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91Quake PhD Student Posts 1126 |
03-11-18 04:29 PM - Post#252010
ESPN, CBS, and SI all have Penn as a 15 seed. I guess we find out in 90 mins. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8263 
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03-11-18 05:17 PM - Post#252027
We knew going in we would be a 15. Choose 1: Detroit, Pittsburgh, Nashville, Charlotte |
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91Quake PhD Student Posts 1126 |
03-11-18 06:24 PM - Post#252061
Not Nashville and not playing Cincy. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001 
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03-11-18 06:27 PM - Post#252064
Lunardi wrong, he had us against Purdue in Detroit. |
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91Quake PhD Student Posts 1126 |
03-11-18 06:28 PM - Post#252065
Not Pittsburgh either. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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03-11-18 06:29 PM - Post#252066
Have all four games in Pittsburgh been announced? |
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91Quake PhD Student Posts 1126 |
03-11-18 06:29 PM - Post#252067
Yes |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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03-11-18 06:32 PM - Post#252069
So much for the 15 seed lock. |
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91Quake PhD Student Posts 1126 |
03-11-18 06:32 PM - Post#252070
And we're a 16 seed playing Kansas in Wichita. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
03-11-18 06:33 PM - Post#252071
Brutal draw. Not that a 15 seed would've mattered that much. But Kansas at what's essentially a home game for them? Ugh. |
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91Quake PhD Student Posts 1126 |
03-11-18 06:33 PM - Post#252072
Thursday game. |
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dperry Postdoc Posts 2214
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03-11-18 06:34 PM - Post#252075
Brutal draw. Not that a 15 seed would've mattered that much. But Kansas at what's essentially a home game? Ugh. Forget it, Line, it's selection town 
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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03-11-18 06:35 PM - Post#252077
Also, Pittsburgh games were NOT finished. We could have been playing Duke there as the 15 in this region. |
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GIQUAKER Junior Posts 211 |
03-11-18 06:35 PM - Post#252078
How do you reward a team that's been doing things right in this era of corruption? Underseeding them and sending them to home game with Kansas? Good work NCAA! |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
03-11-18 06:40 PM - Post#252081
Wow. If we were getting a 16 anyway, might as well be in the play in and get a win. Fun to play a #1 though. Got that 1 in a thousand chance to be the 16 that knocks one off. Now that would be a memory. |
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91Quake PhD Student Posts 1126 |
03-11-18 06:40 PM - Post#252083
Sorry but I did not realize that Pittsburgh hosted both Midwest AND East bracket games. Boy, the NCAA really does everything they can to favor the power conferences don't they? |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2140 |
03-11-18 06:42 PM - Post#252084
Kansas is beatable. If Auzubuike is injured and can't play, they don't have much of an interior defensive presence. They aren't very deep, and they take a lot of three point shots. We have the #2 or #3 rated defense against the three point shot, nationally. We could surprise some people. I also think we deserved better than a 16 seed. |
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GIQUAKER Junior Posts 211 |
03-11-18 06:44 PM - Post#252086
NCAA is corrupt. I am hoping the FBI probe exposes more of the garbage. In the meantime go Quakers! Beat the professional athletes! |
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caughtinasnare Senior Posts 362 |
03-11-18 06:44 PM - Post#252087
I just wanna know when we're playing that day so I can start booking my flight/hotel... |
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dperry Postdoc Posts 2214
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03-11-18 06:44 PM - Post#252088
Sorry but I did not realize that Pittsburgh hosted both Midwest AND East bracket games. Boy, the NCAA really does everything they can to favor the power conferences don't they? To put it politely, the names of the regions haven't had any connection to geographic reality for some time now.
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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03-11-18 06:46 PM - Post#252090
My theory: with our game played today, the committee’s mockups had Harvard listed as a 16-seed all weekend because they were the #1 seed in the Ivies, and they just wrote our name over theirs when we won. |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
03-11-18 06:48 PM - Post#252093
i mean while intellectually I'm offended that we're seeded behind friggin Lipscomb, ultimately this is all part of the long tail in terms of likelihood of upset. and given that, might as well be the first 16 team to win. 15 seeds winning is child's play. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-11-18 06:50 PM - Post#252094
I’d like to see a list of all 24-8 16 seeds. |
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Big R&B Truth Masters Student Posts 427 
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03-11-18 06:59 PM - Post#252098
Lipscomb is playing UNC in North Carolina. This seems no different than playing Kansas in Kansas. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-11-18 07:00 PM - Post#252099
Except that we’ve actually beaten UNC in Carolina before. 
