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Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-16-17 12:25 PM - Post#227218    

Both teams moving ball well. Shots dropping ND not P --7-3.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 12:34 PM - Post#227219    

Princeton takes the lead on a really nice Bell drive---ND doing what we see year after year against Ivy teams, i.e., playing looser defenses than we see Ivy League teams playing against each other.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 2753
03-16-17 12:35 PM - Post#227220    

Princeton can definitely win this. ND doesn't seem to have an athletic advantage.

Princeton is getting good looks even when missing. Weisz looks loose. Very good boxing out on the boards.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 12:40 PM - Post#227222    

...but they're missing a lot. Wide open most of the time, too.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 2753
03-16-17 12:40 PM - Post#227223    

ND's defense has gotten tighter. Less room to put up 3's. Still there's some room. Gotta make them.

Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-16-17 12:42 PM - Post#227225    

Missing wide open threes, but making good stops on D. Frustrating, as we are looking just as good but clanking too many threes. Can we keep up the great movement and d until our shots start to drop?
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 12:45 PM - Post#227227    

10-0 run. Less patience than I am used to from Princeton (as Weisz hits a 3 to end the streak).
Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 12:45 PM - Post#227228    

Good D except for the back cuts allowed.

TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 2753
03-16-17 12:45 PM - Post#227229    

More Weisz please.

Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 12:48 PM - Post#227230    

And less of the Cook they've gotten so far.

Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-16-17 12:49 PM - Post#227231    

ND is solid. No more room for poor three shooting if we are going to keep ND from opening up an unbeatable lead.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 2753
03-16-17 12:53 PM - Post#227232    

T69, how many minutes can Gladson provide? We need a big body out there. Weird to say about a Princeton team.



palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 12:55 PM - Post#227233    

But they're (sorry, I can't say "we" here) hanging in there. Well positioned for whenever those open 3s start falling.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 2753
03-16-17 12:57 PM - Post#227234    

Cook has to stop clanking 3s.

palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 12:58 PM - Post#227235    

You don't get more open than that. I think Princeton has had more wide open 3s already than in both Ivy playoff games.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 12:58 PM - Post#227236    

The early nerves have faded. The D has been so-so, weak defensive rebounding, missed assignments, and some problems getting used to how strong ND is with the ball in their hands.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 12:59 PM - Post#227237    

On the plus side, the Irish really can't defend the Princeton drivers without leaving easy trey attempts. Got to hit them.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 12:59 PM - Post#227238    

I think Bell needs to do that more often
Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-16-17 01:00 PM - Post#227239    

Have no idea TL. I really don't know sh!t -- just a big fan . But I like Miller for now.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 01:00 PM - Post#227240    

...and not that.

Within 6 despite missing makeable shot after makeable shot
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 2753
03-16-17 01:01 PM - Post#227241    

  • SRP Said:
On the plus side, the Irish really can't defend the Princeton drivers without leaving easy trey attempts. Got to hit them.


This. That's how to win the game. Plus keep ND off the boards.

SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 01:02 PM - Post#227242    

Brey is clearly worried about all the good outside looks PU is getting in his interview with LaForce, although "worried" is a relative thing for the always-upbeat leperchaun.
Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 01:03 PM - Post#227243    

Maybe a good idea in the second half to not let Vasturia get three straight offensive rebounds on the same possession while four Tigers stand around and gawk at him.

palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 01:03 PM - Post#227244    

5-17 from 3 won't do it.

But the shots are there.
Columbia Alum
Junior
Posts 201
03-16-17 01:03 PM - Post#227245    

P is outmatched inside, looks like a serious uphill battle to come back from the half. Need to drain those 3s to get back in it and box out interior rebounds on D. ND unfortunately is keep composure as expected and aggressive inside. No bright ideas here on how to come back :(, just looks like a really tough match up for P where their strengths are matched by ND.
Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 01:04 PM - Post#227246    

In other 5-12 action, UNCW up 23-11 on UVA midway through the first half.

palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 01:08 PM - Post#227247    

Everyone was on this "upset" because it's the classic example of favoring big conference teams over simply better teams from smaller conferences

Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-16-17 01:08 PM - Post#227248    

ND now having its way inside. We'll have to adjust at ht. ND will try to cut our open opportunities outside. We aren't out of it yet, but we need to steal some luck from the Irish.

