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| Username | Post: All-Ivy Picks |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
03-04-18 01:09 AM - Post#250678
My first team: Betley, Brodeur, Lewis, Phils, Towns Second team: Morgan, Gettings, Oni, Smith, Cannady HM: Stephens, Bell, Foreman, Cambridge, Anderson POY: Lewis DPY: Brodeur ROY: Cambridge COY: Donahue Advanced metrics might work against Oni, but he certainly feels like the best player on the third best team, so I have trouble leaving him out. Also feels weird picking so many offense first players in a year where Defense was king, so Bassey in particular could find his way in there somewhere. And Lewis is the best defensive player in the league, but I doubt he gets both POY and DPY. |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3770 |
03-04-18 02:27 PM - Post#250751
1) I love and adore Ryan Betley, and would gladly have his baby, but you could convince me that Matt Morgan, not Ryan, should be on the first team. 2) Perhaps this is just the hopelessly biased Penn fan in me, but I think that Caleb Wood MUST be at least HM. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
03-04-18 03:49 PM - Post#250787
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Caleb is on there. I think Miles Wright is another league senior who could sneak in there as well. |
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whitakk Masters Student Posts 523 |
03-05-18 10:53 AM - Post#250882
Here's our picks: http://www.nycbuckets.com/2018/03/ivy-league-se aso... |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
03-05-18 11:01 AM - Post#250886
y no betley? Seems weird for co-champ Penn to get one player on all ivy team for that essentially ran away and hid from 3rd and 4th place. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
03-05-18 11:03 AM - Post#250888
Essentially, they gave all the credit for Penn's shared title to Donahue. Very little to the players. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-05-18 11:19 AM - Post#250893
I think Betley/Morgan will be the battle here for 1st team/2nd team (maybe they both make it if there's a tie like last year). Adding Betley to the top two teams means that someone has to come off from what Kevin posted (again, assuming no ties). I'd wager the odd man out would be Mike Smith. Otherwise, Kevin's thoughts at NY Buckets match almost exactly what I posted. This seems to be an easy year to figure out, which is strange because the teams were closer together top-to-bottom than I can remember, so you'd figure there'd be a lot more variance in thoughts about the awards. As others have stated, I do hope that the HM list includes some seniors that had really nice years, including those previously mentioned (Foreman, Bell, Wood and Wright) along with one I haven't seen mentioned: Taylor Johnson. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
03-05-18 11:27 AM - Post#250895
Caleb Wood scored over 10 ppg in only 19 minutes (and a comparable 11.7 in 22 minutes in league play). That's pretty incredible. So was his 70% shooting from 2, which reflects what a great weapon he was. I don't think the Quakers are where they are without him and he will be the toughest senior to replace next year. But Wood should receive some sort of award. |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
03-05-18 11:35 AM - Post#250899
I don't have a big opinion on 1st team v 2nd team, Mike. I was reacting to Betley being left off 2nd team. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-05-18 11:37 AM - Post#250900
It's funny because a lot of conferences have a sixth-man of the year award, which I'd have to assume Caleb would win easy. Question is whether coaches will reward someone that played about half of his team's minutes. I'm doubtful, but we'll see. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
03-05-18 01:14 PM - Post#250906
Why no love for Trey Phills (who I actually had as a first teamer)? If it is only for the conference season, he should be on the list somewhere. 23.3 PER in conference, high win shares, high ORAT. Best defender on the team. What is the argument for leaving him off? I don’t see how Oni goes ahead of him in conference just looking at his own team, and it doesn’t seem like anybody from Princeton should be ahead of him when they have worse numbers AND lost a lot more games. |
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whitakk Masters Student Posts 523 |
03-05-18 01:53 PM - Post#250910
