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Username Post: McLaughlin too stubborn to succeed
EasyGreen1
Freshman
Posts 21
12-06-17 01:14 AM - Post#239187    

Clearly, McLaughlin has not been able to put effective offensive and defensive schemes in place. Here we are, game 6, against Sacred Heart, and the best we can muster is 1 on 1 hero ball, end of shot clock 3s, and weak dispassionate defense.

Why is Chris Knight not starting and playing a lion's share of minutes? Anyone who has seen him play knows that he should. Why are Letoa and Foye playing key minutes, at key points in games, without discernible production(are the coaches even watching these games or tracking stats/efficiency)? Ian Sistare and Cam Smith are more aggressive, competitive, and would be much more productive on both ends of the floor. They have the ability to challenge defenses, open the floor for shooters, get to the rim and the FT line (the upgrade on defense would be immediate). Barry, Wright, Johnson are playing their hearts out. They deserve better. Perhaps giving other experienced players an opportunity to play more, if the current rotation continues to fail, would help. YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!
SomeDartmouthStudent
Freshman
Posts 62
12-06-17 01:52 AM - Post#239189    

I didn't make it to the SH game, but that was just a poorly coached game all around. I'm not sure what we are doing. The biggest no brainer of all time is to give Chris Knight more minutes.
SomeDartmouthStudent
Freshman
Posts 62
12-06-17 01:54 AM - Post#239191    

Also not to be the bearer of bad Kenpom news, but we are certainly going to drop a lot of spots.
hoops123
Freshman
Posts 94
12-06-17 02:24 AM - Post#239192    

Mclaughlin has put the "laugh" back in Dartmouth basketball. I could only laugh as our players watched SH dribble around at the end of the game for 15 seconds before we fouled them. Pathetically poor coaching. The game was close! We could have won...Has Mclaughlin ever coached before??? I've seen JV high school coaches that have their team foul immediately on the in-bounded ball. To Green's point, this coach has no idea what he's doing out there. Love Mclaughlin hiding behind his borrowed slogan "work hard, work smart, work together". Our team is doing none of the above. If you put a group of 10th graders out on the court that worked hard, worked smart, and worked together, would they beat SH? According to Mclaughlin, that's all you need to do. Talent be damned. Has anyone looked at our box scores for this season and specifically the last two games?? Even I won't write about them because they are so bad. Can anyone tell me why Knight doesn't start and Cam doesn't play??? Honestly, I think Boudreaux got out while the gettin was good. And Mclaughlin owns this sinking program which is officially going backwards...Who's got next Harry??
EasyGreen1
Freshman
Posts 21
12-06-17 03:48 AM - Post#239197    

McLaughlin seems to have surrounded himself with weak assistants who won't speak truth in support of the players or the program. I've heard that he has totally shut out the voices of alums, ex-players, etc and is quite content in his echo chamber of incompetence.
Cooper
Sophomore
Posts 140
12-06-17 11:51 AM - Post#239213    

If that's the case it is curious that McLaughlin has spearheaded a celebration of former coach Dave Faucher next month that will bring a good number of Faucher's players back for a weekend.
hoops123
Freshman
Posts 94
12-07-17 03:43 AM - Post#239452    

I'm sure it'll be a good time catching up with former teammates but...after all the reminiscing is over, what is going to be said in low whispers about Mclaughlin's abysmal coaching and the poor performance of this year's team? Let me guess what Mclaughlin says: "we're getting better as a team", or "you can't change a program overnight", or "if Boudreaux hadn't left....", or, God forbid, "our kids are working harder, and smarter, and more together than ever". I don't think you'll hear "I am having a very difficult time coaching" or "I have no idea how to attack a 1-3-1 zone", or "should I foul the opposing player on the inbound play with 1:45 left and down by 8, or should I have my team wait 15 seconds, try to steal, and therefore effectively do the other teams job of running out the clock?", or perhaps "using Evan Boudreaux as recruiting bait in my first recruiting class has effectively produced 1 out of 5 recruits that should start during their careers." (cue the Chris Knight should start chants) The yea, rah rah, "Dartmouth basketball is great" stuff is fine for a little while, but the giant elephant in the room that weekend is that the Dartmouth Men's Basketball program flew south last winter and isn't expected back to nest this season, next season, or any season soon...
SomeGuy
Postdoc
Posts 4578
12-08-17 11:26 PM - Post#239728    

It's not clear that the program actually is going backwards. Last year, you guys were 305 in kenpom. This year, you are up to 277. Too early to be sure, but there is evidence this is actually better.




