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| Username | Post: FT shooting |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
12-07-17 05:46 PM - Post#239562
In our 10 DI games, Penn's FT% currently sits at 60.1%--12.5 makes per game. This ranks 344th out of 351 DI schools. Ivy leader: Brown at 78.4% (17th)--21.0 makes per game. |
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Old Bear Postdoc Posts 3994 |
12-07-17 08:19 PM - Post#239583
College age may be a little late to try to make material changes in FT shooting fundamentals and results. There are more notable failures than successes. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
12-07-17 08:58 PM - Post#239587
True, but DNH is a recent success story. It's hard to recall a Penn team, though, that has had so many players who have fallen short in this area. |
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1171 |
12-08-17 10:11 AM - Post#239609
True, but DNH is a recent success story. Fran Dougherty is another. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/fran-... As is Ugonna Onyekwe. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/ugonn... Seems to me that free throw shooting IS something that can be improved upon. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3052 |
12-08-17 10:35 AM - Post#239612
FWIW, I went looking at Brown's FT% during and just before the Mike Martin Era started in 2012-2013 2017-2018: 78% 2016-2017: 76% 2015-2016: 70% 2014-2015: 69% 2013-2014: 67% 2012-2013: 63% 2011-2012: 63% I haven't looked closely enough at those numbers to know if the players in his earlier years improved over time due to the staff's teaching and/or the recruited athletes arrived with stronger FT skills. Maybe someone from the Brown board knows more about how they improved drastically over the last few years. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
12-08-17 11:01 AM - Post#239616
Depends on the situation, but it can take as little as having one really good FT shooter who gets to the line a lot. With Brown, it appears Spieth drove this a lot, as did Blackmon. Certainly Rosen did with Penn--the rest of the team wasn't all that impressive but his stats were so good that the team as a whole didn't look so bad. |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3775 |
12-08-17 11:25 AM - Post#239621
My feeling is that you can get by with some lousy free throw shooters on your team, as long as your PG isn't one of them. And maybe your SG too. If neither of those guys is an excellent FT shooter, you're virtually guaranteed to lose a bunch of close games at the line. So, put another way, if there were ONE thing that I could magically change about Darnell Forman right now, it would be his FT shooting. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3585 |
12-08-17 11:35 AM - Post#239623
That said, Foreman is in the top 15 in the league in FT%. It is magnified when you don't make front end of 1 and 1's at the end of games. So I would prefer Darnell magically improves his FT shooting in those situations! Even making the front end of a 1 and 1 at the end of a game and missing the second one is an improvement I would take. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
12-08-17 11:42 AM - Post#239625
That said, Foreman is in the top 15 in the league in FT%. Considering he is shooting 66.6% in his 10 DI games, I highly doubt he's even in the Top 75. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
12-08-17 11:46 AM - Post#239626
It's a testament to the rest of his game that despite having horrible FG%, 3 pt FG% and FT% he is a starting guard. He doesn't turn the ball over, he has the ability at times to finish around the basket, he is a good rebounding guard and--when avoiding the tendency to launch shots--is a decent floor general. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
12-08-17 12:23 PM - Post#239630
That said, Foreman is in the top 15 in the league in FT%. Considering he is shooting 66.6% in his 10 DI games, I highly doubt he's even in the Top 75. I wonder if D-I teams are better at defending FTs than D-III teams. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32809 |
12-08-17 12:24 PM - Post#239631
I think we should choose to have Caleb shoot 3s, instead of having a bunch of our guys shooting FTs |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3585 |
12-08-17 12:38 PM - Post#239633
FREE THROW PCT 1. Hunsaker, Zach-BRWN 2. Cannady, Devin-PRIN 3. Gettings, Stone-COR 4. Anderson, Brandon-BRWN 5. Morgan, Matt-COR 6. Cambridge, Desmond-BRWN 7. Oni, Miye-YALE 8. Aiken, Bryce-HARV 9. SMITH, Mike-COL 10. Betley, Ryan-PENN 11. Knight, Chris-DART 12. HICKMAN, Nate-COL 13. Towns, Seth-HARV 14. Bell, Amir-PRIN SR 15. Foreman, Darnell-PENN |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