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Streamers Professor Posts 8263
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03-11-18 07:07 PM - Post#252104
I’m beyond surprised. Just about everyone out there and all of us had Penn at 15. I’m with SG. I’d rather have a playin. It’s small consolation that KU is the least of the one seeds but they have a good coach who will have them ready. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2140 |
03-11-18 07:08 PM - Post#252105
My theory: with our game played today, the committee’s mockups had Harvard listed as a 16-seed all weekend because they were the #1 seed in the Ivies, and they just wrote our name over theirs when we won. That sounds like the most plausible explanation for our seeding. Even so, had Harvard beaten us, I would have insisted they deserved better than a 16 seed, too. |
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Jay O Masters Student Posts 547 |
03-11-18 07:10 PM - Post#252106
Kansas plays Selfish ball |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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03-11-18 07:10 PM - Post#252107
I’m more convinced having listened to the committee chair’s lame as hell explanation for screwing over MTSU & St. Mary’s, which Andy Glockner is quite rightly roasting on Twitter. |
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91Quake PhD Student Posts 1126 |
03-11-18 07:13 PM - Post#252108
Yep. MTSU and St. Mary's got the royal screwing this year. Bill Self on the selection show. Knows Steve, blah blah blah. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2140 |
03-11-18 07:14 PM - Post#252109
I’m more convinced having listened to the committee chair’s lame as hell explanation for screwing over MTSU & St. Mary’s, which Andy Glockner is quite rightly roasting on Twitter. I'm surprised MTSU and St. Mary's were left out, too. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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03-11-18 07:17 PM - Post#252111
These are not very smart people. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8263
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03-11-18 07:19 PM - Post#252112
Self can coach. We won’t sneak up on him. Harvard must be thinking the NIT not so bad. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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03-11-18 07:22 PM - Post#252114
Andy noting that they don’t even have us as the best 16 seed. We were literally within inches of being sent to Dayton. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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03-11-18 07:26 PM - Post#252116
This is yet another reason to kill the tournament, since it’s clearly not raising the league’s profile with the powers-that-be in any way nationally. Instead we seem to be getting penalized for playing it. |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3619 
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03-11-18 07:40 PM - Post#252119
My theory: with our game played today, the committee’s mockups had Harvard listed as a 16-seed all weekend because they were the #1 seed in the Ivies, and they just wrote our name over theirs when we won. That sounds like the most plausible explanation for our seeding. Even so, had Harvard beaten us, I would have insisted they deserved better than a 16 seed, too. Wow... 16 is a TOTAL hose job and makes no sense considering who we see as 15’s. I had the exact same thought and clearly they just scratched out Harvard and plugged in Penn. No surprised here that committee is so lame and lazy and seems like we need to reconsider scheduling... |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3619
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03-11-18 07:40 PM - Post#252120
Oh and that said, still excited as hell to be there and will be fun to play Kansas anyway! |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32846 |
03-11-18 07:44 PM - Post#252122
Man, is this disappointing. Not only is it a 20 hour drive, there are no flights which make any sense that aren't close to $1000. And this is a result not of having a tournament, but having it on Selection Sunday. By that time, they have done most of the work and are not going to re-seed teams because of an Ivy. We must move the tournament up a week. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32846 |
03-11-18 07:46 PM - Post#252124
We should also re-evaluate our tiebreaker. A better team beats all the bad teams---a team that loses to a 6th place club should be seeded behind the team that loses to the 3rd place, not the reverse. Who came up with that tiebreaker--it makes no sense. Worst loss should be the basis. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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03-11-18 07:46 PM - Post#252125
Good luck getting Princeton to change its academic calendar to accommodate this. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32846 |
03-11-18 07:50 PM - Post#252126
Still, my main gripe is the location---I thought they always strive to keep auto qualifiers in their region. I actually don't think Kansas is unbeatable. But give us a freaking chance to see the game live! |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
03-11-18 07:55 PM - Post#252127
Theory is probably right, but Harvard looks pretty clearly like a 15 too (just not quite as clearly). So if the theory is true, the league already was getting screwed. Not sure what to make of it — I think historically the league often gets over seeded a bit. |
