jeff) when I was once asked to go on a blind date with a friend of my friend's girlfriend. Being a young man, my first question was "how does she look"? The response was, "she's a nice girl and has a great personality"? I immediately declined the date... Are we in the same situation here?
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
09-05-17 09:25 AM - Post#232629    

Nah - don't take it like that. I just have zero info on the on-court side. Offers look pretty okay, so he seems like a solid mid-major prospect.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
09-12-17 10:51 AM - Post#232795    

Dwayne Cohill to Dayton
Jake Forrester to Indiana

The Matt Cotton or bust train is now a maglev
section110
Masters Student
Posts 729
09-12-17 12:17 PM - Post#232799    

VC still lists Sean Good, Trey Wertz @ a Savior along with Cotton as Penn recruiting possibles. Anyone have any information on any of those guys?
The Quad
Sophomore
Posts 118
09-12-17 12:36 PM - Post#232800    

Jake Forrester had decided weeks ago that his top 5 were:
Indiana, Virginia Tech, Pitt, Seton Hall, and Xavier

Would love to get some 4* players, but as a reminder, Betley was 2*

1979Quakers
Freshman
Posts 19
09-12-17 12:41 PM - Post#232801    

Per Verbal Commits.

Jake Forrester has committed to Indiana.
rbg
Masters Student
Posts 453
09-15-17 04:58 PM - Post#232874    

Per Verbal Commits, Quinn Blair (6' 6" SF from Detroit) has chosen William & Mary.

Also, Verbal Commits noted that Ike Nweke (6' 6" PF from Bethesda) committed to Columbia yesterday. Penn did not give him an offer.

FWIW, the Verbal Commits Ivy League 2018 scorecard looks like this:
Brown - 2 Star PG (Thomas Shaughnessy, 2 Star SG (David Mitchell)
Columbia - 3 Star PF (Ike Nweke)
Cornell - none
Dartmouth - 2.5 Star PG (Taurus Samuels), 3 Star SG (Wes Slajchert)
Harvard - 3.5 Star PG (Spencer Freedman)
Penn - none
Princeton - 3.5 Star PG (Jaelin Llewellyn), 2 Star PG (Ethan Wright), 2 Star SF (Drew Friberg)
Yale - 2 Star PG (Eze Dike-Nwagbara), 2 Star SG (Michael Feinberg)
91Quake
Masters Student
Posts 462
09-16-17 08:38 AM - Post#232881    

So Donahue was up at Northfield Mount Herman this past week. Potentially to see Chuck Hannah who is on an official to Elon this weekend. Potentially to see 2019, 2020, or who knows what other players or years.

Also, Kai Toews who is being recruited by other Ivies is on an official to Delaware this weekend. Ithiel Horton is also on his official to Delaware this weekend.
91Quake
Masters Student
Posts 462
09-16-17 08:43 AM - Post#232882    

Apparently, Zach Light from NMH visited Penn and Dartmouth last month.
91Quake
Masters Student
Posts 462
09-16-17 08:57 AM - Post#232883    

And Chuck Hannah is visiting Brown next weekend.
91Quake
Masters Student
Posts 462
09-16-17 06:23 PM - Post#232887    

Sean Good to Lafayette.
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
09-16-17 11:19 PM - Post#232889    

Matt Cotton is on his official visit to Penn this weekend.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
09-17-17 12:06 PM - Post#232897    

Any word on how it went/is going?

Unrelated - Is it just me or is it always poorly publicized when stuff is happening with Penn recruiting? There isn't a peep about this on social that I've seen.
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
09-17-17 12:27 PM - Post#232898    

Don't know how it went but I think it's down to three schools for him, all IL. Suffice to say Penn has focused on Philly area prospects and MC fits the profile perfectly so he is the top priority.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
09-17-17 01:56 PM - Post#232900    

why are we focused on philly area prospects? it's neither 1954 nor are we lasalle

20Penn14
Junior
Posts 262
09-17-17 02:41 PM - Post#232901    

Jon Rothstein‏
@JonRothstein

2018 guard Amir Harris has committed to Rhode Island, per a source.

PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
09-17-17 03:24 PM - Post#232902    

I think it was pretty clear from Donahue when he was first hired that his priority was to recruit Philadelphia area prospects primarily. I am sure they still look outside of Philly but they want to win the battle at home.

If the recruiting philosophy is indeed "win at home" then the results of this battle for Matt Cotton will be telling.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
09-17-17 03:38 PM - Post#232904    

I can't even tell who Penn is battling for Cotton. Seems like he's theirs to lose, though I'm not totally on top of this one to be honest.
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
09-17-17 03:47 PM - Post#232905    

There are 2 other prominent IL teams in the mix, where he will be taking official visits. Don't know how high a priority he is to those schools. One of them is Yale, who has 2 commitments at guard already.
The Pine
Freshman
Posts 33
09-17-17 05:03 PM - Post#232906    

We are getting hosed this year in recruiting.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 3731
09-18-17 05:59 AM - Post#232910    

Seems way too early to reach this conclusion. This year's class will be very small by design targeting very specific needs.

Maybe in a few more months your post will seem more appropriate but the opposite is just as likely.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
09-18-17 07:56 AM - Post#232913    

  • Jeff2sf Said:
why are we focused on philly area prospects? it's neither 1954 nor are we lasalle


My take is that Donahue recruits nationally for his higher profile targets. He also attempts to unearth potentially under-recruited / under-rated prospects more locally, where he should have a home field advantage. Neither Brodeur nor the 3 higher profile recruits from last year were Philly area / NJ recruits. Betley and Goodman were under the radar local recruits who Donahue was right about.

Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
09-18-17 08:28 AM - Post#232917    

it absolutely stands to reason that we can unearth more unpolished diamonds in our backyard than, say, nebraska.

i objected to the idea of "focusing". we should be recruiting good players from all over the US, as we did with Brodeur, Scott, Williams, Simmons.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 729
09-18-17 08:38 AM - Post#232919    

Agreed. If we get Cotton & one of the bigs we're after, I would say it is a very good class to fit our needs with talented players.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
09-18-17 08:48 AM - Post#232920    

Do you really think Donahue has stopped looking nationally for high profile recruits?

When he was hired Donahue said he was going to "focus" on recruiting within a 50 mile radius of Philly. Based on the track record of the past 2 years I think it's clear what he meant by that statement.




Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
09-18-17 09:13 AM - Post#232922    

i'm surprised you're surprised i would object to that statement.

i'm basically on team donahue. i guess we're arguing semantics, it was just a weird turn of phrase to me to be like "no, it's cool we have no commits right now, we're focusing on philly area (implication to me being "exclusively" focusing).

Whatever, his actions prior to this year would say that's not true.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
09-18-17 09:29 AM - Post#232924    

Yes, we're arguing semantics. I agree with you that it's a huge mistake if Donahue is focusing on Philly area recruits to the point that he's not bothering to recruit elsewhere. I just don't believe it's the case.

I think Donahue's recruiting net is wider than Dunphy's. I'm trying to recall our star players under Dunph and can only come up with Ugonna and Koko as not from the Philly area or from NJ. That Dunphy era recruiting net wouldn't work today.


Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 2909
09-18-17 10:02 AM - Post#232926    

Pursuing high-profile recruits nationally and searching for diamonds in the rough locally sounds like a pretty smart approach to me. As for the 2018 class, while the lack of commitments to this point is worrisome, it's too early to say this class is a bust. Hopefully, something big will happen soon.
Stuart Suss
Masters Student
Posts 841
09-18-17 10:06 AM - Post#232927    

Ugonna was not recruited from overseas. He was brought to our attention by a friend of Gil Jackson when Ugonna was at Mercersburg Academy, on the Maryland border, west of Gettysburg. Ugonna was closer to Philadelphia than Jed Ryan (Erie, Pennsylvania) or Scott Kegler (Columbus, Ohio).