SomeDartmouthStudent
Freshman
Posts 62
12-11-17 12:40 AM - Post#239948    

You must be missing out on these games. Barely beating Maine is not a good look. I hope we are better, but not passing the eye test on my end yet.
SomeGuy
Postdoc
Posts 4578
12-11-17 07:13 AM - Post#239950    

Not a good look, certainly, and still bottom 75 nationally. Just marginally better than last year, which isn't saying much.
Cooper
Sophomore
Posts 140
12-11-17 11:41 AM - Post#239960    

"Just marginally better than last year, which isn't saying much. "

I'll be the devil's advocate here and say it: With Evan Boudreaux leaving the team and having lost Guilien Smith for the last four games, "marginally better" is an accomplishment.
Go Green
Senior
Posts 385
12-11-17 01:53 PM - Post#239963    

You do remember that we lost to Maine last season?

And that we didn't get our first victory until December 18?

I'd rather win ugly than lose pretty.
EasyGreen1
Freshman
Posts 21
12-11-17 02:04 PM - Post#239965    

Unfortunately, if the coach refuses to rework his player rotation based on defense, effort, and productivity we'll get our fill of ugly losses. Having watched all the Ivy teams play multiple times, I don't see the Dartmouth squad (as the coach is currently utilizing them) beating any of them even once.
Go Green
Senior
Posts 385
12-11-17 02:11 PM - Post#239967    


Personally, I think you're correct.

My point (perhaps poorly articulated) is that criticizing McLaughlin now is misguided, given that the team is outperforming 2016-17 thus far. The team could very well look like crap in person this year. But they look objectively better in the W-L column than they did last season.

If we go 0-14 in league, then by all means--let McLaughlin have it.
EasyGreen1
Freshman
Posts 21
12-11-17 02:22 PM - Post#239968    

And my point is, there is no need to go 0-14 in Ivy play or lose the remaining nonconference games (except Notre Dame and BC). This team has enough talent to win but too much focus is placed on who can shoot threes and almost no focus on individual or team defense. Our guards are really weak against quick, penetrating guards which causing our big men and Miles to get into early foul trouble. A defensive stopper at PG (10-15 minutes per game) would turn this team around. Cormier used Malik Gill and Cam Smith effectively in that role. Cam's still there (though McLaughlin seems hardly aware).
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts 3182
12-11-17 03:07 PM - Post#239973    

  • Go Green Said:

My point (perhaps poorly articulated) is that criticizing McLaughlin now is misguided, given that the team is outperforming 2016-17 thus far. The team could very well look like crap in person this year. But they look objectively better in the W-L column than they did last season.




Agreed-- it's too early to castigate the coach. Maybe he really is a lousy coach, maybe not. There's no way to know yet, as, to be fair, he's working under extremely difficult circumstances. Give the guy a bit of time to find his way and start creating a basis for long term success before you start calling for his head.
SomeGuy
Postdoc
Posts 4578
12-11-17 09:42 PM - Post#240001    

I'm of the opinion that Dartmouth made a big mistake firing Cormier. I also think that McLaughlin's failure to bring in assistants with D1 coaching experience was a further mistake (though I guess it might not be the coach's failure if nobody with experience wanted in).

That said, tossing the guy out after a little over a year seems extreme. Got to give him a chance. If this wasn't what you wanted, you shouldn't have gone the inexperienced route.
SomeDartmouthStudent
Freshman
Posts 62
12-12-17 12:22 AM - Post#240010    

Look- at this point I would hope all the Dartmouth fans want him to succeed. Having been around the program in a near day to day manner, I don't think we are on track. I was around for two years of Cormier and while I certainly didnt like him, he was a better coach.

McLaughlin simply doesn't seem to know what hes doing. I hope he turns it around, but the chips are certainly stacked against him.