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OldBig5 Masters Student Posts 639 |
03-11-18 07:59 PM - Post#252130
It's too bad they were not somewhere near me like Nashville or Detroit or Pittsburgh. So be it. Kansas may be about the best possible draw of the #1 and #2 seeds. They play more of a three ball game than in prior years and don't have the inside strength they usually do. Maybe they shoot poorly and Penn gets hot. I have no doubt that Harvard would have been a 14 seed if they had won. Tommy Amaker and all those great recruits. Charles Barkley rightly destroyed the committee chair on their criteria. Counting November and December games the same as those last in the year is really dumb if you want the tournament to be the best it can be. t was funny to hear the selection chair note that Oklahoma had wins over top RPI teams but then they got in over teams that had much better RPIs. |
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westcoast Senior Posts 302 |
03-11-18 08:08 PM - Post#252133
I think the committee rewards teams with stronger non-conference schedules. Penn's NC SOS was ranked #253 on KenPom, while Lipscomb was #30 and CS-Fullerton was #80. Harvard was #75, and I think they would have gotten a #15. Looking at the top teams left out, St. Mary's NC SOS was #285, Baylor at #282, Louisville at #223, and Notre Dame at #190. The Selection Committee really doesn't like that (except they left out MTSU, #13). |
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91Quake PhD Student Posts 1126 |
03-11-18 08:10 PM - Post#252134
2pm tip |
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Jay O Masters Student Posts 547 |
03-11-18 08:17 PM - Post#252135
I kind of feel bad for Kansas having to play a team with a better home arena. Sucks to be them. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-11-18 08:21 PM - Post#252139
Especially after we beat them |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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03-11-18 08:23 PM - Post#252140
A quick glance through Steve D’s resume shows me he’s only faced Kansas & Self once, when he took his last and best Cornell team (finished KenPom 69th) to Lawrence in 2010 for an early January game, which they lost to the KenPom #2 Jayhawks 71-66. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-11-18 08:28 PM - Post#252142
We got this. Trust in Stevie D!!! |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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03-11-18 08:34 PM - Post#252144
Man, is this disappointing. Not only is it a 20 hour drive, there are no flights which make any sense that aren't close to $1000. And this is a result not of having a tournament, but having it on Selection Sunday. By that time, they have done most of the work and are not going to re-seed teams because of an Ivy. We must move the tournament up a week. If you can hack a 5-hour drive, given that you’re going to have to blow Wednesday on travel to make a 1 PM CDT Thursday tip, cheapest option might be to fly to Dallas ($200 flights available from NYC area, didn’t check Philly) and rent a car. KC is only 3-hour drive, but flights aren’t as cheap. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32846 |
03-11-18 08:39 PM - Post#252146
Can't blow Wednesday unfortunately. I was hoping for a late Wednesday flight and then driving (OKC would work great), but am not seeing anything within reason so far. And my kids can't do that--and part of the plan until the selection was that we'd re-visit the days of driving to the Tournament and taking them out of school. Don't have to take them out of school, but this just isn't working. Looks like finding a place to watch on TV together, unless I feel like doing this solo. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
03-11-18 08:46 PM - Post#252150
Weirdly, their lack of inside strength might work against us, in that they might actually gameplan for AJ some. The hope in a game like this is that they wouldn’t double AJ (much like Ugonna in tournaments of long ago). Also, a non Penn friend suggested another theory (in the process of mocking me and the matchup): that the committee screwed us because the President is an alumni. |
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OldBig5 Masters Student Posts 639 |
03-11-18 08:51 PM - Post#252155
Didn't know where to post this but my grandson will be starting two year old pre-school class at Summit Country Day School in Cincy this September. Which is of course where Antonio Woods went. It's a small world. |
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Quakers03 Professor Posts 12533 |
03-11-18 09:17 PM - Post#252171
What an absolute joke. I was angry about the sixteen seed...and then I saw the Vegas lines. Which one of these doesn't belong.... Virginia -22.5 Xavier -24 Nova -25.5 Kansas -15.5 I mean...Come the hell on with that. Tell me some more about the OOC #%$@ schedule. |
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umbrellaman Masters Student Posts 476 
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03-11-18 09:17 PM - Post#252173
Play Friday at higher seeds - Final Saturday at neutral site? |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-11-18 09:59 PM - Post#252183
Right. The pristine ;-) NCAA and its bigwigs are pretty corporate and no doubt swing to the conservative side of matters.