However, as I have noted before, Fran Dunphy's success was highly reliant on transfers. We went to the NCAA tournament 10 times during the Fran Dunphy era (defined to include the 2007 team coached by Glen Miller, with Fran Dunphy's players). 7 of those 10 teams had significant contributions from one or more transfers. An 8th team, the 2000 champions, received 13 minutes per game from the backup center, Brown transfer Oggie Kapetanovic. Only the 1999 and 2007 NCAA teams did not have a transfer from another team.

I trust that the former coaches of Jeff Foote (Steve Donahue and Nat Graham) and Ira Bowman (formerly of Providence) all recognize the value of transfers and will improve upon the quality of the current transfers.

section110
Masters Student
Posts 729
09-18-17 12:22 PM - Post#232934    

Stars: Duncombe, Danlye & Ryan. Decent contributors: Trice, Osmundson, Paul McMahon, Frank Brown, Laater, Kegler, Fikiel & Pettinella & Spiva briefly. Still the geographic net was narrower.


TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
09-18-17 01:26 PM - Post#232936    

Thanks Stu and section110. That's more comprehensive.

I thought Danley, Ryan and Trice went to HS closer to the Philly area than they actually did. Duncombe was a Schneider recruit.

Still, 4 non-Philly recruits in 2 years seems like a wider net than Dunphy had.

Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
09-18-17 01:42 PM - Post#232937    

The transfers thing is interesting...

I totally agree that in the past transfers have been a big part of winning teams. That said, the world of transfers in college basketball has changed even in last 10 years since Foote transferred. Not many kids seem to be transferring down, and many more seem to be transferring up...
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
09-18-17 04:53 PM - Post#232952    

Ithiel Horton to Delaware.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
09-18-17 07:57 PM - Post#232955    

Kale Catchings to Harvard.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
09-18-17 08:23 PM - Post#232957    

now you guys are just making up names.
rbg
Masters Student
Posts 453
09-18-17 08:48 PM - Post#232958    

According to Verbal Commits, Jake Lanford, a 2 star 6' 8" center from Charleston, has committed to Yale.

Also, Jaylan Gainey, a 2 star 6' 10" PF from Greensboro, committed to Brown.

Updating the the VC Ivy League 2018 scorecard:
Brown (3) - 2 Star PG (Thomas Shaughnessy), 2 Star SG (David Mitchell), 2 Star PF (Jaylan Gainey)
Columbia (1) - 3 Star PF (Ike Nweke)
Cornell (0) - none
Dartmouth (2) - 2.5 Star PG (Taurus Samuels), 3 Star SG (Wes Slajchert)
Harvard (2) - 3.5 Star PG (Spencer Freedman), 2 Star SF (Kale Catchings)
Penn (0) - none
Princeton (3) - 3.5 Star PG (Jaelin Llewellyn), 2 Star PG (Ethan Wright), 2 Star SF (Drew Friberg)
Yale (3) - 2 Star PG (Eze Dike-Nwagbara), 2 Star SG (Michael Feinberg), 2 Star C (Jake Lanford)

mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
09-19-17 06:57 AM - Post#232961    

Just knowing what's left on the board, Harvard and Princeton should end up with the top two classes - how their hit rate on their top remaining targets goes should determine the order and the distance they put between them and the chase pack.

Third could be coming down to Brown or Yale. If those two each land a top target or two they have left, they'll be tough to catch for third and fourth.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
09-19-17 10:39 AM - Post#232971    

Mike, which of the 2-stars do you like the most?

mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
09-19-17 01:00 PM - Post#232979    

The ones that I've heard differentiating stuff about would be David Mitchell, Kale Catchings and Ethan Wright. Pretty good stuff on Eze Dike, Drew Friberg and Thomas Shaugnessy too.

Right now, my league top six would be:
Jaelin
Spencer
Taurus
Ethan/Kale/David

I think three of what will ultimately be the top five haven't committed yet...
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
09-19-17 06:18 PM - Post#232999    

Per Twitter, Maka Ellis is making his decision tomorrow after being at Columbia this weekend and Lehigh three weeks ago.

His final 7 was/is(?) Columbia, Penn, Cornell, Bucknell, Lehigh, Santa Clara & Nevada

Also, to circle back on the aforementioned Michael Wang from Mater Dei, Penn was apparently out at Mater Dei last week (no clue if it was for him or who for).

Mater Dei Hoops‏
Thanks for coming out to watch our guys work out @DU_MHoops @HawaiiMBB @PennBasketball @CalMBBall @SantaClaraHoops 👍
SomeGuy
Postdoc
Posts 4224
09-19-17 07:44 PM - Post#233002    

So reading between the lines, Brown and Yale both are likely to pull in a top 5 guy? Seems like based on what is there now, Dartmouth is ahead of them (at least on an "avg recruit" basis).
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
09-19-17 08:44 PM - Post#233005    

If Penn were fortunate enough to have Matt Cotton commit, he would definitely be a top 5 recruit in this class.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
09-19-17 09:21 PM - Post#233006    

To be honest, "definitely" is a stretch. It's possible he'd be a Top 5 player in the class - depends on what some of the other targets on the board decide to do.

I think he'd be a top 5 player right now, but all depends on what gets added down the stretch. That being said, there isn't a lot of quality left - this class looked great/deep and then fizzled fast over the summer, so it's possible he'd end up as a Top 5 kid in the 2018 Ivy class. If so, that'd be an even weaker class than it is currently expected to be.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
09-19-17 11:07 PM - Post#233010    

Fair enough - "definitely" was strong considering I only can see public offers and I don't know what else might be out there I haven't seen.

That said, of the current commits only Llewellyn and Freedman have public offers at the level of Matt Cotton, regardless of whether or not he ends up at Penn. So if the Ivy has a class with him in the top 5 recruits and it is considered "weak" that's pretty damn impressive!
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
09-19-17 11:29 PM - Post#233011    

Matt Cotton is definitely top 5.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
09-20-17 01:38 AM - Post#233012    

Maka Ellis is interesting, but Penn wasn't mentioned in 3 officials he was planning (Lehigh, Columbia, Cornell) nor was he mentioned for in-home visits last few weeks. Interesring he is announcing tomorrow before a scheduled visit to Cornell this coming weekend. Since he just visited Columbia this past weekend it feels like Lions will be the choice. Looks like it would be a great pickup for them if so.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
09-20-17 06:56 AM - Post#233014    

Important to remember that there is a difference between the offers you have and the offers you had.

Right now, I think Cotton would be a Top 5 player in the class. There are four kids on the board right now though that would bump him and a couple more that would be in the conversation. Not all of those (possibly not many) will go Ivy, so I'd feel confident saying he'll definitely be a Top 10 player in this class.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 3731
09-20-17 09:47 AM - Post#233029    

Mike James does some interesting quantitative analytics, but in the end his predictions aren't really all that more accurate than what most of us would come up with. The one positive is that his work is devoid of emotion which is the thing that often leads many fans of a particular team, including me, to think with the heart when the head alone might lead to a more accurate conclusion.

As for recruiting, I think he is only moderately less in the dark that most of us. Yes - he does talk to some people "in the know", but even the people who run these Ivy programs get it wrong and many evaluate kids and their potential very differently.

