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Username Post: Penn game thread
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 03:11 PM - Post#226269    

Not a great start. Two of Penn's first three baskets were in transition and the Tigers missed some open looks. Penn looked a lot looser than Princeton, as you'd expect. Stephens uncharacteristically behind a step or two on defense, leading to at least five Quaker points. He seemed to be focusing a lot more on scoring. Too many PU turnovers, Weisz taking tough shots.

Betley and Brodeur playing well. Only one turnover forced in the first ten minutes by Princeton.


SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 03:28 PM - Post#226276    

Down three at the half, which is pretty good considering the rather putrid, tight play by Princeton through the first 15 minutes. Eight first-half TOs is not going to get it done.

As time wore on, though, Princeton's defense got better and better, forcing turnovers, blocking shots, making Penn uncomfortable. Howard hit a trey with a man in his face, but they've unraveled a bit.
Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts 1439
03-11-17 03:33 PM - Post#226281    

Error in box score:

Princeton 7 turnovers, Penn 6 (not 8-5).
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 03:36 PM - Post#226282    

First half stats: Penn 5-10 from three, Princeton 3-6. Penn with 5 turnovers, Princeton with 8. Penn has not attempted a free throw, Princeton 3-4.

Given the TO issue, pretty good that Princeton has had only one fewer shot at the basket than Penn, but some of those were multiple attempts on the same possession. Nine assists on 12 FGs, so things are starting to look better from a flow point of view.

Weisz and Cannady 1-11 from the field.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 03:37 PM - Post#226284    

Stephens gets fouled scoring on a drive, no call.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 03:38 PM - Post#226285    

Now have missed four consecutive open treys. ORs don't help if you can't convert.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 03:41 PM - Post#226288    

Penn's lead back to 8 with 17:00 left. Bell with a great drive, so Tigers now 2-7 in the second half.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 03:43 PM - Post#226289    

Cannady gets fouled driving, no call. The announcers can't understand it, they heard the smack of the foul. Then Princeton gives up an OR and follow to Penn, now down 10 with about 16 to go.

MH calls time. Princeton needs to crank up its defensive effort and cut out all the little mistakes. Get their hands on the ball more, force TOs, get some run-outs.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 03:51 PM - Post#226297    

Stephens with an amazing drive for two, Cannady with a near-stea, Bell blocks Brodeur, and a PU runout with a great Cannady long bounce pass leading to a devastating one-hand jam by Stephens. Dazed Quakers call time. Princeton down 6 with 14:30 left.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 03:52 PM - Post#226298    

Another fast transition, and Weisz hits the trailer three., Down three, but then Howard nails a trey.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 03:53 PM - Post#226299    

Stephens fighting like a madman on the offensive boards, gets to the line again. Finally hits a pair of FTs
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 03:56 PM - Post#226300    

Great D forces a Quaker shot-clock violation. Stephens has gone nuts defensively. Cook with a drive for a bucket, fouled by Brodeur and no call. Penn up 2 with the ball, but takes a bad shot and then PU forces a turnover next time. Got to score though.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 03:59 PM - Post#226303    

11:42 left in the game. Princeton down 45-47, will have the ball after a Penn foul. Time to put the hammer down. Amazing that the game is so close given Weisz 1-7 with no assists, Cook 0-4 from three, Cannady 0-2 from three.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:00 PM - Post#226304    

And another missed trey. Team is 3-13, almost a nighmare scenario.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:02 PM - Post#226306    

Weisz draws a charge. Cook takes a tough floater, Penn misses another shot, Bell drives and has his shot blocked but PU retains possession. Stephens misses a baseline two attempt, but PU's difference is suffocating Penn.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:03 PM - Post#226308    

Cook finally gets the foul call on Brodeur, misses one of two so the Tigers are down one.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:05 PM - Post#226309    

Weisz called for a foul on Howard without ever touching him.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:06 PM - Post#226312    

Brodeur finally scores for Penn, PU down three with 8:30 to go, but Bell nails a huge trey for the tie.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:15 PM - Post#226314    