12-08-17 12:39 PM - Post#239634
PN, minor thing but while I want to strip out the non-D1 stats as much as the next guy, I'm not sure you need to do with free throw rate. Unless the pressure is just SO much less, it's a free throw stripe. I feel those data points are just as relevant as what he shot against Howard or whatever. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3585 |
12-08-17 12:40 PM - Post#239635
Darnell leads the league in Assist/TO ratio as well at 2.1. Mike Smith is the only other player over 2.0 in the league. I think that is simply a testament to the fact that Darnell doesn't turn the ball over much, which is obviously a good thing. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3585 |
12-08-17 12:41 PM - Post#239636
I think we should choose to have Caleb shoot 3s, instead of having a bunch of our guys shooting FTs This is a brilliant strategy! Similar % and worth more points. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
12-08-17 12:47 PM - Post#239638
PN, minor thing but while I want to strip out the non-D1 stats as much as the next guy, I'm not sure you need to do with free throw rate. Unless the pressure is just SO much less, it's a free throw stripe. I feel those data points are just as relevant as what he shot against Howard or whatever. All things being equal, it's probably easier to shoot FTs playing against PS--Brandwyne than against Nova. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
12-08-17 12:51 PM - Post#239639
Because the Nova FTs are with the game on the line? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32809 |
12-08-17 12:52 PM - Post#239640
No, but they were shaking that whole building. Atmosphere this year in the Palestra? Uh, less active |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
12-08-17 12:52 PM - Post#239641
FREE THROW PCT 1. Hunsaker, Zach-BRWN 2. Cannady, Devin-PRIN 3. Gettings, Stone-COR 4. Anderson, Brandon-BRWN 5. Morgan, Matt-COR 6. Cambridge, Desmond-BRWN 7. Oni, Miye-YALE 8. Aiken, Bryce-HARV 9. SMITH, Mike-COL 10. Betley, Ryan-PENN 11. Knight, Chris-DART 12. HICKMAN, Nate-COL 13. Towns, Seth-HARV 14. Bell, Amir-PRIN SR 15. Foreman, Darnell-PENN I am guessing that the total denominator of qualified shooters is sufficiently small in this chart...don't know what the minimum # of FTs per game is for what you've posted here. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
12-08-17 02:56 PM - Post#239661
LOL, Darnell was 3-4 vs. Nova. If you want to pick on him then how about 3 pt shooting? Hasn't hit any since Towson. Looks tight as a drum. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3585 |
12-08-17 03:17 PM - Post#239665
FREE THROW PCT 1. Hunsaker, Zach-BRWN 2. Cannady, Devin-PRIN 3. Gettings, Stone-COR 4. Anderson, Brandon-BRWN 5. Morgan, Matt-COR 6. Cambridge, Desmond-BRWN 7. Oni, Miye-YALE 8. Aiken, Bryce-HARV 9. SMITH, Mike-COL 10. Betley, Ryan-PENN 11. Knight, Chris-DART 12. HICKMAN, Nate-COL 13. Towns, Seth-HARV 14. Bell, Amir-PRIN SR 15. Foreman, Darnell-PENN I am guessing that the total denominator of qualified shooters is sufficiently small in this chart...don't know what the minimum # of FTs per game is for what you've posted here. Could be that better shooters don't have enough to register, though the smallest number of attempts on the list is 18 and the most is 90. Anderson from Brown has 90, Aiken 70, Mike Smith 42 and Darnell 41. 3 on this list have 18-22 attempts. Here is the link to Ivy Stats page: http://static.ivyleague.com/custompages/sports/mb k... |
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Old Bear Postdoc Posts 3994 |
12-08-17 03:41 PM - Post#239677
FWIW, I went looking at Brown's FT% during and just before the Mike Martin Era started in 2012-2013 2017-2018: 78% 2016-2017: 76% 2015-2016: 70% 2014-2015: 69% 2013-2014: 67% 2012-2013: 63% 2011-2012: 63% I haven't looked closely enough at those numbers to know if the players in his earlier years improved over time due to the staff's teaching and/or the recruited athletes arrived with stronger FT skills. Maybe someone from the Brown board knows more about how they improved drastically over the last few years. I think its a matter of who gets the shots. If you have a poor FT shooter who gets fouled a lot, that's a problem. This year Brown has three really good FT shooters, Hunsacker, Anderson and Cambridge (Spieth last year) who have the ball a lot and get fouled. A few players do improve over college experience, most don't. I know the MM emphasizes FT shooting in practice, butI doubt that Brown practices more or better than other teams. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
12-08-17 04:20 PM - Post#239690
