Username | Post: Yale | |
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Charlie Fog Masters Student Posts 586 |
02-03-18 12:00 PM - Post#245806
Penn -5.5 |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 07:55 PM - Post#245872
Cannady took a tumble late in the 1st half and looks a bit hobbled. Something to keep in mind come Tuesday night. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 08:08 PM - Post#245874
Stellar start as Rothschild and Foreman both miss in close. Betley finally scores in the paint and gets the and-1. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 08:10 PM - Post#245876
Max and Ryan each in the paint. Yale also scoring in close at the other end, first Oni twice, then Atkinson. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 08:12 PM - Post#245877
Max again in the low post, spinning around Atkinson for the layup, after a Copeland foul line jumper in transition. 9-8 Penn at the first media timeout. Only one 3 even attempted by the Quakers, a miss off the opening tip. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 08:13 PM - Post#245878
Woods with the strong drive and lefty layup. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 08:14 PM - Post#245879
Woods misses a three, and Yale gets the easy transition basket by Copeland . |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 08:14 PM - Post#245880
Nothing but misses from the perimeter, 2 by Woods, one by Betley. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 08:16 PM - Post#245881
Despite last night, really don’t think we need Woods repeatedly bombing from outside. Another miss, Now Caleb makes one. 14-10 Penn. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 08:17 PM - Post#245882
That’s what Woods should be doing - takes a bounce pass in the paint from Rothschild and muscles in the layup through the foul. And makes the FT! |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 08:19 PM - Post#245883
Brown continues to give Princeton problems with their up tempo play. 60-60 with 13:30 to play. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 08:20 PM - Post#245884
17-12 Penn at the under 12:00 timeout. A.J. hasn’t even taken a shot yet. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 08:21 PM - Post#245885
I hear lame D.J. music again during a Palestra timeout. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 08:24 PM - Post#245886
Simmons struggling on both ends. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 08:26 PM - Post#245889
Overmatched by Atkinson, Simmons quickly commits his second foul and hits the bench. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-03-18 08:26 PM - Post#245890
Did you see that behind the back pass? |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 08:28 PM - Post#245891
Did you see that behind the back pass? Kind of negated by Simmons failing to convert it. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 08:30 PM - Post#245892
Big moment in the Brown game as Cambridge picks up his 4th foul and exits midway through the 2nd half. Princeton up 2. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 08:34 PM - Post#245895
Princeton widens its lead to 77-72. It has been driving the lane with virtual impunity this half. 7:20 to play, Princeton ball. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 08:36 PM - Post#245896
10-2 Penn run has pushed the lead to 29-20, much of it on attacks at the basket - Woods, Wood, and Rothschild (off a great high-low feed from Foreman) all doing their part. Now the D forces a shot clock violation to bring us to the under-4:00 media break. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 08:37 PM - Post#245897
Cambridge back in and immediately picks up a key offensive board that puts him on the line.
Princeton widens its lead to 77-72. It has been driving the lane with virtual impunity this half. 7:20 to play, Princeton ball. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-03-18 08:38 PM - Post#245898
Missing SO many shots. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 08:39 PM - Post#245899
Proceeds to miss an uncontested Tomahawk jam. This guy is fun to watch.
Cambridge back in and immediately picks up a key offensive board that puts him on the line.
Princeton widens its lead to 77-72. It has been driving the lane with virtual impunity this half. 7:20 to play, Princeton ball. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 08:39 PM - Post#245900
Four straight blown chances inside and we’re stuck at 29-20. Yale really struggling at the other end. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 08:42 PM - Post#245901
Missing SO many shots. Saturday legs. Teams combined 1-18 from 3. A.J. looks lost. Now fumbles away a nice feed from Woods, then can’t control Atkinson on D and gives up the 3-point play. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 08:43 PM - Post#245903
P up 4 with 3:40 to play. Brown fans have a legit complaint about the reffing down the stretch on a couple of no call offensive boards by P and a brilliant B twisting drive for a hoop that was called for a travel. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 08:47 PM - Post#245904
31-25 HALF. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 08:57 PM - Post#245906
Looks like Pr will hang on. This game was quite the battle. Tuesday night we will have two very tired teams. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-03-18 09:00 PM - Post#245907
Nah. These are kids. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 09:02 PM - Post#245908
Well, in any event I spoke too soon. We might be heading to OT. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 09:04 PM - Post#245909
Just wow. Cambridge stuffs Stephens at the buzzer and we head to OT. 90-90. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:06 PM - Post#245911
Penn pushes the lead to 11 on a nice give-and-go from Foreman to Rothschild, but immediately surrenders the traditional three-point play to Atkinson makes it 36-28. Brodeur can’t get anything. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 09:07 PM - Post#245912
They should dispense with the preliminaries and name Cambridge Ivy Player of the Week right now. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-03-18 09:09 PM - Post#245913
Brick after brick |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3580 |
02-03-18 09:10 PM - Post#245914
They should dispense with the preliminaries and name Cambridge Ivy Player of the Week right now. or of the year. He's a major impact player and might be in the conversation |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:10 PM - Post#245915
40-32 Penn at the first media timeout after a steal results in a Wood transition layup. |
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91Quake PhD Student Posts 1124 |
02-03-18 09:11 PM - Post#245916
Sounds like the Penn women beat Yale. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 09:13 PM - Post#245917
Yes. Princeton-Brown tied at 96 with 1:11 to play, Brown ball. Brown so incredibly athletic. And Cannady one tough son of a you know what. He has been nothing but nails down the stretch. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 09:16 PM - Post#245918
