Back to Post
| Username | Post: To Beat Princeton | |
|---|---|---|
|
pennsive Junior Posts 200 |
12-30-17 10:13 PM - Post#241648
There is, of course, the obvious: shoot our threes well, get out on their three point shooters, contain Bell, Stephens, and Cannady, help on defense, etc. What we really need also to do is to develop our interior defense to a point that we don't get shredded and tagged with a foul every time Bell or Stephens wants/ needs to to go to the hoop. The other big thing is to not let the end game situations come down to wrong three point shooters taking shots just because the defense is baiting them into them, and (sorry to say it) have AJ out of the way from being fouled. We need our best foul shooters on the line, and that means we need Jones and Caleb in there with the ball at those end game situations. Every game we lost this year was a function of being worn down by the other team's athleticism coupled with some or all of the above. |
|
|
penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
12-30-17 10:42 PM - Post#241649
Much is going to be matchup challenge. |
|
|
Tiger69 Postdoc Posts 2814 |
12-30-17 11:54 PM - Post#241651
Should be a great double header with the women with reasonable prospects for upsets in either game. |
|
|
dperry Postdoc Posts 2214 
|
 12-31-17 03:04 AM - Post#241655
Should be a great double header with the women with reasonable prospects for upsets in either game. Should be noted that it is not literally a doubleheader; the men play Friday night at 7, whereas the women are Saturday afternoon at 1. The games in Princeton will be separated by a full week, with the men playing on Feb. 6 and the women on the 13th, both Tuesdays.
|
|
|
Tiger69 Postdoc Posts 2814 |
12-31-17 11:11 AM - Post#241663
My bad. Thanks for the dope slap. What a lost opportunity! With followers of both M and W this could have been a better crowd than normal. 
|
|
|
SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
12-31-17 04:14 PM - Post#241674
Interesting matchup questions. Could AJ guard Stephens? Seems like they will pull both AJ and Max away from the basket no matter how you slice it, which makes helping more complicated. |
|
|
Tiger69 Postdoc Posts 2814 |
12-31-17 05:00 PM - Post#241675
Maybe. But, you can't afford to get AJ in foul trouble. |
|
|
PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3584 |
01-01-18 03:35 PM - Post#241696
I would think Darnell guards Cannady, Woods takes Bell and Betley takes Desrosiers while AJ guards Stephens. Max will be on Much, which is the only matchup I am pretty certain about. It will be interesting to see how Penn guards ball screens with Much setting the screens for Cannady, Bell or Stephens. |
|
|
penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
01-01-18 07:59 PM - Post#241702
It will negate Max's proficiency on the boards, for one. |
|
|
mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
01-01-18 08:16 PM - Post#241703
Just out of curiosity... what way do you think would be an upset? |
|
|
westphillywarrior Sophomore Posts 196 |
01-01-18 09:03 PM - Post#241704
Penn will be favored in the men's game. |
|
|
penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
01-01-18 09:25 PM - Post#241707
Penn will be favored in the men's game. I'd be surprised if they were. Either way, the line should be somewhat minimal. |
|
|
mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
01-01-18 09:30 PM - Post#241708
Yeah, I’d suspect something like Penn -1.5, but Vegas gets frisky on momentum, and over the past month, it’d be Princeton by a few. I was more curious because this is one of those moments where recency and overall conflict a bit and I’m not totally sure where Vegas will net out... |
|
|
SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
01-01-18 09:45 PM - Post#241712
Yes, seems like the line should be close enough that using the word "upset" in either direction seems inappropriate. |
|
|
PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3584 |
01-01-18 10:29 PM - Post#241718
It will negate Max's proficiency on the boards, for one. I doubt it |
|
|
Tiger69 Postdoc Posts 2814 |
01-02-18 12:56 AM - Post#241722
I think that both M and W games will be close. My assumption was the Princeton will be a slight favorite on the M side and Penn in the W game. But no outcome other than a blowout in either game will surprise me. |
|
|
Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1896 |
01-02-18 01:32 AM - Post#241723
Can someone recap Princeton's (men's) roster vs. last year? My recollection is that in recent years Princeton was simply too strong for Penn - they were bigger and better all around. I feel like our team has improved a small bit in terms of roster, and a fair amount in terms of coaching and system. What has been happening with Princeton that we are now considered too close to call? |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4910 |
01-02-18 03:06 AM - Post#241724
Princeton graduated Steven Cook, Spencer Weisz, and Pete Miller. That was a top scorer and defender, the team leader and #1 passer (as well as a clutch rebounder, steals man, and three-point shooter), and the best post defender on the squad. Lots of points and rebounds and assists gone. Those losses, plus the early OOC performance (horrible loss to Lehigh, e.g.) by the Tigers, made the power ratings for Princeton look worse than last year. Since the loss to George Washington, however, Much has stepped in to add some much-needed offensive punch and continuity and the Tigers have been playing much more consistent defense (though still showing some vulnerability in the post and on drives). Bell had a very strong west-coast swing, and the team just seemed to gel in winning four of five, including victories at USC and at Hawaii. So PU has "momentum" if that is a real thing, but their preseason and early OOC were worse than last year. Personally, I think Princeton will play very well in the Palestra, as has been their recent habit. |