Speaking from an enrolled student perspective, I think there were more expectations surrounding the program because we had players like Boudreaux and Wright who showed the potential to be special, yet we never did anything with them. Any momentum we could have had is pretty much gone.
hoops123
Freshman
Posts 94
12-12-17 02:35 AM - Post#240015    

Basketball is not rocket science. Mclaughlin has supposedly "played the game" (I should look up his stats....) and was a head D2 coach and a D1 asst. I watched our team make team mistakes (not attacking a zone, not playing def with our hands up, poor/no switching on defense, not playing def on the three pt line when a team is killing us, not boxing out, no idea that we have to foul when we are down inside of 2 mins, etc,etc,etc). This is bad coaching. Plain and simple. I too have friends involved in the program. The coach is soft and non-confrontational, does not hold players to high standards, and he is not accountable and neither are his players. And as you well know, there are lots of other issues on this team. So with these obvious flaws known to outside viewers and to those that know the program on the inside, whats next? An odd win against bad opponents, a win against 1 or 2 Ivy's that have a bad day, and an awful record at year end. Am I optimistic? No. I played and coached this game. We can't even handle basic stuff. ND literally could beat us by 50....Am I hopeful that things will turn around? Yes, but I think that's unrealistic given the current state of the program. I too hear other players will leave. Including players recruited by Mclaughlin. When does the new coach "free pass" expire? He had Boudreaux and he let him go (oh and he's going to Xavier, that piddly little 4563 student Jesuit University in Cincinnati that, OH WOW, went to 9 NCAA tourneys in the last 10 years :-(). He has shown he can't handle basic coaching tasks. My question: When does the Athletic Council and Phil Hanlon hold AD Harry Sheehy to the same "standards" that he supposedly holds other coaches to?? He's had a couple of coaching hits, but a lot of misses as well. My guess: no one in the administration particularly cares about men's basketball and whether it is good or not. By the looks of our empty stands at game time, it certainly is not a revenue producing program. Sheehy did a favor for Peter Roby(D79), the AD at Northeastern where Mclaughlin was an asst coach, who asked (or told) him to hire Mclaughlin, and now we're stuck with Mclaughlin. PS Roby retiring next year. Thanks for dumping the coach on us Peter! Since you played, we thought you would do us a favor.... Sheehy had several coaches that were much better than Mclaughlin, with major D1 experience, that he passed on. Sheehy's D3 AD antics have placed Dartmouth players and fans in semi-permanent purgatory where no one actually cares about Dartmouth Mens Basketball (except for the few members of this board and a sprinkling of fans/ex-players from around the country). And of course, for those who think we need to give coach Mac "more time", how much time is that? And, do bad coaches get the same amount of "time" to make their programs good? Do you really give a known bad coach the same amount of time as a known good coach to improve your program? I say NO WAY... ugh...Enough self flagellation for one night...
SomeGuy
Postdoc
Posts 4578
12-12-17 07:39 AM - Post#240017    

I'm of the opinion that once you hire a coach who obviously will need to grow into the job, you need to let him grow into the job. If they can keep improving, I would stick to it. Admittedly I prefer to stick to a plan. I think a lot of teams across sports shoot themselves in the foot by cycling through coaches too often.
GoBigGreenBasketball
Masters Student
Posts 458
12-16-17 04:40 AM - Post#240302    

I heard a quote by Jeff Van Gundy. "You can't miss on your own players." You see them everyday in practice. As a coach you have to know your personnel inside and out, and know what they bring to the game.
"...no excuses - only results!”

weinhauers_ghost
PhD Student
Posts 1008
12-17-17 01:39 AM - Post#240379    

You guys need only look at Penn's recent history, if you want a cautionary tale.

Two bad coaching hires can leave your program wandering around in the weeds for a decade. Your administration should move, and do it soon.
flinder
Freshman
Posts 10
12-17-17 06:58 PM - Post#240419    

TWO bad coaching hires? The last Dartmouth coach to finish with a winning record during his tenure there was Ozzie Cowles—who coached from 1937-1946! The team hasn't won the Ivy League title since the 1959-60 season. Cormier brought them closer to that pinnacle than any other coach in recent memory, though that was during his first stint. Faucher was beloved by his players, but he only had three winning seasons in 13, and none in his final five. Terry Dunn was probably the only DISASTER here. What we could really use is someone like a Buddy Teevens: an alum who's earned his coaching stripes in major programs and wants to come back and rebuild his alma mater. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any players from the Dartmouth program who followed that plan. Woe is us until, like, a Brad Stevens emerges to save us from obscurity.
GIQUAKER
Junior
Posts 208
12-17-17 08:34 PM - Post#240420    

Just some thoughts after reading the posts:
1) I think Flinder brings up great points. Yes Dartmouth can be a difficult place to recruit to for many young kids and expectations should be tempered. We're not winning the IVY's this year.
2) Coach M is a very hard working dedicated coach and I think that he will be a successful coach. He should not be compared to the Penn coach from 10 years ago.
3) Coach Cormier was a great X and O's coach but things change!
Go Big Green!
bradley
Masters Student
Posts 779
12-19-17 09:53 PM - Post#240609    

Dartmouth played an outstanding game against ND tonight. They showed a lot of heart plus offensive skill. Could not handle Bonzie Colson but that is not unusual.