Much fouled as he scores to tie it up at 98-98 with 44 seconds to play. What a game. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:17 PM - Post#245919
Can’t get any separation. Vince is right, Yale dictating flow and have turned it into their typical rock fight. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:20 PM - Post#245920
Yay, two straight Silpe 3s. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-03-18 09:20 PM - Post#245921
Silpe!!! |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:21 PM - Post#245922
Betley scoop and they’ve matched their largest lead. |
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Big R&B Truth Masters Student Posts 427 |
02-03-18 09:23 PM - Post#245923
Princeton is about to lose |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:24 PM - Post#245924
Yale has gone cold, but Quakers themselves have missed on three straight possessions: a Max short arm on an attempted reverse layup, a Wood three try, and an off-balance-looked-like-h e-travelled Foreman floater in the lane that came up short. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:27 PM - Post#245926
Good D forces a Yale three miss at end of shot clock, but Foreman in transition whips a rising bullet pass five feet over Woods’s head as he cuts to the basket, and Antonio can barely get a hand on it for the turnover. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:29 PM - Post#245927
Another great stop on D, another awful turnover, thus time by A.J. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 09:30 PM - Post#245929
I missed the last 20 seconds, but it had to be a major choke job. Pr had just pulled down a key offensive board and was on the line to shoot 2 with I'm guessing 15 or so seconds to play, with the game tied. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:31 PM - Post#245931
This is some awful basketball both ways, |
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Big R&B Truth Masters Student Posts 427 |
02-03-18 09:32 PM - Post#245932
Princeton was up by 2 and then Cambridge hits a three with 4 second left. First game in Princeton history where both teams score in the 100s. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:32 PM - Post#245934
BRODEUR SCORES!!! 53-40. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3580 |
02-03-18 09:35 PM - Post#245937
Cambridge willed Brown to victory. He is an elite talent |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-03-18 09:36 PM - Post#245938
Penn band just played fly iggles fly. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:36 PM - Post#245939
Sheesh. Two straight Yale hoops sandwiched around an A.J. missed 3 cut it to 9, and then he fumbles the ball away again. 2:57 left. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-03-18 09:36 PM - Post#245940
Atkinson is really good |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:37 PM - Post#245941
Reynolds and Atkinson scoring at will despite decent D. |
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91Quake PhD Student Posts 1124 |
02-03-18 09:37 PM - Post#245942
He can't be elite. He was only a 2 star recruit. (I kid). |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:37 PM - Post#245943
Another strong Woods drive for the lefty layup. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 09:37 PM - Post#245944
Cambridge was hitting ridiculous shots all night long--as was Cannady. The good news is that we now have an excellent shot at making the IL Tourney. The bad news is that I do not want to be playing Brown in the IL Tourney. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-03-18 09:39 PM - Post#245945
Too many fouls to give. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:39 PM - Post#245947
Huge Max offensive rebound after Woods miss among the trees. Yale now resorting to foul fest since Penn still not in one-and-one. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3580 |
02-03-18 09:39 PM - Post#245948
He can't be elite. He was only a 2 star recruit. (I kid). Good point |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:40 PM - Post#245949
And Foreman gives up the awful turnover to cut the lead to 55-50. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:41 PM - Post#245950
Finally to 7 fouls, Betley to the line. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:42 PM - Post#245951
Misses front end. Oh man, Copeland with the unforced turnover. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:42 PM - Post#245952
Woods to the line, 30.9 left. Phills is done. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:43 PM - Post#245953
Caleb makes 2. 57-50. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:44 PM - Post#245955
Yale missed 3, strong Woods rebound, and he gets it quickly to Betley for the foul. Betley hits both with 20.9 left. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 09:44 PM - Post#245956
59-50 FINAL. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2125 |
02-03-18 10:23 PM - Post#245970
This was an ugly game all around, but I'll take the W. Our defense was good, and we managed to maintain that lead down the stretch. Woods and Wood played well, and Max has been pretty consistent at both ends. Betley is scoring, but they're quiet points. And as mentioned upthread, Jake gave the team a lift at a time where they really needed it. As usual, the Saturday night Ivy zebras displayed typical selective blindness. Phantom fouls and missed violations abounded. Too bad Cornell couldn't manage to sneak past Harvard, though. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-03-18 10:34 PM - Post#245972
Yes. We need that all important top seed. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-03-18 10:40 PM - Post#245973
Princeton scores 100 points and loses. Another sign of the apocalypse. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2125 |
02-03-18 10:42 PM - Post#245975
Seriously. The two teams I would least like to face in the first round are Brown and Princeton. That said, I'm a bit concerned with how our guys will respond to next week's road games after such a long stretch at home. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 6997 |
02-03-18 10:44 PM - Post#245976
I’m looking forward to Brown sneaking in as the 4 seed and winning the dumb thing. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 10:44 PM - Post#245977
It does guarantee us post-season action, however. That would be a major coup for this year no matter what the tourney is. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 10:45 PM - Post#245979
This is quite possible. At this point, I don't think anyone's sleeping on Brown.
I’m looking forward to Brown sneaking in as the 4 seed and winning the dumb thing. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2125 |
02-03-18 10:47 PM - Post#245980
I’m looking forward to Brown sneaking in as the 4 seed and winning the dumb thing. That might well cause the universe to implode. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-03-18 10:47 PM - Post#245981
On the second point, Princeton will be coming off of two straight OT games, with the second one an absolute heartbreaker. Hopefully Penn will be fresher than Princeton down the stretch--Quakers should be a bit more rested.
