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| Username | Post: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn | |
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Penn90 Masters Student Posts 574 
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07-20-18 05:16 PM - Post#259222
Per Bloomberg
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
07-21-18 06:48 AM - Post#259233
Wow. This is crazy. I hate to think it's true. I always thought of Allen as at least a role model. I can't imagine this will go well for Allen. The alleged activity would have been a breach of his duties. From an NCAA standpoint, I really don't know. It is a reverse recruiting scandal. The player's dad recruiting the coach. The player never played... |
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gopenngo Masters Student Posts 487 |
07-21-18 11:30 AM - Post#259238
Maybe we'll have to vacate some of those losses. |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
07-21-18 12:26 PM - Post#259241
Maybe we'll have to vacate some of those losses. Well played! 
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Local Observer Junior Posts 231 
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07-21-18 12:30 PM - Post#259242
Did he report the income on his federal tax return? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
07-23-18 09:05 AM - Post#259266
I think one of the ongoing false assumptions here was that Allen was a "role model" and a good guy. He was neither. Sure, he could be a father figure to those for whom he could get a return (his recruits, when not selling the slots), but to the student press, he was abusive and intimidating. As someone who was student press and had to interview Chuck Daly, he would tell you that you knew nothing about basketball (relatively true, of course), but sit with you and give a true interview, not one word answers filled with anger. Sure, Allen was losing, but a coach is supposed to be a professional and at least cordial to the student press. To me, that was a telescope into his character, as were the debacles with Cartwright and Bagtas. There is no denying the guy's competitiveness and talent as a player, but on many levels, he was the worst coach in modern Penn history, and given that we had two other failed coaching regimes, that is saying something. Let's just hope this does not lead to any NCAA punishment, because the program is now being run in the right way. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
07-23-18 09:37 AM - Post#259268
This is such an embarrassment. It adds to the legacy of The Bronzed One (TM), another guy who was a competitor on the court but who had major failings as an administrator and didn't provide proper oversight. Glad that Calhoun seems to be working out as a very solid hire. |
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1173 |
07-23-18 10:06 AM - Post#259269
Only in our conference does the money flow from dad to coach, and not the other way around. |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
07-23-18 10:18 AM - Post#259271
debacle with cartwright? i'm not challenging you that there was one but I can't remember and googling quickly didn't work. |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
07-23-18 10:20 AM - Post#259272
Guys, he asked for his jersey number in terms of dollars of bribes! How can you not respect the hustle? "including three separate wired payments of $15,000, $20,000 and $18,000 to Allen from Esformes." |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
07-23-18 10:25 AM - Post#259273
Nice get on the math! |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
07-23-18 10:33 AM - Post#259274
http://www.thedp.com/article/2012/12/penn- basketba... Right after Miller's seniors that got Allen within a whisker of an Ivy championship graduated, the new "leader", Miles Cartwright, managed to get 5 players (including himself) suspended, allegedly related to partying. The 3 freshmen involved, Hicks, Nelson-Henry and Henry Brooks all can be said to have underachieved at Penn. Here's a story just post-suspension: http://www.thedp.com/article/2012/12/penn- basketba... And a later one calling it "substance abuse": http://www.thedp.com/article/2014/03/phill ips-alle... And one talking about failed drug tests: http://www.thedp.com/article/2012/12/sourc es-penn-... |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
07-23-18 11:02 AM - Post#259276
oh right, that. Well yeah, not great but I seem to remember Dunphy had a game where a bunch of people got suspended. Kids will be kids in my opinion while I can see why you and others wouldn't like it. Bagtas was in a whole other class in my opinion. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
07-23-18 11:09 AM - Post#259277
Hey, I was a student too. And saw some really good teams up close. And those teams smoked their weed and played at a nationally competitive level. The problem here was not limited to having a good time. The problem was the lack of discipline on the court, which was believed to be related to the partying. You have to look at the decline of these players over the course of the Allen relationship---we thought Cartwright would be an all-Ivy player. Thought Hicks would take his game to another level. Thought Brooks could play (OK, I did and probably not many others). But all these guys either treaded water or got worse. |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
07-23-18 11:33 AM - Post#259279
I think one of the ongoing false assumptions here was that Allen was a "role model" and a good guy. He was neither. Asia just said on the Voy Board that "[t]o the outside world, Jerome appeared to be a deeply religious, family man." |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
07-23-18 12:32 PM - Post#259287
I wasn't fully on the "outside" as the father of a DP sports reporter at that time. So I have my own opinions of the man from my own experiences. But taking bribes to help an applicant get into Penn (with about zero chance of playing) is pretty low on the ethical scale, don't you think? |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
07-23-18 12:37 PM - Post#259288
But taking bribes to help an applicant get into Penn (with about zero chance of playing) is pretty low on the ethical scale, don't you think? Even setting aside the questions of legality.... yes I do think it's unethical behavior. Check out this discussion. https://www.quora.com/Is-it-legal-to-bribe- an-Ivy-... |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
07-23-18 01:26 PM - Post#259291
Per Mike Jensen, the school has announced it has hired outside counsel to investigate. http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/college s/penn/... - Penn’s athletic department said Monday it is launching an investigation into allegations of bribes to former Quakers basketball coach Jerome Allen, hiring outside legal counsel to handle the investigation. “Penn Athletics is aware of the allegations regarding former head men’s basketball coach Jerome Allen, and we take these allegations seriously. The University has retained outside legal counsel to investigate the matter. We will have no further comment at this time,†the department said in a statement. - |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
07-23-18 02:18 PM - Post#259302
Per Mike Jensen, the school has announced it has hired outside counsel to investigate. - I presume that one of the things that counsel will investigate is whether Allen did this other times. I don't suppose you guys can come up with other examples of Allen signing guys who didn't really seem to be of the usual caliber for a Penn basketball recruit? |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
07-23-18 02:30 PM - Post#259304
I don't suppose you guys can come up with other examples of Allen signing guys who didn't really seem to be of the usual caliber for a Penn basketball recruit? Guys, the line to hit this softball forms to the right. Let's make sure it's done in an orderly fashion. |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
07-23-18 02:44 PM - Post#259307
I don't suppose you guys can come up with other examples of Allen signing guys who didn't really seem to be of the usual caliber for a Penn basketball recruit? Guys, the line to hit this softball forms to the right. Let's make sure it's done in an orderly fashion. Sounds like Penn's investigators are going to be busy in the upcoming weeks. |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
07-23-18 02:53 PM - Post#259308
I recall there was a son of a Texas billionaire who flew his son's AAU teams on a private jet. In that case, I could at least believe the son had serious intent to play basketball, even though I don't think he saw the court much or at all. I also can't remember if that was a Miller or Allen recruit. I suppose it is a dangerous and unfair witch hunt to associate kids' names with this situation. |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
07-23-18 02:56 PM - Post#259309
I didn't realize there were these issues with him. I'm pretty far removed from things and don't get to see the press interaction much. I had always assumed the communication issues were from being introverted. I also always believed that was part of his problem as a coach - management and communication skill. Still unsure - should we consider him guilty or wait to find out more? The articles sound credible.
I think one of the ongoing false assumptions here was that Allen was a "role model" and a good guy. He was neither. Sure, he could be a father figure to those for whom he could get a return (his recruits, when not selling the slots), but to the student press, he was abusive and intimidating. As someone who was student press and had to interview Chuck Daly, he would tell you that you knew nothing about basketball (relatively true, of course), but sit with you and give a true interview, not one word answers filled with anger. Sure, Allen was losing, but a coach is supposed to be a professional and at least cordial to the student press. To me, that was a telescope into his character, as were the debacles with Cartwright and Bagtas. There is no denying the guy's competitiveness and talent as a player, but on many levels, he was the worst coach in modern Penn history, and given that we had two other failed coaching regimes, that is saying something. Let's just hope this does not lead to any NCAA punishment, because the program is now being run in the right way. |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3779 |
07-23-18 02:59 PM - Post#259310
As Malcolm Gladwell might say, this episode raises new and troubling questions. Have other coaches at highly competitive institutions been doing this? You don't have to be a basketball coach and you don't have to be at Penn to sell an admission slot. |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
07-23-18 02:59 PM - Post#259311
I suppose it is a dangerous and unfair witch hunt to associate kids' names with this situation. No doubt. But if I'm Penn, I sure would like to know if this has happened more than once. |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
07-23-18 03:01 PM - Post#259312
As Malcolm Gladwell might say, this episode raises new and troubling questions. Have other coaches at highly competitive institutions been doing this? You don't have to be a basketball coach and you don't have to be at Penn to sell an admission slot. Presumably, those are the types of things that Penn's investigators are going to be looking at. Maybe this is an isolated incident. Or maybe it's not. |
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AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4361 |
07-23-18 07:22 PM - Post#259344
Jordan Salzman? Remember him? Certainly had some similarity with Esformes. Committed as a soph when Jerome was still there and we asked similar questions about his D1 creds. |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
07-23-18 08:25 PM - Post#259345
It's hard to separate GPA admits vs. bribe admits. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
07-23-18 10:49 PM - Post#259347
Certainly seems to be plenty of smoke. It sounds like the explanation/Defense is that Allen was providing private coaching for the kid. I don’t know precisely what the rules are in regard to that sort of thing, either legally, contractually, or under NCAA rules. Seems fraught even if it isn’t against any rules on its face. It also seems like $53,000 is a lot of money for private coaching. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
07-24-18 07:39 AM - Post#259350
That's total manure. It's one thing to moonlight on your more than fulltime job and sponge money off a "recruit" (which almost certainly is a fireable offense), but falsely listing a kid as a "recruit" in order to gain him admission is fraud. I'd love to hear Fran Dunphy's thoughts on this. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
07-24-18 08:30 AM - Post#259363
https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/... - Outside of the indictment of Esformes, that defense could be complicated. For starters, many commenters have noted that the payments seem quite high for some basketball coaching (for which time would have been limited, since Allen has a full-time job in another city). Esformes is alleged to have paid Allen in cash alone roughly what a year at Penn costs a parent whose student doesn't qualify for financial aid. Then there is the question of Penn and NCAA rules. While many basketball coaches augment their income through basketball camps and other activities, taking direct payments (or money-laundered payments) from the parent of someone about to apply would generally not be permitted. Mike Mahoney, director of athletic communications at Penn, said that the university was not commenting on the indictment. Asked if the university would allow a coach to receive payments for individual basketball coaching, as Esformes's lawyer said was the case, Mahoney said via email, "I believe NCAA rules would not allow a coach to provide individual training to a recruitable athlete." An NCAA spokeswoman did not respond to an email requesting comment. - |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
07-24-18 08:58 AM - Post#259365
Didn't Jerome make a ton of money playing overseas? This is just a ridiculous story. |
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ahg46 Freshman Posts 11 |
07-24-18 11:12 AM - Post#259373
i recall many an instance where a rich family donated monies to a University to have their child in a D1 program. do you feel this is ethical by those e Universities? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
07-24-18 11:31 AM - Post#259374
While there is a certain analogy to be made, the difference is that an employee took a bribe to falsely categorize a student as an athlete, when he was not. So the University was not getting the benefit of having a major donor---Jerome was stealing money to have his loyalty purchased. He allegedly was working on company time making fake recruiting trips while getting paid off by the kid's father. You can argue that donors should not get any benefit from their donations, but you also can argue that legacies should not be rewarded as well. The fact is that in both cases, there is a benefit to the University--here there was not. |
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AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4361 |
07-24-18 11:34 AM - Post#259375
There are development cases at Penn and other Ivies every year where large donations afford a child a significant admissions boost. These are disclosed contributions. Whether one thinks this is ethical or not varies. Many think giving athletes an admissions break is unethical. The same goes for legacies. But - this is different. It's an under the table payment to an employee to do something to get a kid, arguably not deserving, on one of these preferred admission lists. Even if he was deserving, this kind of payment to an employee is clearly unethical and perhaps a misdemeanor offense under Pa criminal statutes. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
07-24-18 11:49 AM - Post#259377
This is the statute that would apply here: https://law.justia.com/codes/pennsylvania/20 10/tit... |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
07-24-18 12:04 PM - Post#259378
i'd be more sympathetic to this argument if it was made on behalf of a coach making less than 200K a year. Or if there was evidence that a director of admissions was putting money in his/her pocket from a million dollar donation. Finally, I'm curious, what do you think the "minimum" donation is to get an admissions slot - just how much money did this guy save over the 53K he ended up spending? Do you think it's 7 figures? |
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Okoro Dude Senior Posts 309 |
07-24-18 12:06 PM - Post#259379
How is it that the Celtics haven't taken any public action at this point? Can't imagine he remains on their staff with this out there. It's not even just a story in the paper - it's detailed in a longer federal indictment of Esformes which tells me that the facts must be pretty clear or it wouldn't have been included. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
07-24-18 12:06 PM - Post#259380
Probably a sliding scale depending on how much help the kid needs to be admittable. But yes, a donation of $53K in cash would get you a plaque over a water fountain. |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
07-24-18 12:12 PM - Post#259381
exactly how many boston celtics fans do you think are upset about an assistant coach getting a rich kid into a school in philadelphia full of other privileged rich kids at the expense of other more deserving rich kids? there's your answer. |
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Okoro Dude Senior Posts 309 |
07-24-18 12:12 PM - Post#259382
https://future150.com/hs/basketball-news/20 18-sg-j... This article from 2013 is priceless - the only thing funnier is the comment from a reader at the bottom. |
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AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4361 |
07-24-18 12:28 PM - Post#259383
A poster posted that video on the Ivy Sports Board. But it's from 2013 when he was a sophomore. There's a tape on the Internet from his senior year that has the look of a normal recruiting tape (although it's still the Hebrew Academy and I never thought he was anything more than an AI booster when he was recruited to Penn). Michael Jordon's (the real one) sophomore tape probably wouldn't have been great considering the fact he was cut from his high schools varsity team that year. But - as I said - no one thought Mo would have any impact on the Penn team at any stage. Now we've found out there was much more to the story than simply taking an AI booster. Not too sure what this Penn investigation is all about other than to ascertain if anybody else knew this was going on. It's not like they have subpoena power or that Jerome or Esformes has to talk to them. |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
07-24-18 12:46 PM - Post#259384
could they kick the younger esformes out of school? how responsible is he for his dad's acts? assuming he didn't have knowledge, which for me is easy enough to believe. |
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AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4361 |
07-24-18 01:02 PM - Post#259386
I don't know but I doubt it. As you said there is nothing to suggest he did anything wrong. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
07-24-18 01:12 PM - Post#259387
Yes, unless he made material misrepresentations about his record in his application, they will not do anything to the kid. I tend to disagree with Jeff, however, that nothing will happen to Jerome. I don't see the Celtics ignoring this. This is not just a violation of NCAA rules, which is the usual thing NBA teams ignore about former college coaches. |
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frank Junior Posts 211 |
07-24-18 01:18 PM - Post#259388
I'm just back from vacation and rading this thread. Has Jerome issued a denial, or any kind of statement, or did I miss it? |
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AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4361 |
07-24-18 01:18 PM - Post#259389
I recall there was a son of a Texas billionaire who flew his son's AAU teams on a private jet. In that case, I could at least believe the son had serious intent to play basketball, even though I don't think he saw the court much or at all. I also can't remember if that was a Miller or Allen recruit. I suppose it is a dangerous and unfair witch hunt to associate kids' names with this situation. Preston Troutt |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
07-24-18 01:29 PM - Post#259390
This whole story raises all kinds of questions - many of which we'll never get satisfactory answers to. The thing about this is that we're quick to judge Jerome poorly on this. A more forgiving thread of how this may have played out goes like this... Jerome Allen takes a recruiting trip to see Mo because of fake news videos and articles created by Philip and because of calls from Dwayne Wade's trainer that the kid is the real deal. He's just doing his job at that point. Possibly Jerome shows a bit of hesitancy, and Philip arranges a private jet so time and expense can't be as much of an excuse. Perhaps he says he was already flying from Philly to Miami and Jerome can hitch a ride. Mo shows himself to be a fine kid, a hard worker, and having received a lot of training - but not a true D1 player. At this point, Philip applies a full court press. Presents himself as a future benefactor of the program. Gets Dwayne Wade's trainer to say he will use connections to recruit Miami based players to Penn. Offers to endow assistant coaching positions. Jerome thinks to himself that occasionally Penn uses a basketball slot for AI purposes. Why not use it for this kid, whose family may provide other benefits to Penn. Somewhere in that process, Philip sends checks to Jerome under the guise of reimbursements or fees for coaching - something along those lines. In this narrative, Jerome still made a terrible decision in accepting a payment and deserves whatever repercussions he faces. My point is that people who give bribes actually aren't necessarily in conspiracies with other bad people. They groom normal people but suck them in deeper. They prey on their weaknesses by flashing private jets and money. While my narrative is purely a fiction, I raise it just as a way to say that I'm not completely sure to what degree I am utterly disgusted by Jerome's actions or actually pity his poor decisions and the consequences. I hope he is a man enough to admit whatever he did or didn't do and save everyone a lot of pain (and expense). I will not judge him, as I didn't grow up in his circumstances. He doesn't deserve a free pass either. He did not need non-salary payments to survive. He had a Penn degree, a great network, and a decent salary. He was not lacking for opportunity at that stage of his life. He was just a poor head coach under any measure. Now he has also tarnished the excellent legacy of Penn basketball coaching. Assuming the facts prove the news story to be true, he is a fallen idol. He probably won't be the last. If the stories are true do you think his picture should be removed from the Palestra? Clearly I've been overthinking this situation...
could they kick the younger esformes out of school? how responsible is he for his dad's acts? assuming he didn't have knowledge, which for me is easy enough to believe.
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AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4361 |
07-24-18 01:51 PM - Post#259396
An interesting construct and it's ok for you to give Jerome the benefit of the doubt for now, but the first trip to Miami was a commercial airline flight by Jerome that Esfromes paid $2000+ for. That's an obvious NCAA violation and one every Penn coach receives in depth training on avoiding. This should have been nipped in the bud had Jerome not been a willing participant. As a result I'm not sure I can be as generous as you want to be in interpreting this as anything other than what it appears to be. |
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Penn90 Masters Student Posts 574
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07-24-18 01:52 PM - Post#259397
I admire your generosity of spirit, Penndemonium. But Penn gave Allen three huge breaks: They went to the wall to accept him as a student when he was a marginal admit at best; they gave him the professional break of his career; and, they gave him a soft landing when he failed as coach. You'd think he would refuse any kind of largesse simply out of loyalty to the institution that helped him so much. Nope.