Penn won the title because it had the best third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh men in the league. I don't like the "quota" approach to all-league awards (even if that's how it often works in practice). That said, Betley is plenty deserving and I expect he'll make the coaches' list. (First-team seems a bit rich to me but not indefensible.) Good catch on Phills, we should have had him HM. He's a case where I don't think you can fully rely on stats -- he got a lot of his points by drawing the worst defender when Oni/Copeland got more attention -- but he does have a case. FWIW while I weight conference play more heavily I do consider non-league play too. (not that it makes a huge difference this year). |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
03-05-18 02:05 PM - Post#250914
It's the old debate whether it's a most valuable player competition or most outstanding player competition. If you lean MVP criteria, as I do, you go with players from the best teams unless there are numbers that are outliers statistically. There are only 3 teams in my opinion that should have players on the first team and most of the second team. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
03-05-18 02:10 PM - Post#250916
Yeah, Betley has to be somewhere there. Hard to see how you have 2 Princeton guys and only 1 Penn guy. I'd probably kick Cannady off. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
03-05-18 04:36 PM - Post#250949
Yes, I actually went with Bell (the senior) on my list and kicked both Cannady and Stephens off! Suspect all 3 will be at least HM. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
03-05-18 04:41 PM - Post#250953
I've seen quite a few Princeton games and Stephens has impressed me the most this year. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
03-05-18 04:45 PM - Post#250955
That’s because he is the most impressive. I downgrade him based on the same bias that got me into trouble talking about Evan Boudreaux— when things go awry, I tend to give disproportionate blame to the best players. Stephens is such a good two way player that it feels to me like he has failed if the team fails. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
03-05-18 04:57 PM - Post#250960
That was true the first Penn game, but in the second they seemed to devote more resources to stopping Phils than Copeland. Without success. I also think Phils draws the toughest assignment the other way, for what that’s worth. Stopping him also looks deceptively simple — every time Yale puts up a shot, I think “somebody put a body on Phils.†It must be easier said than done, because he just keeps flying in there. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3050 |
03-05-18 05:50 PM - Post#250970
POY: Seth Towns (AJ Brodeur runner-up) DPOY: Justin Bassey (AJ Brodeur and Chris Lewis runner-up) Coach of the Year: Steve Donahue (Brian Earl runner-up, but certainly James Jones did a great job) ROY: Desmond Cambridge Sixth Man: Caleb Wood (T-Choh and Stefanini were pretty good, as well) Most improved: Christian Juzang (Darnell Foreman runner-up) 1st team - Towns, Brodeur, Lewis, Morgan and Betley 2nd team - Gettings, Oni, Cannady, Cambridge and Smith Hon Mention - Stephens, Anderson, Juzang, Foreman, Adlesh, Wright All-Rookie: Cambridge, Julian, Atkinson, Choh, Stefanini ________________ Women's POY: Alarie (Princeton) DPOY: Simpson (Yale) COY: Kocalanes (Dartmouth) Sixth Person: Skinner (Harvard) Most Improved: Lippold (Dartmouth) 1st team: Alarie, Zimmerman (Columbia), Nwokedi (Penn), Letkiewicz (Dartmouth), and Benzan (Harvard) 2nd team: Parker (Penn), Robinson (Princeton), Berkowitz (Yale), Simpson (Yale), and Gaziano (Brown) Honorable Mention: Widmann (Cornell), Skinner, Mehta (Brown), Ross (Penn), Barahman (Yale), Lippold (Dartmouth) All-Rookie: Parker, Bush (Harvard), Littlefield (Princeton), Leonidas (Brown), Meyers (Princeton) |
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tkapiko Freshman Posts 28 |
03-05-18 06:06 PM - Post#250977
I agree. Phills should be on one of the teams, but not ahead of Oni. I think their roles on the offensive and defensive ends balance out because Oni draws the best defender on opposing teams while Phills take on the best offensive player. Oni leads the team in ppg, rpg, apg, both overall and in conference play. I love when they both run the floor; they are elite athletes. I think Oni made everybody better, including Phills and the freshmen Atkinson and Swain, dishing them assists. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3584 |
03-05-18 06:40 PM - Post#250983
Oni is one of the best 2 way players in the league, there really are only 1-2 other guys in his category in my opinion. |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
03-05-18 09:16 PM - Post#251006
I would be very surprised if Morgan is not 1st team. Thought that he might be in the top three for POY - possibly #2. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3584 |
03-05-18 09:24 PM - Post#251008
I like Towns, Brodeur and Lewis, maybe Oni as POY candidates. There isn't another player who impacts their team on both ends like those guys do. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