Seriously. The two teams I would least like to face in the first round are Brown and Princeton. That said, I'm a bit concerned with how our guys will respond to next week's road games after such a long stretch at home. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6391 |
02-03-18 11:23 PM - Post#245990
Which is important, I agree. In terms of just making the Ivy tourney, I think we actually wanted Brown to lose that game tonight. In terms of just getting in, at 5-0 we are better off if, like last year, 6-8 gets you in. Not that i’m condoning thinking of it as just having to win 1 or 2 more! |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6391 |
02-03-18 11:32 PM - Post#245992
On Silpe, those shots were a testament to what can happen when you get some consistent run and can play through mistakes. For whatever reason, I thought Silpe bogged down the offense in the first half and was getting in the way of our movement. And then he had the awful failure to box out Phils on the play where Yale cut it to 43-40. But after not playing well to that point, he hit the 2 straight 3s that arguably won the game. Also thought the defense on Oni was interesting. After Cambridge the night before, watching the first two couple of buckets (with Betley on him, I believe), I kind of thought here we go again. But we switched and guarded him with mostly Woods and Foreman the rest of the way, and shut him down entirely. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3580 |
02-04-18 12:30 AM - Post#245997
I really think Oni is not at 100%. He did not look normal to me. |
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Cvonvorys Postdoc Posts 4438 |
02-04-18 01:15 AM - Post#245998
A couple thoughts having watched the game from section 214. 1) If you were told in advance that Penn starters would shoot 1-13 from 3 and AJ would score 2 points, is there anyone who would've thought Penn would win? Good teams find ways to win. 2) There were probably a half dozen shots from Penn that were 3/4s of the way down, but spun out. A little better luck and Penn wins by 20. 3) I never was worried that Penn would lose. They looked to me like they were the better team. 4) This is the first year in many that I have confidence in the team coming down the stretch. In so many seasons in the past, we could not hold onto leads and lose in the closing minute(s). Yale, like other teams this year, cut into Penn leads, but could never get over the hump. 5) Those 2 Silpe 3s were awesome. I know many of us had such high expectations for him. Great for the kid to deliver in the clutch. 6) I had the pleasure of meeting a few of you at halftime. It's good to now be able to put a face with a name. |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3615 |
02-04-18 02:03 AM - Post#246000
Another good win even when the offense struggled shooting from distance but very good D made the difference. Awesome to be 5-0 and a top the board, but considering every home game was a battle, we have a real tough road ahead of us for this next stretch. Let’s hope we can get some more wins in that column! |
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Charlie Fog Masters Student Posts 586 |
02-04-18 08:50 AM - Post#246004
AJ has to get it together. |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3765 |
02-04-18 09:43 AM - Post#246007
AJ played very good defense last night and rebounded well. He wasn't trying to force things on offense. The team won. It wasn't his most brilliant game, but he has it together. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-04-18 09:51 AM - Post#246010
Yes. It's a team approach. AJ knows when not to force himself into aggressive moves. This is a well coached team. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3580 |
02-04-18 10:04 AM - Post#246011
It’s actually great to see this team play as each starter as well as a couple bench players can be the star on any given night. We don’t need AJ or Ryan to go off every night to have a chance. Having Ryan and AJ score a total of 14 and still win is big. Antonio, Caleb, Max and Darnell all have had games/stretches of games where they had huge impacts. AJ will be fine and will have some great games ahead. Great to see a solid weekend of FT shooting. 73% as a team on the weekend. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3580 |
02-04-18 10:44 AM - Post#246018
I would really like to see some more from Jarrod Simmons. He has more ability than what we are seeing. I think this is all his mentality. He is adjusting to the college game. He comes into games with energy and something bad happens and his body language is terrible. He has to have more confidence in himself and develop a short memory. He scored on a great move early and was called for traveling. He slumped his shoulders and barely jogged back on D. Then 2 quick fouls. He has to trust he is going to play and when he gets in he just has to play hard and not focus on the results. He appears to be over thinking things. I think we need Jarrod to be a 15-20min a game guy at least down the stretch. That's really on him as coach seems to want to play him. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6391 |
02-04-18 11:28 AM - Post#246024
I thought his defense at the start of the 2nd half set the tone (we would not give up that lead) and arguably won the game for us. He didn’t do anything on offense, and he struggled with Atkinson late, but he was a big part of the win. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-04-18 11:59 AM - Post#246029
That Atkinson is really good. A 6 10 freshman who can shoot and move is an amazing get for Yale. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3580 |
02-04-18 12:03 PM - Post#246030
For sure. Can you imagine a lineup with he and Bruner? Yikes. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3580 |
02-04-18 12:04 PM - Post#246031
There is some really great talent in this league. The current sophomore class added to this freshman class in the Ivy's and I agree with Mr James that we are headed up in a hurry. #toptenIvy #twobidfuture |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8141 |
02-04-18 12:11 PM - Post#246032