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
07-24-18 10:19 PM - Post#259418
In some ways, the obviousness could fit some aspects of the narrative though. It seems so obvious that I wonder if Allen had any idea that what he was doing was wrong. Yes, he certainly would have been trained to avoid that sort of thing, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he got the point of the training. It also could be yet another reason you don’t make a guy with 7 games as an unpaid assistant your head coach suddenly mid season — it is possible that some protocols for on-boarding a new guy got skipped because there was a game in a week, and the new guy wasn’t experienced enough to know. Anyway, i’m doing my best to keep an open mind. My lawyer brain tells me to remember there could be an explanation — I just have trouble coming up with precisely what it could be. |
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gopenngo Masters Student Posts 487 |
07-24-18 10:38 PM - Post#259421
If Penn had survived Alabama, this all would be different. |
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gopenngo Masters Student Posts 487 |
07-24-18 10:44 PM - Post#259422
But, seriously. The HYPers have to be LMFAO to think there is outrage about $ influencing admissions. Yeah, low guy on totem pole takes the heat. And, of course, the Tanned One pulled a Sgt Schultz. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4914 |
07-25-18 12:48 AM - Post#259426
The two consolations I think can be taken from this tale are that, first, a Penn admission slot is highly desirable and second, the reverse polarity from the usual NCAA scandal is humorously IL--people pretending to be athletes so they can be processed by the academic factory. "Do you know that X was recruited to play basketball at Penn and he can barely dribble, but he's an expert in geochemical isotope analysis? It's a scandal!" There are many ways to skin this particular cat. A high school classmate of mine who was a talented athlete (played football at Penn State) transferred to Princeton and never played a down, quitting the team with alacrity. |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
07-25-18 06:21 AM - Post#259427
Anyway, i’m doing my best to keep an open mind. My lawyer brain tells me to remember there could be an explanation — I just have trouble coming up with precisely what it could be. Apparently, so does Allen. If there was an innocent explanation, I think we would have heard it by now from him. |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
07-25-18 06:25 AM - Post#259428
"Do you know that X was recruited to play basketball at Penn and he can barely dribble, but he's an expert in geochemical isotope analysis? It's a scandal!" Usually the geochemical isotope analysists don't bother effing with athletics when they apply for admission. They often get in on their own. I think it's fair to assume that such is not the case with this individual. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
07-25-18 07:52 AM - Post#259429
That often happens. One of my college roommates was recruited to Penn from growing up in Towson, MD as a talented lacrosse player. Showed up, quit and enjoyed Penn as a student. But the difference is that he was legitimately recruited and no money changed hands. Without athletic scholarships, there is nothing requiring the recruited athlete to play when he or she attends. That of course, is one of the reasons Ivy coaches recruit so many players. |
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SteveChop PhD Student Posts 1155 |
07-25-18 11:46 AM - Post#259435
Two comments, P38. The first is that the method the lacrosse player you cite may have used his ability to play lacrosse as a way to get into an Ivy League school. Don't know whether he had any real intention of trying to play lacrosse at Penn, tried to play but found the time constraints of playing a division I sport too much, or just used the system. He would not be the first or last athlete to do so. Mike Jensen had a column in this morning's Inquirer hypothesizing that Jerome/Penn used Esformes as a way to raise Penn's basketball AI, another fallacy of the AI system. This is done ALL THE TIME by Ivy league coaches to enable them to have athletes admitted who would otherwise not be. http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/mik e_jense... The one thing that still is a problem is why Jerome would have taken any payments. If he wanted to use Esformes as an AI raiser, there was no need to take money to do so (if he did - I, too, am a lawyer and will wait to hear the facts from the other side). |
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SteveChop PhD Student Posts 1155 |
07-25-18 11:47 AM - Post#259436
[Deleted] |
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Okoro Dude Senior Posts 309 |
07-25-18 11:48 AM - Post#259437
Sorry, hard to have an open mind on this one. What is described is clearly wrong and anyone who gets to a leadership position as high as head coach of a college basketball program has to be able to know this and be accountable for failure to do the right thing. I am not buying any innocent explanation that he didn't know what he was doing was wrong. If others knew or provided inadequate oversight, then they are culpable too, but for sure Allen is wrong here. |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3779 |
07-25-18 11:54 AM - Post#259438
What he said. Jerome should have known better, and almost certainly did. If he didn't, that's probably even worse. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
07-25-18 11:55 AM - Post#259439
I agree with you. I think the real question here is whether this was a one-off or not. And I think that is the reason the University is bringing in an outside law firm to investigate. |
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Stuart Suss PhD Student Posts 1439 |
07-25-18 12:53 PM - Post#259444
The best way to determine whether this was a one-off or not is for outside counsel to question Jerome. However, Jerome is: 1) an unindicted coconspirator in an honest services fraud case in which, for now, he is the key government witness, 2) nominally vulnerable to prosecution under Pennsylvania's commercial bribery statute, Title 18, Section 4708, although it is unlikely that the current District Attorney of Philadelphia would charge him, and 3) vulnerable to prosecution under the federal Travel Act, Ttile 18, Section 1952, with the state commercial bribery violation as the predicate "unlawful activity," and that assumes that the income from the bribes was properly reported on tax returns. So, isn't Jerome required to "take the 5th" if questioned by outside counsel for the university? And doesn't this preclude any public explanation or apology by Jerome in the near future? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
07-25-18 01:12 PM - Post#259445
Well, of course one can waive the Fifth Amendment right to be silent. And his job considerations with the Celtics may compel him to speak. I do not believe he is liable (potentially) under the Travel Act as a commercial bribery violation does not fit the definition of "unlawful activity" as I read 18 U.S.C.1952(b). But I agree that unless the Celtics require it, he is unlikely to talk about this. However, it should not be hard for investigators to look at other marginal players he recruited and investigate for payoffs. All of this being said, I cannot see any kind of innocent explanation for this, and that includes "I didn't know it was wrong." (not that that is a defense). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td67kYY9mdQ |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
07-25-18 03:00 PM - Post#259450
Let me correct myself on commercial bribery not being a predicate for a Travel Act violation. I was relying in my head on a line of cases that was overruled. So I stand corrected--kudos to Stu Suss. I still don't think it likely that he would be federally prosecuted for this standing alone, however. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8260 
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07-25-18 04:20 PM - Post#259460
I’m pretty sure in the unlikely event of prosecution on state charges, it would be referred to the PA state AG very quickly. Have to believe he cuts a witness deal with the Feds. |
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Stuart Suss PhD Student Posts 1439 |
07-25-18 07:41 PM - Post#259470
Here is the text of the indictment filed on July 19. The relevant allegations are found on pages 32-36. Although the hyperlink is correct, the legal citation in my earlier post is incorrect. Pennsylvania's commercial bribery statute is found at Title 18, Section 4108. |
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QuakerShaker Freshman Posts 59 |
07-27-18 12:26 AM - Post#259517
Public action for what? Being anonymously referred to in an indictment that didn’t even focus on this issue? If the US Attorney’s Office in PHL or the local state prosecutor wants to open an investigation and seek an indictment, that’s a different story (and may we’ll be what comes next). This is bad news for Penn but not exactly a concern for the Celtics at this stage. Too many armchair lawyers on this thread speculating about things they know nothing about. Forunatrly, some of us (probably 20% since this is Penn) actually practice.
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QuakerShaker Freshman Posts 59 |
07-27-18 12:28 AM - Post#259518
More idiocy. Witness to what? Esformes stands accused of a massive Medicare fraud, with witnesses already having testified to the grand jury. A $53k bribe for his son to go to college is a sideshow to the indictment. Allen will not get anything of the sort. You’re dreaming.
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QuakerShaker Freshman Posts 59 |
07-27-18 12:33 AM - Post#259519
Penn is bringing in an investigation firm to determine the veracity of allegations that one of its highest profile employees committed a felony while acting in his capacity as a university employee. There are potential repurcussions for Penn, ranging from NCAA sanctions and bad press to being subpoenaed. Whether the incident was isolated or systemic is an interesting question, but it’s not why Penn is investigating. Nor does it truly matter. If he did what they say he did, he’s up shits creek and the program should be sanctioned. I’m not sure that changes if he did it twice...
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
07-27-18 09:30 AM - Post#259526
If you claim to practice, you should know that commercial bribery is a misdemeanor under PA law. Not a felony. Stu Suss and I were simply discussing whether it could be a predicate act under the Travel Act and agreed that while it could, it is extremely unlikely. As for the rest of the people here, there are expressions of amazement that Allen could have thought that accepting cash from a recruit's father (even assuming he didn't know that the recruit simply wanted an easier route into admission) was a breach of loyalty to the University. I don't see to much armchair lawyering going on---just a discussion by people who care about the University and the basketball program about a very questionable series of actions that really have no legitimate explanation. |
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Okoro Dude Senior Posts 309 |
07-27-18 12:07 PM - Post#259547
Silliness on your part. I'm not a lawyer, I'm a businessman. I wouldn't trust or tolerate an employee who was anonymously referred to in an indictment for taking bribes in a previous position. I will be surprised if the Celtics, who have their pick of many talented coaches to fill his role, will ultimately see this any differently. |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
07-27-18 01:04 PM - Post#259551
I'll do a bit of armchair work here - but not exactly lawyering. Call it game theory. The way I see it, someone needs motivation to go after Allen. Accepting a bribe is certainly not kosher whether it is a misdemeanor or criminal level offense. The local or federal prosecutors may have motivation to chase this down, but I doubt they would bother because the victim isn't clear - unless they need Allen as a witness against Esformes or for a general PR purpose about being tough. The real victim is an unknown person who got rejected from Penn (or from the basketball team) because Esformes's kid took the spot. No one knows who this victim is. The other potential victim is the University - employees are not supposed to be taking bribes. It harms the integrity of the University's athletics and admissions processes, and the overall reputation of the school. The outcome here (I believe) depends on whether the University goes after Allen, which would force the hand of law enforcement. The University investigation will tell a lot. I am picturing a university board or leadership meeting where they discuss the cost and merit of going after Allen. I can see it going either way - setting an example vs. the cost and PR impact. I'm going to guess they go for a quiet solution, but it isn't clear cut. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
07-27-18 01:11 PM - Post#259552
That's a good analysis and I agree with it. I only think that the University is the primary victim in that their employee took a bribe which compromised his loyalty to the University to act in the best interest of his employer, not himself and the briber/briber's son. It raises the question of whether this was a one-off or not, as well. The University will investigate and if it was a one time thing, given what has happened, it probably will let it go. If this occurred more than once, I think there will be a lawsuit. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8260
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07-27-18 02:53 PM - Post#259554
More idiocy. Witness to what? Esformes stands accused of a massive Medicare fraud, with witnesses already having testified to the grand jury. A $53k bribe for his son to go to college is a sideshow to the indictment. Allen will not get anything of the sort. You’re dreaming. I didn’t say it would happen. I only said if local charges were to be brought against Allen, the state AG not the local DA would handle it. |
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QuakerShaker Freshman Posts 59 |
07-27-18 03:44 PM - Post#259556
All true. This pot just needed a good stir. As someone wisely raised earlier, the easiest case here is likely to be tax evasion. Will be curious to learn if JA booked this as income for services or didn’t disclose it. Since the payment allegedly came from a nursing home and not from the dad, it will be hard to have claimed it as service income. C’s can always fire him, it would just be without cause and they would have to pay him severance if that’s what his contract provides. They can definitely question him about it and terminate him for cause if he isn’t cooperative. But the allegation alone isn’t grounds for a for cause firing.
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AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4361 |
07-27-18 04:54 PM - Post#259558
Don’t think anyone gets charged with tax evasion over 76k but he may get a bill for back taxes and interest penalties |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
07-27-18 07:32 PM - Post#259563
Don’t think anyone gets charged with tax evasion over 76k but he may get a bill for back taxes and interest penalties This site says that the unofficial minimum for potential criminal liability is $70K. https://www.optimataxrelief.com/criminal-charges/ If I were Jerome, I would not be breathing easy.. |
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omegahouse Freshman Posts 84
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 07-27-18 11:01 PM - Post#259568
Well, from a purely “let’s view all this from fifteen thousand feetâ€, if we have or garner any information regarding IRS issues, something is truly amiss (privacy requirements and all that sticky sort of nonsense........). |
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AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4361 |
07-28-18 09:57 AM - Post#259570
The IRS doesn’t go after these types for tax evasion. They will hit you with back tax assessments, put liens on your house etc and often settle for much less just to clear the file |
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pennsive Junior Posts 200 |
07-28-18 10:45 AM - Post#259571
As someone pointed out earlier, there are scenarios consistent with innocence or naivety, but still ethically challenged. One such is Jerome’s being hired to work with a kid who was not D-1 material. In return he is paid a stipend with a two tiered bonus: the first if he becomes recruitable as a D-1 athlete and the second if he is admitted to an Ivy League school. Assuming he had the grades and boards to put him in the admitable pool anyway, and assuming Jerome was impressed with his work ethic on the court, Jerome may have thought it was a win-win without any thought given to the appearance of a bribe. Perhaps he did pay taxes on all of it, or that part which he viewed as a stipend, and not the bonus which he viewed as a gift. This is not clear- cut, so don’t convict him before all the evidence is in. |
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Stuart Suss PhD Student Posts 1439 |
10-05-18 08:29 PM - Post#262064
Jerome Allen has pled guilty to bribery. Boston Herald Story |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
10-05-18 08:54 PM - Post#262065
never meet your teenage heroes. or alternatively, don't meet them and also don't HIRE THEM WITH NINE FUC&ING GAMES OF EXPERIENCE WHEN YOU'VE JUST PREVIOUSLY FIRED THE ANTICHRIST WHO EVERYONE FUC&ING TOLD YOU WOULD BE A BAD HIRE AND ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHH yeah, but don't meet your heroes |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
10-05-18 08:56 PM - Post#262066
I'm just amazed that the Celtics penalty is a 2 week meaningless suspension. To me, his mea culpa, after getting caught, is all words. |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
10-05-18 09:01 PM - Post#262067
i'm not that surprised. he'll never work in college again but when has nba ever cared about ncaa violations. markelle fultz's name (among others) is being brought up in the ncaa trial and i would be outraged if he was suspended for him or his parents taking money. victimless crime and a stupid system. this case has a "victim" in that some other 5'10 heady white dude from an upper middle class family could have been coded an athlete and gained admission to Penn. And don't get me wrong, I'm urinated at him and i'm sure penn administration is furious with him. but it's a dumb butt system that would never have occurred with scholarships. so whaddyagonnado? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
10-05-18 10:19 PM - Post#262069
All of that is true, but the real issue is that Jerome Allen took a bribe so as to betray Penn, his employer and for him, something a whole lot more. I've long been a critic of Jerome based on my personal knowledge of what a dick he was to student journalists, something that was the opposite of his mentor, Fran Dunphy. But this shows that the supposed "character" he was reputed to have was a fraud, something I am particular attuned to in the age of Trump. And with respect to the Celtics, it's not just NCAA violations, it's pleading guilty to a federal crime. I would hope that the NBA does something more substantive than what the Celtics did. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4914 |
10-07-18 11:15 AM - Post#262090
I think it's pretty clear that Allen is too well-networked in the NBA for him to get in much trouble for this. Unless there's some angry Penn alum in the league office. What always makes me laugh with statements of this type is when the perp talks about violating "high standards." Dude, you violated pretty low standards here. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
10-07-18 11:59 AM - Post#262092
To be fair that isn't exactly what Allen said.