Brodeur scores on Gladson, Weisz gets fouled and goes to the FT line hitting both. PU only committed 3 fouls so far. Howard gets a backdoor bucket, Cannady gets blocked at the rim, Brodeur misses from in close with his left hand, Weisz drives on Foreman and scores. Cannady steals the ball, but the Weisz post-up and Stephens follow shot do not go in. Weisz commits his fourth foul and sits. Game tied at 53, Penn ball with aobut 5:00 left.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:17 PM - Post#226316    

Bell drives, gets fouled, misses, no call. Betley drives for a bucket with no help D. PU timeout with 3;53 to go, Penn up 55-53. The tightness seems to be returning to Princeton. Every time they are about to take the lead they miss the shot.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:20 PM - Post#226317    

Weisz checks in with his four fouls. Stephens misses a turnaround short post jumper against Howard. Betley stripped by Stephens, bogus foul call made. Commentator Cuff suggests some home cooking for the Quakers.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:22 PM - Post#226318    

Another missed layup, another missed follow by Stephens after his OR. Betley misses a dagger trey, Brodeur gets his fourth foul and sends Cannady to the FT line. Cannady hits both, down two with 2;30 left.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:24 PM - Post#226320    

Howard makes a bad post entry, Brodeur knocks it out of bounds. Cannady finally gets a call on a drive, this time an iffy one. He hits two, game tied with 2:00 left.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:25 PM - Post#226322    

Penn timeout with 16 on the shot clock.

One big factor has been PU with zero turnovers in the second half, helping to compensate for their horrid shooting. They're getting a lot of good looks, but there is a lid on the basket.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:27 PM - Post#226323    

PU's D slaughters Quakers, forces terrible shot, Stephens rebounds. Cannady called, incredibly for an offensive foul after he's already released the ball. Forget the NCAA guidance, I guess.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:29 PM - Post#226324    

Howard takes a tough line-drive shot and it rolls in. Down two. Princeton calls timeout, clock runs down several seconds after timeout called. Clock says :26.8 left.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:31 PM - Post#226325    

Officials put time back on the clock, now :30.7 left, 19 on the shot clock, no timeouts for PU.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:33 PM - Post#226327    

Bell with a near turnover, goes to Weisz for a good look at a three, misses, Cook gets the OR and takes an ill-advised baseline jumper and misses. But Howard misses the front end of a one-and-one, Bell zooms down the oourt, misses the layup, Stephens tips it in for the tie.

Penn's last timeout, 5.3 seconds left. Have to hope for OT now.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:34 PM - Post#226330    

Foreman airball and we have OT. Tigers are elated, bouncing on the bench, Penn depressed.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:37 PM - Post#226333    

Stephens posts up Howard and scores, giving Princeton its first lead of the day. Tough D but then they leave Donahue wide open for three, but he misses. Stephens drives and spins for another score.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:38 PM - Post#226335    

More tough D leads to a another tough shot by Penn that misses. Cook corrals the board, gets fouled, hits one of two, up five.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:39 PM - Post#226336    

Another wild Penn drive and a miss. Miller doing a great job keeping Brodeur from touching the ball.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:43 PM - Post#226339    

Penn's offense a mess of confused bodies rushing the lane, leading to another miss and the ball out of bounds to the Tigers. Bell drives cleanly to the rim and scores, Howard misses a trey. Officials call a shot-clock violation on PU instead of the foul they probably should have. Stephens gets a block or a deflection, Tiger ball, Cannady gets fouled, hits two, lead is nine with :51 left, but then Foreman hits a trey off a good screen with a weak switch by the Tigers.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:48 PM - Post#226340    

Up 6 with :45.5 left and the ball. Penn coming up to press. Ball goes in to Cannady, he's triple-teamed and gets the foul call bail out. Foreman fouls out. Cannady hits two, lead at eight with :40.6 to go.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:49 PM - Post#226341    

Goodman drives for a layup. Tigers play beautiful keepaway and get the ball to Cannady, he's fouled again. Hits two, lead back to eight. :27 left.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:50 PM - Post#226342    

And the Tigers, finish it out, saving the Ivy League committee by pulling out the victory in this pointless and stupid game played in an unfair venue.