Hmmm; a few observations on the back of this thread: As to Simmons, SD wants minutes from him in part because Penn creates matchup problems for just about every team in the League. Simmons adds to that bigly. He also makes it easier to give Max and AJ a blow when they need it. As mentioned above, he overreacts to mistakes and he's a foul machine. Keep in mind though, a number of our best players over the years were like this as frosh (U comes to mind.) One thing I notice though, is that SD seems to prefer using him as a 5 than a 4. Maybe this is due to defensive matchups and maybe it tells us something about his future role. Otherwise, this was one of those rare games that went down exactly as we suspected it would (unlike the PU-Brown game that many folks were playing more attention to.) Both teams came out pretty sharp, but fatigue set in quickly and things got messy quickly. Thankfully, the official crew ate their whistles (so many walks uncalled) or this could have been painful to watch. This Penn team just took care of business and their mental toughness (plus playing at home) won the evening in the end. Those Silpe 3's really were the turning point though. Random stuff - word is that the rotation is now quite set (barring injuries) and, perhaps aside from situational minutes for Goodman, what we see is what we get the rest of the year. Great to see Vince Curran and Steve D. holding court at Wahoos after the game. Coming off the well-done halftime ceremonies honoring the '78 team (almost all of them were present, including Matt White's daughter) and the new atrium/exhibit between the Palestra & Hutch (can't wait to check that out), there is a very positive vibe around the program right now. So nice after the lost decade. Oh, and congrats to P38 & Stan Lane as they too got a shout out at the half as XPN voices for that 78 team. Gave me a warm feeling back to the days when XPN was about the students and we got to call the games ourselves. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3580 |
02-04-18 12:22 PM - Post#246034
I am not concerned about going on the road, this team played its first 8 plus on the road and have been pretty consistent all season. They will lose a few on the road yet if you play defense and rebound, you will have a chance every night. I agree Jarrod has frehsmanitis. I just want him to get over it more quickly. We will be better if he is on the floor more. As an aside, no one on here would have predicted this team's record where it is with no real contribution from the freshmen. If/when we get these freshmen playing like this team, we will take the next step. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32685 |
02-04-18 12:30 PM - Post#246037
Echem....I said that they would win 20, at least 9 in the league (I underestimated there, although this is pre-road trip) and based that on Antonio and Foreman and Betley providing the kind of solid defense on the perimeter that they had. I never look at freshmen because none of us knows how ready they are. But the obvious replacement for Howard was Antonio, because he is a better defender against tough guards and we had replacements at the 4 (although no one knew how well Max would play). But there is a notable silence on the Antonio doubters, which is warranted at this point---he plays GREAT defense, hits big shots (although not a great outside shooter), is money taking it to the basket and simply makes no mistakes with the ball. He is the biggest difference so far this year in the League. |
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Quakers03 Professor Posts 12480 |
02-04-18 03:24 PM - Post#246073
Man is it fun to go 2-0 on the Brown-Yale home weekend again. I thought Silpe's threes were huge for so many reasons, not the least of which was them putting the game officially out of reach. Agreed with the comments about the frosh we've been seeing. I knew from Atkinson's first free throw that we were looking at someone who can play, and I was very impressed. He made frosh mistakes on d, but he had his way on offense and it was a bit surprising to see. I was all excited to start beating my chest about Antonio and P38 beat me to it. This weekend officially ended any debate. He just brings a different skillset that is a true difference maker. AJ does have those silent stretches but his rebounding has taken off and if the team is better because usage levels between he and Max have evened out, then he'll figure out the scoring. Congrats to P38 on the cool shout out and the Go Stan Greene chant was loud and clear from you guys. That was a special halftime and I'm sure you all enjoyed every second of it. A Kevin McDonald fun fact, he wanted Princeton more until he spent a beautiful Spring Fling weekend at Penn. I very much enjoyed watching Cambridge hit that shot from my Palestra seat (on espn3) and was hoping to be able to get up there on Tuesday...Going to be tough with that timing. I echo everyone's fear of Brown but I guess all we can do is worry about ourselves. A regular season title would still mean something, and I want it. |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3615 |
02-04-18 04:37 PM - Post#246090
I would really like to see some more from Jarrod Simmons. He has more ability than what we are seeing. I think this is all his mentality. He is adjusting to the college game. He comes into games with energy and something bad happens and his body language is terrible. He has to have more confidence in himself and develop a short memory. He scored on a great move early and was called for traveling. He slumped his shoulders and barely jogged back on D. Then 2 quick fouls. He has to trust he is going to play and when he gets in he just has to play hard and not focus on the results. He appears to be over thinking things. I think we need Jarrod to be a 15-20min a game guy at least down the stretch. That's really on him as coach seems to want to play him. Completely agree with you here and we have to get Simmons on the floor at least 10-12 mins per game, especially on the road back to backs, to give AJ and Max a break. Seems Donahue wants that too but Simmons has to do his part and reduce fouls. My observation is also that it seems mental. He has all the tools, nice looking shot, athleticism, good court awareness, etc. Even his stats are promising in limited sample, especially the fact that he isn’t a turnover machine. Let’s hope he can gain some confidence in the coming weeks. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-04-18 04:46 PM - Post#246092
I got to yell Go Stan Green with the guys. That was fun even if I never got to see him play. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
02-04-18 05:28 PM - Post#246098
I was at the game with my daughter. Sounds like I was sitting not too far from Colin. While AJ's offense was MIA - lots of misses and a few fumbles of good passes by Darnell and Antonio - he was a force on D snuffing out Yale's inside game. The D didn't function so well with AJ on the bench. I find myself in the habit of counting Darnell's shots. I was getting worried early because he was ahead of schedule. Otherwise, a very Darnell-like performance. Ryan didn't seem to have his legs at all. The offense seemed stagnant for stretches because he wasn't moving at his usual speed. The Brown game must've taken a lot out of him. Max had a good game - some nifty moves around the hoop, only 2 TOs and 1 foul. Decent on D but has problems when AJ isn't there with him. Another game where Caleb saved the offense. I'm happy Donahue has become comfortable giving him major minutes. Would like to see more of Jake. Those 2 3's he hit were critical. Antonio was player of the game. Some really big plays on offense, played shutdown D. Oni disappeared from the game after Woods started covering him. Woods seemed to be picking up any guard who was hot after that. There was one sequence where Phils tried multiple moves - a drive to the left, a stutter step, even a double crossover - and Woods picked them all up. Phils eventually gave up. Woods also had a few nice baskets going to the hoop in traffic, picking up a lot of contact on the way - sometimes called, sometimes not. And I'm willing to forgive the 3-point shooting spree - they weren't awful shots, a couple when halfway down before coming back out. Still, would prefer he leave the outside shooting early in the clock to others. Plus he's my daughter's favorite player, so there's that. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-04-18 05:36 PM - Post#246099