GO TIGERS!

Nice to have some other IL followers -- at least for this game.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 01:09 PM - Post#227249    

I don't know what you are watching---ND cannot stay with Princeton off the dribble nor cover the 3. Princeton is struggling just in the paint. Princeton hits its open 3s and it will win the game.
Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 01:16 PM - Post#227250    

Princeton needs to use the quickness advantage it's showing on offense to beat the more muscular Notre Dame players to the rebound on D. Both teams currently playing to their strengths offensively in the paint (which in ND's case is literally strength).

SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 01:18 PM - Post#227251    

I don't see any schematic adjustments that need to be made. Stop losing guys on missed assignments, box out better, and don't be surprised that it takes more force on the ball to knock it out of these guys' hands than previous opponents. Keep running the offense and just knock down the open jumpers.

ND may go zone more in the second half, if Brey's interview is a clue. Obviously that will put even more of a premium on treys. It could be a Mike James dream half because La Force reported that Henderson wants to force ND to get 70% of its offense inside the arc on contested twos, while Brey appears to be preparing to dare the Tigers to shoot it from three. Like an analytics test.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 01:20 PM - Post#227252    

Also, Weisz really looked very player-of-the-year in that half. Cook was nervous, Cannady was a bit off, but Weisz was really operating out there on offense. Unfortunately, he got beat one-on-one on D a couple of times, but ND does that to a lot of guys.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 01:22 PM - Post#227253    

Farrell blowing by Cook on a drive is not a good sign.
Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 01:24 PM - Post#227254    


  • SRP Said:
Farrell blowing by Cook on a drive is not a good sign.



Yup. Although played him better on next possession.

Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 01:25 PM - Post#227255    

Now Farrell burns Bell.

SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 01:25 PM - Post#227256    

They're triple-teaming Weisz, which is wild.
Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 01:29 PM - Post#227257    

19-3 run to end the half gives UVA the 1-point lead on UNCW.

Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 01:32 PM - Post#227259    

Danger time for the Tigers.

SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 01:33 PM - Post#227260    

Can't commit TOs like that so many times in a row. Tigers keep appealing to the officials after the play and it isn't working. Better to focus on the next thing.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 01:33 PM - Post#227261    

Not looking good
Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-16-17 01:33 PM - Post#227262    

Looks bad 45-34, offense contained. No more open three opportunities.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 01:33 PM - Post#227263    

Which is why I don't bet---for if I did, I would have money on Wilmington
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 01:37 PM - Post#227264    

Tough day for Fleuger.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 01:38 PM - Post#227265    

The tide may be turning. The trey goes down, the charge is drawn, then Weisz actually gets the call on a reach-in
Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 01:44 PM - Post#227267    

Stephens shooting a wide-open air ball sums up the overall performance from three.

And then bricks a turnaround in the lane on next possession.

palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 01:44 PM - Post#227268    

2 Bricks in a Row
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 01:45 PM - Post#227269    

The backdoor bucket and foul shots for Stephens wrapped around two bad misses cuts the lead to 41-47.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 01:46 PM - Post#227270    

I must be on delay here on streaming---still shooting 2 shots for that 41
Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 01:47 PM - Post#227271    

Another chance to get the lead under 6 ...

Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 01:48 PM - Post#227272    

Canady with the 4-point play finally gets it to 5.


SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 01:48 PM - Post#227273    

Stephens missing a lot of mid-range jumpers, then Vasturia nails a trey. But Cannady fouled on a trey! A four-point play is always good.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 01:50 PM - Post#227274    

Princeton starting to play more physically, which is putting ND on the line but cutting down on the ORs and drives.
Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-16-17 01:53 PM - Post#227275    

Hanging in, but can't get closer than 2 possessions. ND won't fold.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 01:55 PM - Post#227276    

Great D on Coulson by Cook. Then the fast-break basket cuts it to 5. We are in it.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 01:57 PM - Post#227277    

Stephens D'd up Coulson nicely., too, then he blocks another drive. Tigers are starting to feel it. Beachum fouls Stephens on the drive. Myles takeover.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 01:58 PM - Post#227278    

Down three with under 6:00 to go, great D again for a stop, Gladson's trey just misses.

Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 01:58 PM - Post#227279    

Cook and Weisz pass up chances to tie with a three and let Glasson miss instead.

SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 01:59 PM - Post#227280    

That's fine, hitting the open man in rhythm. He's pretty high-percentage out there.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 02:01 PM - Post#227281    

Weisz abuses Farrell for the hoop.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 02:02 PM - Post#227282    

Princeton D is tightening up. Terrible block call on Bell.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 02:04 PM - Post#227283    

The announcers appear to be unable to distinguish one PU player from another, which is disconcerting.
Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-16-17 02:05 PM - Post#227284    

Hopefully, neither can ND
Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 02:06 PM - Post#227285    

Big shot from Cook given how he has played.

SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 02:06 PM - Post#227286    

ND tightening up. Cook nails a trey after a horrible short ND jumper.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 02:07 PM - Post#227287    

ugh--air ball
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 02:08 PM - Post#227288    

How high are you allowed to dribble?
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 02:08 PM - Post#227289    

Down three 54-57 with 1:56 left and the ball. I'd take that if offered before the game.
Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 02:09 PM - Post#227290    

Spanarkel thought Colson may have tipped the Bell air ball that could have given them the lead, but I though he just rushed it.

And then Colson overpowers Weisz in the post.

Followed by a shot clock violation. Awful sequence.

sparman
Masters Student
Posts 772
sparman
03-16-17 02:09 PM - Post#227291    

The number of PU airballs is astonishing.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 02:10 PM - Post#227292    

Bad possession out of the timeout for PU. Why is Coulson allowed to use his shoulder and elbow as a battering ram against a stationary defender?
Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 02:11 PM - Post#227293    

Don't understand the timeout when they've had success getting good shots before ND D is set.

palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 02:12 PM - Post#227294    

OK--chance to tie. Contrary to what they are saying, I think you have to play for a 3 unless the 2 comes immediately.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 02:12 PM - Post#227295    

Weisz has been putting on a passing show today. That zip down to Miller was beautiful.
Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-16-17 02:13 PM - Post#227296    

This will hurt a lot if we lose -- so many missed ops!
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 02:14 PM - Post#227297    

I'd look for a quick two and if not there, hold for the trey.
Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 02:15 PM - Post#227298    

Man, Weisz with a really terrible inbound pass but gets away with it.

palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 02:15 PM - Post#227299    

What kind of play was that???
Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 02:16 PM - Post#227300    

17-8 run for UVA after being tied at 40 with UNCW. Still 10 minutes left.

SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 02:17 PM - Post#227301    

That's Weisz's skill--he can skip that ball all game. Nice tip in by Miller and trap in the corner to force the last ND timeout.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 02:18 PM - Post#227302    

Great to get the 2--good fight, but man, another wide open 3 was missed.
sparman
Masters Student
Posts 772
sparman
03-16-17 02:19 PM - Post#227303    

Game long shooting woes kill them.
Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 02:20 PM - Post#227304    

Oh man.

Missing a squared-up 3 to end it only appropriate.

palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 02:20 PM - Post#227305    

AAARRRGGGGHHHH!
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 02:20 PM - Post#227306    

Great look for Cannady. Just a little long and to the right. I would have preferred maybe a drive to the hoop there, but that was good offense.
Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 02:22 PM - Post#227307    

Moral victory!

SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 02:22 PM - Post#227308    

Got to be frustrated that their three-point shooting was so far below norm tonight.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 02:22 PM - Post#227309    

Well, you guys represented the League well, and were the proper representative. Disappointing.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 02:23 PM - Post#227310    

Nauseating to hear Brey bragging about ND's defense. The Tigers were shredding them.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 02:24 PM - Post#227311    

To be fair, ND's FT shooting was also subpar, but the magnitude of the Tiger three-point issues was greater.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 2753
03-16-17 02:25 PM - Post#227312    

As easy as it is to blame the shooting, ND played well. It was a well played and well coached game.



gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 2524
03-16-17 02:25 PM - Post#227313    

Why did we go for the 3 when we're down by 2??? Deep down, I knew this was gonna happen all along -- a nailbiter loss.

It was a great matchup, no excuses. The guys played tough and never gave up. I figured the 3s would be cold, but this was just one 3 too frosty.

The difference in the game was our bad start. They didn't go inside enough to begin the game and ND jumped out to a 9-3 lead. Good adjustments from there on, but it wasn't enough.