Also, a non Penn friend suggested another theory (in the process of mocking me and the matchup): that the committee screwed us because the President is an alumni. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-11-18 10:00 PM - Post#252184
I'm still waiting for a list of all 24-8 teams that have ever been seeded 16. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-11-18 10:11 PM - Post#252192
I’m more convinced having listened to the committee chair’s lame as hell explanation for screwing over MTSU & St. Mary’s, which Andy Glockner is quite rightly roasting on Twitter. Yes, the chutzpah of the process is that the Selection Committee can always point to SOMETHING to leave schools out. But they are never consistent about what that item is, except that the end result is almost always mid-majors getting the short end of the stick. In many cases this year, the disqualifying factor appears to be NCSOS. St. Mary's is the most blatant hose job there. Except, of course, in the case of MTSU whose NCSOS is one of the best in the country. So that's the school that got jobbed the most to me. |
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Quakers03 Professor Posts 12533 |
03-11-18 10:54 PM - Post#252218
MTSU didn't even make the first 4 out, either. I'd love to know if there has EVER been a 16-1 open up as low as 15.5. Seth Davis had a fun tweet: I would never pick a 16 to beat a 1, but if ever there were a 16-seed that could pull off that miracle, it's Penn. |
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westcoast Senior Posts 302 |
03-11-18 11:04 PM - Post#252222
A quick look over the last few years... 2017: NC Central 25-8 2015: Coastal Carolina 24-9 2012: LIU 25-8 2011: Hampton 24-8 2010: Vermont 25-9 |
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LyleGold PhD Student Posts 1712 |
03-11-18 11:05 PM - Post#252223
We should also re-evaluate our tiebreaker. A better team beats all the bad teams---a team that loses to a 6th place club should be seeded behind the team that loses to the 3rd place, not the reverse. Who came up with that tiebreaker--it makes no sense. Worst loss should be the basis. I agree that the tiebreaker system is ridiculous, but you're never going to "prove" that worst loss is more important than best win. In a double round robin, all that matters is the record. Sure, we swept Columbia and Harvard split with them. Sure, we split with Yale and Harvard swept them. We also split with Harvard on the way to identical league records. We were equals in the league. Period. Maybe we should break the tie with aggregate point difference like head-to-head matchups in the knockout phase of soccer tournaments. Wins and losses don't even matter; just goal difference does. Now we're champs because we beat Harvard in the tiebreaker. The stupid tournament with its unnecessary semifinals served one purpose - it allowed us to play the tiebreaker at the Palestra instead of a neutral court. |
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Bruno PhD Student Posts 1421 |
03-11-18 11:05 PM - Post#252224
Jobbed or not (jobbed), there’s a high variance shot here that is hard to recall in another recent 16-1 matchup.
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-11-18 11:15 PM - Post#252227
Yes, the fact that the spread is "only" 15.5 should tell you something. Not only are all other 1-16 matchup spreads noticeably higher, but the Penn-Kansas spread opened lower than all of the 2-15 matchups--incredible. |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3619
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03-12-18 02:14 AM - Post#252251
Thing most personally frustrating with this seeding hose job... We could have played UNC in Los Angeles if picked for that 15 seed and I’d be watching the game in person on Friday (and I’m sure a lot of other Penn alums would be too). |
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caughtinasnare Senior Posts 362 |
03-12-18 02:59 AM - Post#252252
Well, I'm hoping that the fact that this game is in Wichita on a Thursday helps keep people away so I can sneak into Penn's fan distribution allotment as a non-donor... Thank God for my grad school schedule leaving me without classes on Wednesdays, Thursdays, or Fridays! In 2007, I had a Physics 151 midterm that started during the game. We had just taken the lead in the 2nd half when the professor made me put my phone away. Hoping for the miraculous regression to the mean of a 16 beating a 1! |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-12-18 06:59 AM - Post#252257
Is there video of the announcement of the bid? |
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Condor PhD Student Posts 1888 |
03-12-18 09:48 AM - Post#252296
I thought I would come out of hibernation for just a couple of comments. 1) Congratulations to this team. You have been very enjoyable to watch this year. It is amazing how many players contributed at various times during the season. The starting 5 + Wood are solid. Goodman earned his way back into the rotation, and others such as Silpe, Donahue, Scott, Jones, MacDonald, and Simmons had their big moments that contributed to the success of this team. 2) Congratulations to SD. You have made the whole greater than the sum of the parts. You have pressed the right buttons, made parts interchangeable, kept everyone engaged, and basically had everyone buy into the team concept. Further, you did it with great integrity. COY was well deserved. 3) Notes on Harvard: As others have voiced, it was very unfortunate to see Towns go down. Hopefully, it will not require a long recovery. He is definitely among the elite players in the league. Lewis is another special player who should improve especially if he can do something about his staying power. The return of Aiken and their big PG recruit should make this team the easy favorite for next year. Of course, Aiken still needs to learn how to make his teammates better. Hopefully, Penn will be able to fill the shoes of Foreman and Wood and compete. 