No one would have thought the kids who've been driving Princeton's success would have been top Ivy recruits. I mean - Steven Cook, Weisz, Caruso? And look at Yale - neither Oni nor Mason were all that highly rated or highly regarded for that matter.

We have a league where stars sometimes matter, but in many cases they don't. Case in point - Ryan Betley!
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
09-20-17 09:57 AM - Post#233030    

I invited Mike to opine because I find his views informative and more accurate than anyone else. I have no statistical analysis to back that up.

I also trust coaching staffs with good recruiting track records. Mitch Henderson is consistently good.

No one is going to be 100% accurate.


AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 3731
09-20-17 10:24 AM - Post#233032    

Mikes opinions are always welcomed. I was just making the point that he misses as much as he hits when it comes to this stuff. It's not his fault. It's the nature of recruiting at our level.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 729
09-20-17 11:39 AM - Post#233036    

Who are these mystery four plus kids? My only "knowledge" is that I read Verbal Commits, look at the ESPN top 100 list & get a couple of pre-season guides. On those Llewllyn, Freeman & Cotton are the only Ivy targets mentioned. ESPN lists David Duke of Cushing Academy as having offers from Brown & Columbia. Cotton is the highest rated on VC. Sean Good (3.5) and Trey Wertz & Isiah Kelly (both 2.5) & Solomon U. on the Columbia are the next highest rated. nychoops is probably the only poster who may have seen a number of these guys play or have reliable second knowledge. So who are the potential stars still on the H/Y/P radar who relegate Cotton out of the top five if they go Ivy?
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
09-20-17 12:59 PM - Post#233041    

Noah Kirkwood, Mason Forbes, Greg Foster Jr. and Trey Jemison are all better prospects than Cotton. Whether or not they end up in the Ivies remains to be seen, but they're better.

Maka Ellis ending up at Columbia would be sort of in the same range as Cotton. Drew Peterson would be in the same range as well.

Isaiah Kelly will end up in the Ivy, but Cotton's ahead of him. Both those guys are most likely to end up at Yale, FWIW.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
09-20-17 01:27 PM - Post#233047    

so he's not that good, but the good news is we're not likely to get him.


This is fine.





T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Masters Student
Posts 715
09-20-17 01:28 PM - Post#233048    

  • mrjames Said:

Isaiah Kelly will end up in the Ivy, but Cotton's ahead of him. Both those guys are most likely to end up at Yale, FWIW.


I'm confused. Last week you wrote, "I can't even tell who Penn is battling for Cotton. Seems like he's theirs to lose, though I'm not totally on top of this one to be honest." Now you're telling us he likely ends up at Yale?

mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
09-20-17 02:16 PM - Post#233053    

Life comes at you fast in September/October.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 729
09-20-17 02:22 PM - Post#233054    

But VC and/or 247 Sports only shows Foster as having Ivy interest (Brown).
T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Masters Student
Posts 715
09-20-17 02:39 PM - Post#233057    

  • mrjames Said:
Life comes at you fast in September/October.


Pardon me while I shove my head in the oven.
westphillywarrior
Sophomore
Posts 141
09-20-17 03:06 PM - Post#233061    

"But VC and/or 247 Sports only shows Foster as having Ivy interest (Brown)."

I don't think these sites come close to knowing everything that is going on. The kid that Yale just got wasn't showing on their board until he announced.

Harvard has almost no players on their page but I'd guess they are doing some recruiting. And I haven't seen anyone all year on Princeton's page until players commit.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
09-20-17 03:44 PM - Post#233062    

FWIW, I think Penn lands Mike Wang. So, there's that.
rbg
Masters Student
Posts 453
09-20-17 05:09 PM - Post#233065    

Maka Ellis to Columbia - https://twitter.com/makaellis/status/9106 183262120...

Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3290
09-20-17 06:48 PM - Post#233071    

At the risk of sounding like my BFF, T'69, I must admit I take some solace in the "woe is me" posts on this Quaker Board. The good news is the Brown today announced we would be taking the loan portion out of FA packages. It may be very little, very late, but it is a small step in the right direction.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
09-20-17 07:14 PM - Post#233074    

  • mrjames Said:
FWIW, I think Penn lands Mike Wang. So, there's that.


Can't be right. He's from more than 100 miles outside Philly.

SomeGuy
Postdoc
Posts 4224
09-20-17 09:02 PM - Post#233076    

Mike, do you know if we(Penn) offered Ellis? Somebody said so on the Columbia board. That would be news to me, and bad news.
91Quake
Masters Student
Posts 462
09-20-17 09:04 PM - Post#233077    

Chuck Hannah to Elon.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
09-21-17 02:31 AM - Post#233080    

Mike Wang is an interesting prospect especially in Donahue mold of stretch 4 - 6'8" with a nice looking 3 point form with quick release. Would be a very nice pickup.

Sure hope Mike's wrong about Matt Cotton as that would be a real disappointment and especially bad considering how long Penn pursued him and since Yale only offered like a month ago.

What Penn can't afford is a total whiff of a class. That would be devastating to the chances of trying to get to higher level of HYP at the moment.
T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Masters Student
Posts 715
09-21-17 07:36 AM - Post#233084    

  • Mike Porter Said:

Sure hope Mike's wrong about Matt Cotton as that would be a real disappointment and especially bad considering how long Penn pursued him and since Yale only offered like a month ago.



Maybe his cousin Armani has been talking to him. (NB: I have no idea if Armani and Matt are related. I just love the name Armani Cotton.)

SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3141
09-21-17 01:21 PM - Post#233109    

Cheer up. Harvard is using a former Penn and Columbia investment manager to try to get its mammoth endowment on track after underperforming since the 2008 crisis. It might take a while--there is "inertia" in the portfolio, apparently. Another twenty years of underperformance and we'll all be nearly caught up!

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2017/9/20/hmc -20...
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
09-21-17 02:12 PM - Post#233110    

Not going to happen in my lifetime.

Harvard is an amazing bargain even with that underperformance. My niece is a Senior at Harvard. My brother pays way less for a year at Harvard than a year at the university my other niece attends.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 2909
09-21-17 02:35 PM - Post#233112    

I once heard Leon Botstein describe Harvard as "a very large bank with a small education business attached."
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
09-21-17 07:36 PM - Post#233123    

FYI per a respected St. Joes poster who knows Matt Cotton personally:

"Matt is down to Harvard, Yale and Penn..."

He posted this in St. Joe's board as St. Joe's really wanted Cotton.
rbg
Masters Student
Posts 453
09-24-17 08:53 PM - Post#233191    

A Philly Sports Network interview with Trey Wertz from earlier today and a 9/1 interview with hsbasketballbr.

http://phillysportsnetwor k.com/2017/09/24/sg/

https://hsbasketballbr.wordpress.com/2017/09/01/in...


mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
09-25-17 07:04 AM - Post#233195    

Yeah... I don't see Trey Wertz going Ivy, folks.
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
09-25-17 09:57 AM - Post#233201    

His answers in this QA don't give off the feeling he is warm and fuzzy about Ivy or Big 5 (Temple).


Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
09-25-17 08:01 PM - Post#233230    

Isaiah Kelly has committed to Yale on Twitter. "Upon admission" he will be continuing his education at Yale.

We offered last year but seems we haven't been involved for a long time.

Still, worth noting as another one off the board.
T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Masters Student
Posts 715
09-26-17 07:52 AM - Post#233233    

Geez.