Now for the hard game, the winner of Harvard and Yale.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3634
03-11-17 04:51 PM - Post#226344    

1. Exciting game, objectively speaking.

2. I've said it before, but Stephens is our MVP and go-to scorer. He's the true Ivy POY.

3. Figure out the damn logistics, Ivy League. Penn's BS homecourt advantage was/is a joke. Rewarding failure and punishing perfection.

4. Again, Mitch did not get his team ready. Thank god for Stephens.

5. Did I mention that Myles Stephens is awesome?
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 04:58 PM - Post#226347    

This game was won at the foul line, Cannady 10-10 down the stretch, team 19-24 overall, Penn only 4-5.

Princeton 5-18 from three, fairly horrible. 19-42 from two, even more horrible. Stephens oddly better on offense than defense this game (although he had some nice defensive plays to balance his first-half mistakes).

Penn 8-27 from three, with about four of them wide open. 18-37 from two which is way too good. Princeton ended up winning the turnover battle 13-9, amazing considering they had 8 turnovers in the first half which means only one through the second half and OT.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3634
03-11-17 04:59 PM - Post#226348    

Also happy to see Amir Bell help save our bacon after a brutal start to the year. He found his mojo and I expect big things from him next season.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 05:01 PM - Post#226349    

Cheap shot at MH completely unwarranted. They just missed a ton of shots they usually make. Played good defense down the stretch. And Stephens almost cost the Tigers the game in the first half before coming back strong in the second half. Bell and Cannady were very good in the second half too.
1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts 2260
1LotteryPick1969
03-11-17 05:02 PM - Post#226351    

  • gokinsmen Said:
I've said it before, but Stephens is our MVP and go-to scorer. He's the true Ivy POY.



Personally I agree.

Penn did a great job keeping Cannady from open looks.

Weisz struggles against quicker opponents.

Amir Bell shooting great from 3--should have had more shots.
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2801
03-11-17 05:04 PM - Post#226353    

To Penn's credit, they neutralized our offense and I was all but certain that we had lost near the end of regulation. But today belongs to Myles. But, if I haven't already said it, THIS TOURNAMENT SUCKS!
Coloradotiger
Freshman
Posts 31
03-11-17 05:07 PM - Post#226356    

Bell's shutdown of Betley should not be overlooked. It kept us in the game in the first half.
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3988
03-11-17 05:08 PM - Post#226357    

Not great games from Weisz and Cook, but Stephens bailed them out. Despite the whining on both the PU and UP Boards, the game was well called.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 05:11 PM - Post#226361    

It was better than some of the Saturday games during the season, but not a shining example of officiating.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 05:13 PM - Post#226362    

And it figures that technical difficulties would prevent the ESPNU interview with MH, because everything else that could reduce attention to Princeton's success this year already has.
1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts 2260
1LotteryPick1969
03-11-17 05:28 PM - Post#226369    

I was playing chess with my granddaughter and watching the game obliquely.

What was the deal with the shoving match with Weisz and the Penn player? Which Penn player was it?
bradley
PhD Student
Posts 1842
03-11-17 05:42 PM - Post#226373    

Thanks for the game log.

Out of curiosity, how much did the ESPN crew attempt to justify the idiocy of the IL Tournament and the home court advantage for the Quakers. Gotta sell the product.

Robin Wolfe and the merrymen dodged the bullet as apparently, so did the Tigers. It appears that 19 in a game runner Vermont pulled out a victory in their tournament.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 05:48 PM - Post#226375    

Hey, Bradley. Glad to meet your request for a game log.

The announcers were pretty diplomatic, and did talk about how exciting the tourney was, but they did say at the end that Princeton's victory was a blow to the anti-tournament faction as disaster had been averted. Dalen Cuff really knows the Ivy League and is an excellent commentator IMO. He spoke again about how in his days at Columbia they would often feel out of it after going 3-3 early on and that the tourney would have been very popular with his teams.
bradley
PhD Student
Posts 1842
03-11-17 06:02 PM - Post#226378    

Tiger shooting stats were brutal. Top guys played a lot of minutes. Hit the sauna and ice tub.

