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Username Post: Princeton at Penn
Cvonvorys
Postdoc
Posts 4508
Cvonvorys 		01-12-19 01:07 AM - Post#272154    

The line I see is Penn minus 7. I think this game will be a good indicator (and the result, a good indication) of how well Pennsylvania will finish the year... Penn wins convincingly, and we all should once again feel encouraged... Penn wins in a close game (or worse), we should all hope Pennsylvania gets a 4 seed.
Streamers
Professor
Posts 8313
Streamers 		01-12-19 09:26 AM - Post#272165    

I was a bit surprised by the line. I thought it would be five. The logic is simple. They took the OT result, applied the 6 point home swing, and added 1 for Wang/Max health. Both coaches have pointed out that they want this game to play out differently from last week. The adjustments/execution will play a huge role since the talent is comparable. I’d feel better if Tyler were available to harass Stephens, but I think Devon finds his shooting eye, AJ has another big game, Wang shakes off the rust, and the offense produces a lit more assists than turnovers. We just need to hope Richmomd does not learn how to play defense anytime soon. The x-factor will be the crowd. The Cathedral will be amped for this with the 79 team in the house. I’m confident Penn wins, but 7 is a lot to lay. I do like the over at 137 though. Both teams will shoot better than last week.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3619
Mike Porter 		01-12-19 12:00 PM - Post#272175    

The spread these days often looks surprisingly similar to Kenpom and that also is 7 points, so I’m guessing that’s related. Agree it’s a lot for a battle between rivals and expect a tough game. Hoping the heroes (aka the Quakers) can find their mojo and confidence again.
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 12:10 PM - Post#272177    

Looking at the DP article on today's game, it seems that everything is close to 100% for Michael. Max will be ready, as well, but the article does not give me the same sense of optimism as it does for Wang.

https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/01/penn- mens-ba...

- Additionally, Penn will be healthier than it was a week ago, as coach Steve Donahue clarified that there will be no limitations in terms of injuries this Saturday. That, of course, means that freshman forward Michael Wang will be closer to full strength than in the team's previous three games, in which he dealt with an ankle injury.

“I think [Michael will be 100 percent]. Yeah, he’s had a great week,” Donahue said. “Last week, he barely could practice; we tried to hold him out. This week, he has practiced every day, and I don’t see any limp or anything.”

Senior forward Max Rothschild will also benefit from having a week of rest, as the big man has been nursing a back injury throughout the season. A healthier frontcourt and raucous home crowd could be the key to getting the Quakers in the win column in Ivy play. -

The free throws, as always, will be a 63-35 proposition.

- One improvement that Penn hopes to make this weekend is its shooting from both the free throw and three-point lines. Last Saturday, the team shot 5-for-20 from the arc and missed five of eight attempts from the charity stripe in overtime.

“We spend a lot of time [in practice] taking it seriously, knocking down free throws,” senior guard Antonio Woods said. “It’s just [about] making the transition to the game as well. So that’s been a big focus this week.”

Just as in last weekend’s matchup, foul shots could again be a big factor in determining who comes out of the rivalry game on top. -

Hopefully, Dev, Bryce and Michael get their threes in order (and Jackson can get his big bucket off the bench), so the free throws don't decide this thing.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3619
Mike Porter 		01-12-19 02:01 PM - Post#272189    

Expecting a battle, and for Quakers to overcome think we need to shoot much better, play less one on one, get good minutes from Wang, and continue to defend Princeton guards well.

Important game and hoping the Quakers can come out on top with the 79 team on hand.
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 02:56 PM - Post#272197    

According to Live Stats, the starting lineups have changed from last week:

Penn - Woods, Goodman, Washington, Wang and Brodeur

Princeton - Llewellyn, Cannady, Stephens, Desrosiers and Aririguzoh
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 03:11 PM - Post#272206    

Penn 4 Princeton 4 16:00 minutes left

Penn:
Shooting 2-7 (0-2 from 3)
Rebounds: 5 (2 offensive, 3 defensive)
TO: 2

Brodeur: 2 points (1-2 from 2, 0-2 from 3), 1 foul, 3 rebounds

Princeton:
Shooting: 1-5 (0-1 from 3)
Rebounds: 4 (1 offensive, 3 defensive)
TO: 3

RA: 4 points
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1903
 01-12-19 03:19 PM - Post#272208    

JD just took the top of 3 I like to see him shoot. Swish. Surprised to see him in there right now. Ball is moving but more dribbles than I expected.
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 03:19 PM - Post#272209    

Penn 11 Princeton 9 11:03

Penn
Shooting 5-16 (1-5 from 3)
Rebounds: 10 (3 offensive, 7 defensive)
TO: 2
Fouls: 3

Princeton
Shooting: 2-12 (1-6 from 3), 4-4 FT
Rebounds: 11 (3 offensive, 8 defensive)
TO: 5
Fouls: 3
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 03:23 PM - Post#272210    

12-0 Penn run, as Princeton has missed its last 10 shots, including one possession with multiple offensive rebounds they couldn’t convert.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 03:26 PM - Post#272211    

Again with the missed layups after a guy gets to the rim.