I did not live up to the high standards I set for myself, or were expected of me in the position that I held. I'd agree that he didn't live up to low standards either. This was done for no reason other than to stuff his own pockets and was shameful. It's an embarrassment. |
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final479 Freshman Posts 49 |
10-07-18 01:05 PM - Post#262093
I agree that the NCAA and recruiting guidelines are a farce. However, this is sad on many levels. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
10-09-18 09:15 AM - Post#262212
According to an article in Philly.com, Penn Athletics has mentioned that the external review of Allen is almost done. http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports/college s/penn... "Penn Athletics is currently in the final stages of the independent review regarding the situation involving former head men's basketball coach Jerome Allen. Until that process is finalized, it is not appropriate to comment further." In dealing with this significant, but relatively low level controversy, Penn Athletics and the school's administration have not handled themselves well. They have not been forthcoming with respect to who is doing the investigation and the scope of the review. Also, the length of time it has taken to do the investigation of Jerome Allen, whether he has decided to cooperate or not, seems way too long. The Athletic Department announced that outside counsel was hired to investigate the matter on July 23rd. It is now just over 11 weeks. In comparison, the University of Maryland, which is dealing with much more serious issues, had a 14 week external investigation into the death of sophomore football player Jordan McNair, and the investigation into the toxic culture of its football program is reported to end next week - 10 weeks after it was initiated. Since it is taking so long for Penn's external review, maybe the person or people are looking at more than Jerome Allen. Given the lack of information, it would seem that a private university, especially one that does not have athletics as a major component to the fabric of the school or the city, can keep things as quiet as it wants. Hopefully, the announcement of the investigation's results will cause the school to be more open about what happened, what they will do to prevent this happening in the future and what punishments they will deliver to any guilty parties. |
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SteveChop PhD Student Posts 1155 |
10-09-18 10:13 AM - Post#262223
As has been noted previously, the inclusion of an athlete who may or may not be at a Division I level in order to increase AI is not anything new. Assuming that this was an isolated incident, the only thing new here is that a coach was given compensation for doing so. One thing that can be done is to eliminate or dramatically revise the AI index system, initially introduced as an anti-Penn measure. That will unfortunately create different issues. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
10-09-18 10:17 AM - Post#262225
Translation: " a coach was given compensation for doing so." = a coach took a bribe to defraud his institution into accepting a student who had no plans to play basketball. In other words, this was a fraudulent scheme and the victim was Penn, deprived of the loyalty of its employee. This has nothing to do with AI. |
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AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4361 |
10-09-18 11:06 AM - Post#262239
Kind of agree with both of you. Jerome obviously took a bribe. The issue of utilizing marginal players to reach a school mandated team AI bogey is nothing new though. All the Ivies do it. It used to be far more prevalent in Penn bb back when we had a JV team. There were often marginal D1 kids who were in recruiting classes who never made a varsity roster. So whether or not anyone at Penn other than Jerome knew about the money remains to be seen but I don't think taking a marginal kid with the right AI and coded by a coach would be a novel experience for the admissions dept that would raise too many eyebrows. I also don't think Nat Graham would have been elevated to associate head coach if he thought Esformes was anything but an AI booster. Did Ira know more? I doubt it, but the external investigation has yet to reveal its findings. I suspect Jerome is cooperating with the investigation now that his case appears to be settled and he has pleaded guilty - but I don't know that that's a fact. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
10-09-18 01:38 PM - Post#262266
It used to be far more prevalent in Penn bb back when we had a JV team. There were often marginal D1 kids who were in recruiting classes who never made a varsity roster. Wow. You just threw me for a loop. A dear childhood rabbi of mine who later spoke under the chuppah at my wedding passed away this weekend. He always spoke to me and my brother about his time on the JV at Penn in the early 70s and the stars of the team. He certainly could play basketball (although he never made it to varsity), but he was also brilliant and would have gotten into Penn regardless. Little doubt based on what you say that AI played some sort of role here. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
10-09-18 01:42 PM - Post#262267
Well, early '70s was well before AI and this (from my understanding) had nothing to do with AI---rather, it was an attempt to help a kid who was borderline in regular admissions to get over the hump....for a fee. |
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SteveChop PhD Student Posts 1155 |
10-09-18 04:35 PM - Post#262297
You say that your late friend (sorry for your loss) "would have gotten into Penn anyway". My comment to that is "maybe" (more likely in the era you reference). As we all know, many students are rejected from Penn, not because they are not smart or can't do the work but it's just a numbers game. That COULD have happened to your friend. Based on what we have heard about young Mr. Esformes, he is doing fine at Penn and is a senior scheduled to graduate in May. The issue here is whether listing him for athletic preference gave him a leg up (probably - though it doesn't mean he would not have been admitted under regular admissions criteria) but as noted above, that is/was not an uncommon practice in the Ivies to boost AI. The only issue I see here is that Jerome took money to list him that way - if no money had changed hands, I believe that this would have been a non-issue. The fact that his father is a defendant in a billion dollar plus alleged fraud is why this was discovered, a lawsuit that I don't think (not sure) had begun at the time of young Morris' admission. Did it happen before, whether at Penn or any other Ivy? Who knows? If the spotlight was not on the parent, I don't know that this would have been discovered. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
10-09-18 05:07 PM - Post#262298
I believe you are correct that this all came to light because of the lawsuit against the young man's father. However, it does not make what Jerome's actions acceptable. While no writer or interviewed expert can recall anything like this happening before, it does not mean that it has not happened. Looking at this objectively - Mr. Esformes wants to get his son into an elite private school. The young man is a good student with a solid application, but these schools have between a 5-15% acceptance rate. The parent could go the route of making a sizable (and public?) donation to one of these schools, but that is quite pricey. Why not spend the equivalent of one year's tuition, room & board to get the student on the recruited athletes list and increase the likelihood of an acceptance. With the Ivy League's AI issue, it would not raise a red flag if a lower rated athlete gets a recruitment spot. Going back to my Maryland comments from earlier, in 2017 a faculty member asked their President, Wallace Loh, how he could be certain that the university is “protected from the corrupting influence of athletics†in the wake of the UNC scandal. He replied “As president I sit over a number of dormant volcanoes. One of them is an athletic scandal. It blows up, it blows up the university, its reputation, it blows up the president. https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018 /8/1... While Allen's issue did not cost a life or represent a toxic culture, it could be the tip of the iceberg. Shouldn't Ivy Presidents, whose admissions policies are under the microscope by the courts and the media, be working with their ADs and Deans of Admissions to find out if this has happened at their schools? If not, how can they make the process more transparent so it does not give the appearance that anyone is giving money under the table to secure their child's place on the team and into the school. |
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SteveChop PhD Student Posts 1155 |
10-09-18 08:58 PM - Post#262322
I agree that this may have happened before at any of the Ivies (I think I stated that). I also agree that it is up to the Presidents - my understanding is that some Presidents are a little more active in trying to prevent the situation (an AI counter, not bribes) from happening. Of course, the Ivies could decide to give a limited number of athletic scholarships and get rid of the AI which might eliminate this charade. However, we know that someone is going to find a way around the system; the goal is to minimize those occurrences. |
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AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4361 |
10-10-18 05:11 AM - Post#262331
I think the likelihood of others taking bribes to code a student as a recruited athlete at Penn or any other Ivy is very unlikely. What Jerome did is both shocking and still boggles the mind. Nevertheless - to expect an admissions office to judge the athletic skills of a coded applicant is going way to far. Further - the Ivy Presidents are so far removed from this process that they can't be held responsible. But - I do agree that the Ivy system could be changed to limit the number of recruited athletes and to revamp the AI so that the only relevant number is the imposition of a floor. I also agree the limit, accompanied by scholarships, would make the coaches much less prone to fudging the system. However - the Ivy League is far more concerned about appearances than reality and I have trouble seeing them open to a scholarship based admissions process for athletes. And, of course, it's not as if the scholarship schools haven't engaged in other activities that would be considered either equally or even more appalling than what Jerome did. I really think this remains a one off situation - one that we will always struggle to understand why. |
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Condor PhD Student Posts 1888 |
10-10-18 10:55 AM - Post#262347
Not that it is the critical issue here, but I am confused by the amount. It appears that JA received $18,000. To my knowledge, gifts to the school that have admissions impact are minimally $250,000, and likely much more. I assume the annual gift tax exclusion for both spouses at the time of transfer would have been either $26,000 or $28,000. Hence, while it is difficult to understand why JA did this under any circumstance, the amount makes the compromise even more confusing. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
10-10-18 11:09 AM - Post#262348
That's just what he pled to. Probably because if the full amount were the subject of the plea (I believe the number was $76K), it would have been a harsher sentence. |
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AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4361 |
10-10-18 11:09 AM - Post#262349
It was a bribe to encourage Jerome to code this kid as a recruited athlete. It wasn't a gift to the school. |
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Condor PhD Student Posts 1888 |
10-10-18 11:19 AM - Post#262350
It was a bribe to encourage Jerome to code this kid as a recruited athlete. It wasn't a gift to the school. I know. I just compared the school gifts to indicate the value/savings of the bribe. |
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Condor PhD Student Posts 1888 |
10-10-18 11:25 AM - Post#262351
That's just what he pled to. Probably because if the full amount were the subject of the plea (I believe the number was $76K), it would have been a harsher sentence. That makes sense. Regardless, it is difficult to grasp. |
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AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4361 |
10-10-18 12:04 PM - Post#262359
You can't just give $250,000 to Penn and secure admissions. They do have about 10-20 development cases each year, but there is no magic bullet. I know a family that donated $500,000 to get their kid off the waiting list. It worked but she partied a lot and flunked out. Penn is basically need blind but for these few cases each year. You can bet the Trump kids were development cases. Those were the years that he actually gave decent money to the school. He hasn't been particularly generous to Penn relatively speaking considering he likes to throw the Wharton brand around for self aggrandizing purposes. |
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Condor PhD Student Posts 1888 |
10-10-18 12:25 PM - Post#262361
That is exactly my point. Ignoring the ethical issues, JA was a pretty cheap date. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8260
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10-10-18 06:18 PM - Post#262379
Did he ever make significant contributions commensurate with his self-proclaimed net worth? I had heard from a fairly reliable source he never did much over 5 figures. There is also a legend out there he inquired on what it cost to rename the Wharton School or buy naming rights for a building, but he was quickly priced out. |
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1173 |
10-11-18 09:26 AM - Post#262396
Pretty much everything is for sale on the Penn campus ("YOUR NAME HERE!"). Therefore, considering nothing has the Trump name on it, I had always assumed that he had never given a nickel to the school. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
10-11-18 09:38 AM - Post#262397
Certainly that is true at Penn (but isn't it everywhere?). BTW, does anyone actually call Logan Hall Claudia Cohen (Page 6) Hall? |
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yoyo Senior Posts 365 |
10-11-18 02:49 PM - Post#262409
Trump University Quakers |
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SteveChop PhD Student Posts 1155 |
10-11-18 03:34 PM - Post#262411
We all agree that we don’t understand why Jerome would have taken ANY money. The amount could have something to do with that that Jerome owed to two people or other circumstances of which we have no knowledge. I think we are uniform in agreeing that the whole episode makes little, if any, sense. Therefore , why should the amount of compromise make any sense or tie to logic. As far as finding out about other such incidents, I think it is unlikely other than in circumstances like the ones in this case. Has that happened before? It’s not unlikely. Will it happen again? Maybe but perhaps admissions officers will be more circumspect about athletes though, as someone noted, they cannot presumed to be judges of athletic abilities. While this group focuses on basketball, no reason why this couldn’t happen in minor sports-they too are subject to the AI and could have the same reasons as Mr Esformes, I.e. To get their child a top quality, Ivy League education |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3779 |
10-11-18 03:51 PM - Post#262413
This strikes me as something that would be very difficult-- impossible, actually-- for a university to detect. As long as the family and the coach are discreet, how would anybody else ever know? The only reason this incident came to light was because Mr. Esformes got busted for something else, and when the FBI dissected his finances they turned this up. Otherwise we'd all still be remembering Jerome Allen (relatively) fondly. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
10-11-18 03:56 PM - Post#262414
"Otherwise we'd all still be remembering Jerome Allen (relatively) fondly." Some of us, anyway. I frankly don't understand the hatred for Miller and the love for Allen. Miller didn't betray the University and frankly, left the program in much better shape than did Allen. To me, his greatness as a Penn player has nothing to do with this---if anything, it makes it a greater betrayal. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
10-11-18 10:17 PM - Post#262427
Well, the bribery issue is new — is anybody really lining up to speak fondly of Allen in light of that? Before that came to light, I see it a little differently from the way you do. To me, it isn’t just comparing where the team was when they each left — it’s also about where the program was when they each started. When Miller started, we were undoubtedly the class of the conference. When he left, we were one of the worst teams in the country. And that is what was going on on the court. You also had the team become a less professional operation during that time (which some of the players’ families pointed out at the time — and these were kids who chose to come and play for Miller). Allen picked that situation up and couldn’t get out of it. Miller obviously left him with one great player and a couple of good pieces. But that last Miller freshman class was shockingly bad, with one division one player in it (who basically had one decent season — for bucknell). Some of Allen’s recruits contributed to an Ivy championship; none of Miller’s recruits did. |
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AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4361 |
10-12-18 05:48 AM - Post#262432
This is a pretty good article documenting the Trump families donations to Penn. https://www.thedp.com/article/2016/11/trump s-histo... The lack of charity relative to their supposed level of wealth is paltry considering how Trump repeatedly trumpets his Wharton pedigree as proof of his intellectual prowess. I was at Citicorp in the 80's. We had loaned Donald Trump a lot of money. He was flat broke and technically bankrupt. He squandered his father Fred's fortune. We kept him afloat and baby sat him through the economic downturn because this was preferable to taking possession of his assets. Had Trump simply held onto the real estate empire Fred had built in Brooklyn and Queens he'd be so much wealthier than he is today. Before the banks were considered too big to fail in the last downturn, it was people like Donald Trump who were considered too big to fail by his lenders. It's ironic that so many who railed against efforts to keep our banks afloat and our auto industry in business supported and still support him. |
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1173 |
10-12-18 08:52 AM - Post#262436
I was at Citicorp in the 80's. We had loaned Donald Trump a lot of money. He was flat broke and technically bankrupt ... We kept him afloat and baby sat him through the economic downturn because this was preferable to taking possession of his assets. In other words, it's all your fault. Thanks, Asia! ;-) What I found amazing about that NYT investigation was how Fred kept giving Donald money, knowing damn well the son was urinating it all away. Sure, Fred was a tax cheat and cheapskate and a plain old SOB, but at least he knew how to make money. Why he entrusted so much of his gains to his financially incompetent son remains a mystery to me. Maybe Fred felt Donald was the least bad of his options. The eldest son was an alcoholic, and I think the other son was an even worse businessman than Donald. Probably should have entrusted it to Maryanne, who clearly is the smartest of Fred's kids. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8260
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10-12-18 09:04 AM - Post#262439
As the article points out, Trump typically does not make good on his pledges so it’s hard to know what he actually gave. Beyond that, some of the money came from his foundation which he does not fund it large part. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
10-12-18 09:07 AM - Post#262440
I see it completely differently than you. Miller did indeed inherit great seniors, but it was absolutely bare below that, except for Grandieri, a junior. Dunph certainly knew when to get out. Miller had to start from scratch, brought in Schreiber and Reilly that first year (both high recruits who didn't work out because of injury) then Bernardini, Eggleston, Gaines, Belcore, Rosen, Howlett, Turley and Monckton. No question he flamed out under the pressure of losing and just not being a guy who could stay cool under such pressure. So these are the guys Allen inherited and got to within a game of a championship. Or his experienced assistants did, for as soon as they left, he collapsed, despite recruiting some guys who could really play--Hicks, Howard, Cartwright, Dougherty, DNH, Brooks (well...) and in his last year, Woods and Foreman. Guy simply could not coach and left far less for Donahue than Miller left for him. Sure those guys made the Ivy tournament (4th place), primarily due to much better coaching, but the 2nd place team Allen got was a better team. And Allen's last 3 years, with his own recruits, lost 20, 22 and 19--worse than any Miller year, and they were not killed by injuries as were Miller's teams. Anyway, even leaving aside the bribery, Allen was just a terrible coach. Set the program back years. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
10-12-18 09:11 AM - Post#262441
David Fahrenthold of the Washington Post won a Pulitzer for investigating the total sham that is/was the Trump Foundation. There's no "there" there. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3588 |
10-12-18 11:22 AM - Post#262450
Anyway, even leaving aside the bribery, Allen was just a terrible coach. Set the program back years. To be clear, JA set the program back 3 years. Upon his removal, that's what it took a good coach to get back to the top. Leaving him there wasn't Jerome's fault, it was on the AD. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
10-12-18 11:29 AM - Post#262451
I've been pretty vocal about Bilsky, too. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
10-12-18 11:44 AM - Post#262465
I can forgive the bribery. It's the terrible coaching that is unpardonable. |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3779 |
10-12-18 11:45 AM - Post#262466
It was also the ADs fault for hiring Jerome in the first place. It was a terrible decision. Hiring Miller, even though it worked out terribly, was at least a defensible decision. There was no good reason to think that Jerome Allen was qualified to be head coach, and the result wasn't a surprise. Even making him interim coach was a bad call. |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
10-12-18 01:10 PM - Post#262474
I don't disagree with the point, although many on this board were much more positive and optimistic about Jerome at the time. I was quite negative on it initially, but also eventually got caught up in the hope that a Penn hero could also turn out to be the positive coach and role model we all hoped he would be. I also received a PM on this board from a player who was personally lobbying for Jerome. The player was asking members of the board to write letters to the administration. The player said that any of the players would run through a brick wall for Jerome and that he was a great talent for recruiting and in-game strategy. That helped to mitigate my skepticism a bit. It is easy to be critical of Jerome and Miller, but the truth is that being a head coach is just incredibly hard. All people have strengths and weaknesses, and the ability to create sustainable excellence depends up on a coach's executive skills. Those executive skills are only partially overlapping from those that make someone a great player or assistant. Great player management, assistant management, recruiting, scouting, player development, in-game coaching, PR, school administration management, etc. Assistants only need to be good at one or two of those things. Coaches need to be great at all of them or else recruit, empower, and retain people who fill in the gaps. Miller was clearly a great coach at Brown. Perhaps he didn't assemble the right pieces at Penn. Jerome seemed to have great assistant potential but not much executive skill. At the Celtics, he can focus on the things he does well and there is plenty of other executive talent to handle everything else important to the team. In college, you have to do so much more yourself. I know everyone is down on Jerome. I can't condone what he did. I hate how he hurt his reputation, Penn's reputation, and his legacy. That said, I don't suddenly think he's a bad person. Everyone snaps to judgment on these things, but even decent people can make some (really) bad decisions sometimes. The truly bad ones are the narcissists whose only regrets are about consequences.
It was also the ADs fault for hiring Jerome in the first place. It was a terrible decision. Hiring Miller, even though it worked out terribly, was at least a defensible decision. There was no good reason to think that Jerome Allen was qualified to be head coach, and the result wasn't a surprise. Even making him interim coach was a bad call.
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
10-12-18 02:24 PM - Post#262487
Man, you really buried the lede.
I also received a PM on this board from a player who was personally lobbying for Jerome. The player was asking members of the board to write letters to the administration. |
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Charlie Fog Masters Student Posts 587 |
10-14-18 06:46 AM - Post#262529
It was also the ADs fault for hiring Jerome in the first place. It was a terrible decision. Hiring Miller, even though it worked out terribly, was at least a defensible decision. There was no good reason to think that Jerome Allen was qualified to be head coach, and the result wasn't a surprise. Even making him interim coach was a bad call. Well said. Jerome is still a hero to the program |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
10-14-18 07:39 PM - Post#262554
No way. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
10-15-18 08:55 AM - Post#262575
Agreed. His hero status is long gone. |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3779 |
10-15-18 09:02 AM - Post#262580
I was kind of assuming that Charlie was being ironic with that statement. Perhaps I am mistaken. |
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Penn90 Masters Student Posts 574
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10-15-18 10:27 AM - Post#262593
I forgot that JA was elected to the Penn Athletics Hall of Fame. Beyond any legal reprisals, I wonder how Penn will punish him from an optics perspective.