All I can say is... BEAT PRINCETON!!! |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3580 |
02-04-18 05:46 PM - Post#246102
Echem....I said that they would win 20, at least 9 in the league (I underestimated there, although this is pre-road trip) and based that on Antonio and Foreman and Betley providing the kind of solid defense on the perimeter that they had. I never look at freshmen because none of us knows how ready they are. But the obvious replacement for Howard was Antonio, because he is a better defender against tough guards and we had replacements at the 4 (although no one knew how well Max would play). But there is a notable silence on the Antonio doubters, which is warranted at this point---he plays GREAT defense, hits big shots (although not a great outside shooter), is money taking it to the basket and simply makes no mistakes with the ball. He is the biggest difference so far this year in the League. You did call for 20 games, I stand corrected. And Antonio has been rock solid, very much contributing to several of our wins. I think he is a huge difference maker for this team and likewise I think Max's development is equally huge. Those two have more than replaced Matt H and are major reasons why this team is playing so well. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3580 |
02-04-18 05:58 PM - Post#246105
Echem....I said that they would win 20, at least 9 in the league (I underestimated there, although this is pre-road trip) and based that on Antonio and Foreman and Betley providing the kind of solid defense on the perimeter that they had. I never look at freshmen because none of us knows how ready they are. But the obvious replacement for Howard was Antonio, because he is a better defender against tough guards and we had replacements at the 4 (although no one knew how well Max would play). But there is a notable silence on the Antonio doubters, which is warranted at this point---he plays GREAT defense, hits big shots (although not a great outside shooter), is money taking it to the basket and simply makes no mistakes with the ball. He is the biggest difference so far this year in the League. To be clear, last summer after I posted an update on the freshman your wrote this:
If what you say is true, we are looking to be at best the same as last year---give us improvement for AJ and Betley, but the loss of Howard will not be replaced by anyone close to his senior ability. If we don't have an immediate freshman impact, ugh. |
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SteveChop PhD Student Posts 1150 |
02-04-18 07:48 PM - Post#246115
I do agree with a prior comment that something may have been wrong with Oni. Not only did he disappear, in large part due to Woods’ defense, but he was not even on the floor during the latter part of the game when Yale made their run. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32685 |
02-04-18 07:57 PM - Post#246117
You really worked for that. By the time I saw Antonio play and read what Donahue said about him, I had changed my opinion, as was noted above. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6391 |
02-05-18 12:22 AM - Post#246154
The "Antonio doubters" only come out when you make hyperbolic statements about his play and misrepresent both what you have said and what we have said. In all of the scenarios we discussed, this is exactly what we were saying was a reasonable positive season for him. One where he gets more efficient and is a positive cog. He's great giving us a second ball-handler, diving along the baseline when other guys drive, etc. I agree he's been great on defense too, although I don't think there is any question that the staff still views Foreman as the best perimeter defender, which is why, he was actually switched to Cambridge and Oni (instead of Woods) whenever Anderson or Copeland was off the floor. Woods' numbers now are, as we tried to tell you, similar to where Foreman was last year. A reasonable positive progression from where he was as a Soph. He's still 4th in scoring for us, and last among our starters in WS/40. If this is what you meant all along, great, I guess you were right, but it basically means we never disagreed in the first place. Sure sounded to me like you were predicting an All-Ivy season from a guy who would potentially be our leading scorer. None of this is intended as a knock on Antonio, who has been a rock for us, has a high bball IQ and has saved our bacon repeatedly (as have about 7-8 different guys). I really love the way our top 6 plays right now on both offense and defense. I heartily agree that Antonio's skill set is a big part of that mix. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32685 |
02-05-18 12:26 AM - Post#246155
Sorry, but I was right and all you guys were wrong. I never was hyperbolic over Antonio. I just was correct that he is a real Division One guard and is replacing guys who really were Division Two guys. And Antonio is better than Foreman on defense--it was Antonio who completely shut down Oni after he hit his first 3 shots. No, his contribution is not represented in advanced stats, but that is the weakness in advanced stats, not Antoinio. You just cannot admit it. But that's OK, the evil empire was defeated tonight. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6391 |
02-05-18 12:41 AM - Post#246160
No, I was right and you were wrong. I've got my eyes AND the stats -- you've just got your eyes. Agreed that Woods shut down Oni. My point is merely that there is a clear pecking order in how we defend, and that Foreman is the default on the main guy (with a bias toward guarding the point when there are 2 tough guys to defend). So with Brown he guarded Anderson, but as soon as he leaves the game Foreman moves to Cambridge. Same thing with Yale. When Copeland was out, Foreman had Oni (except when Yale played small and we played big -- then it was AJ on him). |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32685 |
02-05-18 12:46 AM - Post#246161
Antonio came onto Oni after he scored 3 straight and didn't score again all game. Antonio is much stronger than Foreman (who is playing great, now that he is second in having to play the toughest offensive player). You DON'T have stats on your side because all they measure is that Antonio is not a good 3 point shooter (although better than Foreman). What on earth do you think they are telling you? Antonio makes no turnovers, scores 10 or more points in the league games, and stops the best offensive guard on the other team. You have nothing to support your argument--all you are doing is showing that blind obedience to questionable statistics makes you arrogantly stubborn about incorrect conclusions. |