03-06-18 09:14 AM - Post#251032
A couple of issues with Oni. One is the sub 100 ORAT. The other is the scoring inconsistency (they may relate). There are just too many games where he doesn’t score, and the team tends to lose those games. |
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JadwinGeorge Senior Posts 357 |
03-06-18 10:05 AM - Post#251037
First Team: Lewis, Brodeur, Towns, Morgan, Stephens. Tigers' collapse not his fault. POY: Brodeur DPOY: Lewis ROY: Cambridge (easiest choice of all) COY: Donohue (pretty easy as well) |
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Columbia Alum Junior Posts 247 |
03-06-18 10:27 AM - Post#251041
Matt Morgan should be player of the year, no question he was the best player in the league, regardless of how badly his team performed, this is not a team award, and how a team does as a whole influences the award too much. Lewis or AJ should be DPOY. First team: Lewis, Towns, AJ, Morgan, Oni, Betley Second Team: Smith, Anderson, Stephens, Gettings, Copeland HM: Cambridge, Cannady, Wright, Meisner, Foreman ROY: Anderson COY: Donahue or Jones |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-06-18 10:36 AM - Post#251042
My final guesses (think the official awards will be out today): POY - Towns DPOY - Bell ROY - Cambridge COY - Donahue 1st Team *Towns *Brodeur *Lewis *Morgan Oni 2nd Team/HM Betley Gettings Cambridge Cannady Stephens Smith Phills Foreman Bassey |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1145 |
03-06-18 11:18 AM - Post#251045
Women's COY: Kocalanes (Dartmouth) While the Dartmouth women showed great improvement this season, and also had arguably the best OOC results of any Dartmouth basketball team in recent memory, I'm still not convinced that Koclanes will be able to return us to the glory days when Dartmouth routinely competed for the championship. Its really hard to shake the interview she gave last year to the Valley News when she (in essence) said that winning a championship is extremely difficult. While she's not necessarily wrong, coaches like Teevens routinely say that winning a championship is the goal and I know that he feels bad when we come up short--even if we took second. I don't get that same vibe from Koclanes... |
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Old Bear Postdoc Posts 3992 |
03-06-18 11:27 AM - Post#251048
I trust you meant Cambridge for ROY, Anderson is a Soph. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3584 |
03-06-18 11:58 AM - Post#251055
Morgan is not a great defender, though he is the best scorer and a great distributor. Towns has more of an impact on both ends than Morgan. So does AJ and Lewis for that matter. Defense matters for POY |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1145 |
03-06-18 12:02 PM - Post#251056
Women's COY: Kocalanes (Dartmouth) While the Dartmouth women showed great improvement this season, and also had arguably the best OOC results of any Dartmouth basketball team in recent memory, I'm still not convinced that Koclanes will be able to return us to the glory days when Dartmouth routinely competed for the championship. Its really hard to shake the interview she gave last year to the Valley News when she (in essence) said that winning a championship is extremely difficult. While she's not necessarily wrong, coaches like Teevens routinely say that winning a championship is the goal and I know that he feels bad when we come up short--even if we took second. I don't get that same vibe from Koclanes... I also should have mentioned that the optics would look bad if Koclanes gets COY. Is taking Dartmouth to a whooping fifth place finish such a Herculean accomplishment warranting an award?  |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
03-06-18 01:06 PM - Post#251066
Last year, I seemed to make some enemies arguing that Evan Boudreaux shouldn’t be in the POY conversation, and was far from a lock for first team. However, there were individual statistical arguments against him — low ORAT, box score +/- said team played better with him off the floor, etc. For Morgan, none of that is true. High counting stats, high ORAT, box score +/- shows team is much better when he is on the floor, etc. He’s just a beast on offense. And no turnovers despite the high usage rate and having to carry the team. Amazing. So for Morgan, i’m really reduced to the simple argument that the team went 6-8. I think that is a non-starter for POY (hasn’t happened since early 80s that a sub .500 team in conference produced the POY. So I don’t think it will happen now, and I don’t think it should. But if ever there was a time for it, Morgan would be the guy. |
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Columbia Alum Junior Posts 247 |