What's the last recruiting battle we won against Yale or Harvard?
rbg
Masters Student
Posts 453
09-26-17 08:07 AM - Post#233235    

With the commitments of Ellis and Kelly, here is the updated VC Ivy League 2018 scorecard:

Brown (3) - 2 Star PG (Thomas Shaughnessy), 2 Star SG (David Mitchell), 2 Star PF (Jaylan Gainey)
Columbia (2) - 2.3 Star SG (Make Ellis), 3 Star PF (Ike Nweke)
Cornell (0) - none
Dartmouth (2) - 2.5 Star PG (Taurus Samuels), 3 Star SG (Wes Slajchert)
Harvard (2) - 3.5 Star PG (Spencer Freedman), 2 Star SF (Kale Catchings)
Penn (0) - none
Princeton (3) - 3.5 Star PG (Jaelin Llewellyn), 2 Star PG (Ethan Wright), 2 Star SF (Drew Friberg)
Yale (4) - 2 Star PG (Eze Dike-Nwagbara), 2 Star SG (Michael Feinberg), 3 Star SF (Isaiah Kelly)
, 2 Star C (Jake Lanford)


Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
09-26-17 08:38 AM - Post#233238    

  • rbg Said:


Yale (4) - 2 Star PG (Eze Dike-Nwagbara), 2 Star SG (Michael Feinberg), 3 Star SF (Isaiah Kelly)
, 2 Star C (Jake Lanford)






dear Matt and Yale,
You don't need each other.
Stop.

Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
09-26-17 08:38 AM - Post#233239    

  • rbg Said:


Yale (4) - 2 Star PG (Eze Dike-Nwagbara), 2 Star SG (Michael Feinberg), 3 Star SF (Isaiah Kelly)
, 2 Star C (Jake Lanford)






dear Matt and Yale,
You don't need each other.
Stop.

The Pine
Freshman
Posts 33
09-26-17 10:11 AM - Post#233246    

I wonder how much Donahue spent to whiff on recruits?

Bad
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
09-27-17 05:57 PM - Post#233274    

I'm guessing the Noah Kirkwood commitment, that leaves Yale and Penn as options for Matt Cotton.

Isaiah Kelly who committed to Yale is also a big wing, Cotton could slide to SG potentially, but seems like muddier waters for him.

Not to overstate the obvious, but Penn needs to make this happen.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
09-29-17 07:33 AM - Post#233352    

Yeah, Harvard needs bigs. Can't imagine taking four guards in this class makes any sense for Harvard. Especially given the caliber of the ones they already have in the class.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-03-17 10:56 AM - Post#233477    

Really, really excited to see how this Penn/Yale battle over Cotton turns out... Would be a strong head-to-head win if Penn can pull it off...
T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Masters Student
Posts 715
10-03-17 11:06 AM - Post#233478    

"Excited" is not the word many of us would use.
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
10-03-17 12:28 PM - Post#233480    

It is definitely a potential program defining moment for Donahue if the Quakers can land Cotton over Yale.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
10-03-17 12:59 PM - Post#233482    

anything prompted you (mrjames) popping in? announcement of when he's announcing coming? you noticed he's following jwill now?
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 2909
10-03-17 01:09 PM - Post#233483    

  • PennFan10 Said:
It is definitely a potential program defining moment for Donahue if the Quakers can land Cotton over Yale.



I think it's a program defining moment either way.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-03-17 01:15 PM - Post#233484    

Maybe... although according to Asia, I'm only moderately less in the dark than everyone else.


mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-03-17 01:18 PM - Post#233485    

That last one was a response to Jeff. I wouldn't come close to labeling whatever happens as "program defining," especially when what Harvard and Princeton will be throwing out there in 18-19 is light years ahead of where Penn would be even with Cotton, but it'd be a big step to get another H2H win versus Yale.
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
10-03-17 01:31 PM - Post#233487    

What does Penn's recruitment of Cotton have to do with what "Harvard and Yale are throwing out there"? Pretty irrelevant statement unless you just like beating your chest. Seems to me that if Penn beats Yale on a kid they both want, it's a big deal for a program that historically hasn't done that. Sorry if we don't measure up to your snooty standards yet, even if we did split the series with both those schools.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
10-03-17 01:36 PM - Post#233489    

for the record, he said harvard/princeton... not yale. had to re-read that one.

now, wading into less factual ground, I think MRJAMES thinks (and I think as well), That Harvard routinely picks up guys at Cotton's caliber and occasionally higher. Steve needs to raise his game even further if he gets Cotton. But hey, have to start somewhere, so let's get it done.
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
10-03-17 01:45 PM - Post#233490    

Thanks for the correction. I mistyped in my haste. Again, it seems to me to be chest thumping on Penn's board. Someone should report him to the moderator...
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-03-17 01:57 PM - Post#233491    

I will report myself to myself...

I honestly do not mean it as chest thumping. It's just a fact, especially if Harvard and Princeton add anything substantial to close out this 2018 class.
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
10-03-17 03:43 PM - Post#233493    

Last I checked there was a recruiting board for Harvard and Princeton. Besides, doesn't matter how many 4* Harvard gets Aiken is taking all the shots while those guys watch from the bench or some other place on the court. That's how a team like Princeton/Yale/Penn beats an all star team like Harvard...

and for the record, I did know that you were the moderator.
Penndemonium
Masters Student
Posts 576
10-03-17 04:00 PM - Post#233494    

Who was the target player in the other Penn vs. Yale recruiting battle?


mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-03-17 04:41 PM - Post#233495    

AJ Brodeur
SomeGuy
Postdoc
Posts 4224
10-03-17 07:39 PM - Post#233499    

Kind of hoping this is some foreshadowing by mrjames to fire us up (just his small way of helping with the rising tide).
yoyo
Sophomore
Posts 129
10-04-17 08:24 AM - Post#233504    

The Red & Blue Tide!
DJ Jazzy Jeff
Freshman
Posts 56
10-06-17 06:43 AM - Post#233542    

FYI, Mike Wang took his official visit to Penn last weekend.
Cvonvorys
PhD Student
Posts 1346
10-06-17 08:17 AM - Post#233544    

This guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Rc2YErIbAk


AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 3731
10-06-17 08:34 AM - Post#233545    

Yes that guy

I wrote to someone about a month ago that he kind of reminds me of Bob Morse from my day. He's more skilled than Bob was and more athletic, but of course the game has changed radically from the early 70's and everyone is more skilled and more athletic these days.

The pg in that youtube video is the highly regarded pg going to Harvard.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
10-06-17 09:02 AM - Post#233546    

i feel dumb asking this but did he block LaMelo at about the 1:20 minute mark?

i wasn't blown away by the tape. ground bound kept floating in my head.
Cvonvorys
PhD Student
Posts 1346
10-06-17 09:38 AM - Post#233548    

FWIW, this from ESPN:

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basket ball/recr...
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
10-06-17 10:12 AM - Post#233550    

yeah fine. i'm sure he's good. just wasn't excited.

MATT COTTON OR GTFO.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 3731
10-06-17 10:37 AM - Post#233551    

Jeff- I think you are correct in your comments, although I'd describe him as having average athleticism. One thing we know is that above average athleticism doesn't necessarily correlate to success in our league.

I mean no one would ever see players like Hans Brase pick a quarter off the top of the backboard. And guys like Sherard and Sears wouldn't qualify either.