4) I have enjoyed reading all the posts this year. There are always interesting perspectives. The debates/opinions of SomeGuy, PennFan10, UPIA1968, P38, Jeff2sf, TheLine, MrJames, etc. have provided the usual spirited insight on the team. 5) The NCAA Tournament: Regardless of the seed, it is great to have Penn back in the mix. We could argue about receiving the number 16 slot, but we really can’t be too disappointed. Our Yale 2 loss, the weaker league this year, and the lack of key wins probably locked us into a 16 seed. More importantly, if you look at the top 8 seeds, it is basically a choice of picking your poison. Azubuike is questionable for the game. It is just a sprain, so it just depends on how quickly he recovers and whether the Kansas coaches elect to rest him. Regardless, his replacement, De Sousa, will be tough. Given the choice, I hope they decide/need to rest Azubuike. Beyond that, let’s hope that they do not shoot their usual 25 3pt shots at 40% or better. In any case, we have nothing to lose and the tournament is due for a first round, 1-seed loss. I hope the team remains focused and never gives up. History suggests that will happen regardless of the score. With that, I can now go back into hibernation. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8263
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03-12-18 10:00 AM - Post#252306
Nice to hear from you Condor, if only this once. Have to second all of your comments, although I have my own theory about the 16 I will put on the league board. |
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Cvonvorys Postdoc Posts 4484 
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03-12-18 11:00 AM - Post#252328
Didn't put much time in it but here goes: One of the more thrilling wins to which I saw Cut through the Crimson defense just like a saw The year's been quite the journey Capped by winning the tourney Looking forward to the upset in Wichita Or: A more thrilling game? Can't remember when Time to sing, "Here's a toast to dear old Penn" Grab your glasses and raise 'em To our Quakers, we praise them Now let's go out to Wichita and win again Or maybe: That win over Harvard was so much fun Our Quaker Men's team is now second to none But how sweet will it be When on Thursday we see Our 16-seed Penn knock off number one |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2140 |
03-12-18 12:11 PM - Post#252369
I’m more convinced having listened to the committee chair’s lame as hell explanation for screwing over MTSU & St. Mary’s, which Andy Glockner is quite rightly roasting on Twitter. Yes, the chutzpah of the process is that the Selection Committee can always point to SOMETHING to leave schools out. But they are never consistent about what that item is, except that the end result is almost always mid-majors getting the short end of the stick. In many cases this year, the disqualifying factor appears to be NCSOS. St. Mary's is the most blatant hose job there. Except, of course, in the case of MTSU whose NCSOS is one of the best in the country. So that's the school that got jobbed the most to me. Mid major teams are definitely getting hosed in order to benefit lesser teams from the power conferences. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8263
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03-12-18 01:07 PM - Post#252400
Yes, the fact that the spread is "only" 15.5 should tell you something. Not only are all other 1-16 matchup spreads noticeably higher, but the Penn-Kansas spread opened lower than all of the 2-15 matchups--incredible. I'm as upset as anyone about this seeding; not only because it makes no sense for the reasons noted above (I bet the UMBC folks are just as upset, they were also hosed.) On a personal level, I hate being wrong and I had been looking forward to a fun week of planning a road trip to see Penn play an ACC team in Charlotte or Nashville. No matter how you slice it, despite our crappy OOC schedule and the blown chances to beat LaSalle and Temple (not to mention the near miss at Monmouth), we should have been a lock 15. I do not buy the theory that timing played a huge role in this and they subbed us out for Harvard. As was mentioned before, they rank the teams and an optimization program works out the brackets using this and some other constraints, including putting top 8 seeds as close to home as they can. Having practiced this trade in my past, (beginning with programming with DEC-10 in Vance hall many moons ago) I suspect that there was a conflict that had to be resolved which may have impacted the final results in an odd way. I am, however, convinced that the Committee would have stuck Harvard in much the same spot had they won. The betting lines are the Truth. Penn is down to +14 (+850 on the ML) which is as good or better than any 15 and very close to the 14s. I'd actually be slightly optimistic about an upset if I didn't have respect for Self and his ability to prepare his team for us. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-12-18 01:15 PM - Post#252402
Why be upset over the seeding? |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
03-12-18 01:25 PM - Post#252410
Colin's rule held but once at Harvard though Darnell has just one good foot |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8263
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03-12-18 01:26 PM - Post#252411
Why be upset over the seeding? I told you, I was looking forward to the possibility of a manageable road trip and the chance to play Duke or UNC. (the latter is strictly personal as my daughter is at Duke.) I looked at the S-curve. Penn was ahead of both CS Fullerton and Ga. State. While we are on the subject, why does UVA as top overall seed get UMBC and Nova get a play-in winner? Xavier, as the 4 overall, gets the winner of the worst two teams in the draw by far? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32846 |
03-12-18 01:27 PM - Post#252412