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
10-15-18 10:34 AM - Post#262594
Exhibit A: The Steve Wynne Wall of Fame. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2140 |
10-15-18 12:19 PM - Post#262601
I forgot that JA was elected to the Penn Athletics Hall of Fame. Beyond any legal reprisals, I wonder how Penn will punish him from an optics perspective. Exhibit A: The Steve Wynne Wall of Fame. ::bites tongue, stifles snide political remark:: |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
10-17-18 08:49 AM - Post#262778
It doesn't seem that the Celtics have had any public statements about Allen since the initial comments from Ainge and Stevens praising Jerome for owning up to the charges brought against him. There were some comments from Boston area papers stating Allen would probably get a two week suspension, but the team has not said anything. For those watching last night's Sixers-Celtics game, was Jerome on the bench? |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
10-23-18 11:43 PM - Post#263388
The DP has comments from Dean of Admissions Eric Furda about the post-Jerome landscape between Athletics and Admissions. https://www.thedp.com/article/2018/10/jerom e-allen... - Furda suggested new professional development and training for staffers in both departments to prevent future incidents of bribery. He added that any staffer, regardless of their seniority, should go through the training process. Furda noted, however, excessive regulation of the recruitment and admission process could hinder the ability of both departments to do their jobs well. “Is One College Hall going to put up these walls so high that we can’t even recruit people? Will athletics need to put things up within their own department – that they’re not going to be able to recruit people?†Furda said. “Can we overly regulate, legislate any of the pieces?†- In addition, there's this little bit from a member of the Athletic Department, concerning the investigation. - Penn Athletics is currently in the "final stages" of an internal investigation conducted by a hired outside legal counsel, Associate Athletic Director of Administration and Strategic Communications Kevin Bonner said. "We remain in the final stages of the investigation. If or when we have more information, we’ll be sure to reach out," wrote Bonner in an emailed statement to the DP. - |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
10-24-18 08:20 AM - Post#263393
This wasn't a case of the system failing or lack of safeguards. This is a case of one person's moral failing. That person must have known better. It's tough to pin much blame on anyone else when under the current system coaches can recruit AI ballast within the rules. How would the AD or Admissions know that Esformes was recruited not for his AI score but because Allen accepted a bribe? The DP writers should know better than to dance around this. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
10-24-18 08:23 AM - Post#263395
Agreed, but in a way it is like 9/11---no one ever thought a hijacker would take a plane and blow himself up and use the plane as a bomb. After all, the procedure was to do whatever the hijacker wanted to save the passengers and crew. After 9/11, procedures had to change. They will have to change here, despite the fact that no one ever would have thought that a coach would use recruiting rules to obtain a bribe simply to help a kid get into the school for academics. There now will have to be some due diligence that all recruits are actually Division 1 level basketball players. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
10-24-18 08:45 AM - Post#263398
How can you possibly judge that? Coaches in this league regularly recruit players with marginal skills and high AI. How does anyone tell the difference between a player that the coach reasonably believes may be good enough to hang on the roster (and happens to have a high AI) and the player the coach is bringing in because he was bribed? I get that Esformes was a particularly egregious case - we were laughing at his workout videos when he was recruited. I can envision situations that are not as clear, with a bribe making the difference as to whether one 'recruit' or another is coded. Let's place the blame where it deserves to be placed - on the coach who took the bribe. |
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AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4361 |
10-24-18 08:52 AM - Post#263401
I disagree and think Dean Furda is directly on point. You can't expect Admissions to evaluate whether a high school kid is a D1 talent. It's important to remember that there are 30+ varsity sports at Penn and this awful behavior could have taken place in any one of them. It happened in a sport near and dear to all of us and was perpetrated by a Penn icon, but it could have been the women's golf coach. But certainly reinforcing strict rules of conduct through better staff training would be helpful. My understanding is we do do staff training for our coaches but this incident should be part of the unacceptable conduct reinforced in that training. I also think that the training could impose certain standards/expectations to be applied with so called AI boosters, who will continue to be utilized under a very flawed Ivy recruiting system that invites the use of such boosters. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
10-24-18 09:20 AM - Post#263402
Obviously, I don't know the kid's qualifications for admission to Penn as a non-athlete, but let's just say that the liason between admissions and the team probably could have asked some questions which would have revealed that he needed the help to get into Penn and was not an AI booster---but the questions should be asked as to why this kid is being recruited. Perhaps I am incorrect and he was a great student and the use of athletic recruitment was overkill, but somehow, I doubt it. |
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Bill Lewis Senior Posts 304 |
10-24-18 09:24 AM - Post#263403
The Harvard data has the answer. The overall admit rate at Harvard is 5% and the recruited athlete admit rate is 85%. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
10-24-18 09:24 AM - Post#263404
Associate Athletic Director for Student Development Matt Valenti wrote that potential recruits must be "academically representative" of the overall student body before their athletic ability and other intangibles within their respective sport is seriously considered." According to reports, young Mr. Esformes met Penn's academic standards. Then, Coach Allen tells Dean Furda or someone on his staff that the kid is a legitimate athlete who he wants strongly considered for admission and the kid gets into Penn. A relatively simple dynamic. Even though Dear Furda is a big basketball fan and is at many game, I would not expect him to be knowledgeable enough about the student's ability to play DI basketball. While I agree that is very important for HR to train all the departments together, in general, there has to be some fix within the Athletic Department. I assume that any athlete viewed by an assistant has to be brought to the attention of the head coach. What happens in situations where the head coach finds someone? Does he or she bring that person to the assistant coaches to get their opinions and thoughts? If they don't, then maybe having them get a sign off from their staff would eliminate this rare, but always possible, corruption from repeating. |
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QHoops Senior Posts 369 |
10-24-18 09:26 AM - Post#263405
And the point of the training is what, 'Don't take bribes'? I'm only being partly facetious - while additional training can't hurt, the concept that a few hours of training will transform someone who would take a bribe into someone who would not seems to be a little naive. As much as I loved Allen's contribution to Penn basketball (as a player, obviously), visible consequences for his actions might be more impactful. And am I the only one who thought an apology to Penn was conspicuously missing in Allen's public statement. Granted that was for the benefit of his current employer, but he seemed to regret the impact on his reputation, his family and the Celtics more than the real victim of actions, namely Penn. |
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AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4361 |
10-24-18 09:38 AM - Post#263407
Oh - I think the staff was well aware of Esfromes abilities or lack thereof and that he was being recruited for a specific purpose. PS He wasn't the last non D1 type Jerome recruited. Post Esfromes, a kid from a small private school on Long Island committed to Penn very early in the process similar to the Esfromes commitment. He subsequently decommitted and ended up as a walk on at ASU and a non factor in their bb program. The use of AI boosters is nothing new. The taking of a bribe to encourage a coach to utilize a particular individual as an AI booster is what was new - shockingly so. |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
10-24-18 10:17 AM - Post#263411
palestra, i read it the way others have: esformes was a typical-ish "good student" who would be competitive but by no means assured of getting in to Penn. Not unlike your daughter's case for Harvard/Yale (so on a direct comparison basis she was the better student). Esformes Sr decided to put his thumb on the scale. And for admissions/athletics, i don't think the case was something that could be distinguished. There are probably 5 people (20? 30?) every year that the coach could designate as his/her AI booster. That person goes from 50/50 in the regular candidate pool (because they are strong-ish) to 100%. It wouldn't shock me if Jerome talked himself into it with one of those bs post-bribe justifications "well listen, I'd probably be taking this guy anyway so if I can make a little more money in the process, who's getting hurt?" The athletic part is completely besides the point with the AI booster so no alarms tripped on athletics side. On academic side, I'd bet Esformes was fairly typical. If he wasn't, then sure, training opportunity. |
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SteveChop PhD Student Posts 1155 |
10-24-18 10:18 AM - Post#263412
I still think that it is probable (certainly possible) that other (not necessarily basketball) Ivy coaches have taken bribes of the Esformes nature. The only reason we found out about this one (4 years after it occurred) was that the father was under federal criminal investigation. As a result, I believe that Dean Furda's idea that this be stressed again in training (to include the "in kind" favors, not just cash) delivered to all coaches and assistant coaches. |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
10-24-18 01:29 PM - Post#263417
All, I spoke at a seminar one time on investment fraud in the post-Madoff era. People were asking me how you can sleuth around or do your due diligence to catch the fraud before becoming a victim. They were imagining investigative and forensic research that busts the company open. I told them that will almost never happen. The reason is that if you are doing deep due diligence that looks like it will expose the fraud, people like Madoff will simply stop sending you information and you'll lose interest in working with them. You won't catch the fraudster red handed - fraudsters will find easier prey and move on. I further pointed out to them that all of the new regulations in the world won't stop this exact fraud from happening again. The reason is that new procedures still rely either on human judgment or else documentation procedures. The US regulatory response to Madoff made small firms like my own spend millions to jump through hoops for regulatory oversight. Our firm is the same honest firm before and after the oversight. A fraudster would have no problems fooling the regulators - it would be just as easy as before. They would just need to fake more documents - which they were already willing to do anyway. No regulator would catch that - they would just have more faked documents in their file cabinets than before. Furda was being very astute in his comments - that admissions cannot replace the athletic department in assessing talent. Meanwhile, if you add documentation procedures or double down on oversight, you will simply encumber the process for the average honestly recruited athlete, and overall hurt your program. A determined fraudster would still be able to fool the system. This is the sad legacy that Jerome has left us with. The only way to really solve this problem is to have good people working with other good people and having them all aware of possible shenanigans. Everything else is window dressing and simply making life difficult for honest people. |
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HGA Sophomore Posts 106 |
10-24-18 04:46 PM - Post#263430
Can we talk about the exciting upcoming Ivy season and focus less on the bad behavior by an ex-coach?? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
10-24-18 04:52 PM - Post#263431
There's plenty of that in other threads and we all are interested in the team this year. This thread deals with an article in today's DP and warrants discussion. No one is forcing you to participate. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
10-24-18 06:05 PM - Post#263434
Is the recruited athlete admit rate particularly meaningful? Don’t the Ivies still do “likely letters� So the players have more or less gone thru the admissions process before they apply. By the time they apply, it’s more or less a done deal. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
10-25-18 03:11 PM - Post#263508
I think there are situations where it could be obvious to admissions that somebody isn’t really coming to play basketball. I believe Harvard had an AI booster type in recent years who had averaged under two points a game in high school. But even with the somewhat laughable workout video, I don’t think I’d be in a position to say I was 100% certain about that for Esformes. If I remember correctly, his high school numbers were allegedly pretty good. I recall there being some presumption he was an AI booster on the board, but also some people who thought he could play. |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
10-25-18 05:10 PM - Post#263511
wait, we don't tell the admissions group which one is the AI booster? I thought that was obvious. We just had good ol' Griff come through. he's the latest in a LONG line. |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3779 |
10-25-18 05:52 PM - Post#263512
Of course Admissions knows who the AI boosters are. And, unless somebody does something really stupid, it's impossible for anybody to know if the booster's parents greased the coach's palm a little bit. The only way that I can see to deter this sort of behavior, given that the chances of detection are so low, is to make the consequences truly dire in the event somebody gets caught. That's why I hope the University goes after Allen very aggressively. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
10-25-18 07:49 PM - Post#263513
Seems like you have to be relatively sophisticated to know that (assuming it is true) without being told. You could look at his bio, see he was all conference on a team that won it’s conference and region, and that he was on all area media teams. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
10-26-18 08:25 AM - Post#263520
You just use this formula to find the AI boosters : (AI > 2 standard deviations above average) & (name != 'Steve Danley') Then check the bank account of the coach for deposits from the parents of that list. |
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SteveDanley Sophomore Posts 102 |
10-26-18 09:51 AM - Post#263527
Ha. I like to think I was the best kind of AI recruit. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
10-26-18 10:33 AM - Post#263528
You indeed were. We are, of course, interested in your thoughts and the thoughts of other player-alums on this matter. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
01-14-19 10:05 AM - Post#272525
No new info on Jerome Allen and Penn, just a Boston Globe article on his most recent trip back to South Florida. https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2019/0 1... |
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SteveChop PhD Student Posts 1155 |
01-14-19 01:17 PM - Post#272554
You can't read the article without a subscription |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3588 |
01-14-19 05:23 PM - Post#272582
I was able to. It’s just about how JA helped Kyrie after a Miami game when KI went to the gym that night. It has nothing to do w the scandal, just a fluff JA piece |
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SteveChop PhD Student Posts 1155 |
01-14-19 09:56 PM - Post#272620
Thanks PF10! |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
02-14-19 10:01 AM - Post#276352
Thanks to P38 for finding the DP article on the Jerome Allen investigation update. I am posting the link here to make it easier to have all the information on one thread. https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/02/penn- athleti... - I think Allen's original statement said that he pleaded guilty to taking an $18,000 bribe and that he would be repaying that money + $200,000. While it was implied, I don't think he explicitly mentioned that he would be testifying against Esformes. - Penn finally announced the name of the investigator, Chuck Smrt of The Compliance Group, to oversee the internal investigation. - The school is saying that it cannot move forward with the results of their investigation until Allen is done with his part of the Esformes trial. Jury selection started this week in that trial. |
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Stuart Suss PhD Student Posts 1439 |
03-10-19 11:35 PM - Post#280577
Jerome Allen has testified at the Esformes trial. Miami Herald article I realize this has been previously posted elsewhere by others. I wanted to keep the Jerome Allen thread together. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4914 |
03-10-19 11:41 PM - Post#280579
"A former head basketball coach at the University of Pennsylvania who is now with the Boston Celtics testified Friday that he was paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in bribes by a Miami Beach executive standing trial for Medicare fraud so that the wealthy businessman’s son could get into the Ivy League school." That's a lot more money than I recall reading in earlier reports. |
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1LotteryPick1969 Postdoc Posts 2276 
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03-11-19 06:35 AM - Post#280585
But it raises the market value of a Penn admission. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-11-19 08:21 AM - Post#280592
Correct. Significantly more. And he corrupted the admissions process. I see how the defense claims that the kid has done well at Penn. It's not a defense. Anyone who can gain admission through athletics is "admittable". There are many kids who can do the work who don't get in. It's a dark stain. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
03-11-19 08:39 AM - Post#280599
https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/03/penn- athleti... - Overall, Esformes paid Allen more than $74,000 in cash bribes and $220,000 in wire transfers over a period that extended from 2013 to 2015. In October, Allen, who currently works as an assistant coach for the Boston Celtics, admitted to having accepted $18,000 in bribes from Esformes. Allen had to repay this sum and was additionally fined over $200,000 by the federal government. He was also suspended from his role with the Celtics for a period of two weeks. He has not yet been sentenced. In July 2015, Bloomberg broke the story that Allen, originally labeled as “Coach 2,†had allegedly received $74,000 in bribes from Esformes. Penn hired Chuck Smrt of The Compliance Group, an outside consultant, to oversee its internal investigation of Allen’s conduct. Smrt specifically looked into whether Allen broke any NCAA rules. Last month, Athletics Director M. Grace Calhoun indicated that Penn was unable to comment on the investigation until after Allen's testimony. “Penn thoroughly reviewed everything surrounding the situation, and as soon as we're at liberty to proceed forward, after that part of the trial at least, we will," Calhoun said. Now that Allen has testified, it should soon become clear what Penn’s findings were. Allen’s conduct could have implications on Penn’s ability to recruit in the future in the form of self-imposed, NCAA, or Ivy League sanctions. However, there could also be no further action from either Penn or the NCAA. - |
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1173 |
03-11-19 12:27 PM - Post#280627
Question for the lawyers on the board: What is the purpose of the Feds going after the bribery angle in the context of an alleged BILLION dollar fraud scheme? Is it an effort to further paint Esformes as a died-in-the-wool POS? Is it part of a larger effort to throw everything but the kitchen sink at him? A little of both? Obviously no one is excusing his bribery (and certainly not those of Allen) but this bribery just seems like small potatoes compared to the massive fraud scheme this guy cooked up. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-11-19 12:40 PM - Post#280628
I don't have enough background of the case to comment on the Feds' strategy, but when you take on the government in a criminal case, they indeed will throw everything possible against you. That's why they don't lose many that they bring to trial. |
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Stuart Suss PhD Student Posts 1439 |
03-11-19 08:44 PM - Post#280715
It is behind the paywall, but Mike Jensen at philly.com has a report that Ira Bowman was a knowing participant in the bribery scheme. Statement from Penn: “Until Jerome’s testimony last week, we also were unaware that former assistant men’s basketball coach Ira Bowman had any relevant knowledge of the matter. The University has been cooperating fully with the government and the NCAA so that the matter is appropriately redressed.†|
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3779 |
03-11-19 09:16 PM - Post#280723
Perhaps Ira got out while the getting was good? |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
03-11-19 09:46 PM - Post#280731
This is just heartbreaking. Two of my Penn basketball favorites. Not enough is known about Ira's situation to judge completely, but it definitely isn't a positive. I appreciate that Jerome seems to have decided to tell the cold hard truth now, but the truth definitely hurts. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-11-19 10:06 PM - Post#280734
Telling the cold hard truth after you are faced with hard time if you don't is not commendable. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
03-11-19 11:39 PM - Post#280736
One wonders how thorough the Penn internal investigation, which had oversight by Mr. Smrt, was if they missed this important news. |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3619 
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03-12-19 12:20 AM - Post#280738
Ugh... this is brutal and what a disappointment from Allen and Bowman as well. I hope Bowman didn’t get any $$? His move seemed a little random before, but maybe not so random now. I literally just got an ESPN alert about this news so not a great look. |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
03-12-19 01:22 AM - Post#280741
Do people think Allen should have sold out Bowman? It isn't clear that he was forced to. The article says that Allen gave him debit cards, although the amount isn't clear and it also isn't clear if they were used. Most store bought debit cards are pretty small denomination. |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3779 |
03-12-19 10:50 AM - Post#280775
If Bowman knew this was going on and looked the other way, that's pretty bad. Whether he took any money doesn't seem very important to me. I realize it has legal implications. How much of this is going to splash onto the current AD's shoes? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-12-19 11:08 AM - Post#280781
I have severe doubts that she knew about it--rather, Jerome knew the handwriting was on the wall and kept it quiet to make more money in what would be his final year. Indeed, that is what he testified to. |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3779 |
03-12-19 11:45 AM - Post#280784
I think that's probably right. But, that doesn't mean she can't get blamed if the university administration decides it wants a scapegoat. If she's smart (and I'm positive she is), she'll do whatever she can to make sure Bislky gets the blame for this. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-12-19 11:51 AM - Post#280785
Although I blame Bilsky for the 10 years in the Wilderness, I don't blame anyone but Jerome for this. He crassly betrayed the trust of the University. It's not as though they weren't paying him well---he even got that double secret probation extension he didn't deserve, playing with Miller's recruits (and losing the one significant game he ever had with the team). Nope--this is all on Jerome Allen. |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
03-12-19 11:52 AM - Post#280786
I think that's probably right. But, that doesn't mean she can't get blamed if the university administration decides it wants a scapegoat. If she's smart (and I'm positive she is), she'll do whatever she can to make sure Bislky gets the blame for this. Apparently the Stanford sailing coach and the Yale women's soccer coach did the same thing that Allen did. And others... https://www.si.com/more-sports/2019/03/1 2/college-... |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-12-19 11:55 AM - Post#280787
Same story just broke in WaPo https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-secu... |
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LyleGold PhD Student Posts 1712 |
03-12-19 12:03 PM - Post#280791
This is getting pretty big and only the tip of the iceberg is visible at this point. https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/12/us/college -admissio... |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-12-19 12:09 PM - Post#280799
It appears that this is a sort of "Middle Class" fraud scheme--the amounts involved are in the 6 figures. Obviously, really rich people have accomplished the same outcome with million dollar plus bequests. Shows that the 6 figure sums aren't enough to bribe the schools themselves so they have to bribe the schools' employees. |
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1173 |
03-12-19 12:15 PM - Post#280802
It appears that this is a sort of "Middle Class" fraud scheme--the amounts involved are in the 6 figures. Obviously, really rich people have accomplished the same outcome with million dollar plus bequests. Shows that the 6 figure sums aren't enough to bribe the schools themselves so they have to bribe the schools' employees. Some call it "bribery." Some call it "development." |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3779 |
03-12-19 12:37 PM - Post#280810
I have a feeling this sort of thing is rampant among the Ivies and other similarly competitive universities. And, a coach who is smart and not too greedy can probably get away with it indefinitely. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2140 |
03-12-19 12:39 PM - Post#280811
Interesting. I was just coming here to post a link to another article on the same exploding fiasco you guys are referring to. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
03-12-19 12:44 PM - Post#280813
Auburn will not confirm whether Ira Bowman will coach at practice or the SEC Tournament this week. https://247sports.com/college/auburn/Articl e/Aubur... - "We are aware fo the reports that are out there and currently were and our administration are gathering facts, and until we know more it would be premature for me to comment further, so therefore I will not be answering questions regarding this," Auburn coach Bruce Pearl said Tuesday. - Yale women's soccer coach Rudy Meredith, who is named in the new admission bribery reports, resigned last November. https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2018/11/17/mered ith... - “After 24 years at the helm of the women’s soccer program, it is time to explore new possibilities and begin a different chapter in my life,†Meredith told Yale Athletics. “It is the right time to hand the team over to the next Yale women’s soccer coach who can guide the team into the future.†- |
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DCAJedi Masters Student Posts 582 |
03-12-19 12:44 PM - Post#280814
For the record, the Yale women's soccer coach (Rudy Meredith) was in his job for 24 years before resigning last autumn: http://www.yalebulldogs.com/sports/w-soccer/2018- 1... At the time, there was no public evidence this was coming.