No moral victory. Just disappointment. "One more 3," I guess.
Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-16-17 02:27 PM - Post#227314    

Hate to lose with so many missed opportunities -- but glad we kept it winnable to the end. Devin had a last chance to perform magic.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 2524
03-16-17 02:30 PM - Post#227315    

On the replay, I can see that Cannady had a good look, but there's no reason to go for 3 there on a cold night.

I wanted Bell to just take it coast to coast -- refs won't call a charge (or block) in that situation -- and have everyone else crash the boards for a potential putback.
1LotteryPick1969
PhD Student
Posts 1356
1LotteryPick1969
03-16-17 02:33 PM - Post#227317    

  • gokinsmen Said:
On the replay, I can see that Cannady had a good look, but there's no reason to go for 3 there on a cold night.

I wanted Bell to just take it coast to coast -- refs won't call a charge (or block) in that situation -- and have everyone else crash the boards for a potential putback.



Sounds good to me.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 02:35 PM - Post#227318    

He was WIDE open---he has to take that shot.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 02:44 PM - Post#227319    

No question the Tigers were shaky at the beginning, starting with Cook's missed layup off the Miller jump-ball play that clearly had been prearranged. It seemed like they took a while to get used to the big-game atmosphere and to adjust to the level of physicality from the Irish. But seriously, 8-31 from three, almost all wide open, is not what you would predict, and that pretty much decided the game.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 2524
03-16-17 02:48 PM - Post#227320    

  • palestra38 Said:
He was WIDE open---he has to take that shot.


He was definitely not wide open, not even close. But it was a good look for a sniper like Devin -- elbow 3 he can step into. Not some fall-away 30-footer.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 2524
03-16-17 02:51 PM - Post#227321    

  • SRP Said:
No question the Tigers were shaky at the beginning, starting with Cook's missed layup off the Miller jump-ball play that clearly had been prearranged.


That play pretty much encapsulates the early jitters. And in a 2pt loss (really 1pt), a single miscue like that can come back to haunt you.
umbrellaman
Senior
Posts 353
umbrellaman
03-16-17 02:53 PM - Post#227322    

I'm having an argument with non-Princeton fan whether that was a good shot to take down one with six seconds to go. I think it was a good shot. They doubled off the high screen to prevent Bell from going to the hoop, and Cannady shoots over 40% from 3 point range. Man, I thought it was going in too.

They were out of timeouts, there was a question about that.

umbrellaman
Senior
Posts 353
umbrellaman
03-16-17 02:55 PM - Post#227323    

Strange game - they were trailing the whole time - would have felt weird if they pull another one of those out. Princeton defense much better that I thought - I thought they would have to shoot much better just to be in the game.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 03:02 PM - Post#227324    

Guess it depends on your definition of wide open. The defender was rushing out at him but even though he took the pass, a step and shot, the ball was off well before anyone could get there. I call that wide open, I'll accept it as a "very good look."

http://thespun.com/independents/notre-da me/watch-n...
HARVARDDADGRAD
Masters Student
Posts 794
03-16-17 03:09 PM - Post#227328    

Well played Tigers.

Cannady wide open 3 essentially gave Princeton 42% chance to win the game (Cannady's 3 point %). Gotta be better odds than the risk of not scoring on a drive + risk of losing in OT.

Best shooter with chance to win it.
Of course, if Princeton shot to norm it would've been great, but relying on 3's is high variability. Live or die by them.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 2524
03-16-17 03:14 PM - Post#227333    

  • umbrellaman Said:
They doubled off the high screen to prevent Bell from going to the hoop, and Cannady shoots over 40% from 3 point range.



They shouldn't have run a pick-and-roll at all. Bell was 3-3 from 2 this game. Just rush it up the court and attack the rim. Don't give ND a chance to get set. Even a wild, ugly miss in a crowd can lead to a putback or shooting foul. And if you get off the shot quickly, you can also foul with 2-3s left.

I think the "problem" was that Bell was too unselfish and didn't want to take this huge shot for himself.
Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-16-17 03:15 PM - Post#227334    

No second guessing here. Great season. NCAA outcome not what we hoped. But, I'm OK with the way the team played and the decisions made. Shooting just not up to par. I keep thinking of the layup we missed off the opening tipoff.