It all comes down to their big man, Axubuike, playing. He is an absolute monster of a player, who compensates for the fact that the Jayhawks' strength is our defensive strength--the 3 point shot. Listen to the analysis of the KC Star: "The opening game will be fascinating. Penn, at 127th in KenPom, is the highest-rated 16 seed in the last six seasons. The Quakers limit threes well, which matches up directly with KU's offensive strength. They also fire away from deep, making them a dangerous high-variance team — capable of losing by 40 or winning by one, depending on the shooting luck Thursday." http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12 /un... Azubuike shoots 75% from the field--reminds me of the big guy on Central Florida last year who was perfect from the field against us. If the 7 footer is not available, Kansas has to play players who are the same height as AJ and Max, and we can play an inside-outside game with them. I have not heard yet about his availability, but it is huge for our chances, IMO |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-12-18 01:36 PM - Post#252415
If I were Kansas, I'd rest him. No need to take a chance against a 16 seed. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-12-18 01:37 PM - Post#252416
Why be upset over the seeding? If you thought the Palestra was one sided this weekend, wait until you see Wichita on Sunday. That's why. Even some devoted Penn fans with a certain amount of available free time (and money) may not be able to make it out there. Interestingly enough, though, Kansas has never actually played in Wichita during Self's time there. It's about a 2 hour drive from the KU campus. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8263
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03-12-18 02:25 PM - Post#252445
I have not had a chance as yet to research KU thoroughly, but at first glance, Azubuike's availability will be a very big factor. Without him, we actually seem to matchup with them reasonably well. It will be raining 3's in Kansas. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-12-18 02:27 PM - Post#252446
Interestingly enough, though, Kansas has never actually played in Wichita during Self's time there. It's about a 2 hour drive from the KU campus. I'll bet KU has tried very hard to schedule home and homes against that solid mid-major, Wichita State, too. |
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Quakers03 Professor Posts 12533 |
03-12-18 02:58 PM - Post#252463
14 points now?? Seriously, I would LOVE to take a look at all of the 16-1 spreads over the last decade. There is no way anything is even close to this. They should be embarrassed. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8263
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03-12-18 03:12 PM - Post#252472
When was the last time a 16-seed was less than 10-1 on the money line? Maybe never. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
03-12-18 03:29 PM - Post#252479
If I were Kansas, I'd rest him. No need to take a chance against a 16 seed. Exactly. Wouldn't want anything to happen to him. |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3779 |
03-12-18 03:31 PM - Post#252480
Definitely rest him. Nothing to worry about on Thursday. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-12-18 03:38 PM - Post#252487
Pennderella > Kantsas |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3779 |
03-12-18 03:39 PM - Post#252489
I checked out the KU discussion board. Some pretty high-level conversation going on there. |
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Charlie Fog Masters Student Posts 587 |
03-12-18 03:48 PM - Post#252492
link? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32846 |
03-12-18 04:06 PM - Post#252495
https://scout.com/college/kansas/Board/ 103719/Cont... Their take on the David Perry-Jeff battle is hysterical |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-12-18 04:12 PM - Post#252498
I'm still waiting for 10Q to predict we're going to take down Kansas in Kansas. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-12-18 04:15 PM - Post#252500
I I believe .... |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32846 |
03-12-18 04:16 PM - Post#252502
We all know I was the real winner of the projection battle, predicting 20 wins and 3rd place (before Yale's injuries). Q was just being Q--that is disqualified as a real prediction. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-12-18 04:21 PM - Post#252504
What a bunch of cretinous nabobs. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-12-18 04:22 PM - Post#252505
Oh ha ha ha. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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03-12-18 04:22 PM - Post#252506
Amazing how much they can get stupefyingly wrong in just a handful of posts. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32846 |
03-12-18 04:24 PM - Post#252507
Those dotards. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-12-18 04:25 PM - Post#252508
I think my brain just shrunk by 20% skimming through that board. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-12-18 04:35 PM - Post#252511
I should of known better. |
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Quakers03 Professor Posts 12533 |
03-12-18 04:41 PM - Post#252515
I I believe .... For the record, the 10 Harvard students started doing this chant late in the game. They weren't winning at the time, so it's not quite a jinx, but it seemed odd. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-12-18 05:06 PM - Post#252526
At least as of mid-morning, the spread for the 3-14 game in Penn's bracket was 14.5. I am willing to bet (no idea on the spread) that we've never had a 1-16 game with a lower spread than the 2-15 and 3-14 games in its bracket (or any bracket, for that matter). My guess, however, is if they say KU's Godzilla plays, that spread will go up by a few. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8263
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03-12-18 05:22 PM - Post#252532
Vegas has it at 14 with ‘Doke’ listed as probable. I’m still researching whether there has ever been a 16 seed less than 10-1 on the money line. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32846 |
03-12-18 05:28 PM - Post#252535
And Here We Go https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/12/sports/mar ch-ma... (look at Upset No. 6) |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-12-18 05:30 PM - Post#252537
Just great. Now Kansas will win by 60. Loyola, by the way, is the best team no-one has heard of. I would have picked them to give Miami a very tough time even before this article. |
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Quakers03 Professor Posts 12533 |