Not surprising at all that Quakers would play them very tough. Quakers deserve credit for turning around their season and playing so much better.
sparman
PhD Student
Posts 1339
sparman
03-11-17 06:23 PM - Post#226380    

The fact that a team that is eliminated early wants another bite at the apple or that a team that lost twice already makes it a game the third time around is not surprising.

I just don't see how that justifies turning regular season into a meaningless set of de facto scrimmages. If the point of competition isn't to determine a winner, why keep score? The P-P game merely showed that if you keep giving more chances, you can expect an upset.
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2801
03-11-17 07:13 PM - Post#226391    

With only one bid, the tourney has it backwards. The 14 game winner should get the NCAA bid and the tourney winner an NIT guarantee or, if it shows well, a shot at a 2nd bid. Motivation for 14 game winner in Tourney is how well it will be seeded in NCAA. If same team wins both, there is no NIT guarantee.

I think that that addresses everything more fairly and provides incentive for everyone in the tourney.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 07:14 PM - Post#226393    

Yale upsets Harvard, so the Tiger will be facing the deep blues tomorrow.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3634
03-11-17 07:25 PM - Post#226395    

I fully support a PROPER conference tournament. But there's no way in hell it should take place at a predetermined homecourt like the Palestra. I get the logistical challenges of waiting to see who earns the top seed, but at the very least, it has to be a neutral site. If you can't do that, then don't have a tourney yet. End of story.

Myles Stephens saved the league a lot of embarrassment today.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3634
03-11-17 07:27 PM - Post#226396    

  • SRP Said:
Yale upsets Harvard, so the Tiger will be facing the deep blues tomorrow.


If Harvard took it easy last week to give Penn homecourt today, then karma surely bit them in the butt.
bradley
PhD Student
Posts 1842
03-11-17 07:34 PM - Post#226399    

If Harvard, Yale, Princeton or someone else goes 14-0 next year, will they go thru the same process as the Tigers this year?

Robin may put in a new feature next year that an undefeated team keeps playing until they lose to someone as the Ivies may simply not want to send their "best" team to the Big Dance -- simply brilliant.
bradley
PhD Student
Posts 1842
03-11-17 07:40 PM - Post#226401    

Coach Jones is a tough guy. Somehow, he brought Yale back from the abyss towards the end of the regular season and to win today is a testament to the team's mental toughness.

They will give the Tigers a battle and it will be another challenge to beat the same team three times. At least, it will be at a neutral court.
sparman
PhD Student
Posts 1339
sparman
03-11-17 08:26 PM - Post#226405    

That's a very, very sensible approach for 1-bid leagues, but I believe the NCAA requires the tournament champ to be the NCAA rep, and the NCAA controls the NIT entry rules, so it's not happening.
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 6997
Chip Bayers
03-11-17 08:27 PM - Post#226406    

It was a pretty bad afternoon overall for some key seniors: Weisz played poorly, Howard misses the FT with 12 seconds with a chance to ice the game on two makes, and Chambers throws the ball away on Harvard's final possession.

whitakk
Masters Student
Posts 523
03-11-17 10:33 PM - Post#226417    

Funny that Princeton's three biggest plays this year have all been offensive rebounds: http://www.nycbuckets.com/2017/03/1-princeton-7 2-4...
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-11-17 11:11 PM - Post#226423    

That is funny given program history.
Tiger81
Masters Student
Posts 409
Tiger81
03-12-17 06:49 AM - Post#226454    

I was at the Cathedral of College Basketball yesterday (anyone else sick of hearing that?) for both semis. Watching the Princeton-Penn game was agony!