|
|
AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4358 |
01-02-18 07:01 AM - Post#241725
This is not intended to put Princeton down as I think they remain the team to beat in our league, but it's unlikely they beat USC if USC's star, Bennie Boatright, had played in that game. Still - USC had some very good players on the court that day. |
|
|
jeromelh Junior Posts 213 |
01-02-18 09:56 AM - Post#241730
Hi I hope you don't mind a visiting Princeton guy posting here. I am sure you are reading the Princeton message board as well. Just to add to SRP's post. He is correct that Sebastian Much as been the reason for the improvement. He came in as a freshman 3 star, but just a hair below a 4 star. Next to Cannady, he currently plays the most minutes. While only 6'8", he has a big body and has become the starting center. His basketball IQ is off the charts. He is a great passer and an excellent shooter out to beyond the 3 point line. Most likely, how Princeton does this Friday will depend on him. |
|
|
Tiger69 Postdoc Posts 2814 |
01-02-18 10:58 AM - Post#241731
The short cut answer is that last year Princeton was in a peak year with lots of vets and experience together while Penn was in a developing year. This year the roles are somewhat reversed with Princeton replacing three key players in its rotation with talented newcomers while Penn moves forward with a core of players more experienced together. The key for Princeton is how quickly they can gel together and how successfully they can replace their losses. |
|
|
10Q Professor Posts 23360 |
01-02-18 11:06 AM - Post#241732
The key for Princeton is not sucking, a hurdle that is probably beyond reach. |
|
|
Tiger69 Postdoc Posts 2814 |
01-02-18 11:34 AM - Post#241734
Your comments always reaffirm my belief that Penn has come a long way in the past few years 
|
|
|
T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1171 |
01-02-18 11:58 AM - Post#241736
The key for Princeton is not sucking, a hurdle that is probably beyond reach. Prediction: While it's still very early, this shall withstand the test of time and be crowned Comment of the Year. |
|
|
TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
01-02-18 12:08 PM - Post#241737
I haven't seen much (no pun intended) of Princeton this year. Princeton is better than its record from what I've seen, with Henderson doing his usual excellent job of integrating his new starters and rotation players so they are ready for league play. I agree with Jerome that Much is a handful. I'd disagree that the roles are reversed. Princeton's core 3 players are more experienced than Penn's, especially considering that Penn's one core senior has been a starter for only a year. |
|
|
yoyo Senior Posts 363 |
01-02-18 01:33 PM - Post#241741
Foreman has started since his sophomore year |
|
|
Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1896 |
01-02-18 01:50 PM - Post#241742
From what I've seen, Penn still has boundaries in their ability. The key issue is shooting. The ability to have a great night at the three point line (and foul line) gives a less talented team the upside to beat a good one. Our team plays solidly - pretty good rebounding, decent defense, and an offense that creates about as well as it should. They just don't have many knock down shooters. I think Penn's defense will be under a bit more pressure in the league and they will always vulnerable because of the shooting. This may not be a championship team, but at least this season is a blast to watch and the program is representing itself well for the future. |
|
|
Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3618 
|
01-02-18 01:51 PM - Post#241743
Now that Princeton has gotten past challenges of integrating new comers, they are very good. Their core 3 of Cannady, Bell, and Stephens have something like 6-7 years of starting for Princeton among them and are as good a top 3 as any in the league. Much now looks every part the 3 star recruit and frankly looks as "Princeton" as you can get. For me, the biggest concern is their 3 point shooting... literally everyone that plays can hit and their team average is just a shade under 40% for 39th best in the country. By the numbers, their defense isn't as good as it has been over their last few years and I do like our depth a bit better. I think the key for Penn is the guys have to hit open 3s in this game and on defense we need to chase them off the line and not over foul. |
|
|
PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3584 |
01-02-18 01:59 PM - Post#241745
Much has recently been starting and I'd expect him to start this Friday at the Palestra but Princeton is all about the big 3 of Cannaday, Bell and Stephens. Each of them plays 30+ minutes a game and take a majority of the shots. Much has played 20-25 minutes most of the games and is averaging 8pts and 3 rebounds. He 56 of his 84 shots have been 3 ptrs and he is making 39%. His game is a concern, but he is not the focus. Max will be on him. How we guard the other 3 will tell the story of this game. As for our offense, Princeton's defensive strategy has been consistent. They hard hedge ball screens and rotate when you reverse it. They double the post and rotate aggressively. They will leave our worst 3 pt shooters open so our execution (passing/reversing the ball) and ability to break down their defense to get good shots will be the key. |
|
|
penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