I think it's paramount in Donahue's scheme that one has the ability to put the ball in the basket. If we have a 4 who can shoot 40%+ and run the floor and rebound a bit, we have a pretty good mid major, ivy league contributor. The problem we struggle with is we don't have guys that consistently make the open shots our offense is designed to generate, nor have we had the kind of guards who can consistently beat their man off the dribble and dish the ball to guys who then knock down the open 3 pointer. I'm guessing a commitment from a player with Wang's skill set would be welcomed and that he would fit in quite nicely with our current mix.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
10-06-17 10:39 AM - Post#233552    

yup, i'm sure you're right. just have had more entertaining uses of 2:15 of youtube.
Okoro Dude
Junior
Posts 266
10-06-17 11:46 AM - Post#233554    

Hopefully he was there Sunday to see the Sixers playing their Blue/White scrimmage at the Palestra. Good chance to see the Palestra full. I saw most of the team and coaches sitting in 116, but didn't notice if any of the people sitting around them were recruits.
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts 2416
10-06-17 11:47 AM - Post#233555    

I'd be guardedly optimistic re Wang. If he can rate 3* and get an HM offer (A&M) playing a decidedly supporting part for Mater Dei then there's got to be some talent there. I'd imagine he'll have a bigger part to play this year and against some high quality competition. If he shows something, he could be a good one.

Put another way, Cotton and Wang are about as good as we can hope for (and need) in a class right now.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
10-06-17 08:23 PM - Post#233567    

I agree Wang doesn't look like he will win any jumping contests, but really like the form on his shot, and it seems that he is performing well on a really good team so far this year. I'd be pumped to have him commit.
Looks like ESPN and 247 do have him as 3* recruits also, so sounds promising and seems like a fit for Donahue's offense.

Also it looks like Matt Cotton has his Yale visit the weekend after his Penn visit and is visiting Harvard this weekend per Rivals.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-06-17 09:03 PM - Post#233568    

Hmm... I don't think that visiting info is right.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
10-06-17 09:22 PM - Post#233569    

I certainly hope Rivals isn't that accurate since they also have interest as high for Yale and Harvard but only Med for Penn (even though they do have visit date). Looks like it says yesterday was visit actually.

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/201 8/matthu...

Wouldn't surprise me if it was off.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-09-17 09:58 AM - Post#233601    

What does GTFO mean?
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
10-09-17 10:12 AM - Post#233603    

it was a joke. get the f out.

"matt cotton or bust".
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
10-09-17 10:58 AM - Post#233608    

MCOB

Yes indeed!
penn nation
Professor
Posts 9576
10-09-17 11:26 AM - Post#233611    

Serenity now.
1979Quakers
Freshman
Posts 19
10-09-17 11:36 AM - Post#233612    

Insanity later.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 2909
10-09-17 11:36 AM - Post#233613    

God-- I wish I could be optimistic here. I'm trying to breathe through my eyelids.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 16377
10-09-17 01:07 PM - Post#233619    

It's pretty funny how we are coming off the 2 best recruiting years since Dunphy and everyone is choking on the issue of next year's recruits. We have a chance to be pretty good this year. And no one is saying anything other than going after me for really liking Antonio Woods.

You guys have lost all perspective---that's a losing mentality. Time to look forward to what is right before us.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
10-09-17 01:14 PM - Post#233620    

first off, i'm not calling Simmons/JWill/Scott a successful recruiting class until I see them succeed. I'm not falling for the Glen Miller "our class is greater than 10 Super Bowls" thing again.

second, it doesn't matter that we have the "best recruiting years since Dunphy". That's nearly as meaningless a time period as trying to compare to the Final Four years. It's a completely different era. Doing good isn't good enough. If we keep on our current trajectory we are at best a 3rd place team over the next half decade.

I HOPE Steve Donahue isn't as complacent as you.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 16377
10-09-17 01:17 PM - Post#233621    

I'm calling you out on this one Jeff. If anyone on this entire board judges recruits long before they play a game, it is you. We have actual talent here right now that by the end of last year, was competitive with the best teams in the league--beat Harvard and were it not for a missed FT, we had Princeton as well.

I only judge what I can see. And what I see is pretty good. I am anything but complacent. But I am optimistic.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
10-09-17 01:40 PM - Post#233622    

i mean whatever bro. i'm judging the recruiting class, yes, but I allow for people to play above their grade (as Betley did).

But you're narrow, luddit-ian, goal post moving buttisn't getting away with the idea that we "were competitive".

We're so far behind the top 3 it hurts. The fact that we now have a tourney, which btw, is at home and allows for randomness to occur does not mean we're on the come. no statistic will agree with you on this. You do realize mrjames reads this board right?
palestra38
Professor
Posts 16377
10-09-17 01:44 PM - Post#233623    

What were the stats for the last 8 games, when we had integrated last year's freshmen (notwithstanding the seasonal overuse of AJ by that point)?


I'm not going pure Luddite here---it is based on the actual level of play in the last quarter of the season, combined with the return of a very good player (I know we disagree, but you'll be wrong on this) in Woods and recruiting in the areas we really need some help. I think we crack the top 3---one of those 3 will falter (probably Princeton).
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
10-09-17 01:48 PM - Post#233624    

"I'm not going pure Luddite here... except for the part where I throw out all the stats that don't fit my theory of the case" he said unironically

And it's not like I'm the only person who thinks Woods wasn't as good as you do. Why do you do that to him? You unfairly put expectations on kids that makes people who see the truth have to tear a kid down. I'm thrilled he's coming back. But that doesn't mean I expect him to be good.


penn nation
Professor
Posts 9576
10-09-17 01:57 PM - Post#233626    

Say what you want, but at least Woods has athletic upside. We need to have some non-freshmen who can make up for Howard's absence in this area.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
10-09-17 01:59 PM - Post#233627    

I'm looking forward to this season for sure, and hoping we are above expectations. Above expectations is what, maybe a 3rd place finish and winning a game in the Ivy tournament? Dream scenario is we upset the apple cart and win the whole thing?

The reality is we are still behind the top 3 - doesn't mean our season won't be fun and exciting, but we are far from the favorite.

If we want Penn to rise again to the top 1/2 kind of position, in this day and age of Ivy Basketball you just can't whiff on an entire class. That will be a big setback when we are still trying to climb the ladder.

If we miss on Cotton, besides Mike Wang, do we have literally anyone left on the recruiting board?!
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
10-09-17 02:05 PM - Post#233628    

and P.S. I am actually really looking forward to this season and think that it will be a fun one.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
10-09-17 02:06 PM - Post#233629    

i am too. i really am.


But where we may part company is that part of that is knowing there's an IL tourney that we could win. If there wasn't, I'd not be as pumped.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-09-17 02:12 PM - Post#233631    

I've said this before on here - the "final quarter" talk is really tricky.

Yes, Penn was No. 130 over the final month of the season (9 games - starting with the win over Columbia). That's was a close third to second-place Harvard and way ahead of Yale. BUT, looking at the final 5 games of the year, Penn was No. 207. And that was a DISTANT fourth.

That's not great, consistent information that Penn was pointed in the right direction.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
10-09-17 02:15 PM - Post#233632    

This is totally fair Jeff, and also probably why I am still excited. I would always be interested, but this does step it up.

palestra38
Professor
Posts 16377
10-09-17 02:21 PM - Post#233633    

Actually, Penn played very well in every game over those 9 except for the Dartmouth home game. And best of all, in those 9 games, the points scored by the AJ-Betley-Goodman trio were 26, 50, 49, 35, 38, 33, 37, 34 and 32. They were freshmen! So if you add Woods, Foreman has a good senior year, we get some bounds and easy points from Rothschild in his minutes and we get the off the dribble shooting from Donahue and Jones, we have a lot of points before even thinking about the freshmen. Penn will have a lot of depth this year and if the freshman class is as good as advertised, we have a chance to compete.
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
10-09-17 02:26 PM - Post#233634    

I am more optimistic on Woods than I have represented. I only reported what I have heard since his return. I liked him as a player and am more in P38's camp that he will be better used in this version of SD's system than he was on a talentless team 2 years ago.