03-06-18 01:34 PM - Post#251078
meant Cambridge ROY, hands down |
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Columbia Alum Junior Posts 247 |
03-06-18 01:42 PM - Post#251082
Yes Morgan's is not a top class defender, but not a terrible defender either. Frankly his offensive game, considering usage, efficiency and impact is head, shoulders and feet above anyone else in the league. This makes his overall impact and contribution bigger than towns, lewis, brodeur or anyone else with a much better supporting cast. You can argue the others are more balanced on both ends of the court, but that is because morgan is so damn good on offense. Cornell is 6-8, but I have no doubt they would be 0-14 or at best 1-13 without him. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
03-06-18 01:47 PM - Post#251084
Towns is, without question, the best player in the league. Morgan is talented, but not in the same stratosphere. I would say Stephens is second best. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-06-18 04:01 PM - Post#251101
Just released: PLAYER OF THE YEAR Seth Towns, Harvard (So., F – Columbus, Ohio) ROOKIE OF THE YEAR *Desmond Cambridge, Brown (Fr., G – Nashville, Tenn.) DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR Amir Bell, Princeton (Sr., G – East Brunswick, N.J.) COACH OF THE YEAR Steve Donahue, Penn FIRST TEAM ALL-IVY *AJ Brodeur, Penn (So., F – Northborough, Mass.) *Matt Morgan, Cornell (Jr., G – Concord, N.C.) *Miye Oni, Yale (So., G – Porter Ranch, Calif.) *Seth Towns, Harvard (So., F – Columbus, Ohio) Chris Lewis, Harvard (So,. F/C – Alpharetta, Ga.) SECOND TEAM ALL-IVY^ Stone Gettings, Cornell (Jr., F – Malibu, Calif.) Myles Stephens, Princeton (Jr., F – Lawrenceville, N.J.) Ryan Betley, Penn (So., G – Downingtown, Pa.) Mike Smith, Columbia (So., G – Burr Ridge, Ill.) Desmond Cambridge, Brown (Fr., G – Nashville, Tenn.) Devin Cannady, Princeton (Jr., G – Mishawaka, Ind.) Trey Phills, Yale (Jr., G – Charlotte, N.C.) HONORABLE MENTION Darnell Foreman, Penn (Sr., G – Camden, N.J.) Justin Bassey, Harvard (So., G – Denver, Colo.) |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32803 |
03-06-18 04:08 PM - Post#251102
Hard to argue with....they should have a 6th man award, though. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
03-06-18 04:21 PM - Post#251103
Looks to me like somebody cheated on their picks. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-06-18 04:36 PM - Post#251104
What you just heard from my opponent is an attack on my integrity and my character. And I will not reply in kind. Instead, I will take those remarks and tuck them away, away in a tiny "lock-box," where all bad thoughts go. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2691 |
03-06-18 04:47 PM - Post#251105
Good selections, although I think Lewis is a game crayon defense, more so than any other player in the league. He’ll get it next year. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3584 |
03-06-18 04:47 PM - Post#251106
What you just heard from my opponent is an attack on my integrity and my character. And I will not reply in kind. Instead, I will take those remarks and tuck them away, away in a tiny "lock-box," where all bad thoughts go. I have to admit it is quite curious you originally listed Chris Lewis as DPOY and in your "final" picks you switched, almost magically, to Amir Bell. That's gonna bring out the conspiracy theorists...... I do find it interesting that Chris Lewis was the only non unanimous 1st teamer. Who in the world didn't think he was first team? |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-06-18 04:56 PM - Post#251107
HA! No that quote is a joke - it's from the SNL Bush-Gore debates... which was peak SNL. If you don't remember Darrell Hammond doing Al Gore, it was simply amazing. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-06-18 04:58 PM - Post#251108
But seriously... Amir Bell as DPOY. Biggest question I have: is he the DPOY... on Princeton? It's really close. I like Stephens more, but it's close. |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
03-06-18 04:59 PM - Post#251109
You should remember but tuck them away -- high road is always better than the low road. I thought that your picks made very good sense when first released. |
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1171 |
03-06-18 05:01 PM - Post#251110
HA! No that quote is a joke - it's from the SNL Bush-Gore debates... which was peak SNL. If you don't remember Darrell Hammond doing Al Gore, it was simply amazing. Au contraire, mon frere. Peak SNL was Dan Aykroyd as Jimmy Carter talking down a possible drug overdose. "Do you have any Allman Brothers?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-68iTvhWNB0 |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
03-06-18 05:18 PM - Post#251111