01-02-18 02:13 PM - Post#241746
Princeton has too many guys who can hurt you, at least compared to Penn. Doesn't mean that Penn can't win, but we have less margin of error to work with than our rivals. |
|
|
T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1171 |
01-02-18 02:31 PM - Post#241751
Let's turn the tables. If you're Princeton, what are your major concerns regarding Penn heading into this game? |
|
|
jeromelh Junior Posts 213 |
01-02-18 02:33 PM - Post#241752
Hi Penn Fan Have to respectfully disagree with you. Much as been the glue. He is a great passer and when he is not on the floor, Princeton struggles. He has been getting better every game, i.e. scoring more, shooting more accurately, etc. But Penn Nation is correct. We have good players off the bench. |
|
|
penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
01-02-18 02:44 PM - Post#241753
Let's turn the tables. If you're Princeton, what are your major concerns regarding Penn heading into this game? AJ and Max down low, and Betley from anywhere. Let the others shoot away, except for Jones when he's in. |
|
|
TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
01-02-18 02:49 PM - Post#241754
Thanks for the correction yoyo. You're right - Foreman started the 2nd half of his sophomore year, then the 2nd half of his junior year. Which I think still gives him less time as a starter than Princeton's core 3. And I'm going to agree with everyone. Yes, Princeton has become more multi-faceted than they were at the beginning of the season. Yes, it's important to focus first on Cannady-Stephens-Bell. And yes, it makes sense to have Rothschild on Much. I think the key is how well Foreman and Woods play against Cannady and Bell. |
|
|
penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
01-02-18 02:52 PM - Post#241756
I think the key is how well Foreman and Woods play against Cannady and Bell. If this is how we're going to frame it, we've already lost the game. Have to assume that both Cannady and Bell will be able to penetrate at times--the question is how does the rest of the team defend them. The situation was reversed a few seasons ago with Hicks vs. Princeton. Hicks would go off for a while, but eventually Princeton would adjust as a team and he'd get stymied once getting by the first guy. |
|
|
TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
01-02-18 03:06 PM - Post#241758
If Cannady and Bell consistently blow by Foreman and Woods then it's going to be a long game. I don't expect they will be able to stop Cannady and Bell all the time but the Penn guards need to slow down the Princeton guards and keep them off the boards. Alternative way of winning is if Jones, Wood or Donahue have a David Lardner-esque night. |
|
|
penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
01-02-18 03:11 PM - Post#241760
If Cannady and Bell consistently blow by Foreman and Woods then it's going to be a long game. I don't expect they will be able to stop Cannady and Bell all the time but the Penn guards need to slow down the Princeton guards and keep them off the boards. One on one, they'll probably be OK. But Princeton being Princeton, it will be about the picks being set to free them up. I definitely agree about the rebounding--our guards will need to be especially vigilant given that AJ and Max might not always the closest defenders to the ball. |
|
|
PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3584 |
01-02-18 03:14 PM - Post#241761
Hi Penn Fan Have to respectfully disagree with you. Much as been the glue. He is a great passer and when he is not on the floor, Princeton struggles. He has been getting better every game, i.e. scoring more, shooting more accurately, etc. But Penn Nation is correct. We have good players off the bench. Much is the key for Princeton because he gives them a 4th option, just like when Antonio makes 3's or Max gets a double/double, it makes the big 3 harder to defend. If we can limit Princeton's big 3 to 40% of the points or less then I don't care how many points Much scores, we will win the game. |
|
|
jeromelh Junior Posts 213 |
01-02-18 03:15 PM - Post#241762
Hi TPFKADW I would be very concerned about penetration by Penn guards. This has been a problem for the Tigers since day one. Hopefully your foul shooting will continue to be a problem because Penn may very well spend a lot of time on the foul line. |
|
|
SRP Postdoc Posts 4910 |
01-02-18 04:03 PM - Post#241769
Yeah, it's been Short Attention Span Theater too many times on defense against drives. One good possession then a bad one, or good for 25 seconds then falling asleep and somebody is at the rim. |
|
|
TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
01-02-18 04:06 PM - Post#241770
Well then the bad news for you is that Penn's starting guards can drive. The good news for you is that neither are great at finishing. Somewhat surprisingly Foreman has been better at finishing while Woods has been better at keeping defenses honest with a decent 3FG%. I was expecting the opposite. |
|
|
SteveChop PhD Student Posts 1154 |
01-02-18 07:04 PM - Post#241789
So what else is new? |
|
|
TigerFan PhD Student Posts 1885 |
01-02-18 09:10 PM - Post#241801
Let's turn the tables. If you're Princeton, what are your major concerns regarding Penn heading into this game? Stepping on vomit or being bitten by a rat in the bowels of your gym. |
|
|
penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
01-02-18 09:36 PM - Post#241805
Dude, when's the last time you visited the place? You might be pleasantly surprised. Plus, visiting fans have superb views of the action. We don't have to sit in an adjoining zip code like they do in some airplane hangars.
