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Eric Von Zipper Senior Posts 343 |
12-17-18 09:34 PM - Post#269325
Opens Duke -29 1/2 |
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sparman PhD Student Posts 1347 
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12-17-18 10:37 PM - Post#269328
I'm having trouble understanding the need for a half point added to a 29 point spread. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-17-18 10:43 PM - Post#269329
For all we know it could have been heavy Princeton money bringing it down from 36. |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
12-17-18 10:51 PM - Post#269330
I remember watching the Yale-Duke game with Yale up by 1 pt with 8 minutes left in the first half and thought that the Bulldogs were going to get killed as they simply could not handle Duke's pressure on Phils, Copeland and Oni as the primary ball handlers. Duke outscored Yale 50-24 in the 2nd half. It will be interesting to see if the Dukies do the same or worse to the Tigers. In a perfect world based on the height and size of the Duke front court, it would be better if the Tigers could go with just two guards, Llewellyn and Cannady with Arirguzoh, Much and Stephens up front but if the pressure is too much, Morales will be in there. It really comes down to how well Jaelin can handle the pressure as Morales may get engulfed by the size of Duke. There is a possibility that Stephens may get limited playing time as he played only 23 minutes against Iona and something may be going on with his knee and/or legs. Tigers obviously need Myles who was the best player on the floor less than 2 years ago in the inaugural IvyMadness. Nice to see Llewellyn get his first Ivy Rookie of the week award but hopefully, he gets player of the week awards as well especially during the IL season. Bella is now 2 for 2 for player of the week since returning from injury. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-18-18 05:23 AM - Post#269336
Important not to get rattled by dunks or turnovers and move on to the next play. This would be a great time to rediscover the wonders of accurate backdoor passing and hard cuts, but I don't think that can be turned on like a faucet when needed. Probably need to mix up defenses to keep the young Duke players guessing. Barrett is basically unguardable one-on-one by anyone the Tigers have (Kentucky had that problem too) so man defense is going to be quite a challenge. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-18-18 05:34 AM - Post#269337
The Tigers sound like they are being realistic about their chances. Not sure that's an altogether good thing. https://www.trentonian.com/sports/princeton-men- s-... |
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AntiUngvar Masters Student Posts 530 |
12-18-18 09:21 AM - Post#269341
They don't need to share their truest feelings with no any of us. Understated confidence may be best. Tigers will be fine. |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
12-18-18 10:49 AM - Post#269343
Probably the right attitude going into the game is to protect the ball, box out and most importantly, keep your composure. The likelihood of this game being close for the Tigers or any IL team is probably slim and none but hopefully it will be a learning experience. Will be intersesting to see if Duke has 16 steals and the Tigers commit 23 turnovers like Yale did at Cameron. You do not want to go into this game tight as it will make it even more difficult. Play it and put it in your scrap book. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-18-18 02:10 PM - Post#269366
There's a difference between being loose and expecting to get blown out. Not being shattered by a likely loss is healthy; an "oh well, they're too good" mindset is not likely to be conducive to preventing a blowout in the first place. |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
12-18-18 04:31 PM - Post#269377
ESPN has put a piece if the Duke freshmen better than Michigan's Fab Five. Nice timing. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-18-18 05:55 PM - Post#269386
That so-called Fab Five group--highly, highly overrated. Could never stand the media attention they got or still get. Forget the number of national championships they won (zero). Guess how many Big Ten championships they won? |
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Okoro Dude Senior Posts 309 |
12-18-18 06:07 PM - Post#269387
Would be fun to see them keep it close, but three things they have done well historically that they are not doing well at all this year will kill them against Duke: 1. Defensive rebounding 2. Transition defense 3. Guarding three-point line The only way it's close is if they shoot lights out - hard to do that under pressure for 40 minutes |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32834 |
12-18-18 06:40 PM - Post#269395
A team that reaches the Final Game twice in a row is not overrated. Over-hyped? For sure. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3585 |
12-18-18 06:44 PM - Post#269396
Yea, hard to say the Fab Five was over rated. They also had 3 of those five were All Stars in the NBA. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-18-18 07:13 PM - Post#269399
Near optimal start. Stephens getting off and backdoors galore. OK halfcourt D with a couple of blocks and a drawn charge. |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
12-18-18 07:25 PM - Post#269400
Getting ball up court ok but passes are sloppy |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-18-18 07:27 PM - Post#269401
I like the fight being shown at the defensive rim. Even when Duke gets second and third shots, the Tigers are denying anything easy. Don't know if Aririguzoh and Stephens can keep doing that without wearing down, but it's impressive. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-18-18 07:33 PM - Post#269402
Cannot buy a trey lately. Need Cannady to get off a little bit. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-18-18 07:38 PM - Post#269403
Never won a single title of any kind. |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
12-18-18 07:40 PM - Post#269404
Should be able to get Devin free for 3s |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-18-18 07:42 PM - Post#269405
Cannady heating up, but the D is disintegrating. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-18-18 07:47 PM - Post#269406
Pretty funny that Duke could basically hand check foul Princeton to death during that last possession of the half and still not get in the 1 and 1. That probably does not happen too often in college basketball. |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