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
03-12-19 12:46 PM - Post#280816
At the time, there was no public evidence this was coming. The operative word there is "public." |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2140 |
03-12-19 01:02 PM - Post#280819
ESPN piece on the admissions scandal. Apparently, a spot on the Yale women's soccer team was more valuable than a spot on the Penn men's basketball team. Go figure. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-12-19 01:08 PM - Post#280820
Of course, Jerome's contract was "family for life" with the guy, so it's more like the Bryce Harper contract. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-12-19 01:24 PM - Post#280825
Only the NY Post got the REAL story: https://pagesix.com/2019/03/12/lori-lough lins-daug... |
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SteveChop PhD Student Posts 1155 |
03-12-19 01:25 PM - Post#280827
Don't really want to say "I told you so" but here is the post I made in October. I feel vindicated but fear whether this will have any impact on Penn's B-Ball or athletic programs. "You say that your late friend (sorry for your loss) "would have gotten into Penn anyway". My comment to that is "maybe" (more likely in the era you reference). As we all know, many students are rejected from Penn, not because they are not smart or can't do the work but it's just a numbers game. That COULD have happened to your friend. Based on what we have heard about young Mr. Esformes, he is doing fine at Penn and is a senior scheduled to graduate in May. The issue here is whether listing him for athletic preference gave him a leg up (probably - though it doesn't mean he would not have been admitted under regular admissions criteria) but as noted above, that is/was not an uncommon practice in the Ivies to boost AI. The only issue I see here is that Jerome took money to list him that way - if no money had changed hands, I believe that this would have been a non-issue. The fact that his father is a defendant in a billion dollar plus alleged fraud is why this was discovered, a lawsuit that I don't think (not sure) had begun at the time of young Morris' admission. Did it happen before, whether at Penn or any other Ivy? Who knows? If the spotlight was not on the parent, I don't know that this would have been discovered." Apparently, there ARE ways. With the articles today, as I suspected, this "practice" HAS gone on elsewhere. A very troubling quote in Jerome's testimony is "[t]he one thing I can't take is WHEN WE ARE DOING BUSINESS... and you don't honor that.." Did Jerome "do business" in this manner on other occasions? This was "doing business"?? I am so disappointed in, and incensed at, Jerome's actions that I just don't know what to say. It is just a disgrace. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-12-19 01:30 PM - Post#280828
That post was not written to me, was it (I'm talking about the one in October)? |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
03-12-19 01:45 PM - Post#280830
Coach Bowman will coach at practice Tuesday and is expected to remain with the team as a bench coach in the SEC Tournament this week. https://247sports.com/college/auburn/Articl e/Aubur... |
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Ben Franklin Masters Student Posts 652 |
03-12-19 01:50 PM - Post#280831
It appears that this is a sort of "Middle Class" fraud scheme--the amounts involved are in the 6 figures. Obviously, really rich people have accomplished the same outcome with million dollar plus bequests. Shows that the 6 figure sums aren't enough to bribe the schools themselves so they have to bribe the schools' employees. At a public university or an Ivy, if your name isn't on a building, it's not enough. |
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Brian Martin Masters Student Posts 963 
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03-12-19 01:54 PM - Post#280833
Yale, USC, Georgetown, UCLA, Wake Forest, Stanford, Texas, USD indictment: https://www.justice.gov/file/1142881/download Georgetown tennis coach Gordon Ernst took $2.7 million over 7 years to designate at least 12 applicants as tennis recruits. Ernst was head tennis coach at Penn before moving to Georgetown. |
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SteveChop PhD Student Posts 1155 |
03-12-19 02:00 PM - Post#280835
No P38. There was another one in October that was a response to something you had posted. The "I told you so" was a general comment referring to my earlier posting. |
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LyleGold PhD Student Posts 1712 |
03-12-19 02:01 PM - Post#280836
ESPN piece on the admissions scandal. Apparently, a spot on the Yale women's soccer team was more valuable than a spot on the Penn men's basketball team. Go figure. My guess that it's the relative value of a place in the incoming freshman class of a particular school, not on the respective team, that has the price tag. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4914 |
03-12-19 02:12 PM - Post#280839
Mr. Smrt needed to buy a vowel. |
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Ben Franklin Masters Student Posts 652 |
03-12-19 02:26 PM - Post#280840
Mr. Smrt needed to buy a vowel. Says Mr. Srp. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2140 |
03-12-19 02:41 PM - Post#280842
ESPN piece on the admissions scandal. Apparently, a spot on the Yale women's soccer team was more valuable than a spot on the Penn men's basketball team. Go figure. My guess that it's the relative value of a place in the incoming freshman class of a particular school, not on the respective team, that has the price tag. Makes sense. |
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umbrellaman Masters Student Posts 476 
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03-12-19 03:24 PM - Post#280851
I knew this board would have the AI "booster" angle nailed down. Curious thing is that if these kids were "admittable" in the regular pool (which is the assumption because I can't imagine coaches would give up their "slots"), the amounts paid seem like they might be close enough to make a difference on the "legit" development side. It also raises the question of how they determine who gets the AI booster slots - the handful that I remember seem to come from feeder prep schools - the kind that have established relationships with the Ivys. |
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dperry Postdoc Posts 2214
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03-12-19 04:25 PM - Post#280862
So has Allen been explicitly connected to the overall scandal yet, and if so, was Esformes the "unrelated investigation" that laid all of this bare?
I feel vindicated but fear whether this will have any impact on Penn's B-Ball or athletic programs. To heck with Penn--if the rot goes much further (and judging from the FBI's comments at the press conference, it does) the entire League may be in trouble, along with athletic programs at many other highfalutin' schools. We already know the disrespect that many Ivy students feel for athletes and the concern a lot of faculty and administrators have about the percentage of the student bodies they take up. This would be the perfect opportunity to push for cutting back on athletic slots, raising admissions standards, etc.
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-12-19 04:33 PM - Post#280865
There go the athletic schollies. |
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westcoast Senior Posts 302 |
03-12-19 04:34 PM - Post#280866
So has Allen been explicitly connected to the overall scandal yet, and if so, was Esformes the "unrelated investigation" that laid all of this bare? In the FBI/DOJ press conference this morning, a reporter asked if the Jerome Allen case was the "unrelated investigation," and the answer was "No." |
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RedAndBlue19 Freshman Posts 6 |
03-12-19 05:09 PM - Post#280878
This is my perspective as a student, and by no means do I want to cause controversy or anything of that sorts or start a political conversation. There are many students within the Wharton population that one can see clearly how they have received admission. Don't really want to name specific names but just by looking at the name of the buildings one can infer rather easily. The Esformes case is problematic for me and a few of my friends from a few perspectives. The first, the father is accused to frauding medicare, which to us symbolize the playing around with people's healthcare and their lives in exchange for not only the spot for his partying and his financial contributions to his "off campus fraternity" hosting lavish parties that gives them social status while millions of Americans are struggling with basic healthcare. The students whose parents donated buildings and so on are furthering education for the many of us who are fortunate enough to receive this education and for many of us who are provided the financial aid to attend this school free of cost or at a severe discount. In that way, we get it and we are fine with those people as they provide 45% of the Penn population the possibility of coming to a school like this. With the Esformes case, not only does it hint at them screwing over millions of Americans, but bribing their way through athletics has no and almost negative value to the student population. Wharton's UG acceptance rate as quoted on Poets & Quants was around 7%. I believe that the majority of those applicants are more than capable of holding up the academic standard. However, Wharton is always looking for cookie cutter applicants today with something much more than just your standard 4.0, 2400, president of 3 clubs. I think a statistic I heard when I was in admissions for my student job was that for every 4 applicants with 4.0s and 2400 SATs, we reject 3 of them. In that regard, it is difficult for me to believe that Morris would have earned a spot without the extra boost made by the coach. With our basketball program as successful as it has been last year and this, it can't help but imagine how much stronger it could have been if we had a Bryce Aikens instead. Just my two cents from a student perspective.
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-12-19 05:31 PM - Post#280882
Good points (although I don't really understand your reference to off campus frat parties unless you are talking about the son). We were discussing earlier that there are many "admittable" students who are rejected precisely because they don't have something that stands out other than grades and scores (and even those that do). Certainly, being a legacy helps ---I have a daughter who is Class of '15 who was admittable at any Ivy but only was accepted at Penn among the 4 Ivies to which she applied. Being an athlete might be the surest way to obtain admission if you are admittable. And as we saw today, this is something that is a nationwide scandal----and something is going to have to be done to prevent it in the future--probably oversight. The immortal words of John Blutarsky are instructive here as we think about the relationship between the University and Jerome Allen: "You f---d up-you trusted us." |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
03-12-19 05:33 PM - Post#280884
There are many students within the Wharton population that one can see clearly how they have received admission. Don't really want to name specific names but just by looking at the name of the buildings one can infer rather easily. This has always been the case. The greatest Ivy admissions bias is the favoritism bestowed on the progeny of the rich and famous. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-12-19 05:42 PM - Post#280886
This has always been the case. The greatest Ivy admissions bias is the favoritism bestowed on the progeny of the rich and famous. True dat. Yet I doubt the Supreme Court will see any cases about this any time soon. They're too busy dealing with cases brought by the mighty (white) rich and famous who are trying to keep those who have been disproportionally disenfranchised out. |
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dperry Postdoc Posts 2214
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03-12-19 11:12 PM - Post#280912
There go the athletic schollies. Ironically, you could actually use this to argue for scholarships, in that the over-recruiting the Ivies need to do to make up for people quitting makes this sort of scam easier to pull. If you have scholarships and limit the rosters accordingly, it would make the spots more valuable and therefore less likely to get used on this sort of thing. It wouldn't solve the problem, as there were plenty of scholarship schools involved in this, but it might help. However, I think de-emphasizing athletics in general is a much more likely reaction.
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dperry Postdoc Posts 2214
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03-12-19 11:15 PM - Post#280914
With our basketball program as successful as it has been last year and this, it can't help but imagine how much stronger it could have been if we had a Bryce Aikens instead. Just my two cents from a student perspective. In fairness, Allen got fired exactly because he couldn't get the Bryce Aikens of the world to come to Penn, so I don't think Esformes cost us anything there. However, thank you for coming on and providing the student perspective, in particular the excellent point about building donors providing benefits to the campus as a whole.
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dperry Postdoc Posts 2214
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03-12-19 11:20 PM - Post#280916
This was "doing business"?? I am so disappointed in, and incensed at, Jerome's actions that I just don't know what to say. It is just a disgrace. I note that he is in both the Penn and Big 5 Halls of Fame. I have a feeling that those honors are going to be rescinded, and they certainly should be.
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-12-19 11:34 PM - Post#280919
Could someone tell me how this is different from Jared's dad or Donald's dad bribing Ivy schools millions of dollars in exchange for their sons to gain admission? Why isn't the government going after that? Why just go after the middle man--or is that the point all along.
This was "doing business"?? I am so disappointed in, and incensed at, Jerome's actions that I just don't know what to say. It is just a disgrace. I note that he is in both the Penn and Big 5 Halls of Fame. I have a feeling that those honors are going to be rescinded, and they certainly should be. |
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dperry Postdoc Posts 2214
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03-12-19 11:37 PM - Post#280920
Curious thing is that if these kids were "admittable" in the regular pool (which is the assumption because I can't imagine coaches would give up their "slots"), I don't know about that. Keep in mind that even championship teams have people who rarely or never get off the bench, or quit early. Given how much people were willing to pay to get their kids in, even one ringer a year would make you rich pretty quickly. Furthermore, many coaches are in bad situations and know it, and wouldn't necessarily mind using a slot to gain some financial security. For instance, the contact between Allen and Esformes occurred in 2013 and '14; Allen was on the hot seat all through that, and by the end of it, the writing was definitely on the wall. One could definitely see him giving in to the temptation to cash in before he got pushed out. Looking at the Yale soccer coach, he had a couple of good years in the mid '00s (made the third round of the NCAA's in 2005), but other than that, the record was pretty mediocre, and during much of that time, Yale was not enthusiastically supporting athletics. Again, if you don't have much chance of improving anyway, why not sell one slot? I don't approve of this, obviously, but I can understand the logic. (As an aside, while the Ivies have gotten better about getting rid of coaches who aren't doing well, there are still too many examples where people are retained long after it's clear that they're not the answer. Getting more serious about holding coaches accountable for performance would help prevent future incidents like this.)
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dperry Postdoc Posts 2214
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03-13-19 12:27 AM - Post#280926
So has Allen been explicitly connected to the overall scandal yet, and if so, was Esformes the "unrelated investigation" that laid all of this bare? In the FBI/DOJ press conference this morning, a reporter asked if the Jerome Allen case was the "unrelated investigation," and the answer was "No." Well, Wharton always has been proud of turning out independent entrepreneurs. 
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dperry Postdoc Posts 2214
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03-13-19 12:37 AM - Post#280927
Could someone tell me how this is different from Jared's dad or Donald's dad bribing Ivy schools millions of dollars in exchange for their sons to gain admission? Why isn't the government going after that? Why just go after the middle man--or is that the point all along. No matter what we may think of those situations morally, there is no law that requires private schools to admit students solely on merit (it might be different for the public schools that are involved in this.) The schools go into that sort of thing with open eyes (and as Red and Blue19 points out, those donations generally benefit other students as well.) This situation, on the other hand, involves fraud on institutions that don't know what's happening. Also, they're not just going after the middlemen; the parents are getting busted too (and the FBI guy said that if they found evidence that students cooperated with these schemes, that they would go down as well.)