Now Woods has his second foul.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 03:28 PM - Post#272212    

Penn 18 Princeton 10 7:43

Penn
Shooting: 8-21 (2-6) 0-0 FT
Reb: 14 (3 offensive, 11 defensive)
TO: 2
Fouls: 5 (Woods with 3?)

Princeton:
Shooting: 2-18 (1-6 from 3), 5-6 FT
Reb: 16 (6 offensive, 10 defensive)
TO: 7
Fouls: 3
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 03:28 PM - Post#272213    

... and another blown layup.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 03:29 PM - Post#272214    

Nice post move from Brodeur to put Penn up double digits.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 03:29 PM - Post#272216    

Now Wang blows a layup.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 03:30 PM - Post#272217    

Stephens does the right thing and drives Silpe hard to the hole.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 03:32 PM - Post#272219    

AJ at the line for 2. C'mon AJ
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 03:32 PM - Post#272220    

Layup missed ... again ... but Brodeur with the double putback gets the foul.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 03:33 PM - Post#272221    

1 for 2. That's about right, I guess.
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 03:34 PM - Post#272222    

Princeton’s entire offense is missing but getting the offensive rebound again and again until something good happens.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 03:36 PM - Post#272223    

Penn 21 Princeton 18 4:00 left

Penn
Shooting: 9-26 (1-6 from 3) 1-2 FT
Reb: 16 (4 off, 12 def)
TO: 3
Fouls: 6 (Silpe 2, Woods 2 - listed as 3 on stat page)

Princeton
Shooting: 6-25 (1-7 from 3) 5-6 FT
Reb: 22 (8 off, 14 def)
TO: 7
PF: 6 (Desrosiers with 2)
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 03:38 PM - Post#272224    

For #%$@ sake the goddamn #%$@ FTs.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 03:39 PM - Post#272225    

12-1 Princeton run.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 03:40 PM - Post#272226    

Phew. Big Bryce 3.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 03:41 PM - Post#272227    

Morales hit the stanchion hard.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 03:42 PM - Post#272229    

Morales makes the driving layup and lands hard on his shoulder. Hopefully, he's ok.
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 03:43 PM - Post#272230    

Silpe 1-2 on the FT (2-5 for the half)

Jeez!
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 03:43 PM - Post#272231    

Silpe can only go 1-2 at line.
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 03:45 PM - Post#272232    

3rd foul on Silpe. Stephens goes 1-2 from the line (Team 8-10)
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 03:47 PM - Post#272233    

Wang with the start, but 0-4, no rebounds, no assists, and a turnover. I don’t think we can pull this out unless we can get some production from him in the second half.

Awful offense from both teams down the stretch.

Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3619
Mike Porter 		01-12-19 03:54 PM - Post#272235    

Another defensive struggle and our offense not as smooth as it can be. Most frustrating is that we had a chance to extend lead when they were struggling but missed multiple layups.

Have got to find our mojo and MUST be stronger on the boards. Good def doesn’t matter if you give the ball right back...

Let’s hope Wang can find the bucket and that everyone else can box out and hit layups in the second half.
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 03:56 PM - Post#272236    

Penn 27 Princeton 27 Halftime

Penn
Shooting: 11-30 (37%) overall, 7-22 from two (32%), 3-8 from three (38%), 2-5 FT (40%)
Rebounds: 18 (4 offensive, 14 defensive)
Offensive: 18%; Defensive: 61%
TO: 4 (Princeton 6 Pts off TO)
Fouls: Silpe 3, Woods 2

Brodeur 7, Washington 6, Goodman 4, Donahue 3, Silpe 3, Rothschild 2, Woods 2, Wang 0 (0-4)

Princeton
Shooting: 9-31 overall (29%), 8-23 from two (35%), 1-8 from 3 (13%), 8-10 from FT (80%)
Rebounds: 27 (9 offensive, 18 defensive)
Offensive: 39%; Defensive 82%
TO: 7 (Penn 2 points off TO)
Fouls: Llewellyn 2, Desrosiers 2

RA 12 (5-8), Cannady 9 (2-9), Stephens 3 (1-4), Morales 2 (1-2), Much 1, Desrosiers 0 (0-3), Llwelly 0 (0-4)
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 03:58 PM - Post#272237    

RA is doing well again and Cannady is finding his ways to get his points.

JL is struggling and it is unclear if Morales will be playing in the 2nd half.