The basic point being that Foreman isn't even Top 5 on his own team, well, actually he is, but that's damning praise for sure which has one of the worst DI FT%s. So if you can concoct a stat that somehow shows him to be Top 15 Ivy....that stat is pretty meaningless IMHO. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32809 |
12-08-17 04:31 PM - Post#239696
Forget FTs...that 3 point shot is key. Foreman is only 13% so far---4 for 29. Beyond awful. We'e shooting better from halfcourt for the $5000 bucks at halftime. But our defense is better this year. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
12-08-17 04:35 PM - Post#239698
But PN, the stat is a FT% leaderboard for the league. What else would you like to use? Are we so used to crapping on players that we just crap on them regardless? Or is this a #FakeNews thing I'm not getting and the joke's on me? |
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yoyo Senior Posts 365 |
12-08-17 04:46 PM - Post#239701
Darnell leads the league in Assist/TO ratio as well at 2.1. Mike Smith is the only other player over 2.0 in the league. I think that is simply a testament to the fact that Darnell doesn't turn the ball over much, which is obviously a good thing. [/quote unless you start counting air balls from 5' a turnover |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3585 |
12-08-17 05:26 PM - Post#239705
The basic point being that Foreman isn't even Top 5 on his own team, well, actually he is, but that's damning praise for sure which has one of the worst DI FT%s. So if you can concoct a stat that somehow shows him to be Top 15 Ivy....that stat is pretty meaningless IMHO. As stated, this isn't my stat, it's not concocted, it's from the Ivy League stat board. I didn't put his name on there. If it were up to me I would have only listed the top 14. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3585 |
12-08-17 05:28 PM - Post#239706
Darnell leads the league in Assist/TO ratio as well at 2.1. Mike Smith is the only other player over 2.0 in the league. I think that is simply a testament to the fact that Darnell doesn't turn the ball over much, which is obviously a good thing. [/quote unless you start counting air balls from 5' a turnover Rabbit hole. I get your point but we count blocked shots as shots and airballs as shots and contested 3's that result in layups at the other end as shots....all of these function as turnovers no? |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
12-08-17 05:35 PM - Post#239709
Plus it's double counting - a missed shot shows up in FG% as it should. But I think Foreman hasn't been bad at FG% close to the rim (I can't find Mike's link to the site that has this info). He has been dreadful shooting at distance. |
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Cvonvorys Postdoc Posts 4473 
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12-08-17 06:05 PM - Post#239714
And that has been my criticism for Darnell... He takes too many low percentage shots. Penn as a team should strive to take higher percentage shots on every possession. A Darnell three with 20 seconds left on the shot clock is probably not the best use of that possession. A Ryan three, a Caleb three, a Sam three, a Jackson three, heck maybe even a Jake three with 20 seconds left on the shot clock maybe... We don't lose another game this year if Darnell attempts fewer than 10 field goals in a game (according to year-long trends). |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
12-08-17 06:16 PM - Post#239715
Darnell is 63% at the rim. Woods is 48%. Only 12% of Darnell's attempts at the rim are assisted while 46% of Woods' are. 40% of Darnell's shots are at the rim. 33% of Woods' are. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32809 |
12-08-17 06:31 PM - Post#239719
So I guess Woods is more effective with 2 point jumpers given that he shoots virtually the same percentage as Foreman from 2 points....and a lofty .32 from 3, which is double Foreman's rate. But they both are playing great defense and the biggest difference I see this year is that Penn is not giving up nearly the number of wide open 3s as they did in the past, oh 5 years. They are contesting better at the perimeter and at the hoop with the twin towers, meaning that they are playing better defense. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
12-08-17 06:40 PM - Post#239720
Woods and Foreman battle real well to get over the picks. They'll switch when they can't. Woods in particular has played nice D when mismatched against a taller opponent. Woods has been shooting better from distance and making nice decisions. When he shoots early in the clock it's typically right on the arc and wide open, otherwise he passes or drives. |
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