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omegahouse Freshman Posts 84 |
02-05-18 01:21 AM - Post#246162
Hmmmmm.......cogent and thoughtful posts by many of the faithful......alas, Simon and Garfunkel (sorry, spelling on an iPhone is an adventure) worry: “whither Jeff2sf??†No observations, he? |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
02-05-18 07:45 AM - Post#246165
I'm on vacation both literally (Disney) and figuratively(EAgles). Catch you ppl later |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
02-05-18 09:37 AM - Post#246170
Wow, quite Trumpian... The good news is that we were specific in the Red & Blue thread that captured this argument. You wanted me to give you a reasonable estimate of what you might expect from Antonio. Here's what I said:
I can take a crack at this. At 30 mins, that's 75% of team mins. Assuming low-to-mid 20s in shot rate when on the floor, that means he's going to take about 17-18% of total team shots. Penn will probably take about 55-60 shots a game, so he'll take roughly 10 per game. Using the splits we've seen historically, he'll take 2.5 as layups, 3.75 as 2PTJs and 3.75 as 3s. Let's say he makes upper 50s at the rim, upper 30s as 2PTJs and around 30 from three. That's 9 pts on 10 shots. His FTRate has been pretty consistently at 30%, so tack on 3 free throws a game. We'll put him at his freshman year rate and that's another 2 pts. So, now he's at 11ppg. He's going to be on the floor for about 43 shots a game and Penn will make about 19 of those. Of those, four will be his. So there are 15 made baskets upon which he could assist. Let's middle his assist rate and call it 25%. So, he's going to be at about 3.8 apg. He'll be on the floor for 53 poss per game. Say his usage rate is in the low-to-mid 20s, that'll be about 12 poss per game. I'll middle his TO Rate to about 18%, so that's right around 2topg. To me, that's an appropriate baseline. Those counting stats will increase/decrease based on playing time, usage/shot rates on court and conversion percentages. Playing time will be the biggest factor. Your reply was:
And those, roughly, correspond to his stats from his first 1.4 years. I look for significant improvement. Turns out, he's been slightly under those stats, primarily because he didn't turn out to be a 20+% usage, ball-dominant player, but rather has become an off-ball secondary option. That's the type of player he should have become given his offensive limitations, but a guy like that is far more common than the picture you painted of his potential performance. If you look back at that entire thread, your stance here is pretty nuts. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
02-05-18 09:38 AM - Post#246171
The bigger story IMO is the emergence of Caleb Wood. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8141 |
02-05-18 09:57 AM - Post#246174
As to Wood: I have to admit I was wrong about him. He has become very important to this team as a reliable shooter who drains it when he gets his feet set in his spots and at the FT line. His defense has improved a lot and gets more layups and assists than I ever thought possible. He is now an official 6th man. The Woods debate has become unreadable as it has become a proxy for the ‘stats vs sight’ conflict. Trying to assess Woods’ value to the team using the numbers alone is futile. There are so many intangibles with him both on the court and off. I’m a data guy, both personally and professionally, but one of the best lessons I have learned and taught is knowing where analytics end and common sense begins. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
02-05-18 10:19 AM - Post#246176
Streamers - totally agree. And I'm also in a field that relies a lot on data. A major issue with assessing Woods analytically is that much of his positive contribution on the court is on the defensive end, where the advanced numbers we play with are incomplete. And then there are the little things. I'm not saying others don't do these little things, just that I do notice Woods doing them a lot and they do make a difference. One play on Saturday really stood out for me. In the first half Woods tried taking it to the rim, got mugged and fell hard on the court. No call. He didn't lay there looking for a foul call that wasn't coming. He didn't even look in the ref's direction. Instead Woods got right back up and raced down the court to get into defensive position and helped stop Yale on that possession. I don't know where Woods should rate to be honest. My sense is that he's on par with Foreman, who continues to be an underrated player. I do know that Penn wouldn't be where it is without Woods. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32685 |
02-05-18 10:25 AM - Post#246177
Not at all....you completely discount the fact that he is playing 30 minutes a game and considerably more in the Ivy season and making only 1.3 turnovers a game and playing the best offensive guard (and sometimes small forward) of the other team on defense. He is shooting over 55% from 2, which if you look back is exactly what I said--that he gets to the hoop and finishes better than anyone on the team. You and the other stat guys have no way to measure this since you discount 2 point shots and defensive metrics are not exactly well defined. If guys like this were pretty standard, he would not have played 75 minutes this weekend and been the best all around player on the court. You're free to have your own opinions about what makes a player a good player, but please don't give us that tautology speech about how his advanced stats prove he sucks. All they mean is that he is not a great 3 point shooter---other than that , he is really good at this level at every aspect of the game. Yes, and let's not forget Caleb Wood, who has morphed into a great 6th man---not only does he shoot the lights out, but rebounds like a beast. |
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Cvonvorys Postdoc Posts 4438 |
02-05-18 10:45 AM - Post#246181
From my perspective, this team is a well balanced team where the players have clearly defined roles and have accepted/embraced their roles. We don't win with 5 Antonios on the court, but he is tremendous in his role. No stats to back this up, just my opinion. By the way, I have gotten to know Ryan's parents a bit and was chatting with them after Saturday's game. They told me that Ryan and the entire team don't pay attention to personal stats and are only concerned about winning games. You can see that from the players on the bench who you know want desperately to get on the floor but are nonetheless rabidly cheering their teammates on... |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32685 |
02-05-18 10:47 AM - Post#246182
Let me just add that I don't understand how you can say that 2P shooting up 75 percentage points, 3P shooting up 70 percentage points, rebounding close to double and turnovers down by 1/3 is not significant improvement. .308 3 point shooting and 57% FT shooting (although better lately) is the basis for your entire position that he is just another guy. He is very good at every other aspect of the game. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