03-12-18 05:40 PM - Post#252545
We're going to get more publicity out of this joke seed than we ever could have hoped for unless we won. That's a great lead picture. At some point I'd love an explanation, but we know one will not be forthcoming. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-12-18 05:56 PM - Post#252553
FWIW, Schonbrun is a Columbia grad (graduate degree). |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
03-12-18 05:57 PM - Post#252554
https://scout.com/college/kansas/Board/ 103719/Cont... Their take on the David Perry-Jeff battle is hysterical Which page? I only got thru page 1 so far. Learned KSTHANE must work in finance with a Wharton guy. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-12-18 06:06 PM - Post#252558
Wait 'til you see them talk about how they think we play. In their version of Penn basketball, we are slow, spend all of our shots launching threes, and only have good 3 point defense because we didn't play any good teams. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-12-18 06:18 PM - Post#252562
Why didn’t Amaker call any time outs during the 26-2 run? The announcers said we would be a 13, maybe 14 seed. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
03-12-18 06:19 PM - Post#252563
They sure talk about KenPom a lot. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-12-18 06:19 PM - Post#252564
Well, a time out was called in the middle but its name was halftime. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-12-18 06:24 PM - Post#252567
A full time out |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-12-18 08:08 PM - Post#252581
That foul called when Betley got trapped was VERY fortunate. Just finished watching the replay. |
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LyleGold PhD Student Posts 1712 |
03-12-18 08:16 PM - Post#252585
That foul called when Betley got trapped was VERY fortunate. Just finished watching the replay. Yes, I have been thinking about that play a lot. When it happened, it seemed just like the inbounds play to Darnell with 3 secs. to go at Yale. From my view across the court, I couldn't see anything. Having reviewed the game and that play in particular several times, we got away with one. Fortunately, a foul call couldn't be reversed. Out of bounds plays can. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-12-18 08:38 PM - Post#252591
The replay doesn't make clear the out of bounds question. We have to take it on the word of the announcers (not the greatest sightlines from their vantage point). |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2696 |
03-12-18 08:48 PM - Post#252593
After all the discussion about a benefit of the Tournament being that the hottest and healthiest Ivy team is more likely to emerges, if Harvard had survived the final 8 minutes without Towns (and Aiken) it would have been ironic. Best of Luck to the Quakers. |
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LyleGold PhD Student Posts 1712 |
03-12-18 08:59 PM - Post#252596
The replay doesn't make clear the out of bounds question. Yes, but out of bounds was not the call. The replay shows no evidence of a foul that I could see. I was jumping up and down with joy from across the court and immediately said it was just like the Yale play - only it went our way this time. When I got home, hoarse and delirious, and had a chance to review the game, it became obvious that the ref assumed a foul. We definitely dodged a close call on the key play of the game. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-12-18 09:05 PM - Post#252598
Right, but the announcers (at any rate) claimed that Betley had gone out of bounds and that the ball should therefore have been awarded to Harvard. So I guess there were two different issues, then. **Just watched it again. Definitely no foul. A make-up call for all of those Saturday night refs over the years! |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-12-18 09:08 PM - Post#252600
The whistle may have blown first. V |
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LyleGold PhD Student Posts 1712 |
03-12-18 09:10 PM - Post#252601
There was only one issue. The ref called a foul. Yes, the announcer did say that it was a steal and the ball was off Betley. Frankly, that's what it looks like to me now, too. (I just watched it about 5 more times in slow motion.) The only thing that is unclear is if the ball went out of bounds before Betley retrieved it because the sideline is not visible. None of that matters because the ref called foul, not out of bounds As far as karma, payback for past injustices, etc., well, refereeing is often bad in big games. Does it balance out in the long run? Probably. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-12-18 09:19 PM - Post#252605
Yeah, this issue is being analyzed concurrently in the Ivy League header and, amazingly, similar conclusions have emerged. There were a couple of other plays during the game that the announcers raised questions about--there was one in particular where they said Amaker could have appealed if he chose to. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2696 |
03-12-18 09:21 PM - Post#252606
Despite wishing that the play had ended up as a turnover, Harvard had more than enough chances to win. I complain about various things, but not the refs. Too many calls - usually evens out. Too many bunnies missed, no excuse for the extended Penn run (call a timeout!, get Haskett in to guard Foreman), and some bad decisions. I feel that the key play was when Penn missed a shot in the final minutes with Harvard up by 3, but Johnson failed to box out Wood or even go for the rebound. Penn hit a big 3 within seconds, instead of possibly falling behind by 2 sores. That was big. |
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1173 |
03-12-18 09:30 PM - Post#252607
I feel that the key play was when Penn missed a shot in the final minutes with Harvard up by 3, but Johnson failed to box out Wood or even go for the rebound. Penn hit a big 3 within seconds, instead of possibly falling behind by 2 sores. That was big. I had a nightmare last night that on Wood's second three (from the top of the key) Brodeur got whistled for a moving pick on the down screen. If you watch the replay, Brodeur goes down after presumably making some contact with the Harvard defender. I'm not entirely sure Brodeur didn't move laterally a fair bit to set that screen. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-12-18 09:33 PM - Post#252608