Barry can play -- 11 assists. Coach looked like he did a great job of keeping the players focused and no quit.
GIQUAKER
Junior
Posts 208
12-19-17 10:08 PM - Post#240615    

Yes, they shot well and played great defense, forcing some good turnovers. Emery looked like he did last year. I thought they were going to get tired at the end like the UIC game but they held strong. I think Coach M substituted more in this game. I hope we shoot 3's like this for the rest of the season. Too bad I have to miss the Bryant game.
Go Big Green!
weinhauers_ghost
PhD Student
Posts 1008
12-20-17 02:17 AM - Post#240689    

I thought Dartmouth looked pretty good for most of the game. They shot well, with the exception of that stretch early in the second half where ND dropped the hammer on them. Defense was better than I expected. Good positioning, and alertness that led to a bunch of deflections leading to turnovers.

Colson and the big Lithuanian kid punished the Green in the paint.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3487
12-20-17 04:59 AM - Post#240715    

From reading comments over here I was expecting defensive ineptitude, but Dartmouth looked very ept in the first half. Quick hands, good positioning, not a lot of easy stuff for ND. And some good outside shooting and ball movement. If they can bottle that they will score some upsets in the IL.
GIQUAKER
Junior
Posts 208
12-20-17 06:32 AM - Post#240718    

"Colson and the big Lithuanian kid punished the Green in the paint."

You've been watching the IVYs long enough to know the difference between athlete students and real student athletes. I think the Big Green (with 4 freshmen!)n did extremely well against a professional team on their home court. If Notre Dame and other schools were brave enough to return the trip to IVY schools, games like last night might have been different.
Go Big Green!
GIQUAKER
Junior
Posts 208
12-20-17 06:50 AM - Post#240719    

"From reading comments over here I was expecting defensive ineptitude, but Dartmouth looked very ept in the first half. "

Perhaps you were reading the wrong comments or perhaps comments written based on early observations of a young team. I think things will look progress for Dartmouth in the long run.
EasyGreen1
Freshman
Posts 21
12-20-17 12:45 PM - Post#240765    

Last night game against ND was exciting and fun to watch (for a change), but it was not a showcase of defensive skill for either team. 97-87 in a college game with both teams shooting over 50 percent FG and over 40 percent from 3. The Big Green is a talented team and should do well in the Ivy. My hope is that we make adjustments in guard play defensively to deal with the quick/athletic guards we'll continue to face. This will limit the early foul trouble on our bigs and the Ws will follow.
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts 3421
12-20-17 08:21 PM - Post#240855    

So is the Coach now less stubborn?
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 3487
12-20-17 10:05 PM - Post#240861    

I only saw the first half, but Dartmouth helped ND commit a ton of turnovers. The Irish were a little careless, but the swarming Green defenders contributed a lot to the empty possessions.
EasyGreen1
Freshman
Posts 21
12-20-17 10:06 PM - Post#240862    

Hoping he gets it worked out and have the team hitting on all cylinders no later than January 26th Old Bear!
Go Green
Senior
Posts 385
12-21-17 08:28 AM - Post#240885    


Short version of EasyGreen's analysis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_f8l2RRKko


Corms
Freshman
Posts 6
12-21-17 01:09 PM - Post#240949    

Dartmouth looked great vs. ND. They cut it to just 3 late in the second half. Knight, Barry, Emery, Rai, are all very promising players for the future and I'm sure there are others, too. As an old PG myself, I have particularly enjoyed watching Barry's game.

As a Miles Wright fan, I was happy to see him shine on the big stage. Back when my dad and bro coached Miles, I used to tell them to draw up some easy buckets for him early so that he would get it going. Because once he's on a streak with some momentum, he is at his best. I haven't seen a lot of the action this year but I also noticed Taylor Johnson playing a huge role. It is always nice to see seniors do well.

I was wondering about Sistare and Carter. I thought they would be more involved as they each bring a lot to the table, which isn't to say there isn't good, deserving talent playing in their place.

From the ND game I was especially impressed by the good defense we played and by the body language of the players on the bench. Everyone was having fun and cheering each other on. Lots of good camaraderie. I have long heard that the love for Dartmouth basketball is strong in and around Chicago. Seems like the local DMB community's support rubbed off on the team nicely!

Go Big Green!



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