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AsiaSunset Postdoc Posts 4361 |
03-13-19 07:20 AM - Post#280934
Totally agree. My understanding is that there are about 20 development admits each year which is a very small % of the class. Plus there are all types of admission preferences which schools feel are beneficial. This includes legacy admits, athletes, first generation Americans, certain minorities, geographic preferences etc. It’s not a pure meritocracy. But - fraud is an entirely different matter and those involved need to be held accountable. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
03-13-19 08:32 AM - Post#280942
FYI - It looks like the former Yale soccer coach was a cooperating witness. https://www.chronicle.com/article/8-Universitie s-M... - Randolph (Rudy) Meredith, former head coach of the women’s soccer team (he was a cooperating witness; he agreed to plead guilty to conspiracy to commit wire fraud and honest-services wire fraud, as well as honest-services wire fraud, in hopes of lessening his sentence) - |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8260
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03-13-19 11:33 AM - Post#280998
Could someone tell me how this is different from Jared's dad or Donald's dad bribing Ivy schools millions of dollars in exchange for their sons to gain admission? Why isn't the government going after that? Why just go after the middle man--or is that the point all along. This post was a surprise. One may take issue with development admits, or any other special admit; but there is nothing illegal about it. Despite the similarities, I do not want to conflate Jerome's crimes with the larger scandal. What Jerome did was especially heinous as he was being well compensated (as opposed to a volleyball coach) and he also had the benefit of earnings from his playing days. This was greedy, and clearly fraudulent. If he sucked Ira in, that makes it worse. He likely covered it up by claiming Esformes was an AI slot - another dubious Ivy practice. My takeaway from this is the the HOF honors should be pulled and his photos removed from the Palestra. The League needs some serious self-imposed reform in the direction of the original charter - or - give up the whole Ivy charade and go the power conference route ala Stanford, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, et. al. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-13-19 11:36 AM - Post#281000
This happened at Stanford, too. It has nothing to do with anything other than the lack of oversight of special admissions. As Blutarski said "You F----d Up, You trusted us." Well, this can't be a trust thing---they have to ensure that recruits are real. For goodness sake, the guy out in California was taking stock photos of athletes and superimposing his clients' faces over them in applications. What a joke. Just one thing---who has to pay $500K to get their kid into Southern Cal??? |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-13-19 12:01 PM - Post#281009
The image of Jerome is stricken. So shall it be written. Come on. Leave the Historical Palestra alone. |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
03-13-19 12:01 PM - Post#281010
Just one thing---who has to pay $500K to get their kid into Southern Cal??? Check out some recent USN&WR's rankings. USC is up there with some Ivies. This isn't your father's USC. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
03-13-19 12:18 PM - Post#281021
Go Green, was about to say the same thing. Living in the northeast distorts our view of what a good university is. In many places in the US it's tough enough getting into the top public U in the area - which is why people are paying to get their kids into UCLA and Texas. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8260
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03-13-19 12:34 PM - Post#281026
USC is the Syracuse of the west coast. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-13-19 01:14 PM - Post#281031
Streamers: I understand the nuances you and others have mentioned, but to me it's all about defrauding members of our society. The Feds are coming after those who are committing "fraud", presumably at the best of either these powerful institutions or other powerful individuals who still can't seem to find a way to get their kids into their desired schools, or both. The fact that colleges consider it "legal" for others to bribe them is a distinction without difference for me. They are perpetuating systematic structural inequities in society while purporting to level these differences through education. That is a fraud in my book (and these fraudsters get to write the rules so they don't get punished for it) and one that is far more damaging than the isolated number of cases in this recent story. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-13-19 01:22 PM - Post#281032
So I would presume you support the Harvard lawsuit...something I do not. If you believe in a "meritocracy", you have to show the objective facts supporting a fine line in admissions. There simply are none....and private universities (actually, it should apply to public as well, as long as there is no discrimination against legally protected classes) should be allowed to choose a class that they feel best shows off the University. As we have discussed, at least 3-4 times the number of accepted applicants are "admittable". What we are dealing with here are students who in the general population have little chance of admission. We are dealing with the betrayal of a trust and bribery to induce that betrayal. There is an argument to be made against preferences in admission, but that is not the same thing as what is going on here. And unless you show me that you can create a purely objective based admission process, these preferences have to be permissible. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-13-19 01:29 PM - Post#281034
I do not support the Harvard lawsuit because we all know what that's really about--I'm taking the long view. This current roundup of 50 is just another example of our legal system saying it's OK for corporations to do whatever they like to defraud society, but if individuals try the same thing (and to institutions, the nerve) we will come after them. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
03-13-19 03:01 PM - Post#281060
USC is the Syracuse of the west coast. The old matrix was : smart and rich : Stanford smart and not rich : Cal not as smart and not rich : UCLA not as smart and rich : USC Things have changed over the past few years. Quality coming out of USC in particular is pretty high and I'd guess significantly higher than Syracuse. Full disclosure - I interview quite a few USC grads. |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
03-13-19 03:11 PM - Post#281064
Things have changed over the past few years. Quality coming out of USC in particular is pretty high and I'd guess significantly higher than Syracuse. Full disclosure - I interview quite a few USC grads. USC's rise in the USN&WR's rankings over the past generation is pretty similar to Penn's. It helps a lot that the surrounding areas of both campuses (campi) have greatly improved over the past 30 years. Neither urban Philly or LA are the dumps or deathtraps that they used to be (notwithstanding the recent tragic killing of the USC student)... |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-13-19 03:19 PM - Post#281067
USC's is far more recent, and is more closely related to the money issues at stake in this scandal---how many major private universities are there in California---they can be counted on your hands. USC simply has very little competition and the amount of money competing to get kids into a private university is huge. Penn started its rise well before the US News rankings made a mockery of what makes a great school great. And it really had to do with the 1980s Greed is Great era that made Wharton the most desirable undergraduate business program in the nation. I attended the College in the '70s and then it took 40-50 extra SAT points to get into Arts and Sciences. That flipped in the '80s--made Penn a hot school and the other schools have become much more selective as well since that time. BTW, the Penn neighborhood never was that dangerous since it was assembled in the '60s---it simply was near to a relatively unsafe area. SC was in an unsafe area. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-13-19 03:38 PM - Post#281078
So do any of these famous people go to jail? This is fraud, no? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-13-19 03:48 PM - Post#281082
It is, indeed. It's hard to imagine any hard time for anything other than the tax fraud (apparently, the scheme was financed by a charitable non-profit for kids with learning disabilities and they had their kids fraudulently certified by a quack psychologist as having learning disabilities---they then donated large amounts of money to the "charity" which paid the bribes and they took charitable tax deductions). But this is high profile, so we'll see. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-13-19 03:50 PM - Post#281084
And are the students all going to be immediately expelled? I'd say so. They can reapply. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-13-19 03:52 PM - Post#281087
If they participated in admissions fraud (such as had others take tests for them), they are gone and will not be allowed back in. If like the Penn kid, all there was was a bribe with no evidence the kid was in on it, nothing will happen. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2140 |
03-13-19 04:03 PM - Post#281095
Auburn places assistant coach Ira Bowman on administrative leave, pending investigation. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
03-13-19 04:14 PM - Post#281097
I think even if the kid didn't know, he or she is gone, even if he or she would have gotten in without the cash payments. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-13-19 04:49 PM - Post#281103
In the mid to late 90s when I was in grad school and met a lot of folks from California, a lot of them were from UCLA and kind of scoffed at USC, its (then) poor stepsister. No longer. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
03-13-19 04:52 PM - Post#281106
I think schools are likely to dismiss students who knowingly put false information into their application. If any of these present or graduated students (the cases go back to 2011) submitted what they thought were valid applications, its not as easy. The Penn situation is perplexing. The student may have put down truthful information in his application, but shouldn't he have known that it was inappropriate (or at least odd) for a Division 1 head coach to fly to his home and be his personal coach? Maybe many of these students did think something odd was going on (one student had a 400 point jump in her score), but they had an inherent trust in their parents. Maybe, others did feel like they wanted to speak out, but found it difficult to challenge powerful beloved people in their lives who were doing things that were supposed to be for their short and long-term future. Maybe there are no easy answers. I hope the schools spend some time investigating their students and staffs before passing judgement? |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-13-19 04:58 PM - Post#281108
There is an argument to be made against preferences in admission, but that is not the same thing as what is going on here. And unless you show me that you can create a purely objective based admission process, these preferences have to be permissible. But here is where there are all kinds of issues. Many of us on this board have, for example, roundly condemned the continued eating clubs at one of our sister institutions as an example of systematically perpetuating (and even encouraging) structural inequalities. Yet why should it end there? I mean, which high school students could even apply to be on a sailing team, for example? Water polo? Boathouse Row? I'm guessing there aren't too many graduates of public schools on any of those squads. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
03-13-19 05:17 PM - Post#281115
The Penn situation is perplexing. The student may have put down truthful information in his application, but shouldn't he have known that it was inappropriate (or at least odd) for a Division 1 head coach to fly to his home and be his personal coach? Rich people think differently. They are used to stuff you or I may find unusual or improper. The kid very well may have found it normal. Remember Preston Trout? His dad assembled an entire top notch AAU team. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4914 |
03-13-19 05:57 PM - Post#281130
UCLA folks still look down on USC, though not as much. It is crazy hard to get into UCLA out of high school (but significantly easier to transfer in after two years of community college, which is a major mechanism behind UCLA's high percentage of first-to-college, Pell grant, and Hispanic grads). |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3619
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03-13-19 07:08 PM - Post#281143
I live in Los Angeles and my wife has worked for both UCLA and USC. UCLA is definitely still the best thought of school academically but a good margin, except for Film. USC is still a very good school, but at least locally here, UCLA is best thought of generally. |
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OldBig5 Masters Student Posts 639 |
03-13-19 09:27 PM - Post#281191
I had the same thoughts about USC. Didn't know it had gone up so much in its profile. |
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LyleGold PhD Student Posts 1712 |
03-13-19 09:46 PM - Post#281203
I had the same thoughts about USC. Didn't know it had gone up so much in its profile. USC is at #22 along with Cal-Berkeley and three spots behind #19 UCLA in the much discredited USNews rankings. I would have thought Berkeley to be the highest rated of the three. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8260
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03-13-19 09:47 PM - Post#281204
I have always described both USC and Syracuse as state school educations at Ivy League prices. I still do. Of course, California has pretty good state schools. |
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OldBig5 Masters Student Posts 639 |
03-13-19 10:30 PM - Post#281222
I have always described both USC and Syracuse as state school educations at Ivy League prices. I still do. Of course, California has pretty good state schools. My daughter went to William and Mary--we prefer "public ivy". |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
03-13-19 11:58 PM - Post#281228
The Penn situation is perplexing. The student may have put down truthful information in his application, but shouldn't he have known that it was inappropriate (or at least odd) for a Division 1 head coach to fly to his home and be his personal coach? Rich people think differently. They are used to stuff you or I may find unusual or improper. The kid very well may have found it normal. Remember Preston Trout? His dad assembled an entire top notch AAU team. I was just thinking about that case and was wondering... |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
03-14-19 08:52 AM - Post#281251
Some update articles - Penn Athletics declines to further comment on Jerome Allen investigation https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/03/penn- jerome-... Furda says Penn will revisit admissions procedures in light of national bribery scandal https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/03/upenn -admiss... Here's a previous DP article from 10/2018 where Furda talks about reviews for his department Dean Furda on Jerome Allen bribery scandal: 'safeguards' are needed to prevent future incidents https://www.thedp.com/article/2018/10/jerom e-allen... Editorial | The college admissions process is broken, and Penn is no exception https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/03/opera tion-va... Bribery scandal involving ex-Penn coach has students questioning admissions process https://whyy.org/articles/bribery-scan dal-involvin... |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-14-19 12:30 PM - Post#281289
Of course in an earlier era the longtime director of Penn Admissions also stepped down in rather unclear circumstances. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
03-14-19 01:28 PM - Post#281293
You are correct. The Lee Stetson resignation, a year before he was set to retire, is one of Penn's big mysteries. https://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/ 200709... |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-14-19 01:38 PM - Post#281294
It was always rumored that that was a sex harassment issue. Nothing was ever released in terms of a public report, however. |
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OldBig5 Masters Student Posts 639 |
03-16-19 04:27 PM - Post#281688
Can anyone tell me how Jerome still has a job with the Celtics--he has admitted to crimes? |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
03-18-19 10:37 AM - Post#281901
I remember that the Celtics coach and GM spoke in glowing terms about Jerome initially admitted to taking the money. If I recall, they were pleased with how he took ownership of his problem. There were some reports that he would be suspended two weeks because of this, but it is not certain if this actually happened. I don't think the Celtics have put out any comment about Allen since the new information came out. By the way, the DP Editorial Board has come out and asked the Athletics Department to remove his from the Penn Athletics Hall of Fame. https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/03/admis sions-b... - Some may argue that Allen’s achievements as an athlete are not related to his character and moral values and that it is possible to'separate the artist from the art. However, according to the Penn Athletics website, “The University of Pennsylvania Athletic Department established the Penn Athletics Hall of Fame in 1996 to honor the greatest athletes and coaches ever to wear or coach the Red and Blue.†It is up to Penn to define what being a great athlete means, and we believe that should encompass both character and skill. The honor of being a member of the Penn Athletics Hall of Fame should be reserved not only for distinguished athletes, but also those with honorable characters. It devalues the accomplishments of other notable alumni or coaches while Allen — who participated in bribery in order to help someone’s son get into Penn on false pretenses — is allowed to maintain membership. - - Penn has previously removed the names of and revoked honorary degrees from alumni who have allegedly taken part in morally ambiguous practices like Steve Wynn and Bill Cosby. While the circumstances in Allen’s case are much different, it is imperative that the University hold members of the Penn Athletics Hall of Fame to a high standard, and not put those who have committed crimes on a pedestal. When Penn honors a man who has broken federal law, it lowers the bar for the University, and sets a bad precedent for current students. - |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
03-18-19 10:49 AM - Post#281904
I just checked Columbia's Hall of Fame to see if a former All-Ivy QB who was later convicted of securities fraud is in there. He is not. |
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1173 |
03-18-19 10:58 AM - Post#281906
Sid Luckman? |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
03-18-19 11:11 AM - Post#281909
Sid Luckman? https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints /comp1897... My understanding is that he pled guilty to the charges. Granted, it wasn't a given that he would have made the Columbia HOF. But they started it a year or two after his conviction. So... |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8260
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03-18-19 11:38 AM - Post#281914
Even if I ignore the near-demise of the program during his term as coach, I agree Jerome no longer has a place in the Penn HOF or the Big5 HOF for that matter. |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
03-18-19 12:50 PM - Post#281924
I just checked Columbia's Hall of Fame to see if a former All-Ivy QB who was later convicted of securities fraud is in there. He is not. And I fully acknowledge that it's a different situation, but I checked to see if Bryan Randall is in Dartmouth's HOF ("Wearers of the Green"). He is. Although it appears automatic if you get named the college's athlete of the year award (as he did)... |
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SteveChop PhD Student Posts 1155 |
03-18-19 01:06 PM - Post#281925
You are reading the requirement of character into a qualification that does not require this. Do you want Ty Cobb (and others) ejected from the Baseball HOF too? More to the point, I don't recall that Penn returned the money donated to them by Michael Milken who went to jail on federal securities law violations. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-18-19 06:43 PM - Post#281959
I just checked Columbia's Hall of Fame to see if a former All-Ivy QB who was later convicted of securities fraud is in there. He is not. Luckman's father, however, was in fact in trouble with the law. https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-polit ics... |
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JAG Freshman Posts 30 |
03-18-19 07:32 PM - Post#281963
I hope that Jerome Allen's name is not removed from the Palestra display walls. It is easy to ostracize. It is a form of scapegoating, a fear of coming to terms with one's own motivations. And we need to remember that Jerome took the Penn coaching job in the worst circumstances possible. It was to be a one year situation. But when finances prohibited a sensible budget for men's basketball, Jerome stayed on. None of this excuses his part in the scandal, but he needs to have his University acknowledge his contributions, not erase them, despite the blight on his record. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-18-19 09:22 PM - Post#281975
Again, I disagree. And I disagree a lot more strenuously than I do with Otto about the CBI/CIT. I think anyone who betrays his trust and commits a felony in the interest of greed should be shunned and any honors he was given withdrawn. And frankly, I cannot see a serious argument to the contrary. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21214 |
03-18-19 09:34 PM - Post#281980
I think anyone who betrays his trust and commits a felony in the interest of greed should be shunned and any honors he was given withdrawn. I'd first start with most of the named parts of Wharton. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-19-19 08:19 AM - Post#282014
Story gets deeper https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/03/admis sions-s... Esformes paid $400K to Rick Singer's bogus "charity" and discussed having his son take the SATs in Arizona. Can't imagine that he would have paid $400K just to talk to the guy---remember, he was paying Jerome directly (unless Singer also was paying Jerome). |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
03-19-19 10:07 AM - Post#282023
The Chronicle of Higher Education asked 20 elite school Admissions Deans about the scandal: (Trigger Warning - Cornell is not included in the CoHE list of 20 elite schools interviewed) https://www.chronicle.com/article/We-Asked-20-E lit... - Harvard University: A university representative declined to comment. Harvard has not been named in the federal investigation. - - Columbia University: Dean of Undergraduate Admissions and Financial Aid Jessica Marinaccio declined to comment. Columbia has not been named in the federal investigation. - - Princeton University: Acting Dean of Admission Jill Dolan declined to comment. Princeton has not been named in the federal investigation. - - Yale University: Dean of Undergraduate Admissions Jeremiah Quinlan responded to The Chronicle's questions with a written statement. Yale has been named in the federal investigation. "I encourage you to review President [Peter] Salovey's recent messages regarding the investigation, including [Friday's] update regarding our next steps. A collection of frequently asked questions about the case is also available on the website of the Office of the President. I am, of course, committed to working with President Salovey, Director of Athletics Vicky Chun, and other university leaders to prevent this type of fraud from happening again. The coach who was charged no longer works for the university, and there is no indication that any other member of the Yale administration or staff knew about the conspiracy." (Editor's note: In the FAQ, Yale said its athletics director would review coaches' proposed recruits before they were sent to the admissions office and would scrutinize instances in which a recruited athlete did not make a team.) - - Brown University: Dean of Admission Logan Powell responded to The Chronicle's questions. Brown has not been named in the federal investigation. Q. Will your university exert more oversight over how students are designated as athletic recruits in the admissions process? If so, how? A. Our first step was to complete a case-by-case review of every varsity athlete admitted and enrolled as part of the athletic recruitment process over the last four years. That review generated no concerns — fewer than five recruited athletes did not ultimately end up on a varsity athletics roster, and in each case that was due to legitimate reasons such as a major sports injury. As we think of next steps, we are of course looking closely at all our existing processes to identify if there are ways to strengthen what we have in place. It’s too soon to speak definitively about what our assessment might identify or determine, but we are taking this very seriously. Q. Does "Operation Varsity Blues" show a broader need for reform in selective admissions? A. Each institution has to reflect on its own processes. Ultimately, our rigorous, comprehensive and individual review of every prospective student’s qualifications remains essential in enrolling an academically talented and diverse class through a fair and equitable process. We will certainly explore new safeguards and remain vigilant to the potential for fraudulent applications. - - University of Pennsylvania: Dean of Admissions Eric J. Furda responded to The Chronicle's questions. Penn has not been named in the federal investigation. Q. Will your university exert more oversight over how students are designated as athletic recruits in the admissions process? If so, how? A. Yes. Penn Admissions and Penn's Department of Recreation and Intercollegiate Athletics have worked with an outside consultant to review and strengthen our processes for the recruitment of student-athletes. We are further establishing checks and balances within each department and across the departments with standard operating procedures to document, verify and audit the recruitment and evaluation processes for student-athletes. Furthermore, there are lessons learned from this case which can be applied to all candidates, regardless of whether they are recruited student-athletes. As an example, similar to the Fafsa verification process, selected applicants can be chosen for further vetting randomly or because of inconsistencies in a student's application. Finally, we will not be naïve to think that all people will act in the manner in which we hope they should or underestimate how persuasive some people can be in trying to influence the admissions process. Operation Varsity Blues may also, hopefully, demonstrate to others who may try to manipulate the system that there are no shortcuts and that their actions will eventually come to light, with heavy repercussions. Q. Does "Operation Varsity Blues" show a broader need for reform in selective admissions? A. Yes, there is a broader need for reform in highly selective admissions. Operation Varsity Blues, along with litigation and court cases currently pending centered around highly selective admissions, exposes the deepening divide across our country along socioeconomic, geographic and racial lines. These gulfs have only deepened since the 2008 global financial crisis. The sense of zero-sum competition and winner-take-all to gain admission to "the 20 most selective universities" adds to this divide and is detrimental to the fabric of our nation and, most regrettably, damaging to our children. As educators we need to highlight and celebrate the range of options in American higher education, from community colleges which can become a path to a four-year degree, [to] our flagship state university systems and private institutions, that should be measured by their graduation rates rather than admit rates. Once we admit students to our institutions, we need to make sure all of our students, regardless of background, are entering into a supportive learning environment where they can find their own voices and learn from those who have different lived experiences. In this way, they will be better prepared for the lives they will enter into as young adults. - - Dartmouth College: A university representative responded to The Chronicle's questions. Dartmouth has not been named in the federal investigation. Q. Will your university exert more oversight over how students are designated as athletic recruits in the admissions process? If so, how? A. Dartmouth is proud of its athletic program and the academic accomplishment of its student athletes. That achievement is fostered by a rigorous practice and protocols designed to yield students capable of succeeding on and off the field. In light of these revelations, the athletics office is redoubling its efforts to ensure the integrity and strength of that process. We are committed to formalizing the protocols for administrative approval of each recruit and an annual review of all first-year students who were recruited athletes to ensure that they appear on the appropriate team roster. Q. Does "Operation Varsity Blues" show a broader need for reform in selective admissions? A. "Operation Varsity Blues" has uncovered a sophisticated fraud scheme. Our review process of each application is rigorous, multifaceted, and thorough. Dartmouth remains vigilant to the potential for fraud; committed to the energetic response to, and investigation of, any allegations of misconduct; and proactive in working to prevent fraud within our own institutional processes. In addition, we encourage the admissions testing agencies in their efforts to carry out their prevention efforts. - Here is the Yale FAQ page: https://president.yale.edu/frequently-asked-ques ti... |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4914 |
03-19-19 03:24 PM - Post#282092
A satirist's ignorance trips her up, although her delivery is pretty good: https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/a-statement- fr... |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
03-21-19 09:15 AM - Post#282305
It looks like Jerome has some company. Former University of San Diego coach Lamont Smith allegedly took $100,000 from a real estate developer to get his son, who does not play basketball, into the school as a recruit athlete. Smith, who was serving as an assistant at UTEP, resigned as soon as the school was notified by USD yesterday. He resigned from USD last year after he was charged with domestic assault following an encounter he had after a game at USF. The charges were dropped, but he still resigned. From what I remember, he resigned because his having the affair did not look good for a religious based school. https://www.10news.com/news/local-news/forme r-univ... |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
03-21-19 09:34 AM - Post#282308
From what I remember, he resigned because his having the affair did not look good for a religious based school. At which schools does it look good?