Ion to next year....
bradley
Masters Student
Posts 467
03-16-17 03:16 PM - Post#227335    

You are absolutely correct that two ND defenders shutdown Bell's drive to the basket although Amir would have better starting at the top of the key vs. to the side. I have no issue at all with Cannady taking the 3 pt shot as he was sufficiently open. You take a 2pt or 3pt shot as long as the player has an open look.

Heartbreaking but tremendous effort by warriors including Weisz, Bell and others. Two strategic errors were allowing ND 32 to swoop down from the outside baseline in the 1st half with wide open dunks and not going with Princeton Cs' against Colson earlier but Brey made his fair share of coaching errors. Difference in the game was Tigers missing so many open 3pt shots in the 1st half --- ND played much better defense in 2nd half.

Congratulations to Mitch, seniors and all team members for showing the skill level of the IL as well as the physical and mental toughness. Even my IL "hater" friends were impressed.
joe nassau
Sophomore
Posts 114
03-16-17 03:16 PM - Post#227336    

They're no such thing as moral victories? you win or you lose? And PU lost. Best shooter took the shot and missed. End of...
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 2524
03-16-17 03:21 PM - Post#227337    

After Yale and Harvard won their 1st rd games, anything but a NCAA win makes for a disappointing season. If Mitch leaves, then so be it. We need someone who can get us over the hump. No more near-misses.

Luckily, Stephens, Cannady and Bell will all be back (and likely improved) and there are some promising freshman coming in.
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3235
03-16-17 03:29 PM - Post#227341    

The Tigers did a fine job of representing the Ivies.
Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-16-17 04:04 PM - Post#227353    

Near misses I agree are very disappointing. But, that is always how the season eventually ends for the entire NCAA field except one. Given the Ivies' different focus on sports from a few power conferences, we shall never see the day that an Ivy goes all the way to the finals IMHO. I have no problem with that. For the Ivies the prize is getting the chance to play in the tournament and possibly going a couple of rounds (and share in some of the loot that this tournament generates). We can only hold a coach to the standard to which the school supports him/her. In bball, thank god, the Ivies are unwilling to do what is apparently necessary theses days to be the National Champ.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-16-17 04:06 PM - Post#227354    

I do not believe anyone could say with a straight face that Princeton had a disappointing season. Only this game, which was very winnable, was disappointing.

And having the basketball gods on your side---second time in a week a team with a lead blows a crucial foul shot
JadwinGeorge
Sophomore
Posts 188
03-16-17 04:06 PM - Post#227355    

One of the silliest posts I have ever seen.
bradley
Masters Student
Posts 467
03-16-17 04:13 PM - Post#227356    

It is truly so absurd that a response is simply not warranted.

It is similar to someone advocating that sending a 16 seed against a 1 seed does not really make that big a difference vs. a 12 seed vs. a 5 seed.


sparman
Masters Student
Posts 772
sparman
03-16-17 04:18 PM - Post#227357    

Near misses disappoint. But it wasn't the coach who was airmailing 3pt shots, missing layups, travelling with no one around him, or losing the ball trying to dribble in traffic. IMO he put the team in a position to win and they could not execute sufficiently. That last shot for DC was well drawn up and he was open enough.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 9002
03-16-17 04:53 PM - Post#227362    

  • palestra38 Said:


And having the basketball gods on your side---second time in a week a team with a lead blows a crucial foul shot



You said it, but that's what I was thinking, too.
Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-16-17 04:59 PM - Post#227365    

Whoever represents the IL next year will, based on the last several years and the growing underclass talent, be taken very seriously.
sparman
Masters Student
Posts 772
sparman
03-16-17 05:03 PM - Post#227367    

Don't look now, but ND's next opponent might just be Bucknell.

edit: Well - maybe not.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 05:45 PM - Post#227379    

I feel bad for the team, who will be reliving this game for a long time. It was right there and they didn't get it done. Not Henderson's fault at all, unless you think there was some magic formula to get your players to hit open shots. If you have that formula, there are a lot of coaches who will pay you big bucks for it.