02-05-18 10:58 AM - Post#246184
From my perspective, this team is a well balanced team where the players have clearly defined roles and have accepted/embraced their roles. We don't win with 5 Antonios on the court, but he is tremendous in his role. No stats to back this up, just my opinion. By the way, I have gotten to know Ryan's parents a bit and was chatting with them after Saturday's game. They told me that Ryan and the entire team don't pay attention to personal stats and are only concerned about winning games. You can see that from the players on the bench who you know want desperately to get on the floor but are nonetheless rabidly cheering their teammates on... The stats do back up your opinion. Win shares of the top 6 : Betley - 2.9 Brodeur - 2.2 Foreman - 1.9 Woods - 1.8 Wood - 1.7 Rothschild - 1.6 That's incredibly balanced. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8141 |
02-05-18 11:08 AM - Post#246186
I don't know where Woods should rate to be honest. My sense is that he's on par with Foreman, who continues to be an underrated player. I do know that Penn wouldn't be where it is without Woods. The biggest reason IMHO that we are winning the close ones lately is that we have 8 years of experience and maturity in our starting backcourt to go with real ability. We have not had anything like it since Rosen was running the show. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3580 |
02-05-18 11:18 AM - Post#246187
We don't have the most talent in the league, but we may be the best team. That's a real testament to SD and the coaches as well as this group of players who clearly are passionate about each other in a way you don't see much. |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3765 |
02-05-18 11:27 AM - Post#246188
Hopefully the coaching staff can translate this success on the court into success on the recruiting front. The program is going to need to up the talent level in order to remain competitive. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
02-05-18 11:27 AM - Post#246189
Again, nuts. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32685 |
02-05-18 11:40 AM - Post#246196
OK, if you feel that is necessary to support an argument. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3580 |
02-05-18 11:49 AM - Post#246202
Hopefully the coaching staff can translate this success on the court into success on the recruiting front. The program is going to need to up the talent level in order to remain competitive. Obviously there needs to be a talent infusion. Building a program requires better players and this trajectory isn't sustainable without an infusion of talent. Yet building a culture of winning and team chemistry is an underrated part of building a winning program. SD has done a great job and this current team has tremendous character such that they are punching above their weight class with consistency in play and effort. I imagine a team in a couple years playing like this team is playing, with Eddie, Jarrod, Jelani, Mike Wang, Dev Goodman and Ryan Betley, along with hopefully soon to be identified top talent and I like the path we are on. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32685 |
02-05-18 12:17 PM - Post#246207
I agree with what both of you have said and if it is of any solace, Grace Calhoun was at the 40th Anniversary reception for the Class of '78 team and said that we have done a great job of turning the program around, but that we are still a step or two away in terms of talent level of where we will be. So she is confident that we will be better going forward, for whatever that is worth. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8141 |
02-05-18 01:13 PM - Post#246213
Given that next year's class appears to have 3 quality players (including the red-shirts) and we are off to a good start with Max M., just add 2 more to the class of 2023 and we will be fine for quite a while. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3580 |
02-05-18 01:25 PM - Post#246216
This year's team is playing consistently well and due to the injuries and down classes in the IL this year, will have a chance to win the regular season and host 2 games for the NCAA. This is a fortuitous opportunity to springboard the program in recruiting, as the league will likely be healthy next year and have 2-4 KP 100 teams when this year there likely won't be any. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-05-18 01:48 PM - Post#246220
Who is going to shoot from 3 next year other than Betley? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32685 |
02-05-18 01:51 PM - Post#246221
Meaning who is going to replace Wood? |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3765 |
02-05-18 02:00 PM - Post#246222
We just have to hope that somebody emerges next season as a 3-pt threat. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-05-18 02:04 PM - Post#246223
And Sam |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8141 |
02-05-18 02:06 PM - Post#246224
Williams and Scott are likely the best hopes for that |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-05-18 02:29 PM - Post#246228
I'm hoping Woods and AJ work a lot on their jumpers. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
02-05-18 02:50 PM - Post#246233
I'm sure they will. FWIW Jelani was nailing 3's from the top of the arc before the Monmouth game. But no one contesting them of course. Much easier to make a shot without a hand in your face. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6391 |
02-05-18 02:52 PM - Post#246235
The reason I discount the "guarding the best offensive player on the other team" thing is because it is completely demonstrably false. Do you know how many possessions he guarded Mike Smith when Foreman was in the game and there wasn't a switch? Do you know when Smith's run started? When Foreman was off the floor and Woods had to guard him. Again, against Yale, when Copeland was off the floor, Foreman had Oni. Do you think that was because they thought Darnell couldn't guard EricMonroe? These aren't eye test things, nor are they advanced stats things. They are simply true things, and on the other side is you just making stuff up. Jeff would say making $&;@ up. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6391 |
02-05-18 02:57 PM - Post#246237
This may not be what people want to hear, but I would think it could be Donahue. My guess if I had to make one is that Woods and Williams start with Donahue playing the Caleb role. But it could be Woods and Silpe starting. And Goodman could get back in the mix. In some ways, because of the need for a shooter, the most predictable thing might be Donahue getting significant bench minutes -- that might be more predictable than who starts with Antonio. I suppose there is also a reasonable possibility that Woods is the point and Donahue starts at off guard. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-05-18 02:57 PM - Post#246238
There aren't so many current Penn guards that can consistently do this even left open.