12-18-18 07:52 PM - Post#269407
Overmatched but not the least bit embarrassed. Needed to get 3s and make 3s but long arms and fast feet on defense by duckies. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-18-18 07:54 PM - Post#269408
Duke is also getting some pretty choice shot selections. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-18-18 08:04 PM - Post#269409
Well, that escalated quickly. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-18-18 08:07 PM - Post#269410
The brightest spot is Stephens looks like the guy from years past. Movement off the ball is waning on offense, which is leading to more turnovers and blocked shots. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-18-18 08:20 PM - Post#269411
Stephens in years past was always the guy I worried about the most. Had not heard too much about his play this year. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-18-18 08:28 PM - Post#269412
When you're down 36 with 9 minutes to play, they should invoke the mercy rule. Just not fair. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001 
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12-18-18 08:47 PM - Post#269416
Sparse Duke student section chants in last couple of minutes: “More Than Double!†“We Want Harvard!†|
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-18-18 08:49 PM - Post#269417
On one hand, if I'm Yale or Princeton I have to think long and hard about wanting to do this again any time soon. On the other, I have zero respect for Duke as it is emulating the worst practices of SEC football, which refuses to schedule a single true road game anywhere except for out of conference. That Duke basketball could win a national championship without playing a single true road game (OOC) is a joke. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-18-18 08:55 PM - Post#269418
Princeton had the lead in this one 18-16. From that point on, they got outscored 85-32, mostly by Duke's subs. Oy. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-18-18 08:55 PM - Post#269419
OTOH, what I respect about Duke is how they keep trying to increase the margin of victory no matter what the score. One reason they almost never yak up a big lead is that they never relax or take the opponent for granted. |
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Chip Bayers Professor Posts 7001
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12-18-18 08:57 PM - Post#269420
I kept searching for any semblance of offense from Princeton in this game before it turned ugly. Yes, they got those backdoor hoops against the inexperienced at D Duke freshman to claim the early lead, but every single one of those involved a Tiger guard dribbling around for 20 seconds and then drawing a double team when he got near the paint. Other than those plays there was zero real ball movement, and no touches for anyone but the man with the ball. Just weird. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-18-18 08:58 PM - Post#269421
I"ve not seen too many college teams ever that have that much shot-blocking ability. Even when you don't turn it over, the only way to have a decent scoring game is to hit a ton of threes or have NBA-type finishers. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-18-18 09:00 PM - Post#269422
As long as they can take the same when the shoe is on the other foot. Obviously not this year, but what goes around comes around. Frankly, there's no reason Duke should have done anything but throw the ball around for the last couple of minutes (at least) in this one. To start skying around even then shows a lack of class and sportsmanship. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-18-18 09:02 PM - Post#269423
The Tigers have not had their typical non-PG passing and movement off the ball for the past the last two seasons. Early last year there were a few possessions where the offense ran through Aririguzoh in the high post, but it never developed. |
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sparman PhD Student Posts 1347
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12-18-18 09:02 PM - Post#269424
So that half point was critical. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-18-18 09:03 PM - Post#269426
Hey, with that extra half point it was lookin' pretty good at halftime. 
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Eric Von Zipper Senior Posts 343 |
12-18-18 09:29 PM - Post#269427
The 1st half spread was Duke -16 1/2 and I took the points. Has Princeton ever given up 62 points in a half? I guess with their 4 wins (not counting the D3 exhibition game) coming against teams 5-36 overall the final result was not unexpected. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3585 |
12-18-18 10:37 PM - Post#269432
Looks to me like Duke had several guys that could stay in front of Llewelyn. |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
12-18-18 10:48 PM - Post#269434
One of the few times that I suggested to several friends to bet against the Tigers and take Duke giving the points. There is a reason why the first two guys in the NBA draft will probably be Dukies with four probable first rounders. NBA development team comprised of 19 year olds. The belief by a few people that the Tigers would cover was interesting. Not sure what an Ivy team learns playing Duke and Kentucky other than there is a significant difference in athletic ability to put it mildly. Takeaways for the Tigers might be that Myles showed some life which is a good thing. Secondarily, Llewellyn can take the pressure of handliung the ball against guards far more talented than he will face in the IL which may result in Morales getting less playing time. With Llewellyn on the court, Frieberg may get some of Morales minutes depending on the match up. The question is will Llewellyn be able to get to the hoop against IL competion vs. tonight when he was met by two large athletic defenders -- I suspect yes. Would not be surprised if Much becomes the reenactment of Lincoln Gunn after this year. Onto to similar competition -- Lafayette. |
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westcoast Senior Posts 302 |
12-18-18 11:31 PM - Post#269439
Surprisingly, Duke kept their Big 3 in for a major part of the game. All three played 26 minutes, and Zion didn't come out until the final 6 minutes of the game, when it was 82-42. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-19-18 01:19 AM - Post#269441
Plus, Duke put up 20 points the last six minutes of the first half. That's 82 points in 26 minutes. In a game that at one point Princeton led 8-0, and for the first 14 minutes had only given up 19 points. Just crazy.
