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Username Post: League Nightmare
Chet Forte
PhD Student
Posts 1797
03-09-17 10:48 AM - Post#225853    

The IL made a monumental mistake in using the Palestra for the initial tournament. It means that a very mediocre Penn team with a losing record gets to play a home game against an undefeated Princeton team, which, and we all know based upon our first game against Princeton, can be beaten. We all know how worked up the Penn fans are going to be. We also know how it is very tough for any visiting team to play 5 versus 8 at the Palestra. So Penn may very well upset Princeton. If that happens, Princeton will not get a second bid and it will be a footnote to history.

Go Green
Junior
Posts 261
03-09-17 11:06 AM - Post#225860    


May I respectfully suggest that the "nightmare" scenario is really an undefeated Princeton playing a strong #2 Penn seed? In that case, the HCA could very well be the difference in the came even if Princeton plays well.

Princeton *should* beat this Penn team. If they blow it, it will be because they played like crap, and not because of HCA.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15899
03-09-17 11:15 AM - Post#225864    

The reason they used the Palestra is pretty obvious--they have an ESPN 2 Selection Sunday final and wanted it to be someplace that they can take some pride in.

Next year it's likely to be in a different place, especially if Penn upsets Princeton, but given the time frame in planning this and obtaining TV coverage, there was no other place to play.
HARVARDDADGRAD
Masters Student
Posts 808
03-09-17 11:19 AM - Post#225866    

In the event Princeton wins Saturday, I wonder if Harvard/Yale could entice the returning students to fill the stands and root against Princeton? Free Pizza?
Go Green
Junior
Posts 261
03-09-17 11:19 AM - Post#225867    


Anyone who cares about my opinion, I love the Palestra and would be fine with it being the permanent location of the Ivy tournament.

Should be a good weekend!
Go Green
Junior
Posts 261
03-09-17 11:26 AM - Post#225868    

  • HARVARDDADGRAD Said:
In the event Princeton wins Saturday, I wonder if Harvard/Yale could entice the returning students to fill the stands and root against Princeton? Free Pizza?



That's pretty much what Bucknell did for the Northern Iowa students/band after they got eliminated and Bucknell was about to play Kansas in the next game.

It worked.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15899
03-09-17 11:27 AM - Post#225869    

Well, other than my ongoing belief that we need to send our best team to the Tournament and that a playoff takes away from that goal (I would feel differently if I thought there was any chance of a 2nd bid, but I don't think there is any such chance), I agree with you. But if Penn knocks off Princeton, you have to think there will be a clamor to play in a neutral site.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15899
03-09-17 11:30 AM - Post#225870    

I don't know if Northern Iowa students have the same capacity as, say Penn students, to take over a bar and order bottle service.

http://www.phillymag.com/articles/penn-parties -pho...

Don't know if Pizza will get it done.

Then again, Penn students aren't going to be there no matter what....we alums can more easily be bribed to watch basketball. Hell, I went to the Harvard-Yale playoff game at the Palestra a couple of years ago.
Go Green
Junior
Posts 261
03-09-17 11:33 AM - Post#225872    

  • palestra38 Said:
I don't know if Northern Iowa students have the same capacity as, say Penn students, to take over a bar and order bottle service.

http://www.phillymag.com/articles/penn-parties -pho...

Don't know if Pizza will get it done.




Sounds like the movie "The Social Network" really changed things for Ivy parties.

TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3043
03-09-17 11:34 AM - Post#225873    

I agree with Go Green and P38. Princeton knows how to win at the Palestra, they do it with regularity.

The Palestra was an obvious place to play the initial tournament, it's the flagship basketball arena of the league. It's unfortunate that a below .500 Penn team will wind up getting home court advantage, but the alternatives were :

1) Split the women's and man's finals. But the league didn't want to do that.

2) Play at the home court of the top seed. But which top seed, the men's or women's? What if the top seed's home arena isn't big enough to host?

3) Host at generic available decent size arena. The one in Bridgeport, CT was one option offered up in a separate thread. Issues are that a) limited charm in having the initial tournament not on/near one of the campuses; b) unclear what attendance will be, the Palestra will look good for TV regardless.

4) Don't have a tournament because 'fair' would have the winner of the regular season go to the tournament.

I'm guessing if this tournament is a success then the league is going to have to figure out how to make option 3) work.

HARVARDDADGRAD
Masters Student
Posts 808
03-09-17 11:48 AM - Post#225880    

I'm still pulling for Mohegan Sun Arena!

Filled with bars, restaurants, pedestrian space, convention halls and even free parking. All INSIDE! Temps range from high of 33 to low of 17 degrees Saturday in Philly!


palestra38
Professor
Posts 15899
03-09-17 11:49 AM - Post#225882    

Luckily, they are playing indoors. It's not as though the streets of Philadelphia will be anything like those faced by Mark Wahlberg in "The Martian" as people head out to restaurants and bars after the game.
HARVARDDADGRAD
Masters Student
Posts 808
03-09-17 11:51 AM - Post#225883    

Yes, but parking is not good around the Palestra. Walked 15 minutes in similar weather last weekend.