I'm sure they will. FWIW Jelani was nailing 3's from the top of the arc before the Monmouth game. But no one contesting them of course. Much easier to make a shot without a hand in your face. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32685 |
02-05-18 03:00 PM - Post#246239
Who said anything about Smith? If you're going to make a point, let's at least go with something I said. Smith began scoring because they were desperate and he starting throwing up stuff....went in, but he's that kind of player. Neither Foreman nor Woods is as quick as Smith. Antonio wasn't around when Smith outscored Foreman last year 20-1. It is simply fact, not "making sh.t up" that Donahue regularly puts Woods on the toughest, strongest player because of his speed and strength. Are you going to suggest that Foreman is as big and strong as Woods? I suppose you could argue it depends on the kind of player who is the "best" player, but I would suggest that is a nitpick rather than any kind of true analysis. Against Yale, Oni scored 3 early buckets, and they put Woods on him. Did Woods cover Oni every minute of the rest of the game? Of course not. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32685 |
02-05-18 03:02 PM - Post#246240
From what I have been hearing, Donahue is pretty far back in the hunt for PT right now. I would doubt that they would go back to him unless there is a major improvement in something that now is being found lacking. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3580 |
02-05-18 03:29 PM - Post#246241
Well Silpe was dead and hurried an. Ow look. Jackson can shoot it. And if he finds his stroke again, he will get some PT. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32685 |
02-05-18 03:32 PM - Post#246242
I think he needs to do more than work on his shot. But we'll see |
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SteveChop PhD Student Posts 1150 |
02-05-18 04:11 PM - Post#246249
Jackson was injured a few weeks ago (back issues) - you may recall that he did not suit up for one of the Saturday games (don't remember if it was Princeton or Temple). I'm not sure how serious an injury but I think that's what gave Jake his opportunity a few weeks ago and he has taken advantage. Nothing wrong with that. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6391 |
02-05-18 04:17 PM - Post#246250
You said that Woods always guards the opponent’s best offensive guard. Is there any question who that is for Columbia? |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6391 |
02-05-18 04:21 PM - Post#246251
Buried this year may not mean buried next year, even with no improvement. Wood does what Donahue does plus a lot more. If there isn’t that option, I think the mix of what we are willing to give up may change. So we may take the volume shooting of 3s if we can’t find other ways to stretch the defense. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32685 |
02-05-18 04:22 PM - Post#246252
I said the best offensive player--Cambridge certainly isn't a guard. But Smith presents matchup problems for everyone. That why we had Goodman on him. But Foreman is a good defensive player, he simply is not nearly as strong as Woods. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6391 |
02-05-18 04:26 PM - Post#246253
The thing Wood does that I didn’t see coming is the play around the basket. He’s scored on a number of offensive rebounds in traffic where he looks like Betley in there. He is playing much bigger this year. He’s not Woods in there, but he isn’t shrinking away either. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23199 |
02-05-18 04:28 PM - Post#246254
Maybe Woods can share his workout methods with AJ. He could use some bulking up. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21086 |
02-05-18 04:31 PM - Post#246256
Speaking of Wood...are there any other JUCO candidates in the pipeline? Or is SD ditching that route now that the program is out of the gutter? |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6391 |
02-05-18 05:02 PM - Post#246258
Agreed that Foreman isn’t as strong. To me that’s a different question, but totally agree. In support of the points you are making about strength and what doesn’t show in the stats, statistically Woods is our weakest rebounder among the starters. But when the other team is at the line and we are playing small, he’s the guy in the spot by the basket rather than Betley or Foreman. Woods isn’t getting the rebounds, but he is clearing his guy out so others can get the rebound. Just more of the selfless stuff one of the other posters mentioned. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
02-05-18 05:29 PM - Post#246265
Rebounding on the defensive side is a team effort - everyone has their role. When Foreman is on the court his job is to clean up the loose rebounds, when he isn't then it's typically Woods but sometimes it's someone else - it looked like Silpe was cleaning up loose rebounds when he was on the court Saturday. It's interesting to watch. On offense the bigs were trying to tip back contested boards over to one of the backcourt guys. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3580 |
02-06-18 07:48 AM - Post#246326
We just have to hope that somebody emerges next season as a 3-pt threat. I am pretty sure there are a couple guys already on this roster that have the ability to step up and hit 3s. Kuba worked his way into the rotation before getting hurt after just 1 game of action. I believe he provides shooting. I have also heard some pretty high praise for Ray Jerome and his outside acumen. I wouldn’t be surprised to see one ore more of those guys hidden on the roster emerge next year. |
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1169 |
02-06-18 09:57 AM - Post#246344
We just have to hope that somebody emerges next season as a 3-pt threat. I am pretty sure there are a couple guys already on this roster that have the ability to step up and hit 3s. Kuba worked his way into the rotation before getting hurt after just 1 game of action. I believe he provides shooting. I have also heard some pretty high praise for Ray Jerome and his outside acumen. I wouldn’t be surprised to see one ore more of those guys hidden on the roster emerge next year. I believe our large Mr. Wang will provide this kind of shooting next year as well. |
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Charlie Fog Masters Student Posts 586 |
02-06-18 11:20 AM - Post#246354
Silpe made 2 against Yale but I don’t think that means he can all of a sudden shoot. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6391 |
02-06-18 07:06 PM - Post#246452
You watching who is guarding Cannady here? |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6391 |
02-06-18 07:29 PM - Post#246490
Woods now guarding Aaron Young while Foreman takes Cannady. |
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