Shots that the Tigers have been making all year just would not fall. Give Penn's defense credit because they were aggressive and it was a very physical and loosely-called game. Penn also made a lot of hard shots. I was there with my sister and her husband who live in Philly, and are not Ivy hoops-crazed like me, and she said at one point, "Penn's players seem to shoot much better than Princeton's.". I told her that had not usually been the case this year but it was yesterday (I then asked her to kindly refrain from any further positive observations about the Quakers).

The two senior stalwarts Cook and Weisz just could not get anything going and when they both missed very makeable shots at my end of the court in what seemed like their final possession, I was despondent. What a crappy way to end this special season, losing to an also-ran Penn team in their building! But then Penn's elder statesman Matt Howard missed that FT and Bell flashed up the court in what seemed like 3 long strides and Myles, who willed the team to victory, was Stephens-on-the-spot!

In OT, the game I thought I would see, with Princeton making shots and the defense thwarting Penn, finally played out. Princeton won despite Penn playing at a very high level and abysmal shooting from Cook, Weisz and Cannady, who was bottled up the entire game but canned his FTs when it was crunch time.

Yale looked really good in taking down Harvard. They also have many weapons and Bruner finally looked like the dominant player that he was advertised to be. He is a terror on the boards and made several athletic post moves against Harvard's bigs. Kevin W's write-up on the NYC Buckets site was superb as usual and perfectly described how Harvard gave the keys to Bryce Aiken down the stretch. Once the ball was in his hands you knew he would shoot, and while that worked a lot yesterday it also seemed to paralyze the rest of Harvard's offense.

To win the final Princeton will need to shake off today's offensive performance and try to channel the precision of their last game against Yale. It should be a good one.

Go Tigers!
bradley
PhD Student
Posts 1842
03-12-17 07:23 AM - Post#226455    

Your description reads like the perfect storm (shots rimming in or out etc) which many of us feared as to the results of one game in a post-season conference tournament. It is a description as to the inherent risk of giving an automatic bid to the team that wins 2 games in 24 hours in a post-season tourney.

For some time, there was a debate on the forum as to which team was the "best" team. It always seemed to be a matter of opinion vs. which team earned the right to go to the NCAA tournament. Although the tournament is very challenging to win based on the absurd format, the regular season winner defines the team that earned the right to go if not for the creation of the IL Tournament. I believe that Princeton has answered the secondary question as to which team is the "best" team and now, we will see if they receive the automatic bid. Sad but true.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-12-17 11:30 AM - Post#226476    

Great account , Tiger61. Now let's have a game with great Princeton defense throughout AND all the shooters dialed in.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6391
03-12-17 08:43 PM - Post#226634    

I may give the opponent to much credit, but as a Penn fan I thought Henderson did a great job. I thought the decision to play small in the second half was a game saver. I thought the timeout right before the media timeout when Penn got up 10 was about as good a use of a timeout as you'll ever see, as Penn never regained momentum after that. I also really liked that, when Penn had the ball at the end of regulation, Henderson actually turned away from the action for a moment to try to pump up the Princeton crowd under the opposite basket. I thought that showed an appreciation of the atmosphere.

Seemed to me that both teams played (and both coaches coached) their butts off. I came away proud not only of the Quakers but of all four teams. I think we're playing an increasingly high level of basketball in the league, and it was a fun showcase for that.

Go beat Notre Dame.
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2801
03-12-17 11:25 PM - Post#226679    

Thanks, SomeGuy. You're a Penn guy I could buy a beer
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4894
03-13-17 07:18 PM - Post#226846    

Interesting quote from the PAW account of the game:

"After Stephens hit a layup to trim the Princeton deficit to 33-32 to start the second half, Penn went on an 11-2 run to open a 44-34 lead with 15:46 left. It was the first time this season that Princeton trailed an Ivy opponent by double digits in the second half of a game. That’s when the Tigers showed their resolve.

“If I didn’t know them better, I would have questioned a little bit of that myself,” Henderson said. “We just said, ‘What are we going to do here?’ Their ability to have a conversation with each other — it wasn’t pretty, it wasn’t fun, we were calling each other names — but I’m so proud of them, they figured a way to get it done.”"

Oh to be a fly on the wall....



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