I believe AW can be a starter for this team and a major contributor. Based on his participation and progress thus far I was pessimistic that could happen.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 729
10-09-17 02:42 PM - Post#233637    

Keep on trolling. In the Ivy tournament, and over its last four games, Harvard was the fourth best team in the league.

mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-09-17 02:46 PM - Post#233639    

What does "compete" mean to you? The context of where you see other Ivies and what you're competing for is important. To me, competing for the one seed means being a Top 75 team. Having a reasonable shot at stealing a tourney game at home or maybe even two probably is more like Top 150.

While I think the latter is possible, the former is seemingly crazy talk.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-09-17 02:52 PM - Post#233640    

Over Harvard's final 4 games, it was No. 119 nationally. Over the same span, Princeton was No. 43, Yale was 126 and Penn was No. 213.

Trolling is throwing purposely inflammatory opinions out there meant to provoke others. I'm literally just reading you the facts.
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
10-09-17 02:59 PM - Post#233641    

Didn't Harvard lose to all 3 of those teams in it's final 4 games?
palestra38
Professor
Posts 16377
10-09-17 03:12 PM - Post#233642    

Trolling is acknowledging that the numbers for the last 9 games are much better than the last 4 (as well as a larger sample) and then trying to make a point using only the last 4.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
10-09-17 03:12 PM - Post#233643    

no, no that's not at all what trolling is.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-09-17 03:17 PM - Post#233644    

That's not really trolling, and that's not what I was trying to do either. My point merely is that if you wanted to use the final 9, which is a really small sample, you'd feel more comfortable if two halves of the 9 were closer than Top 50 team and non-Top 200 team. That's what makes Penn's final 9 game ranking so pointless, because it didn't really ever play like that average team.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 729
10-09-17 03:25 PM - Post#233645    

It's ranking for the season may have been 119 over the last four games; but, in the last games it lost to Penn, Princeton & Yale.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 16377
10-09-17 03:26 PM - Post#233646    

That's why I tried to give you the numbers on the 3 freshmen, which were pretty consistent over that period. The variance occurred primarily among guys like Donahue and Jones, who aren't going to play as much this year. Moreover, their 3 losses in the last 9 were by 2,3 and 8 in OT while their wins (except for Harvard) were big wins. I think they played pretty consistently well over that period. But I agree that it is a small sample. We'll just have to see how it goes from the start this year. It will be important not to burn out AJ as they did last year. But there are more options.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-09-17 03:47 PM - Post#233651    

No, that's the ranking from that four-game sample.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 3731
10-09-17 04:08 PM - Post#233653    

Penn was a pretty uneven team with results that ranged from a home loss to Dartmouth and a home victory over Harvard. My guess is if we don't have a few new bodies in the mix, we'll be uneven again. I doubt Brodeur hits the wall like he did last year and that ought to help some. Still .....,

I happen to think Woods looked very good in most of the games leading up to his academic issues. The 3 point shooting wasn't great but we don't get great 3 point shooting from our other pg candidates. So I'm guessing he starts. I also think if our freshmen don't see the court early on, we'll end up with the same team we put on the floor last year.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
10-09-17 04:12 PM - Post#233654    

Matt Cotton set to announce decision at 6 today per the twitters.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 9576
10-09-17 04:34 PM - Post#233656    

Gonna take his talents to [insert joke here]....
20Penn14
Junior
Posts 262
10-09-17 05:05 PM - Post#233657    

He is going to Yale
Penndemonium
Masters Student
Posts 576
10-09-17 05:45 PM - Post#233660    

Ack. Is this confirmed?
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-09-17 05:49 PM - Post#233661    

Yeah, announced shortly after 6.
Penndemonium
Masters Student
Posts 576
10-09-17 05:53 PM - Post#233662    

Shoot. I thought he would be the perfect bridge in our recruiting classes to raise the team a notch. Per the observations of others, one very strong recruit helps solidify us in the top 4 and makes us a threat among the top 2-3.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
10-09-17 06:45 PM - Post#233664    

So, not a great look for our recruiting efforts or ability to close against the top 3 Ivy teams... we literally had the home court advantage (his parents live in SJ), and still couldn't make it happen.

With the litany of other misses, there is Mike Wang who I think would be a nice pickup and then...

Seriously curious if anyone knows of any other quality kids on our radar for 2018? As I said above, in today's Ivy you can't whiff on a class and expect to succeed.
PennFan10
PhD Student
Posts 1123
10-09-17 07:19 PM - Post#233667    

I am sure there are gap year kids at the NMH, New Hampton Brewster league that are available.
20Penn14
Junior
Posts 262
10-09-17 07:22 PM - Post#233668    

The other players still listed on VC are:

Kris Wooten 6'0 180 PG
Trey Wertz 6'5 180 SG 3* ESPN
Akuwovo 'Savior' Ogeneyole 6'9 SF



Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
10-09-17 08:01 PM - Post#233669    

Mike Wang or GTFO
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
10-09-17 08:35 PM - Post#233670    

Trey Wertz looks like a great prospect, but based on online information he doesn't seem to be considering Penn at this point.

Not much about Kris Wooten online, but we offered in July so seems relatively recent (and decent offers in Fordham and BU).

Saviour Akuwovo looks like an interesting prospect, but we offered him almost a year and a half ago, so have no idea where that really stands. Also very little about him online.

Then there is Mike Wang who I would be happy to see commit to Penn.

Still... not a lot of options left that are public.

T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Masters Student
Posts 715
10-09-17 09:08 PM - Post#233671    

Well phooey.

Nice to see all the Yale fans overjoyed at this news over on their board. What the hell is James Jones selling over there? It's not like the facilities are all that (though Payne Whitney does have its quirky charms). I'm not aware of a super-involved fan base or noisy alums with a deep commitment to the basketball team. Is it just the brand advantage? Financial aid advantage? J.J.'s sparkling personality?

A few weeks ago Mike was telling us that he "wasn't sure who we were competing against" for Mr. Cotton's services. Nice to see Yale swoop in and grab him.

This really stinks.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
10-09-17 09:16 PM - Post#233672    

Josh re: Penn's remaining 2018 effort

Josh Verlin‏
It's not the type of class where they need kids, with 2016/17 being so strong. So they went after a few top kids, but ultimately focused on '19.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
10-09-17 11:35 PM - Post#233673    

  • Mike Porter Said:
Trey Wertz looks like a great prospect, but based on online information he doesn't seem to be considering Penn at this point




Well, shows what I know from reading into stuff online.

Per @JustinByerly
2018 guard Trey Wertz of Team Loaded NC/Providence Day will take an official visit to Penn this weekend.

Based on most recent offers, Trey Wertz looks like a great prospect. I don't know what type of chance we have, but good job by coaches to get him to visit.
91Quake
Masters Student
Posts 462
10-10-17 06:50 AM - Post#233675    

He took an official to Temple two weekends ago and was on an official to Santa Clara last weekend.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-10-17 07:13 AM - Post#233676    

Don't read into it that Yale wasn't in there and suddenly swooped in. Yale was there. A lot was unclear at that time (Harvard hadn't landed its targets yet, for instance, so whether it would be in the running wasn't known), but it became clear pretty quickly that it was Penn-Yale and that Yale was the leader. There was a bit of time last week where that seemed to vacillate, but yesterday there wasn't a lot of mystery about who he'd choose.

Trey's more highly regarded than Cotton, so landing him would be a nice response. Don't see it happening, though.
rbg
Masters Student
Posts 453
10-10-17 08:07 AM - Post#233678    

Cotton's choice should not be much of a surprise - back on 9/20, Mike posted that Kelly and Cotton would both end up at Yale.