Has Princeton ever given up 62 points in a half? |
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gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3669 |
12-19-18 04:37 AM - Post#269442
Silly-willy margin of defeat, but whatever. It's one game against a generational Duke team playing at Cameron with three Top 5 picks in its starting lineup. It's a good experience for future top opponents, who will feel like a breeze by comparison. I suspect the game against #18 ASU will be more fun. The guys hung with St. John's (a Big East best 10-0) till the final 3-4 minutes -- they can hang with good teams. Just not Duke. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-19-18 08:59 AM - Post#269443
So this is what it must feel like to be the annual DIII tune up school after break. Other than the fact that, well, Carnegie Mellon won. |
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AntiUngvar Masters Student Posts 530 |
12-19-18 11:49 AM - Post#269465
There's a lot to what you write and it invariably makes for enjoyable reading; but, in my humble opinion, generational teams don't lose games in November, if at all. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-19-18 03:20 PM - Post#269480
They remind me of Tark's UNLV team with Augmon, Johnson, Anthony, etc. Similar defensive pressure at every position, maybe more individual scoring ability. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-19-18 04:09 PM - Post#269482
Saying it one last time and then I'll be done: By the time of the ACC tourney, Duke will have played 17 home games, 5 neutral court games and 9 road games (all against ACC opponents). Any attempts to make this the greatest team of all time has to account for this considerable discrepancy. |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
12-19-18 06:31 PM - Post#269487
Most 2019 NBA draft prognosticans have 3 of the 5 top spots going to Dukies with a 4th, Jones, going later in the first round. The top 3 Dukies are one and done freshmen. People need to get a reality check if they do not believe that this team will not be great unless major injuries hit them. Coach K in his post-game interview stated that they needed to stop Cannady and Llewellyn which they obviously did. Barrett with his length on Cannady made it very challenging for Devin. He will face no one like that in the IL but there are certainly great defenders -- Bassey, Woods etc. Coach K was complimentary regarding Jaelin as well. He stated that his team played outstanding -- no kidding. |
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sparman PhD Student Posts 1347
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12-20-18 09:09 PM - Post#269563
Tigers must have taken a lot out of Duke, who are trailing tonight at half. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-20-18 09:16 PM - Post#269564
First time they've played away from home in a month. Must be a shock to their system. |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
12-20-18 11:07 PM - Post#269575
Duke played poorly for most of the game on offense at a neutral site, shot 15% on 3 point shots (3 of 20) yet they still win by 11 points against a very athletic #12 ranked team due to crazy good defense/steals. We do not want the IL representative to be a #16 seed this year and draw Duke which should not happen as long as nothing crazy happens at IvyMadness. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32834 |
12-21-18 09:04 AM - Post#269583
Shouldn't have happened last year, either. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3585 |
12-21-18 11:02 AM - Post#269598
Duke played poorly for most of the game on offense at a neutral site, shot 15% on 3 point shots (3 of 20) yet they still win by 11 points against a very athletic #12 ranked team due to crazy good defense/steals. We do not want the IL representative to be a #16 seed this year and draw Duke which should not happen as long as nothing crazy happens at IvyMadness. Duke's game last night was MUCH closer than 11 pts. TT led a majority of the game and it was a 1 or two possession game until around the 2 min mark and foul shots extended it. Texas Tech played them well, which you would expect from a #12 team on a neutral floor. |
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Tiger69 Postdoc Posts 2816 |
12-21-18 03:27 PM - Post#269670
I admire Mitch for scheduling tough opponents. But, it does not seem necessary to schedule one-and-done factories like Duke and Kentucky — especially on their home courts. They are semi-pros rather than other universities. Let them stick to their own. There is plenty of good competition without them. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-22-18 02:33 PM - Post#269743
I don't mind these sorts of games. It's a good opportunity for the players to experience big-time basketball, and contrary to Tiger69 the program aspires to excellence, not a safe space. Also, I don't think the decisive factor in Duke's prowess is spending less time on academics. Their four-year role players were also blocking shots and making steals all over the floor. |
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Tiger69 Postdoc Posts 2816 |
12-22-18 03:52 PM - Post#269755
Excellence in what league? Should we try to get an NBA game? One and done players make college b-ball a joke |
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gokinsmen Postdoc Posts 3669 |
12-23-18 12:11 AM - Post#269930
I suspect the game against #18 ASU will be more fun. ...and ASU just beat #1 Kansas. I choose to spin this positively: after their huge win, ASU will underestimate us and our guys will look even better playing close with a Top 15 team (by next week) that just beat a #1. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-23-18 12:58 AM - Post#269936