Penn has to get some three point shooting, especially from Wang, and really needs to step it up on the boards (RA, Cannady and Desrosiers with 6 each).

With the FT being worse than last week, the Quakers are really going to have to make a big run in the 2nd half to create some space.
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:02 PM - Post#272239    

Hopefully, the Quakers switched to their throwback 2017-2018 uniforms for the 2nd half.
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:03 PM - Post#272240    

Tough, tough hook in the low post by Wang to start half.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:03 PM - Post#272241    

Another blown layup, this time by Washington.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:07 PM - Post#272243    

AJ went 2-2 from the line! Great!
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:07 PM - Post#272244    

Now Stephens blows a layup.

Don’t like Bryce passing up a 3 to give Woods a longer 3.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:09 PM - Post#272246    

No Princeton player under the basket, but Brodeur and Wang combine to fumble the rebound. Fortunately Canady travels.

dperry
Postdoc
Posts 2215
dperry 		01-12-19 04:10 PM - Post#272247    

O-boards killing us in this one
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:11 PM - Post#272248    

Princeton 37 Penn 36 with 15:07 left

Penn
3-7 (1-3 from 3), 2-2 FT
Reb: 2
TO: 0
PF: 1

Brodeur 14, Washington 6

Princeton
4-8 (1-2 from 3), 1-1 FT
Reb: 6
TO: 2
PF: 1

RA 15, Cannady 11
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:13 PM - Post#272250    

AJ and RA both with 3 fouls
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:14 PM - Post#272251    

A.J. misses two in a row within 5 feet.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:15 PM - Post#272253    

Two in and outs for Bryce and AJ. Uggh!
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:15 PM - Post#272254    

Morales is back (glad he's not hurt). Silpe picks up foul #4
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1903
 01-12-19 04:15 PM - Post#272255    

Brodeur was not happy about that foul call. He has been very animated on both ends for several possessions after that.
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:17 PM - Post#272256    

Now Woods tries to take Stephens to hole, can’t finish, and Max can’t control the offensive board.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:17 PM - Post#272257    

AJ has 9 of Penn's 11 points this half. Someone else has to get going.
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:17 PM - Post#272258    

Woods finally gets a drive to go.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:18 PM - Post#272259    

Another hard drive in transition by Woods, and he’ll have two FTs after the under 12:00 timeout to put Penn back in the lead.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:20 PM - Post#272260    

Princeton 41 Penn 40 11:31 left

Penn
Shooting 5-13 (1-4 from 3), 2-2 FT
Reb: 5 (0 off, 5 def)
TO: 1
PF: 4 (Silpe with 4, Brodeur 3)

Princeton
Shooting 5-12 (1-3 from 3), 3-3 FT
Reb: 10 (2 of, 8 def)
TO: 4
PF 4 (RA with 3)
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:20 PM - Post#272261    

An air ball on first.

Makes second.

Sheesh.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:20 PM - Post#272262    

Woods 1-2 (that first one was absolutely horrible)
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:21 PM - Post#272263    

Ugly, ugly offensive possession for Quakers down 3.

Which ends in a Wang force that generates a Stephens transition layup.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:23 PM - Post#272264    

Really bad play after the media timeout with a very sloppy possession ending in poor outside shot from Wang (1-6 and 1 reb on the day)

Down 5 with 10:39 to go.
dperry
Postdoc
Posts 2215
dperry 		01-12-19 04:23 PM - Post#272265    

People have just go to take 3's. I don't care if they're guarded; get it up there
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:23 PM - Post#272266    

Brodeur back in.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:26 PM - Post#272267    

Aririguzoh with his 4th foul.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:26 PM - Post#272268    

RA picks up foul #4, Max on the line for 2
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:27 PM - Post#272269    

Max makes 2 FTs!

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:27 PM - Post#272270    

2-2 from Max! Down 3
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:28 PM - Post#272271    

Washington misses in transition. Vince is right, didn’t go strong enough to get foul call.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:31 PM - Post#272272    

Princeton 48 Penn 45 7:35 left

Penn
Shooting 6-20 (1-6 from 3), 5-6 FT
Reb: 11 (3 off, 8 def)
TO: 2
PF: 6 (Silpe 4, AJ 3, Woods 3)

Princeton
Shooting: 8-18 (2-5 from 3), 3-3 FT
Reb: 13 (2 off, 11 def)
TO: 5
PF: 7 (RA 4)
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:32 PM - Post#272273    

More disjointed offense leads to a Brodeur miss.
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:33 PM - Post#272274    

Bryce misses a long 3, Max with the rebound foul.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:33 PM - Post#272275    

Bryce with a missed 3 (2-5 on the day; team 4-15 on the day)
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:34 PM - Post#272276    

Down 5 again, Woods with the hard drive finish and-1.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:34 PM - Post#272277    

Misses FT.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:36 PM - Post#272278    

Awful turnover Brodeur to Goodman, down 5.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:36 PM - Post#272279    

AJ with 2 blocks on that possessions, but Stephens makes the two. Princeton up 5 w just over 5 to go.
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:37 PM - Post#272281    

Brodeur misses again, as hook over Stephens goes in and out.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:37 PM - Post#272282    

Princeton crushing the small lineup with the post isolation.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:38 PM - Post#272283    

Brodeur misses again.