Some of the coaches seem to have gotten struck with a sudden case of Bell's Palsy. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-06-18 05:36 PM - Post#251114
I *never* should have started a "peak SNL" debate. I just loved that 2000s era though because it could consistently make it to Weekend Update with gold material, which was no small feat. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3584 |
03-06-18 05:43 PM - Post#251116
Amir Bell is a big surprise, especially coming from such a mediocre defensive team. I am shocked the DPOY wasn't from one of the two best defenses in the league, which is the main reason they are also the two best teams in the league by a large margin. Shocked. Bassey, Lewis, Brodeur, any of those I would have picked before Bell. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-06-18 05:47 PM - Post#251117
Problem was... only one of those was an option to pick. |
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1171 |
03-06-18 05:47 PM - Post#251118
I *never* should have started a "peak SNL" debate. I just loved that 2000s era though because it could consistently make it to Weekend Update with gold material, which was no small feat. Touchy subject, Mike. Tread lightly. |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3770 |
03-06-18 05:58 PM - Post#251119
Darrell Hammond as Bill Clinton, doing a review on Weekend Update of The American President, is one of my all time favorites. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
03-06-18 06:11 PM - Post#251123
It's hard to argue with the 1970s SNL. Such a talented cast. Gilda Radner doing Roseann Roseannadanna on Weekend Update never got old. Man, was that hysterical. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3584 |
03-06-18 06:39 PM - Post#251126
It's hard to argue with the 1970s SNL. Such a talented cast. Gilda Radner doing Roseann Roseannadanna on Weekend Update never got old. Man, was that hysterical. And there was no ILT back then when the Quakers were in the Final Four! |
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QHoops Senior Posts 368 |
03-06-18 07:43 PM - Post#251131
Lorne Michaels says that by far the dominant subject people stop him to talk about is their opinion on which era of SNL is best. He says people almost always tell him it is whichever time period coincided when they were something like 18-20. Which I can confirm, since obviously the late 70's SNL was best. |
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whitakk Masters Student Posts 523 |
03-06-18 07:56 PM - Post#251133
But seriously... Amir Bell as DPOY. Biggest question I have: is he the DPOY... on Princeton? It's really close. I like Stephens more, but it's close. In the couple games I watched for defense closely I did actually think Bell had a bit more impact. I still took Stephens for the season based on history / on-off splits / reputation but maybe that was a bit lazy. Anyway it's a weird outcome. Bell/Stephens weren't the reason Princeton's defense was bad this year, but I think you need a really good case to pick someone from a below-average defense when isolating individual contributions is so hard. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4910 |
03-07-18 01:35 PM - Post#251217
I'm happy for Bell, who brought it every night on D and made life very difficult for his man, but Lewis seemed like more of an eraser. Maybe foul propensity was a factor. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-07-18 01:45 PM - Post#251224
Lewis not being on the ballot was a big factor... |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
03-07-18 01:48 PM - Post#251227
Assume from your prior comment that AJ wasn’t either. Who from penn? Foreman? Either that or Harvard managed to put somebody besides Lewis and Bassey up, which seems hard to believe. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2691 |
03-07-18 01:51 PM - Post#251228
Based on Mike's prior posts, I'd assume that Coach Amaker proposed Justin Bassey for DOP. Maybe because Chris Lewis was being considered for POY. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
03-07-18 01:53 PM - Post#251231
Lewis not being on the ballot was a big factor... So how this work? You're not allowed to nominate a player for more than a certain number of categories? |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-07-18 01:54 PM - Post#251233
Penn was Foreman, Harvard was Bassey. Along with Bell, two other teams put up candidates. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3584 |
03-07-18 01:56 PM - Post#251234