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
03-21-19 09:53 AM - Post#282310
That's a good one! |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-21-19 10:10 AM - Post#282313
Well, the assault doesn't look good, anyway. |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
03-28-19 09:35 AM - Post#282953
Am willing to bet that Esformes is the student referred in the second and third paragraphs here. https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the... |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
03-28-19 10:06 AM - Post#282956
Sure looks that way. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
04-01-19 09:27 AM - Post#283138
The Miami Herald notes that the Esformes trial is heading to a jury today. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article228 5... There was a bit of Allen-centric information in its trial summary. - Perhaps the most riveting testimony at Esformes’ trial came from a former University of Pennsylvania basketball coach, Jerome Allen, who got to know the businessman through a fellow coach who trained his son. He testified that Esformes paid him about $300,000 in cash bribes and wire transfers to place his son, Morris, on a priority list as a “recruited basketball player†so he could be accepted to Penn and its exclusive Wharton School. Allen, now an assistant basketball coach with the Boston Celtics, said Morris Esformes was not cut out for Division I basketball but he still put him on a short list of five recruits to get him into the Ivy League school. Morris Esformes didn’t make the team after entering in the fall of 2015 but he is expected to graduate this spring. Allen, who was fired in March 2015 after a string of losing seasons before Esformes’ son started at Penn, pleaded guilty to a bribery-related money-laundering charge. He will be sentenced in April. - Here is an article from Think Progress on how a recent decision from another Penn person may influence the trial. I'll leave it to the lawyers on this board to interpret the information. https://thinkprogress.org/trump-obamacare-medic are... |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8260
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04-01-19 04:43 PM - Post#283157
Incredible... |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
04-05-19 11:00 AM - Post#283307
New allegations--Harvard fencing coach: https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/04/0... |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
04-05-19 12:10 PM - Post#283316
Probably just a matter of time before this type of thing is uncovered at all the Ivies... I imagine that the father was really, really, really unhappy to get that phone call from the Globe reporter asking for comment. |
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10Q Professor Posts 23405 |
04-05-19 12:31 PM - Post#283320
Giving new meaning to "fencing". |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
04-05-19 01:01 PM - Post#283324
Philip Esformes faced 26 charges and was found guilty of 20 this morning. Jurors did not reach a verdict on the main count of Medicare fraud. The Miami Herald article notes that even without the Medicare fraud conviction, he could still spend the rest of his life in jail. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article228 7... |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
04-17-19 08:41 AM - Post#283708
Looking back at Go Green's 3/28/19 post, it would seem that the 2nd, 3rd and 13th paragraphs of the WaPo article deal with the PR agent and the younger Esformes. https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the... I wonder if this is part of the PR strategy: https://hitechwiki.com/2019/04/morris-esform es-on-... https://morris-esformes.com/ |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
04-18-19 10:08 AM - Post#283744
In the WaPo article: - Classic public relations is proactive — getting a client’s name in newspapers and on television, helping them become the go-to expert everyone wants to interview. Crisis communication is very different: Sometimes you’re trying to keep a client out of the public eye or working with reporters to offer another narrative. - - His solution is online reputation management and search engine optimization, which is a fancy way of saying, make sure that anyone doing a search for the kid (say, a potential employer) will find a lot about his or her life, hobbies, charitable work and more before they discover the link to the college bribery scandal. - - So Engelmayer finds the positive details in the students’ lives that can be pulled out and created as new websites with domain names. That way, the first entries that appear during an online search are these pretty pages full of photos and well-written material. - Mr. Engelmayer seems to be doing his job well. Googling the younger Esformes today comes up with this article as the #1 listing. https://thriveglobal.com/stories/upenn-student -mor... The interview article linked here yesterday is now the 5th item when his name is placed in the search engine. |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
04-18-19 02:36 PM - Post#283764
Mr. Engelmayer seems to be doing his job well. Googling the younger Esformes today comes up with this article as the #1 listing. https://thriveglobal.com/stories/upenn-student -mor... The interview article linked here yesterday is now the 5th item when his name is placed in the search engine. Until I read that WaPo article, I had no idea that such a market existed. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
04-19-19 07:42 AM - Post#283789
It's been a market for years, though maybe not so much at the collegiate level. This episode just exposes the illegal activities performed to get advantaged kids into good universities and not the legal ways to buy your way to a diploma at a top university. It shows how much of a joke the Harvard admissions lawsuit is - the problem isn't any little advantages given to disadvantaged students but the huge advantages that the well to have. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
04-19-19 07:54 AM - Post#283790
100% correct on the Harvard Lawsuit |
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mbaprof Senior Posts 345 |
04-19-19 03:25 PM - Post#283817
doesnt seem to be working so well when i google him BTW if the content here is indicative, the level of research and writing in these blog posts and web sites does bring into question how strong an academic applicant to Wharton young Mo was. |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
04-20-19 09:13 PM - Post#283831
Yeah, it looked like it was written by a 5th grader. |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
04-20-19 09:14 PM - Post#283832
Yeah, it looked like it was written by a 5th grader. Then again, some of my housemates were pretty poor writers too and they got very good grades. It may not have been a Penn prerequisite to be able to write. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4914 |
04-20-19 09:19 PM - Post#283833
I knew a couple of people who made extra dough back in the day typing up the final copy of other students' senior theses (yep, on typewriter). They were not universally impressed with the writing or analytical abilities of the authors. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
05-02-19 09:02 AM - Post#284100
Here's the latest PR piece on/about Morris Esformes, which is the 2nd one placed at the Thrive Global website. https://thriveglobal.com/stories/morris-esform es-g... With graduation just over 3 weeks away and no word on when/if Penn will release its findings on the Allen investigation, it would seem that the university is going to allow this young man to graduate. I guess the school has the right to take away his degree in the future, but it seems doubtful if they haven't done anything by now. Quite frustrating. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
05-02-19 09:02 AM - Post#284101
By the way - wasn't Jerome supposed to be sentenced in mid-April? |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
05-02-19 09:30 AM - Post#284103
honestly, rbg, i have a hard time yanking a degree from someone 4 years minus 3 weeks into their tenure if they are in good academic standing. setting aside how much a 17 year old knew about this and how much we hold against a 17 year old, we know plenty of people have gotten penn degrees through the largesse of their parents, the difference was the guy bribed/donated less? |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
05-02-19 09:58 AM - Post#284106
I understand your point, and I would agree if things were being done behind the scenes without this young man's knowledge. While he many not have been aware of the paper bags filled with money and the private conversations between his father and Allen, this kid knew that a Division 1 college coach (from his #1 school) was coming down to visit and personally coach him. I would think that any athlete involved in the world of college recruiting, especially someone with his intelligence and family affluence, would know this. As a result, I feel his situation is in a different category from those cases where a parent and other adult(s) conspired to doctor test results and applications without a young adult's knowledge. In his case, I believe he was knowingly part of a fraudulent application and the school has the right to remove that student or remove the degree from one who has graduated. If the Penn investigation reveals that this person truly did not know what was going on, then I would be open to changing my view. FWIW, here is a story from a student that attended Cornell and two other schools that had her degree rescinded when she was found to have lied on her application: https://cornellsun.com/2017/10/20/former-cor nell-s... |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
05-02-19 10:16 AM - Post#284109
guess it's just an issue of degree or whatever vs kind. To me, I see the Cornell student and I think that's on such a different planet of wrongdoing whereas you probably just see it as being more egregious than Esformes. I see donating a building to bribing a basketball coach as just different degrees of the same issue. There's one other issue here that just makes the thing so dumb/rotten: my understanding is that every year, any Ivy coach has their pick of mediocre basketball players with 4.0 GPA that they will use as AI boosters. It essentially doesn't matter who they pick from the coach's persepective, that person will never play. It also doesn't really matter from the school's perspective because all of these 4.0 people are "qualified" to enter, and some certainly could get in even without being designated as a recruit, but their candidacy goes from 50/50 or 40/60 or whatever to 100%. Is that a fair representation of what's going on? To me then, it's completely plausible that a mediocre basketball player would find this all normal. If Esformes grades were below average, that becomes a different situation about how irritated I get, but even still, I'm not completely sure I'd yank his diploma unless he knew about cash. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
05-02-19 11:37 AM - Post#284112
I definitely agree that the former Cornell student's situation was lying on a different level. I was just highlighting it to show that schools can reach back and remove degrees if they find out about falsification of applications. I also agree that the large dollar donation to a school seems like a bribe. The main differences are that the donation is above board and the product(s) of the donation can be utilized by other students in the form of things like a building, an endowed teaching position or scholarships. I completely understand your point and ultimately feel we are close in our views on this specific case, just on different sides of the midline. Maybe the findings of the investigation will provide more clarity. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8260
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05-02-19 12:19 PM - Post#284116
I agree with Jeff on this one FWIW |
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Silver Maple Postdoc Posts 3779 |
05-02-19 02:05 PM - Post#284120
I agree with Jeff on this one FWIW Second that. Unless it can be established beyond a reasonable doubt that the kid knew about the bribe, I can't see kicking him out of school. This just isn't the same as cheating on a test or submitting a fraudulent application. I'm not saying it's OK, just that I think that, in this specific case, expelling this student seems like a disproportionate penalty. |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
05-03-19 02:12 AM - Post#284130
This one is tricky. I formerly thought you couldn't kick him out, as he may not have known about it. Now I think you have to do it, as it was a blatant bribe. The behavior of the father absolutely cannot be rewarded. I don't wish for the son to suffer for his father's sins, but it is direct cause (bribe) and effect (admissions). The one difference between this and the Varsity Blues cases is that the son may not have lied on his application. He played basketball, and provided he answered truthfully about his teams and roles, his application may not have been fraudulent. Then again, the father employed Singer and who knows what they said on the application. Nevertheless, a fraud was still committed. I also think the AI admits are a workaround that essentially makes a mockery of the AI. I'd rather that they just lower the AI than resort to these shenanigans. It's probable that all schools do it, but then why do we need the AI if everyone bypasses it? If not all schools do this, then it gives an unfair advantage. Either way, it sucks. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
05-03-19 08:52 AM - Post#284134
Shouldn't the student be held responsible for receiving personal and continued instruction from the head coach of the University of Pennsylvania (his desired school), which is completely unethical and against NCAA rules? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
05-03-19 09:21 AM - Post#284138
I think Penn could expel or take a diploma away from him. I do not believe it will. Too many kids who are admittable get in with various forms of inside help over other admittable kids who do not. If he were not otherwise admittable, like those Full House kids at USC, that would be a different story. But it appears that he got in in a manner that made sure he got in but he well could have been admitted especially had he applied early decision. It probably would open up a can of worms if they expelled him since he would sue, and expose all forms of line-crossing. This should cause some serious self-reflection on the part of Penn and all other schools in which similar things have happened, but I do not believe they will expel or take away his diploma. |
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Jeff2sf Postdoc Posts 4466 |
05-03-19 10:19 AM - Post#284140
I think Penn could expel or take a diploma away from him. I do not believe it will. Too many kids who are admittable get in with various forms of inside help over other admittable kids who do not. If he were not otherwise admittable, like those Full House kids at USC, that would be a different story. But it appears that he got in in a manner that made sure he got in but he well could have been admitted especially had he applied early decision. It probably would open up a can of worms if they expelled him since he would sue, and expose all forms of line-crossing. This should cause some serious self-reflection on the part of Penn and all other schools in which similar things have happened, but I do not believe they will expel or take away his diploma. this is what i was getting at. the whole system is rotten. as a kid he's innocent (in the same biblical way as original sin or whatever)... but in a few years he'll just be part of the system and tainted by it like WE ARE. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
05-03-19 10:56 AM - Post#284143
The problem is that there is no perfect system. Penn is deciding among kids who are not objectively distinguishable. Once you bring in subjective criteria, there is really no line you can draw. Frankly, as a private institution, I support the right of Penn (and Harvard--which is a defendant in a law suit brought hypocritically by those who benefit from most of the subjective criteria but object to different subjective criteria) to determine its class and leave it to its trustees, alumni and faculty to determine whether the line drawing is appropriate. In that regard, I wonder whether the plaintiffs in the Harvard suit would want to continue the suit if they knew that Harvard would decide admissions purely on numbers and not on legacy, donations or any other similar type of criteria. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
05-03-19 12:00 PM - Post#284147
I know I'm harping on this, but I just don't feel the young man is innocent. We do not know what he did or didn't know about any payments from his father to Jerome, but he did know that a Division 1 coach was acting as his personal coach and that is absolutely inappropriate. To me, that act completely makes his acceptable grades/board scores/recommendations in his college application and his positive grades at Penn irrelevant. I am absolutely sure that Penn will look to quietly give this young man his diploma, send him on his way, and move on from this whole debacle. However, in my opinion, it does not make it the right decision. |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3619
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05-03-19 02:29 PM - Post#284153
He’s done all the real hard work to earn his degree and by all accounts has been a good student in and out of the classroom. He also is pretty #%$@ in general. His dad is going to jail for a long time if not forever, he isn’t going to see family money, it will take every future potential employer 10 seconds of a google search to often disqualify him... he will need brave people/employers to even take a chance on hiring him and this will be a part of his life he can’t escape moving forward. Not letting the kid at least get his degree he earned through the work (it was the entry that was rigged, not his degree) would just be cruel and unusual punishment at this point. All those above reasons that make this a disaster for the kid will be the best possible deterrent anyway. Taking his degree away would be more about making you feel better that Penn “did something†than it would be about making an actual difference. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
05-03-19 02:41 PM - Post#284154
I lean in your direction, considering the evidence we have. If there is any evidence that his academic qualifications were phony, that would be a different story. But I had a roommate who was recruited to Penn as a lacrosse player, got in and never went out for the team--never had any intention of playing in college. Got a Wharton degree and became a CFO of a pretty large company. Probably wouldn't have gotten in otherwise. The difference here is the father's payoff of Jerome to designate the kid. So unless the kid was involved in the bribery scheme all you have is what others do all the time....misrepresent their intention to play a sport. Not enough to take his degree away (plus everything I said above about Penn getting sued and looking bad). The exception would be if the payoff to the mastermind of the scheme involved a fraudulent test or grade. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
05-03-19 03:21 PM - Post#284155
I understand your point, but the decision to expel should absolutely not be based on whether any of us feel better or not. I also don't believe the decision should be based on how well the student did in his time at the university. While he may have objectively been a competitive applicant, did well when he got to Penn, and has a father who may be heading to federal prison for the rest of his days, the student still got into the school on a fraudulent manner - knowingly having the Penn head coach be his personal coach. While I greatly appreciate all those who are looking at this situation from the subjective aspect of the young man, I think for Penn to ignore this seems like a dangerous precedent. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
05-03-19 03:28 PM - Post#284156
You're not responding to my post---how can you expel or deny him a diploma if he has the right not to go out for basketball after being a basketball recruit, unless you have evidence that he knew of the bribe or committed academic fraud? Admissions have nothing to do with NCAA rules, and that is all you are relying on with respect to his participation. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
05-03-19 03:44 PM - Post#284157
You are correct, I was responding to Mike post. He certainly has the right to not go out for the team and not jeopardize his right to be at the school, if he was a legitimate recruit. Even if he did not know of the bribe or commit academic fraud, he knowingly had the Penn head coach come to his house and be his personal coach from 2013-2015. This was the fraudulent way that he got Eric Furda and the Admissions Department to give him access into the school. If Jerome received money from the father without the student's knowledge and Jerome never flew down to give the young man personal coaching, then I would say that he should be allowed to stay and graduate. For me, the fact that he was aware of Jerome's personal involvement is the deciding factor since it makes him a part of the fraud. I would think the Admissions Department of the 8 schools are well aware that recruited athletes may never actually suit up. It's the price of doing business in a non-scholarship conference. But this seems like something that they would consider beyond the pale. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
05-03-19 03:47 PM - Post#284158
Yes, but that is just an NCAA rule--not a Penn rule. As far as I know, there is nothing wrong with contact with a professor or other Penn official prior to admission. He may have been ineligible to play basketball, but I don't see what that has to do with his admission status. Again, unless he was buying exam scores or there is proof of his actual knowledge of bribery, I think we don't have enough to expel. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
05-03-19 03:56 PM - Post#284159
I understand that he is going to suffer the loss of his father to jail and it will be a challenge for him to start his career. If he appropriately makes amends for his part in all of this, I would hope that there would be people in the business world who would give him a chance. I would also hope that there are people who are family connections that know who he is and would be able to assist him in getting opportunities. So far, there has been no form of apology from the young man. In fact, it is worse since his family has hired a PR group to have people look the other way. If I was an employer, I might see those issues as more damning than the mistakes of a 16-18 year old. For those that disagree with my view(s) on this, do you feel the school should do anything to a student that had some direct part in this? |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
05-03-19 05:30 PM - Post#284162
I'm mostly with rbg on this. I am not out to ruin a young man's life. But the impropriety was there - cash was exchanged in violation of school policy. That is why it is part of wire fraud charges. The school's response needs to impact both the offending coach and those that benefitted from it. I fully understand that he has gotten fine grades. I think a large population of people can succeed at Penn. I fully understand that he is days from graduation. The crime took place, and he was admitted on that basis. Even if the crime was discovered 10 years from now, his diploma would need to be rescinded. This is about maintaining equity for the broad student population, not about hurting the young man. I think others are wrong about his life being ruined. First of all, his dad will not lose the family fortune over this. He was wealthy well beyond anything the government will claim back for restitution and penalties. Wealthy people get by just fine in this country, regardless of their past record. The family has enough money to live very well without employment - purely on investment income. How many other students could hire a PR team to help try to repair their reputation? The young man may or may not deserve the punishment based on his own actions and knowledge, but there still needs to be accountability and consequences. This was not just a regular athletic recruit deciding not to play. That is within their rights. It wasn't just someone stretching their athletic resume and capitalizing on their relationships. Big money changed hands here to make this happen. That so clearly crossed the line. If he was qualified without the bribe, that's how they should have applied. The bribe is the problem, not the student's qualifications or performance. Stanford got it right. The fastest way to cure the disease is to remove the tumor.