Henderson pushed the right buttons this season and has done an excellent job of recruiting and developing talent. I'm sure this game experience will help him the next time he gets to the NCAAs, though. It has to be a different experience coaching in this game on one's first trip.
bradley
Masters Student
Posts 467
03-16-17 06:03 PM - Post#227390    

I was sitting to a ND fan who was very upset, rightfully, that Coach Brey relied on one on one play in 2nd half vs sharing the ball. He thought Henderson out coached Brey. Might be right. Stephens and Cannady had tough shooting games -- sophomores??
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-16-17 06:07 PM - Post#227391    

Cannady's been streaky this year (maybe not by analytics, but he seemed to have on- versus off- games). Stephens seemed a little anxious in the first half but eventually eased into the game. He did take more mid-range jumpers than you'd want, but drew some fouls that way too.
Chip Bayers
Postdoc
Posts 3731
Chip Bayers
03-16-17 06:17 PM - Post#227395    

MTSU upholding 12-seed pride, as many predicted.

bradley
Masters Student
Posts 467
03-16-17 06:29 PM - Post#227397    

Not surprising. Getting a 12 seed is a good thing. Could have been two teams but coulda shoulda etc
mmp629
Junior
Posts 217
mmp629
03-16-17 07:28 PM - Post#227403    

I am heartbroken. It's going to take a long time to get over this one.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 9002
03-16-17 07:36 PM - Post#227407    

We can trade stories over our 12th seeded tourney teams that lost nail biters.
1LotteryPick1969
PhD Student
Posts 1356
1LotteryPick1969
03-16-17 07:52 PM - Post#227409    

Imagine how Devin Cannady feels.

I'm still annoyed about finishing second in the Pinewood Derby in 1958.
bradley
Masters Student
Posts 467
03-16-17 08:32 PM - Post#227413    

True but at least there are stories to share vs. no stories, i.e. 16th seed 0-125 and counting. Whomever breaks that streak will immediately go to Mt. Rushmore.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 2524
03-17-17 07:36 AM - Post#227432    

This was a disappointing performance. To call it otherwise would be disrespectful to our players and our league. They had it in them. It just didn't happen...as usual.
Tiger81
Freshman
Posts 76
Tiger81
03-17-17 07:59 AM - Post#227434    

It is frustrating to have missed the opportunity to steal a winnable game, but Princeton played the #25 ACC runners-up to the last possession and represented themselves and the Ivies well yesterday. Characterizing it as a "disappointing performance" and more egregiously as a "disappointing season" is overkill in my view. They played with great intensity, created good shots, but had the same shooting woes that plagued them for 3/4 of the Crapshoot at the Palestra. Except this time the competition was at a higher level and they had a smaller margin for error.

Thanks to the team and coaching staff for a very special and memorable season!
Streamers
PhD Student
Posts 1622
Streamers
03-17-17 08:25 AM - Post#227438    

Personally, I think it is remarkable that they put themselves in a position to win. They did a lot of things very well, particularly on defense. We all knew going in they needed to shoot well from outside to win. Going 8/31 from 3, many of them wide open, was why they lost. Cannady's just happened to be the one everyone will remember.
Columbia Alum
Junior
Posts 201
03-17-17 10:14 AM - Post#227450    

it was a great effort and a disappointing loss. But disappointing only because the tigers played so well and came so close. It was just a little bad luck in the end. Only thing they could have done differently was play more aggressively in the paint like they did in the second half, earlier. But that is a hindsight comment. Mitch's offensive and defensive system was otherwise the right one. ND was lucky to escape despite having the more talented team.
Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-17-17 10:32 AM - Post#227453    

Frustrating? Yes. Those damn shots didn't fall yesterday! Disappointing? No. That's a feeling allowed only to the players and coaches. As fans, we contributed nothing, but enjoyed a great season by a smart, hard-working bunch of Tigers who, even though more talented as a group than I've ever seen in all my years as a supporter, still over-achieved. I like what I see for the future

GO TIGERS!
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-17-17 11:49 AM - Post#227464    

If you like intangibles and resilience to go with your talent, this year's team was great to follow and support. Recovering from the loss of two all-Ivy performers to sweep a tough league, doing it with a drastic mid-season adjustment in style, then vindicating that record in a borderline-unfair conference tournament under immense pressure made for a special season. Getting wins at the NCAAs would have marked this team for greatness, but this was still a great season.
SecS3
Freshman
Posts 26
03-17-17 12:06 PM - Post#227465    

How are watching these games? Disappointing performance? Seriously? The end result was disappointing. There was nothing disappointing about the performance. Being able to take ND to the wire when we couldn't make a shot is nothing to be ashamed of. Hesitate to say this because I don't want it to look like I'm placing blame..... but man, Cook's two misses, off the opening tip and the one where he was all alone underneath, really came back to haunt us. Don't know why he didn't just dunk both.
bradley
Masters Student
Posts 467
03-17-17 01:43 PM - Post#227473    

Been searching for the right word to express my emotions but disappointment is not one of them. I thought that the Tigers had a legitimate opportunity to reach the round of 16. They had more than a boxer's chance based on experience, skill set, athleticism and coaching. For the Tigers and the IL, getting back to the sweet 16 is the next step on the progression chain. Yale was obviously close last year.