Any suggestions on parking for this weekend?
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3043
03-09-17 12:02 PM - Post#225885    

By the tennis court, if that's an option. It's a bit tricky to find though.

If not then there are parking facilities not far away - 34th St above Chestnut or the one across from Franklin Field on South St.

palestra38
Professor
Posts 15899
03-09-17 12:06 PM - Post#225887    

Yes, but don't tell anyone I told you this.

On the Walnut Street Bridge, between 30th and 33rd Streets, there are 12 hour meters for $5. Get a street spot, and you can walk into the Palestra from the rear entrance by descending the staircase at 32nd Street.
HARVARDDADGRAD
Masters Student
Posts 808
03-09-17 12:08 PM - Post#225888    

Thanks.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3043
03-09-17 12:18 PM - Post#225893    

The tennis center option - which works well for Friday and Saturday night games after the tennis center is closed but not so well during the day : make right off Chestnut onto 31st St, which leads you to lower Walnut St. Make right and left. Or make left to lot by the new fields. You then need to take the walk bridge at the far side of the tennis center.

Don't tell anyone I gave you this tip.

HARVARDDADGRAD
Masters Student
Posts 808
03-09-17 12:22 PM - Post#225894    

I think I parked there last Sat night. Lot said all day parking for $13 and everyone was paying it. I parked on the adjacent street for $2.25 (MAX thru 8pm) and tried to advise others waiting in line to pay to do the same. Windy walk to Will Call up steps on Walnut.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 3043
03-09-17 12:28 PM - Post#225895    

I used to park in the tennis center lot for free right by the base of the walk bridge - but that only ever works for low attendance games. So it won't apply this coming weekend.

LionFan
Senior
Posts 373
03-10-17 01:05 PM - Post#226081    

Rather than a nightmare, I think the league should be overjoyed its first round games feature its top rivalries. What's better in the Ivies than Penn-Princeton and Harvard-Yale? (After Columbia versus anyone, I mean.)
HARVARDDADGRAD
Masters Student
Posts 808
03-10-17 03:11 PM - Post#226126    

Except that thousands of tix are still available for both days.
westphillywarrior
Sophomore
Posts 131
03-10-17 03:19 PM - Post#226129    

  • TheLine Said:
I agree with Go Green and P38. Princeton knows how to win at the Palestra, they do it with regularity.

The Palestra was an obvious place to play the initial tournament, it's the flagship basketball arena of the league. It's unfortunate that a below .500 Penn team will wind up getting home court advantage, but the alternatives were :

1) Split the women's and man's finals. But the league didn't want to do that.

2) Play at the home court of the top seed. But which top seed, the men's or women's? What if the top seed's home arena isn't big enough to host?

3) Host at generic available decent size arena. The one in Bridgeport, CT was one option offered up in a separate thread. Issues are that a) limited charm in having the initial tournament not on/near one of the campuses; b) unclear what attendance will be, the Palestra will look good for TV regardless.

4) Don't have a tournament because 'fair' would have the winner of the regular season go to the tournament.

I'm guessing if this tournament is a success then the league is going to have to figure out how to make option 3) work.




You didn't list the best option.

Play the semi-final games on the higher seeded team home court for both the men and the women. These games would reward the top two finishers with a home game. Would be played in the middle of the week.

And find a suitable decent sized neutral arena for a championship men's and women's doubleheader Saturday or Sunday.

Go Green
Junior
Posts 261
03-17-17 03:28 PM - Post#227492    

  • westphillywarrior Said:

You didn't list the best option.

Play the semi-final games on the higher seeded team home court for both the men and the women. These games would reward the top two finishers with a home game. Would be played in the middle of the week.

And find a suitable decent sized neutral arena for a championship men's and women's doubleheader Saturday or Sunday.




Tall order to expect students/fans to rush to a neutral venue with only a few days' notice.

Relatedly, it kind of defeats the "we want to bring the league together" idea. With both semis and the finals at one venue, you potentially could have the teams from all eight schools in one place.
Chet Forte
PhD Student
Posts 1797
03-17-17 03:54 PM - Post#227497    

I think having the tournament at the Palestra is going to be an argument that Penn will use in recruiting. I think it gives them an unfair recruiting edge. The two highest seeds should host the first game. The highest seed survivor should host the final.

Go Green
Junior
Posts 261
03-17-17 04:20 PM - Post#227503    

  • Chet Forte Said:
I The two highest seeds should host the first game. The highest seed survivor should host the final.



Again, the men's and women's tournaments are expected to be held at the same venue.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3084
03-17-17 10:13 PM - Post#227518    

That's not set in stone. It was a stupid Harris talking point but there isn't much call for it.
Go Green
Junior
Posts 261
03-18-17 09:11 AM - Post#227532    

  • SRP Said:
That's not set in stone. It was a stupid Harris talking point but there isn't much call for it.



Fair enough that it’s not set in stone.

But for the time being, it appears to be one of the parameters that we have to work with. So it may make sense to take it into account when voicing an opinion about what to do with the tournament next year.