I understand that he is going to suffer the loss of his father to jail and it will be a challenge for him to start his career. If he appropriately makes amends for his part in all of this, I would hope that there would be people in the business world who would give him a chance. I would also hope that there are people who are family connections that know who he is and would be able to assist him in getting opportunities.
So far, there has been no form of apology from the young man. In fact, it is worse since his family has hired a PR group to have people look the other way. If I was an employer, I might see those issues as more damning than the mistakes of a 16-18 year old. For those that disagree with my view(s) on this, do you feel the school should do anything to a student that had some direct part in this? |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
05-07-19 06:19 AM - Post#284237
I know I'm harping on this, but I just don't feel the young man is innocent. We do not know what he did or didn't know about any payments from his father to Jerome, but he did know that a Division 1 coach was acting as his personal coach and that is absolutely inappropriate. He would likely fall under the "probably knew" category here. http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03 /college-adm... |
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91Quake PhD Student Posts 1126 |
05-07-19 07:27 AM - Post#284239
Most of the kids in the "probably did not know" had to have a pretty good idea. You went from 1000 on the PSAT to 1000 on the SAT? You got an 800 (perfect score) on the math PSAT? It's more than a little hard to believe. Also, this line of thinking argues they did not notice on their applications that it indicates they are athletes, much less accomplished enough to get into these schools? So the kids did not look at their applications? That argues someone else filled them out. That ain't kosher either. Kick them all out. With no penalty there is no lesson learned by anyone. There is also no deterrent factor for people who may think about anything like this in the future. Harsh but realistic. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
05-07-19 08:51 AM - Post#284240
Is there evidence of score alterations with the Penn kid? I had not heard that |
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91Quake PhD Student Posts 1126 |
05-07-19 10:07 AM - Post#284248
I was referring to the other cases in the referenced article. But my point is that it is hard to conceive these kids did not know what was going on. Did they orchestrate the actions? Nope, but did they benefit? Definitely. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
05-07-19 01:10 PM - Post#284251
I just disagree that benefit is enough unless there was knowledge and/or participation in the criminal act. Otherwise, it's no different than the myriad of tricks and insider moves that people make to get ahead of the line at these schools. |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
05-08-19 01:00 AM - Post#284283
I just disagree that benefit is enough unless there was knowledge and/or participation in the criminal act. Otherwise, it's no different than the myriad of tricks and insider moves that people make to get ahead of the line at these schools. The difference is that an actual crime was committed. Money changed hands, school employees violated their fiduciary duties, and there was wire fraud to get these kids in. When you bribe a school official, you or your kid should have to go. A person donating big money is doing it with school knowledge, and no employees are pocketing a bribe. You could argue about the fairness, but it is not illegal or in contravention of school policy. If you pay the bribe, your kid has to go. They may be completely innocent and unknowing, but they still have to go. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
05-08-19 04:50 PM - Post#284311
Except that the kid was admittable. He didn't (as far as I know--that would be an automatic expulsion) cheat on his exams as many in the national case did, and he wasn't (like the Full House woman's kids) clearly not qualified except for the bogus crew designation. What amazes me is seeing Jerome Allen walk the Boston sidelines without any consequences, not that this kid will be allowed to graduate. I hear your point, but unless I know that he is involved or cheated on his tests or scores, I let him graduate. |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
05-08-19 05:55 PM - Post#284317
Except that the kid was admittable. He didn't (as far as I know--that would be an automatic expulsion) cheat on his exams as many in the national case did, and he wasn't (like the Full House woman's kids) clearly not qualified except for the bogus crew designation. What amazes me is seeing Jerome Allen walk the Boston sidelines without any consequences, not that this kid will be allowed to graduate. I hear your point, but unless I know that he is involved or cheated on his tests or scores, I let him graduate. I don't dispute whether he was admittable. Unfortunately there are probably 5 to 1 kids who are admittable vs. admitted. Money changed hands here, and we have an admission of guilt from Jerome. I understand your point, but here is my framework. If a seat was paid for by El Chapo through illegal bribes, the degree candidate must go. If El Chapo donated the money to the school, the school made the mistake of accepting it, and they admitted a student, then it's the school's fault and he stays. In this case, it was the parent's fault, a crime was committed in the act of this happening, and the kid must go. As long as he didn't know about it, I feel bad for him - but THIS WAS A CRIME! |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1900 |
05-08-19 06:00 PM - Post#284318
BTW, I'm not sure they should take that action until there is a verdict on Esformes related to this incident. Jerome has already pled guilty, so there are enough facts to take action already - but I wouldn't blame the administration for waiting until Esformes' verdict on this is finished and case is closed. That may or may not be before graduation. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
05-10-19 09:07 AM - Post#284350
Here is a new article on the Allen-Esformes connection at the Florence Standard. I don't think there is anything new, but I will link it due to the conversation that Mr. Esformes had with William Singer, the mastermind of the college bribery scandal. https://florencestandard.com/miami-exec-who-bribed ... In the February 2014 texts, Esformes mentions that his son scored a 2000 on the SAT (then, a 3 part exam with a maximum of 2400) and wanted to know if that was good enough to get into Penn. Singer says that a regular student would need 2200+. As an athlete, he would need 700 across the board. We don't know how Morris Esformes scored when he retook the test. While his score probably went up, like many students who take the test again, going up 200+ points is not easy. I know that Mr. Esformes' lawyer made it known during the trial that Morris was a qualified candidate able to get in without being designated as an athlete. Based on the son's initial scores, he would have been a good candidate, but not one who would have made it into Penn as a regular student. I understand that the young man did well once he got to Penn, but that is not an issue. Many good high school students who are rejected from Penn would do very well if they had somehow gotten to go there. Based on his junior year information, he still needed to be designated an athlete to get into Penn. Until Penn or Mr. Esformes' attorney provide information about his subsequent SAT or ACT exams, I think the lawyer's narrative that Morris Esformes would have gotten into Penn on his own merits should not be accepted. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
05-10-19 09:23 AM - Post#284351
That same article states that Jerome was due to be sentenced on April 16th. Has anyone read anything about Allen being sentenced? If not, do people think that the sentencing will be coming up shortly since the Celtics' season is now over? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
05-10-19 10:02 AM - Post#284355
From the Beating the Dead Horse Dept. We aren't going to agree on whether he should be expelled/diploma revoked absent evidence he knew of the bribery or cooked the numbers on his tests. I can pretty much guarantee that they won't take such action absent such proof. They don't want a lawsuit and what it would be likely to turn up. |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
05-10-19 10:27 AM - Post#284356
I can pretty much guarantee that they won't take such action absent such proof. They don't want a lawsuit and what it would be likely to turn up. Then nobody should be shocked if/when this happens again at Penn in a few years. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
05-10-19 10:46 AM - Post#284357
This happens every year in the Ivies with all teams, since the ridiculous AI rules almost force teams to recruit players who have no shot at making the court in order to boost the AI. You show me the line that is crossed from the viewpoint of this kid and others who play high school ball and are recruited under the (wink-wink) basis that they "may" play. And look at what is happening to Harvard in the lawsuit against it---the lawsuit is ridiculous, but turns up that Harvard makes exceptions all over the place to objective standards. Again, if there is evidence that he knew of the bribery or cheated in any way on his application or tests, that is completely different. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8260
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 05-10-19 11:05 AM - Post#284358
The AI guys get 1 minute on Senior Night and at the end of blowouts. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
05-10-19 11:14 AM - Post#284359
To paraphrase, it's clear Esformes Jr. was admitted to Penn fraudulently. Those who clearly committed crimes are making their way through the judicial system. Esformes Jr. isn't presently accused of committing a crime. Esformes isn't necessarily an innocent but that doesn't mean there enough evidence to convict him of a crime (those of you who have bothered to keep up with the Mueller investigation should understand there's a difference, excuse me for the non-basketball divergence). Should Penn pursue anything against Esformes Jr. regardless? As much as I empathize with the hardliners because Esformes Jr is probably not entirely innocent, palestra38 has a salient point. Penn is in a tough spot here without more to go on. And palestra38's point about AI stuffing is also relevant because that's how Allen was able to get away with an argument that Esformes should be a basketball recruit. It's one of the nasty side effects of our current recruiting process, along with the drying up of the public city high school pipeline. Willie Oliphant is still the last Penn recruit from a Philly public HS, it's not a coincidence that he was just barely pre-AI. I sincerely hope this is a one-off across all the Ivies but doubt it. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
05-10-19 12:06 PM - Post#284363
I think most of us are aware of the skills sets for the AI recruits that we see introduced each fall. The coaches (head coaches and assistants) are definitely aware that these recruits are not the most elite athletes on their lists. However, during the trial, I believe Jerome mentioned that his assistants were surprised about Esformes being on the recruiting list. If they were questioning this, then the student would seem to have been below the athletic standard they hold for their own AI boosting athletes. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
05-10-19 12:09 PM - Post#284364
But he did play HS basketball, unlike the fake crew and fencing situations in the national lawsuit. Again, the fact that Jerome's assistants may have thought this kid below even AI packing par is not a reflection of the kid, but of Jerome. |
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
05-15-19 11:27 AM - Post#284525
The Georgetown kid has reportedly sued the school to prevent any negative action against him as a result of the scandal. https://www.yahoo.com/news/georgetown-stude nt-enme... |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
06-28-19 10:36 AM - Post#285441
I don't believe there is any news on the Allen-Esformes front. Some interesting Celtics coaching moves over the last few days. Celtics assistant coach Micah Shrewsberry left to go to Purdue during the off season. This past week, the C's hired Joe Mazzulla and Kara Lawson as assistant coaches. Mazzulla coached at Fairmont State for last last few years and was an assistant for the Celtics' G-League team before that. Lawson is an ESPN analyst who played for Pat Summitt at Tennessee and won titles in the WNBA and Olympics. With the Celtics now having one more assistant than they did last season, do people who follow pro basketball think the team will keep one extra coach or will someone on the present staff leave/be let go? |
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DCAJedi Masters Student Posts 582 |
07-01-19 06:57 PM - Post#285492
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article232 1...
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mbaprof Senior Posts 345 |
07-02-19 06:08 AM - Post#285502
Tough to be an nba assistant under house arrest |
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Stuart Suss PhD Student Posts 1439 |
07-02-19 09:01 AM - Post#285509
This is the sentencing memorandum filed on behalf of Jerome Allen. It is a document prepared by Jerome's attorneys constituting their official statement of reasons why Jerome should be sentenced to probation rather than to the 4 months of jail time recommended by federal sentencing guidelines. The PreSentence Investigation Report is a standard document prepared by probation officers in criminal cases, which provides background and biographical information about the defendant, for consideration by the sentencing judge. Unlike in many cases, Jerome Allen's guilty plea did not include an agreed upon sentence. The prosecutors argued for 4 months' imprisonment. Jerome Allen's attorneys argued for probation. The judge imposed a probationary sentence, restitution in the amount of $18,000 representing the one count to which Jerome Allen pled guilty, and a $202,000 fine representing other moneys illegally received by Jerome Allen that were not specifically included in the guilty plea. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32840 |
07-02-19 12:53 PM - Post#285514
He got more than probation, however--the article states that he got 6 months of house arrest. Without going to the actual sentence, the term usually used in the law is "home confinement", which can take the form of curfew, home detention and home incarceration, ranging from most mild to most serious. Unless the form of confinement he received is curfew, it is hard to see how he can stay in a role as assistant coach (unless they allow him to serve it all in the off-season). |
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Penn7277 PhD Student Posts 1365 |
07-02-19 03:11 PM - Post#285525
It was just reported on NPR. |
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Stuart Suss PhD Student Posts 1439 |
07-02-19 03:41 PM - Post#285530
In the federal system, as in Pennsylvania, house arrest is frequently combined with work release privileges. The defendant is allowed to leave the house during specified hours for work, or for education or for other purposes approved by the court. It will be interesting to learn how work release is adjusted for an NBA schedule involving day time practices followed by night time games, or for road trips, or for games in Canada. Perhaps, as has been suggested, house arrest will be served in installments, during the off-season, over the course of the four year probationary period. When bail was set, the bail conditions specifically permitted Jerome Allen to travel to road games and to retain his passport for travel to Canada. |
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SteveChop PhD Student Posts 1155 |
07-02-19 06:49 PM - Post#285537
The Inquirer article also mentions 600 hours of community service (in addition to the house arrest and probationary time). I'm not a criminal lawyer so I don't know how that works - does he do it and report it to his probation officer? |
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Stuart Suss PhD Student Posts 1439 |
07-03-19 12:09 PM - Post#285551
Yesterday, Rob Browne at IvyHoopsOnline.com reported the following: <<Ivy Hoops Online reported early Tuesday morning on Jerome Allen’s sentencing in federal court for accepting bribes from a Florida businessman to place his son on the Quakers’ recruited athletes list. At the conclusion of the article, we noted that Allen’s name was no longer on the online list of Penn Athletics Hall of Fame honorees. While Allen’s individual Hall of Fame page was still accessible, his name could not be found on the site’s Listing of Hall of Fame inductees by sport.>> This morning, Jerome Allen's individual Hall of Fame page no longer appears to be accessible. |
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Bryan Junior Posts 233 |
07-03-19 01:53 PM - Post#285556
Article about the case in the Inquirer today. https://www.inquirer.com/news/jerome-allen-sen tenc... |
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section110 Masters Student Posts 847 |
07-03-19 02:51 PM - Post#285560
Ivy Hoops Online has two articles on it. |
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SteveChop PhD Student Posts 1155 |
07-03-19 03:09 PM - Post#285561
There was this article in the DP noting Jerome's removal from the Penn Athletics Hall of Fame https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/07/penn- athleti... |
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1173 |
07-03-19 03:46 PM - Post#285566
Is Michael Milken still in the Wharton Hall of Fame? |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3059 |
07-03-19 04:54 PM - Post#285568
Most likely not - https://www.thedp.com/article/2015/09/donal d-trump... - 1991: Trump’s photo is stolen from Wharton’s Hall of Fame that once stood in Steinberg-Dietrich Hall. According to a report by the DP on the theft, “The portraits, selected by Wharton undergraduates and graduates, honor Wharton alumni who have benefited the community.†Among the few honored alongside Trump were Supreme Court Justice William Brennan, Jon Huntsman Sr. and Michael Milken. (Milken’s portrait had previously been stolen and replaced — and later removed by administrators in 1990 after he pleaded guilty to six felony charges.) - The original article on the stolen Trump photo is at this link. It was written by Stephen Glass, the future disgraced journalist at the New Republic. https://www.thedp.com/article/1991/03/trum_ photo_s... - The 16 honored alumni are: Walter Annenberg, William Brennan, I.W. Burnham II, August Busch III, Jon Huntsman, Reginald Jones, Robert Crandall, Yotaru Kobayashi, Peter O'Malley, William Paley, Edmund Pratt, Charles Sanford, John Sculley III, Saul Steinberg, Laurence Tisch and Donald Trump. - A writer at the DP recommended putting Milken's photo back up in 2004. https://www.thedp.com/article/2004/10/whart ons_mos... |
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1173 |
07-03-19 05:29 PM - Post#285570
Hell of a lineup there. How is Raj Rajaratnum not in the HOF? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raj_Rajaratnam |
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mbaprof Senior Posts 345 |
07-03-19 05:51 PM - Post#285571
raj was my student as was michael milken Ironically the prosecutor of raj, preet bharara, now founder of one of my companies Time for wharton to do a new hall of fame , that doesnt feature old white men, some who inherited it |
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