While I have no ties to the Elis, I could certainly understand why an highly rated student-athlete would want to join its team. Top 5 university, very good coach, 2 championships in the last 3 years, 17 years in the upper division of the IL, and 8 players presently in the pros are some of the reasons why a clear headed young man would choose to go to Yale. While Penn certainly has lots to offer, can it, at this time, match Yale's recent results?

It would be great if Wertz ended up at Penn, however, I am trying to keep lower expectations. FWIW, his father, who covers local basketball for the Charlotte Observer, re-tweeted an announcement that SMU would be coming to Providence Day to watch his son. He did not re-tweet the items regarding his son's upcoming visit to Penn.

I certainly appreciate Josh's statement about '18 recruiting. On the other hand, Penn gave out a rather large number of offers (at least 15, I believe) for a class they may not have had much interest. Also, they lost out to conference rivals for several of the top prospects that they may have targeted.

While Harvard, Princeton and Yale continue to distance themselves from the other 5 schools with on-court performance, they seem to be doing the same on the recruiting trail. Assuming SD has taken a more passive approach to the class of '18, the pressure will really be on for the class of '19.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
10-10-17 10:17 AM - Post#233694    

you know what?

This S U C K S.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
10-10-17 03:45 PM - Post#233731    

To be clear, I think Josh's statement is valuable from an informational standpoint and extremely disappointing from the standpoint of Penn's ability to execute in recruiting thus far.
SomeGuy
Postdoc
Posts 4224
10-10-17 05:12 PM - Post#233746    

For the record, I think we have a good chance to close the gap to the top 3 this year. I am optimistic. I think we've got two very good players who complement each other in AJ and Betley. Just need another to join them. My quibble with you was just with the liklihood that Woods is that guy -- I think it is more likely to end up being one of the freshmen. Sorry if we got kind of negative in discussing that.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-11-17 08:59 PM - Post#233830    

Mike Wang to Penn.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 2909
10-11-17 10:08 PM - Post#233831    

So, would we call this good-ish news?
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
10-12-17 01:16 AM - Post#233833    

I'd be curious to hear what Mike James and others closer to it think. Particularly what the perception of Wang is versus other 2018 bigs that have committed.

Without any inside info I'm personallly excited for it. Wang is a 3 star recruit per 247 and ESPN (he was actually rated higher overall than Matt Cotton by both). He plays at a top school with big time players in practice everyday, and he is 6'9" or 6'10" and shoots 3s which is a good fit for our offense. He has a nice looking shot with a seemingly quick release. He also seems to be playing well starting his senior season even sharing the ball with highly rated kids.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
10-12-17 07:23 AM - Post#233835    

I don't know much about Wang but based on the few clips and writeups I've seen I think he's a good fit for Donahue's offense. His ability on defense is likely to determine what his ceiling is. I don't know one way or the other about that.

Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 3524
10-12-17 08:27 AM - Post#233840    

Seriously glad we got Wang.

Now excited to move on the really fun part of recruiting where Penn's coach signs someone in February and is shocked that they were able to find such a good recruit under the radar while we all nod knowingly.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
10-12-17 09:19 AM - Post#233843    

While Miller and Allen played that game on occasion (remember that kid Gallagher recruited from a trip to Australia?), Donahue hasn't.

BTW Wang has been a PF because he plays with Manute Bol's son on his HS team and Shaq's son on his AAU team.

AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 3731
10-12-17 09:34 AM - Post#233845    

I think Wang is a PF period. He might be considered a 5 in a Princeton style offense even though their style has evolved. But teach him the hook shot and the up and under and he looks like Hans Brase or the many Princeton 5's that proceeded him. For us, he looks like a 4.

PS Bol did play on that California Supreme team along with Harvard recruit Spencer Freedman. When Bol showed up, he was their lead scorer. When he missed games Freedman usually led them in scoring. Wang actually played against Mason Forbes in the Peach Jam tourney.

The big question has already been asked by others - defensive ability. There is little team defense played in AAU ball and highlight film tends to feature blocks rather than defensive fundamentals. So - who knows.
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 2909
10-12-17 09:58 AM - Post#233847    

Maybe I'm naive, but I'm not worried about his defensive abilities. Donahue et al appear to have developed a defensive scheme that players who are not individual defensive standouts can execute effectively as a team. I expect that Wang will be able to play within that system as well.

I also can't help but notice that he seems to have a pretty good form on his jump shot, with a nice, high release point.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
10-12-17 10:18 AM - Post#233848    

SM, you're being naive.

First, there's little chance he's going to be able to get away with being the primary "under the basket" defender (I know you didn't say he would be, just pointing it out). It's Brodeur now, then hopefully Simmons after that. So I'm happy he's played mostly at PF in HS.

Wang is going to have to be able to guard the other team's PF, which is sometimes going to be a tall wing. And you can't hide everyone on defense, even with the type of schemes Penn was using last year. And you can't play zone all the time.


Okoro Dude
Junior
Posts 266
10-12-17 10:28 AM - Post#233849    

I'm with you. Seems like a solid recruit with a track record playing with and against other very good players. Doesn't catch us up to the others, but I would have been seriously depressed to lose out on yet another known target.

Let's hope there is at least one nice surprise left. Only need to hit on a couple of the right kids per class. Our margin for error in this class is still low, but I feel better than I did yesterday.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-12-17 10:55 AM - Post#233852    

My comp would be Jon Jaques. Role player. Good floor spacer. Might not ever be a guy that plays 25-30 mins a game - rather more of a right spot, right time type. He certainly has a plus skill, which is always a good starting point.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
10-12-17 11:42 AM - Post#233858    

Funny, Jaques was the player I was thinking of but I haven't seen enough of Wang to know how good of a comp that really is.

Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
10-12-17 01:29 PM - Post#233863    

I was wondering if a slightly more versital Jan Fikiel was a good comparison? Either way still happy to see him come to Penn.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
10-12-17 02:08 PM - Post#233865    

Mike, you may be underestimating how good Jaques was as a floor spacer his senior year.

Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
10-15-17 06:12 PM - Post#234017    

Think we've hashed out Mike Wang convo quite a bit but sorry I never responded here.

Bottom line I don't like any of the comparisons (including my own) because I've seen so little video, but what I do know is I'm glad Wang is coming to Penn because I'm a fan of 6'9"/6'10" guys who can hit 3s! I'm going to see if I can catch a game or two of his out here if possible. That will prob be more valuable.


Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
10-15-17 06:14 PM - Post#234018    

Changing gears...

I saw Amir Harris decommitted from URI. I know his final two before were URI and Temple, but anyone know if there is a chance we could get back in the mix here?
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 2909
10-15-17 07:52 PM - Post#234022    

  • Mike Porter Said:

Bottom line I don't like any of the comparisons (including my own) because I've seen so little video, but what I do know is I'm glad Wang is coming to Penn because I'm a fan of 6'9"/6'10" guys who can hit 3s!