It’s like guys on the football board giving dire warnings that the Ivy is headed to D-III without giving any indication that they know about the Dayton Rule.

HARVARDDADGRAD
Masters Student
Posts 808
03-18-17 05:26 PM - Post#227571    

I believe Ms. Harris also said the Penn banners would come down and that the Palestra would look totally different in an effort to remove the home court advantage. Didn't happen.

This is a basketball tournament. It is explicitly NOT to determine the league champ. It is only to select the NCAA representative. It is NOT a carnival or league wide social event. Other than an ice sculpture, there was nothing outside of the basketball game and extended courtside awards. A basketball tournament to choose a winner first and foremost has to have competitive integrity and a home court advantage and travel discrepancy for players, students, families and fans destroys that.
SecS3
Freshman
Posts 26
03-18-17 05:38 PM - Post#227574    

Yeah, I got a big laugh out of her saying they did everything they could to make it look like a neutral court. I guess covering the red and blue P at center court fooled everyone into thinking they weren't in Philadelphia any more.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3084
03-19-17 01:47 PM - Post#227699    

I wondered about the banners business. Where did Harris get the idea that they were coming down?
PennFan10
Masters Student
Posts 981
03-19-17 03:10 PM - Post#227722    

  • SRP Said:
That's not set in stone. It was a stupid Harris talking point but there isn't much call for it.



It's not Robin Harris' idea. She is spokesperson for the President's and AD's and in every interview she has said holding both tournaments at the same venue was a priority. May not be set in stone but it's also not a "stupid Harris talking point". She didn't make it up. It's clearly a priority by the decision makers.
Go Green
Junior
Posts 261
03-23-17 11:52 AM - Post#227974    


Anyone who wants to cling to the fiction that Mitch Henderson was on his knees thanking God after the first round game for avoiding the nightmare of losing to Penn at the Palestra… that’s not what was on his mind.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/ india...

SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3084
03-23-17 01:08 PM - Post#227986    

Kind of a strained link to the issue of the tourney. More appropriate in the thread on the Princeton board about MH's future--as an Indiana native he could be technically considered a candidate for the IU job among the Dakich faction that wants an Indiana guy for the job.
Go Green
Junior
Posts 261
03-23-17 01:19 PM - Post#227988    

  • SRP Said:
Kind of a strained link to the issue of the tourney.



I won't argue too much with that.

But I am amused by the impression some guys have left that MH was dry-heaving in the locker room after the Penn game because the unfairness of having to play the game at the Palestra was too much to bear.



SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3084
03-23-17 05:11 PM - Post#228030    

The fact that MH doesn't have to sweat getting to the NCAAa is one of the perquisites of his (and most Ivy) jobs. Along with other job characteristics, it makes up somewhat for the lower salary. (And it's another reason why the committee will never give an at-large bid to a second Ivy when a coach in another conference who needs the bid to keep his job can be rewarded instead.)
Chet Forte
PhD Student
Posts 1797
03-23-17 09:15 PM - Post#228051    

MH is an obvious choice for the Georgetown gig, at a million plus.

Chet Forte
PhD Student
Posts 1797
03-23-17 09:16 PM - Post#228052    

Although Imhave heard that Amaker's name is in the mix. He would be looking at 1.5 or more.

SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3084
03-23-17 09:42 PM - Post#228053    

Considering that Princeton ended up 10 spots ahead of Georgetown on KenPom, that wouldn't be crazy, but the G'Town fans would burn down the athletics building if they tried anything like that. They want to move away from the whole "Ivy" and "Princeton" image.
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2004
03-25-17 08:42 PM - Post#228132    

Perhaps. The money would, I'm sure, be very tempting. But, a plus in Ivy coaching, especially for Mitch, is that you don't have to kiss a$$. The players don't have an entitlement ego, as they have more reason to be there than simply to fulfill the jock dream of going NBA. The coaches have a great deal more to offer prospects than simply playing time. And, in Mitch's case, he has been an Ivy star and understands the many demands that his players must face off the court.

When an Ivy coach moves up to a power conference the pressures for immediate success increase exponentially as well as the egos of the players.
Chet Forte
PhD Student
Posts 1797
03-26-17 11:19 AM - Post#228145    

I was astonished to read that JTIII was making 3.6 million a year. Of course that's only half of the 7.2 that Duke is paying Coach K.

Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2004
03-26-17 12:21 PM - Post#228150    

I hope that JT III is relieved to have his life back with enough cash in the bank to do whatever he chooses.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15899
03-26-17 01:14 PM - Post#228153    

Maybe he'll have enough to come live with you on the shores of the Sea of Cortez!
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2004
03-26-17 02:40 PM - Post#228155    

Asi lo espero, pero, !lastima! volvere en Los Estados Unidos miercoles.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15899
03-26-17 03:46 PM - Post#228160    

Are you sure they'll allow you in? Guys who live most of the year in Mexico are threats to take our jobs and run away with our women.
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2004
03-26-17 05:53 PM - Post#228172    

I've been trying my best with the women ... ... and I am definitely NOT going to take away anyone's job!



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