The performance of IL teams at the Big Dance is the most important step to further enhance the reputation of the league followed by non-conference performance. The IL Tournament is probably 3rd on the food chain. ND and ACC fans had a sinking feeling in their hearts with 6 seconds to go yesterday.

As to the opening tip, I thought that the call by Henderson to go aggressive was right on. I cannot believe that ND did not pick the play in their scouting as the Tigers used it several times successfully in non-league play. You are right that Cook should have completed a thunderous dunk to send a message.


Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3235
03-17-17 08:10 PM - Post#227511    

P'ton did a fine job on FT defense, holding a 79% team well under their average.
Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-17-17 08:54 PM - Post#227515    

Thanks. How does one coach FT defense, anyway, OB?
Kit
Senior
Posts 375
03-17-17 10:57 PM - Post#227521    

I've lost all interest in the tournament because of the loss to Notre Dame. We were sooo close. Better luck next year. Thank for the run, guys!

Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-17-17 11:59 PM - Post#227523    

I'm with you. I couldn't care less about the tournament after Princeton or fellow Ivy eliminated. Maybe, my interest would return if a compatible mid major is still around after this weekend. Otherwise, it is just a power conference back patting contest.
bradley
Masters Student
Posts 467
03-18-17 08:14 AM - Post#227529    

After a very tough IL Tournament other than the 2nd half against Yale, it was sweet to watch the 6'4" Spencer Weisz come up so big against ND. He hit some 3 pts plus taking smaller players to the rim.

Amir Bell fought very hard for key rebounds -- got 7. He probably will be a leader in his senior year but Spencer/Cook will be very difficult to replace. Henderson gave credit to Miller for standing up after the loss to St. Joe's to announce that no one will play harder on defense than the Tigers for the balance of the year -- he was right.
bradley
Masters Student
Posts 467
03-18-17 08:46 AM - Post#227530    

Does anyone know if you can watch a replay of the game -- CBS Sports??? It would be painful but interesting to see one more time.

I cannot find anywhere.
sparman
Masters Student
Posts 772
sparman
03-18-17 09:37 AM - Post#227533    

  • Kit Said:
I've lost all interest in the tournament because of the loss to Notre Dame.



I'm surprised the exciting adventures of the dyspeptic rodent Coach K and his lovable band led by charismatic Grayson Allen don't appeal to you.

  • bradley Said:
Does anyone know if you can watch a replay of the game -- CBS Sports??? It would be painful but interesting to see one more time. I cannot find anywhere.



Try here: Link

Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3235
03-18-17 11:01 AM - Post#227536    

It's a fine art.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-18-17 12:49 PM - Post#227547    

I'm following the tournament with great interest. No upsets of the 1-4 seeds in the round of 64, which hasn't happened since 2007. Only one five seed, Minnesota, downed by MTSU in what was anything but a surprise. The Blue Raiders are a very good basketball team and Minnesota was absurdly overseeded. We have had three of the six seeds go down to the 11s, but only one of those was a big gambler's upset, 7.5-point underdog USC coming back from a double-digit deficit for the 13th time this season to beat sleeper darling SMU. I loved that, partly because SMU just came off an academic scandal that had them suspended from last year's tournament, but partly because Andy Enfield is the chillest coach around and does a great job.

It's also been fun to watch angry Gregg Marshall of horribly underseeded Wichita State zing the committee at every turn while grinding past Dayton and prepping for his ridiculously difficult second-round game against Kentucky.
1LotteryPick1969
PhD Student
Posts 1356
1LotteryPick1969
03-18-17 04:12 PM - Post#227564    

Indeed. My only reason to watch now is to root against Duke/Puke
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3235
03-18-17 05:25 PM - Post#227570    

Oops, Nova just lost to the Badgers.
TheLine
Postdoc
Posts 2753
03-18-17 05:36 PM - Post#227573    

WVU beat ND relatively easily.