I'm pretty sure Steve Donahue feels the same way. Wang's game is likely to fit well into Penn's system.
20Penn14
Junior
Posts 262
10-16-17 04:57 PM - Post#234057    

Kris Wooten tweeted that he will announce his decision on Friday
6'0 180 PG with offers from: Fordham, Penn, Boston University, Elon, American


Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
10-20-17 01:46 PM - Post#234266    

Doesn't seem like he was a priority, but looks like he committed to Elon.
besnoah
Masters Student
Posts 595
10-22-17 01:12 PM - Post#234332    

Verbal Commits
2018 Providence Day (NC) G Trey Wertz has committed to Santa Clara.
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-22-17 02:34 PM - Post#234336    

Yeah, sadly was never going Ivy. Won't lose good kids like this forever, but still not quite to the point where going Ivy is an easy decision for all.
Penndemonium
Masters Student
Posts 576
10-22-17 04:23 PM - Post#234339    

mrjames, I'm curious what you mean by that. Is there still a meaningful financial gap vs. a scholarship?
penn nation
Professor
Posts 9576
10-22-17 06:47 PM - Post#234345    

  • Penndemonium Said:
mrjames, I'm curious what you mean by that. Is there still a meaningful financial gap vs. a scholarship?



This has been the subject of many a heated thread on this board, as the answer is "it depends".

If you're talking about Harvard nowadays, for example, the answer is probably 'no' given its unparalleled ability to dole out financial aid versus some of the other Ivies.

mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-22-17 07:47 PM - Post#234347    

Our league loses/does not compete for lots of talent each year that doesn't get a full or substantially full ride under current FA guidelines. There don't seem to be real substantial, consistent differences between the schools on the FA front, however the strategy behind which prospects to pursue given an FA read obviously differs. It's all game theory; Finite resources, can't pursue everyone, so, all else equal, do I pursue the prospect that will get a full ride but for whose services I face stiff competition across the league OR do I pursue a prospect that has to pay a substantial amount, but for whose services I might have a much clearer shot.

Teams that are more confident they can win battles against the rest of the league might, given the parameters of this game, opt to endure the competition for prospects who get full aid, while others might try to prioritize some prospects who might be willing to pay to attend but might not.

Not speaking to the specific case here, but just Ivy recruiting in general right now.
Penndemonium
Masters Student
Posts 576
10-23-17 02:44 AM - Post#234353    

Thanks mrjames. Clearly Harvard and Princeton are in the camp of confident they can win vs. competition. Not clear if Yale or Penn should feel that confidence or not.


Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2075
10-23-17 10:20 PM - Post#234449    

Perhaps, you could cite a few examples?
rbg
Masters Student
Posts 453
10-24-17 07:59 AM - Post#234456    

Looks like Wertz chose Santa Clara, in part, for the allure of playing for Coach Sendek and becoming the next James Harden.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/high-schoo...


AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 3731
10-27-17 05:31 AM - Post#234712    

Penn offered 2018 Ricky Lindo who I believe is a 2018 hs grad even though one of the recruiting sites lists him as a 2019.

Lindo is 6-7 or 6-8 with guard like skills (grew 6 inches in hs). He would seem to be a wing in our system who would be strong at attacking the basket and defending his position. The film on the internet dates back to Dec 2016 and shows him making his 3 pointers. He has a classic stroke but, as we all know, highlight film tends to leave out the misses.

At any rate, we missed out on a couple of good wings, Lindo has a bunch of Ivy and other mid major offers and would be a very interesting addition to our 2018 class (assuming he is a 2018).
mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-27-17 07:23 AM - Post#234730    

Heard that name a *lot* more earlier in the cycle. It's not a great sign when you stop hearing a name, but there can be a lot of reasons for it - not all bad.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
10-27-17 07:50 AM - Post#234742    

Highlights remind me of Danny Monckton. Has some hops, could be a useful defender, made outside shots (of course) and didn't look awkward at it.

Other offers look to be from comparables (Ivy, Patriot) and low/mid-majors if info on sites are accurate.

Plays in a public HS which may account for lack of publicity. I'm in just for that - AI's biggest casualty has been the urban public HS player.

https://www.prephoops.com/2017/07/recruiting-re por...


AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 3731
10-27-17 07:50 AM - Post#234743    

Between Twitter and other recruiting sites there are indications of the following offers:

Penn - just now
Long Beach State - 10/18
Bucknell - 10/13
East Carolina - 7/4
JMU - 5/2
GW - 5/1
Lehigh 4/26
Loyola -4/26
Yale - 4/24
High Point - 4/23
Brown -4/18
Harvard - 4/8
Campbell -2/17
RMU - 1/25
BGU - 1/25
Canisus - 1/25
Mt St Mary's - 1/3

mrjames
Postdoc
Posts 4844
10-27-17 08:34 AM - Post#234749    

Don't know about Brown, but Harvard and Yale offers don't exist anymore, I don't think.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
10-27-17 08:55 AM - Post#234755    

Plays for Panamanian youth teams.

Seems stoked about the Penn offer on twitter.

AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 3731
10-27-17 09:02 AM - Post#234758    

I agree Mike. You have Kirkwood and Yale has Cotton.

I forgot Columbia on the list I posted. They offered him on 1/16.
T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Masters Student
Posts 715
10-27-17 09:11 AM - Post#234761    

Kid plays at Wilson, my local public school. May have to check him out.

What exactly constitutes a recruiting violation? Just want to be clear.
91Quake
Masters Student
Posts 462
10-27-17 09:46 AM - Post#234778    

Considering UNC got no penalties for fake classes, I think you have to hand them an envelope of cash. And post the video online. And alert the NCAA as to what happened. (For the record, I joke.)


palestra38
Professor
Posts 16377
10-27-17 10:00 AM - Post#234784    

Yet Pitino got run out of town by a blowjob (he clearly would have survived the current scandal had it not been for that).
KenZ
Postdoc
Posts 2521
KenZ
10-27-17 10:33 AM - Post#234799    

Lindo indicated some time ago that he plans to do a post grad year. i assume this is why the chatter quieted down and also why he is listed as a 2019.
91Quake
Masters Student
Posts 462
10-27-17 11:51 AM - Post#234811    

That is accurate but he seems to have recently maybe changed his thinking and could come in as a 2018.

Another interesting aspect here is that he grew 6" from his sophomore to his junior season and went from being a guard to much more of a wing player.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
10-27-17 12:24 PM - Post#234820    

A meet and greet at ShopRite is OK. Offering to put the tab on your Price Plus card might not be.

T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Masters Student
Posts 715
10-27-17 12:49 PM - Post#234829    

  • TheLine Said:
A meet and greet at ShopRite is OK. Offering to put the tab on your Price Plus card might not be.



How about the Whole Foods across the street from his high school?
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3187
10-27-17 01:19 PM - Post#234835    

That would equate to an athletic scholarship. Don't tell Robin Harris.

Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
10-27-17 01:37 PM - Post#234841    

Per Jesse Dougherty of WashPo:

Lindo Jr. is extremely versatile at 6-7 and is still deciding whether he’ll prep next year or enroll at a college in Class of 2018.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
10-27-17 01:38 PM - Post#234842    

Like the sound of this:

Ricky Lindo Jr. 6'8" 2018, Wilson HS, awarded Doctor of Dunk 1 of best dunkers in DMV Exc D1 recruit
prephoops.com/2017/10/doctor…
@Lanky_smoove_
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 2207
Mike Porter
10-27-17 01:46 PM - Post#234845    

Wonder if our offer is for 2018?

Also looks like he did well at local Philly event in last few weeks:

#BlackCagerClassic standouts: Ricky Lindo, Jyare Davis, Eric Dixon, Seth Lundy, Xander Rice, Ace Baldwin, Ayinde Hikim, Tyler Spann



Copyright © 2004-2012 Basketball U. Terms of Use for our Site and Privacy Policy are applicable to you. All rights reserved.
Basketball U. and its subsidiaries are not affiliated in any way with any NCAA athletic conference or member institution.
FusionBB™ Version 2.1 | ©2003-2007 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.184 seconds.   Total Queries: 15   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0500) Eastern. Current time is 01:03 AM
Top