Hopefully you won't have to suffer through Bill Walton. Just brutal tonight--have never cared for him as announcer. **Truth be told, I never cared for him as a player, either--at least when on the Celtics. |
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westcoast Senior Posts 302 |
12-23-18 01:19 AM - Post#269944
Bill Walton is scheduled to broadcast the Princeton - Arizona State game next Saturday. http://www.billwalton.com/news/437-pac-12 |
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Tiger69 Postdoc Posts 2816 |
12-23-18 02:19 PM - Post#269975
Walton broadcast our upset of overrated USC last season and, with a son/alumnus, will treat us kindly. |
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Petrie Freshman Posts 42 |
12-23-18 08:08 PM - Post#269990
Walton definitely likes the tigers. I’ll be interested to hear to what degree he comments on the disappearance of the structure that used to define PU b-ball. And Penn nation. - please, saying you didn’t think much of Walton as a player , at least when he was a Celtic, is like saying you didn’t care for willie mays as a player, at least when he was with the Mets. Walton’s college career and the few healthy years he had in the pros I think matches up with some of the best ever. A beautiful player. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-23-18 08:57 PM - Post#269991
I was too young to see in him college, sadly. And I definitely admire his approach to life. Just never cared for his announcing or for his antics when on Boston. |
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Old Bear Postdoc Posts 3998 |
12-23-18 09:00 PM - Post#269992
His play in the NCAA finals was won of the great all-time College games of all time. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21206 |
12-23-18 09:06 PM - Post#269993
I know. He could have given the Penn BB guys some tips on how to shoot FTs. I only saw him play live in person once--a classic game when on Portland vs the Bulls at a pretty lively Chicago Stadium back in 1978. There's a YouTube up of this game and finish, which Lionel Hollins won at the buzzer. Corky was also in that game--not that I knew who he was at the time. https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/197... |
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Petrie Freshman Posts 42 |
12-23-18 09:17 PM - Post#269994
Btw I agree with you about his broadcasting - hard to take. |
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Old Bear Postdoc Posts 3998 |
12-23-18 09:23 PM - Post#269995
Amen |
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AntiUngvar Masters Student Posts 530 |
12-24-18 12:43 AM - Post#270017
Like him or not , Bill Walton's carved a place for himself in college bball broadcasting, with a real following therein. But what I'd really love to know is what "antics" he's being associated with, as relating to his playing years in Boston? He was the League's 6th man of the year in 1986, following a championship Celtics season; playing for a team that won 40 out of 41 regular season home games, and which is general regarded as one of the four greatest bball teams ever. Furthermore, Walton was 33 years old during that Boston championship season , and much closer to his personal best athletic self than Willie Mays was in '73, as a forty-two year old, stumbling NYMets, starting centerfielder- not accurate to compare these 2 sporting legends at those respective stages in their hall of fame careers. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-24-18 02:28 AM - Post#270023
Ugh on Bill Walton. Expect a fount of cliches and off-topic narcissism. |
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1LotteryPick1969 Postdoc Posts 2275 
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12-24-18 08:25 AM - Post#270024
Ugh on Bill Walton. Expect a fount of cliches and off-topic narcissism. What he said. |
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Eric Von Zipper Senior Posts 343 |
12-24-18 03:12 PM - Post#270046
Walton claims to have personally attended over 850 Grateful Dead concerts. Explains a lot. |
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JadwinGeorge Senior Posts 357 |
12-24-18 04:50 PM - Post#270053
I enjoy Walton's perspective during his broadcasts, usually filled with fun back and forth with the play-by-play guy. I have always believed that the Ivy title in 2000 was one of the best coaching jobs in the storied history of the program. Nate Walton, who couldn't run very well nor shoot, was the MVP on that club. Nice kid, too. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-25-18 02:47 PM - Post#270091
Always up for a reminiscence of Nate's amazing job as the high-post hub of the offense that year. Proof that a range of players can fill that role if they and the coaches work on it. Also thought it was funny when he answered a reporter's question about inheriting his passing ability from Dad with "I don't think there's a gene for passing." |
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1LotteryPick1969 Postdoc Posts 2275
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12-25-18 06:30 PM - Post#270095
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900031390/big -... There may be multiple genes involved. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4911 |
12-27-18 07:58 PM - Post#270205
Yeah, polygenetic causation seems to be the order of the day. |
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