As I have mentioned, coaches vote for whom each coach nominates and lobby's for. If Lewis wasn't on the ballot it's because Amaker didn't nominate him. In order to get any post season award, you have to win over your own coach first. And in some cases, coaches have to pick whom they will nominate. Amaker may well have chosen Bassey as his nominee for POY. And it could have been that Donahue pushed Brodeur and the two of them split votes such that Amir Bell won. It could be there was a majority for Bell, which seems less likely, but I don't know. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-07-18 01:57 PM - Post#251235
I don't believe there are any restrictions like that on who you can put up, except that each team puts up one (or none). I can see why Harvard put up Bassey over Lewis, though either would have been a great candidate. For Penn, if anyone, I would have expected Max or Woods over AJ before Foreman. So, I'm not exactly sure what Penn was doing other than maybe trying to honor a senior? |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3584 |
03-07-18 01:58 PM - Post#251236
Lewis not being on the ballot was a big factor... So how this work? You're not allowed to nominate a player for more than a certain number of categories? I don't know the specifics, but practically if Amaker nominates both Lewis and Bassey, they would share the vote from other coaches and neither would get it. He has to pick one to push. It could be, as MJ points out, that coaches nominate the wrong guy. If SD nominated Max or Antonio, instead of AJ, coaches may well have picked Bell over those choices. Or AJ/Bassey could have stolen votes from each other and Bell ended up sneaking in. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2691 |
03-07-18 01:58 PM - Post#251238
Thanks for the confirmation. Hard to get votes if your own coach doesn't nominate you. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
03-07-18 02:00 PM - Post#251239
Interesting. Not sure the correct outcome resulted here, though. That's a strange pick as the best defensive player for the whole league. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-07-18 02:04 PM - Post#251242
Yeah, it definitely wasn't the right outcome generally. Given the options, though, you could see how you'd end up there... |
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whitakk Masters Student Posts 523 |
03-07-18 02:05 PM - Post#251244
I don't believe there are any restrictions like that on who you can put up, except that each team puts up one (or none). I can see why Harvard put up Bassey over Lewis, though either would have been a great candidate. For Penn, if anyone, I would have expected Max or Woods over AJ before Foreman. So, I'm not exactly sure what Penn was doing other than maybe trying to honor a senior? Donahue has talked up Foreman's defense a lot this season. (I think I recall one quote about him being one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, maybe the best, but I can't find it now.) Being a senior might have pushed him over the top but I think it's a belief they truly hold. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3584 |
03-07-18 02:06 PM - Post#251245
I would think the most likely occurrence is that AJ/Bassey split votes to allow Bell to win. If SD put up anyone else, Bassey would have easily won I would think. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21193 |
03-07-18 02:09 PM - Post#251246
For the first part of the year Foreman was very good at everything not involving shooting the actual ball. Then as the year progressed he got better and more efficient in that area as well. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-07-18 02:11 PM - Post#251248
AJ wasn't on the ballot. Was Foreman for Penn. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3584 |
03-07-18 02:15 PM - Post#251250
Then I am surprised Bell won and not Bassey. Tells me Bassey and Foreman split the vote allowing Bell to take it. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8220 
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03-07-18 02:47 PM - Post#251258
Dies anyone really think they got it wrong this year overall? |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3050 |
03-07-18 03:20 PM - Post#251268
Women's All-Ivy was released early this afternoon http://ivyleaguesports.com/news/2018/3/7/womens- ba... Player of the Year: Bella Alarie (Princeton) Defensive Player of the Year: Tamara Simpson (Yale) - second straight year winning this award Rookie of the Year: Eleah Parker (Penn) - unanimous selection Coach of the Year: Courtney Banghart (Princeton) First Team (Expanded due to ties in voting): Bella Alarie (Princeton) Katie Benzan (Harvard) - unanimous selection Jen Berkowitz (Yale) Michelle Nwokedi (Penn) Leslie Robinson (Princeton) Camille Zimmerman (Columbia) Second Team (Expanded due to ties in voting): Jeannie Boehm (Harvard) Kate Letkiewicz (Dartmouth) Shayna Mehta (Brown) Eleah Parker (Penn) Taylor Rooks (Harvard) Anna Ross (Penn) Tamara Simpson (Yale) Honorable Mention: Justine Gaziano (Brown) Roxy Barahman (Yale) _____________________ Not much to argue with that expanded list. I understand why Courtney Banghart won the Coach of the Year Award, but I'm disappointed that Coach Koclanes or Coach Guth did not win it. Princeton brought a very good team into the season, and although picked as the #2 team, it was only by nine points over Penn. She also had two of the league's best players and a very good recruiting class. Coach Koclanes took a team that finished 3-11 (8-19) to 7-7 (15-12) with wins over Vermont, BC, New Hampshire, Colorado (road), Holy Cross (road), Harvard and Yale (road). Her team was picked a distant 8th this year and she managed to exceed expectations while giving the reigns to a junior point guard with limited experience. Coach Guth's team finished in 6th place last year, but finished the season strong. They were also the only team to beat Penn last year. This year, they did return Berkowitz and Simpson, but they had to incorporate a number of inexperienced sophomores and first-years. They had good wins over TCU (road), Princeton and Harvard, while almost beating Kansas and Indiana. They ended the year as the #4 team in the Tournament. While Brown's surprising collapsed following Taylor Will's injury may have given new life to Yale and Dartmouth, both coaches did a lot with more limited rosters than the Tigers. Last year Sarah Behn exceeded expectations with a inexperienced Bears' team, but Mike McLaughlin won the award. It seems really difficult for the other 5 coaches to break into the top 3 in terms of records and recognition. I actually made a mistake in my list and should have placed Taylor Rooks as a 2nd team member. I was surprised to see Jeannie Boehm as a second team member. She is a very good player and her recovery from a knee injury late in the Penn game was a big part of their subsequent sweep of Penn & Princeton a few weeks later. I just thought that Rooks was the better and more consistent front court player and I thought Sydney Skinner would get more support. I also thought that Justine Gaziano was ahead of Shayna Mehta. Both are big time scorers, but Mehta's efficiency suffered after Taylor Will suffered her season ending knee injury. In the end, all were deserving recipients and there were even a few more good players who did not make it onto the list. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
03-08-18 12:56 AM - Post#251349
I don’t think there is any question that the staff thinks Foreman is the best perimeter defender on the team — he takes the best perimeter offensive player most of the time. Woods is stronger and thicker, so he can handle Towns (sort of), while Foreman can’t, but conversely you almost never see Woods guard the point, presumably because Foreman is better able to handle quickness. I also th8nk, particularly as the season went on, the eye test favors Foreman defensively as well. So for me, Brodeur would have been first choice for DPOY from Penn, and Foreman 2nd. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3584 |
03-08-18 02:17 AM - Post#251351
The Penn coaches are telling us Foreman is their best defensive player. I would be willing to bet Brodeur isn’t their second pick either. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2137 |
03-08-18 10:27 AM - Post#251362
From what I've seen, Brodeur is the team's best interior help defender. That's how he's gotten a majority of his blocked shots. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6404 |
03-08-18 09:29 PM - Post#251467
Yes, I think this running debate between PF10 and me is at its core a debate about what makes a great defender. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3584 |
03-09-18 12:38 AM - Post#251476
That may well be, but we can agree that Darnell Foreman and AJ are very different defenders and both very good (since the coaches nominated Foreman for DPOY). Add Max and Antonio, who also have different skill sets and are great defenders, and you have a solid defensive team. So we aren't really arguing that Foreman or AJ are not great defenders are we? Foreman can do things as an onball defender that AJ can't do and AJ can do things (rim protection) Foreman doesn't do. Similarly Max is different from AJ, not necessarily better or worse, different. I value the versatility Max and Antonio bring being able to guard 4-5 positions on the floor, and then I value rim protection. You value rim protection over all. Nothing wrong with that. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2137 |
03-09-18 02:57 PM - Post#251564
I absolutely agree with you. I wasn't trying to make any sort of value judgment about the players' individual skills; the team needs all of those guys to bring what they do to the table in order for the defense to be successful. |
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