For me, the biggest stretch was the final 4:10 of the first half. Harvard squandered a 13 point lead and ended up giving up 13 points in the final 3 minutes to trail by 2 at the half. Almost all of their shots in those final 5 minutes were off-balance/one handed from a big with little chance for an offense rebound. |
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Quakers03 Professor Posts 12533 |
03-12-18 09:37 PM - Post#252612
I feel that the key play was when Penn missed a shot in the final minutes with Harvard up by 3, but Johnson failed to box out Wood or even go for the rebound. Penn hit a big 3 within seconds, instead of possibly falling behind by 2 sores. That was big. That was indeed a HUGE play as Caleb came flying in along the baseline after a missed 3. He then got to the line for 2 free throws, not a 3. Those came later, courtesy of him as well, and with it a title. The play also ended the 13-0 run. The stories on this team, including Caleb and his 4.0 gpa, are almost as good as what we saw from the Birds. Only one more thing could make it better... Speaking of the Caleb 3's, the screen AJ set on the and 1 was interesting... I've watched the Betley play a bunch and I'm not the least bit convinced it landed out. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
03-12-18 09:45 PM - Post#252616
Any word on Seth Towns? It was hard seeing him in pain and tears on the sideline. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3589 |
03-12-18 09:55 PM - Post#252619
AJs screen? Not nearly as bad as Chris Lewis street sweeper screen that led to the Juzang 3 with under a minute left. Or the Corey Johnson Fosbury vs Max with under 2 to play. Some poor calls down the stretch both ways for sure. |
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LyleGold PhD Student Posts 1712 |
03-12-18 09:57 PM - Post#252620
I've watched the Betley play a bunch and I'm not the least bit convinced it landed out. That's the only part of the play that remains a mystery. Looking at the parts of the baseline that are visible and other factors like the red border, Ryan may have safely regained the ball. I wish there was another angle. I guess we'll never know. If the ref hadn't reflexively blown his whistle, Ryan may have been legitimately fouled a second later or called timeout. If you've watched him in similar situations this year, he always holds the ball and waits for the foul call. That strategy killed us at Yale. |
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LyleGold PhD Student Posts 1712 |
03-12-18 10:10 PM - Post#252622
Oh, and by the way, how close did Devon Goodman come to fouling Bassey's 3 pt attempt on the final play? Their hands came together after releasing the shot. We've seen a lot less called lately (Silpe's foul against Yale being the most egregious.) |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32846 |
03-12-18 10:12 PM - Post#252623
What are you doing? Are you intentionally trolling our own site trying to make Harvard fans think they got screwed??? |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-12-18 10:14 PM - Post#252624
Ryan should have been calling for time right away as he was clearly in trouble, but never did. We had two TOs in our back pocket.
I've watched the Betley play a bunch and I'm not the least bit convinced it landed out. That's the only part of the play that remains a mystery. Looking at the parts of the baseline that are visible and other factors like the red border, Ryan may have safely regained the ball. |
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LyleGold PhD Student Posts 1712 |
03-12-18 10:24 PM - Post#252629
What are you doing? Are you intentionally trolling our own site trying to make Harvard fans think they got screwed??? No, but if they do, that's just a bonus. I'm just pointing out what a fine edge decided this game. It's not trolling if it's the truth. You know I've bitched about how many times we've gotten screwed and the refereeing in general drives me crazy, but for once it worked out for us. It very easily could have gone the other way. |
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Quakers03 Professor Posts 12533 |
03-12-18 10:42 PM - Post#252633
AJs screen? Not nearly as bad as Chris Lewis street sweeper screen that led to the Juzang 3 with under a minute left. Or the Corey Johnson Fosbury vs Max with under 2 to play. Some poor calls down the stretch both ways for sure. Agreed in full. I'm just glad they let them play for the most part. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4914 |
03-13-18 08:07 PM - Post#252874
The worst blown call was the first-half charge where the ref falsely claimed that the help defender for Harvard was in the restricted area. The replay showed in black-and-white that he was not. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
03-13-18 08:18 PM - Post#252879
That’s one where seeing it live it looked like a good call (so i’m Surprised to hear it was not). Is this a useful time for me to say that I don’t really get why the calls are ever even a conversation? Maybe it’s from coaching myself and not wanting players to worry about the refs (so i never argue a call), but you get some calls, and some go against you. I don’t give it a second thought. Reffing is hard, and sometimes they’ll get them wrong. Part of the game. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-13-18 08:47 PM - Post#252895
I think that might have been the call the announcers said Amaker could have appealed if he wanted to. |
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Quakers03 Professor Posts 12533 |
03-13-18 09:29 PM - Post#252899
It was indeed. I watched it again last night. From a technical standpoint the Columbia color guy is right, assuming the call was made because he was in the restricted. I guess we can take his word for it but I thought the defender was still moving anyway. |
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