Let's turn the tables. If you're Princeton, what are your major concerns regarding Penn heading into this game? Stepping on vomit or being bitten by a rat in the bowels of your gym. |
|
|
TigerFan PhD Student Posts 1885 |
01-02-18 09:55 PM - Post#241810
Just trying to have a little fun and post something at least a bit more clever than 10Q, dude. I've actually been a fan of the Palestra since my Dad took me to a Princeton-Penn/Temple-LaS alle double header back in the late 70s. And yes, the building seemed to be in a little better shape when I made it there both days for the post-season Ivy thingy last March. |
|
|
Bryan Junior Posts 231 |
01-02-18 10:06 PM - Post#241814
One of the real strengths of the Penn team is that Bentley moves extremely well without the ball. |
|
|
penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
01-02-18 10:23 PM - Post#241815
So does Kennedy for Princeton. |
|
|
PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3584 |
01-02-18 10:43 PM - Post#241818
Don’t forget Stevens and Bol. |
|
|
penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
01-02-18 10:46 PM - Post#241819
Yeah, but we've got Tony Wood and Caleb Woods. And Jerome Ray (you wouldn't know it from his last name, but you can't spell cheesesteak without R-A-Y). |
|
|
Bryan Junior Posts 231 |
01-02-18 11:08 PM - Post#241822
One of the real strengths of the Penn team is that Bentley moves extremely well without the ball. My apologies to Ryan Betley for misspelling his name. Sorry that my typing is lousy. You still move very well without the ball. |
|
|
Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3618
|
01-03-18 12:51 AM - Post#241825
Yes we need Betley to have a big game on Fri on both ends. He does move very well off the ball and also is a better defender than you expect because he is very long. He's been very good and consistent all year but is due for a big game so here's to hoping it's this week. |
|
|
Quakers03 Professor Posts 12530 |
01-03-18 01:20 AM - Post#241828
Just trying to have a little fun and post something at least a bit more clever than 10Q, dude. You took the time to compose it and thought THAT was more clever?? |
|
|
Charlie Fog Masters Student Posts 586 |
01-03-18 08:17 AM - Post#241835
That is pretty clever, for a Princeton fan. |
|
|
jeromelh Junior Posts 213 |
01-03-18 09:11 AM - Post#241837
I think this thread is deteriorating. |
|
|
10Q Professor Posts 23360 |
01-03-18 10:53 AM - Post#241849
Someone nominated my post for post of the decade. So I doubt anything a Tiger person could come up with would be more clever. |
|
|
Tiger69 Postdoc Posts 2814 |
01-03-18 11:20 AM - Post#241853
Do you understand the word "irony"? |
|
|
palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
01-03-18 11:57 AM - Post#241857
Sure---it's "raaiiinnnnnn on your weddin' day", right? |
|
|
Tiger69 Postdoc Posts 2814 |
01-03-18 01:12 PM - Post#241873
I confess, you lost me on that one, P38.  I guess I should have told 10Q that the only other nominee was DT.
|
|
|
palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
01-03-18 02:07 PM - Post#241877
You really ARE old, p'69. Here it is for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jne9t8sHpUc |
|
|
Tiger69 Postdoc Posts 2814 |
01-03-18 02:40 PM - Post#241883
True that. I feel like I've aged 20 years in the last 12 months. Thanks for the funny link, P38. |
|
|
penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
01-06-18 07:35 PM - Post#242484
I think this hit the key points today.
Let's turn the tables. If you're Princeton, what are your major concerns regarding Penn heading into this game? AJ and Max down low, and Betley from anywhere. Let the others shoot away, except for Jones when he's in. |
|
|
Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3618
|
01-06-18 10:19 PM - Post#242508
Yes we need Betley to have a big game on Fri on both ends. He does move very well off the ball and also is a better defender than you expect because he is very long. He's been very good and consistent all year but is due for a big game so here's to hoping it's this week. If we are quoting ourselves for keys/predictions to the game, I will give myself a pat on the back, haha. |
|
|
 |
|
| Copyright © 2004-2012 Basketball U. Terms of Use for our Site and Privacy Policy are applicable to you. All rights reserved. Basketball U. and its subsidiaries are not affiliated in any way with any NCAA athletic conference or member institution. |
|