While ND was a winnable game for Princeton I don't think WVU would have been.


penn nation
Professor
Posts 9002
03-18-17 08:10 PM - Post#227581    

That makes me happy. Wisconsin got screwed in the seeding relative to Maryland, but made the most of it while Maryland faltered.

NU just overmatched against Gonzaga. Hopefully next year it can manage a 6 seed or thereabouts to avoid that kind of matchup if it advances to the second round.
Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-18-17 08:43 PM - Post#227584    

On Wisconsin! I have the same feelings about Villanova that 1LP1969 has about Puke ever since evil Jack Kraft. Villanova can never lose badly enough for me.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-18-17 11:10 PM - Post#227649    

Don't know why the hate for a classy Villanova program that's been fun to watch. But Wisconsin is pretty cool, too.

I thought that Bucknell did a slightly better job against WVU than ND, outscoring the Mountaineers in fast-break points 14-0 and their speedy guards regularly breaking through the defense. ND fell behind 10-0 and then basically stayed behind by that much the rest of the game, with small fluctuations up or down.
SecS3
Freshman
Posts 26
03-18-17 11:18 PM - Post#227653    

I too despise Puke. Not for the reasons that most people do though. My dislike for Villanova is due to Rollie Massimino(sp?). Slowly coming around. Wright is a decent guy.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-19-17 09:59 AM - Post#227666    

Still feel that Northwestern was overmatched against Gonzaga? Just a horrible horrible call away from a victory.
Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-19-17 10:14 AM - Post#227668    

Fair enough. My anti Villanova bias is deep, but I confess very dated-- all the way back to when we had to play them in their wretched field house. Their fans were thugs. It was dangerous to play there, and the coach seemed to encourage the ugliness. I am getting old!
penn nation
Professor
Posts 9002
03-19-17 10:15 AM - Post#227669    

They would still have trailed by 3 even if the call would have been made correctly. Pardon had 4 fouls and eventually fouled out anyways--he is NU's only big presence inside. They would have lost a war of attrition given their overall foul situation--all that Gonzaga needed to do was continue to pound it inside.

I haven't watched the entire game to make a comment on it as a whole.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 15435
03-19-17 10:39 AM - Post#227671    

Maybe the worst call of all time---hand that blocked a shot came up through the rim. Would have cut it to 3, instead, they assessed a T against the NW coach. Stopped the big run. No you can't guarantee that it would have won the game for Northwestern, but you cannot deny that it affected the outcome (and your point, of course, was that NW was overmatched).

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketba ll/story/...
penn nation
Professor
Posts 9002
03-19-17 10:45 AM - Post#227673    

What makes it ridiculous is when it's juxtaposed against all of the other times the refs deliberate ad nauseum at the video review screens.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-19-17 01:12 PM - Post#227690    

I would favor a bright line rule that any coach stepping on the floor during live play gets a technical foul, just as if he called a timeout he doesn't have. How hard is it to stay behind the fracking line and avoid interfering with play?
Tiger69
PhD Student
Posts 1947
03-19-17 02:56 PM - Post#227720    

Young coaches, just like players, have to learn to avoid freshmen mistakes (like, keeping your cool to keep a bad situation from getting worse).
sparman
Masters Student
Posts 772
sparman
03-19-17 04:23 PM - Post#227728    

When you've been trained at the Durham Basketball Academy it's not easy to understand what "rules" are.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 9002
03-19-17 08:15 PM - Post#227751    

I would like to offer up for nomination the no-call on the UNC basket with under a minute to play. It was clearly either a travel or a charge, if not both. Instead, neither was called and UNC pulls ahead by 3.

Some of these games have had very questionable officiating in key moments.
sparman
Masters Student
Posts 772
sparman
03-20-17 07:57 AM - Post#227772    

Yes, there were so many things that could have been called on that play, I think the refs got confused and could not decide what to do.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3046
03-20-17 03:55 PM - Post#227807    

Sure looked like charging to me.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 9002
03-20-17 06:50 PM - Post#227827    

More like 3 steps, collision/charge, then another 3 steps, all while holding onto the ball.

More egregious than NU. Visible to everyone in the arena. Incomprehensible that nothing was called, and definitely affected the outcome in a vital way during the final minute of play.



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