Gonna take a monumental effort to overcome this deficit given how bad the offense has been.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:38 PM - Post#272284    

Another two point shot from Stephens. Now up 7 and Penn is just not finding any offense. Hard to see how they come back with 3:51 to go.
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1903
 01-12-19 04:39 PM - Post#272285    

Brodeur is missing that right handed leaner again and again. It's not a bad shot, but those need to fall.

The crowd sounds dead. How about D-E-F-E-N-S-E! Anything!
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:40 PM - Post#272286    

Brodeur a double-double, but on 6-17 shooting.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:40 PM - Post#272287    

Princeton 54 Penn 47 3:51

Penn
Shooting: 7-25 (1-7 from 3), 5-7 FT
Reb: 12 (3 off, 9 def)
TO: 3
PF: 7 (Silpe 4, AJ 3)

Princeton
Shooting: 10-25 (2-6 from 3), 5-5 FT
Reb: 22 (6 off, 16 def)
TO: 6
PF: 8
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:41 PM - Post#272288    

Woods picks up an offensive foul (#4)
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:42 PM - Post#272289    

Llewelyn, with one foot inside the arc, flops. Offensive foul called on Woods.

Awful, awful officiating.

Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3619
Mike Porter 		01-12-19 04:42 PM - Post#272290    

This has gone from one of the most exciting to most disappointing seasons very quickly. Just extremely frustrating.
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12533
 01-12-19 04:42 PM - Post#272291    

How is it possible to have the same ref that got us for Monmouth get to do this one too? And gets us again? Unreal.
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:43 PM - Post#272292    

Quick threes last two possessions, nothing to show.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:43 PM - Post#272293    

Now Bryce gets one to go with no one within 15 feet of him.

Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
 01-12-19 04:44 PM - Post#272294    

Regardless of win or lose, this is excruciating to watch and is setting back college offense by decades.
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:44 PM - Post#272295    

Bryce hits a wide open 3. Penn down 54-50 with 1:35 left.
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12533
 01-12-19 04:44 PM - Post#272296    

  • Chip Bayers Said:
Llewelyn, with one foot inside the arc, flops. Offensive foul called on Woods.

Awful, awful officiating.


Same effing guy as Monmouth. How is that allowed??
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:44 PM - Post#272297    

Agreed!
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:45 PM - Post#272298    

Aririguzoh unchallenged by Brodeur in the paint.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:46 PM - Post#272299    

Hey look, we missed a front end of a 1-and-1.
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:46 PM - Post#272300    

RA back in and hits a big two. Up 6.

Desrosiers fouls Woods. Woods misses the FT
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:46 PM - Post#272301    

Then give up a floor rebound, and foul the wrong guy in Canady on the re-set.

rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 04:46 PM - Post#272302    

Another O board for Princeton.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3619
Mike Porter 		01-12-19 04:47 PM - Post#272303    

Yep that’s about right. Missed front end. Just really terrible performance and I see this team struggling rest of the season and hoping for 3 or 4 seed if this is what we are now.
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:47 PM - Post#272304    

Game over.

Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts 7001
Chip Bayers 		01-12-19 04:49 PM - Post#272305    

  • Mike Porter Said:
Yep that’s about right. Missed front end. Just really terrible performance and I see this team struggling rest of the season and hoping for 3 or 4 seed if this is what we are now.



Such negative thinking. C’mon, they kept the deficit at single digits!
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3619
Mike Porter 		01-12-19 04:50 PM - Post#272306    

I turned it off and it’s been a while since I’ve done that. Absolutely brutal.
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1903
 01-12-19 05:04 PM - Post#272312    

The energy levels looked low. They took good shots but they didn't fall. No one except Washington looked like they could hit an open 3.

Princeton seems better than many people give them credit for. They have quite a few large and athletic players.
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12533
 01-12-19 05:07 PM - Post#272314    

One of the worst games I’ve seen in a long time. There is 0 positive to take from this one. ZERO. Go Birds.
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-12-19 05:19 PM - Post#272318    

Princeton 62 Penn 53 Final

Penn
Shooting: 20-61 overall (33%), 14-40 from two (35%), 6-21 from three (29%) and 7-13 (54%) from FT
Rebounds: 34 (7 offensive, 27 defensive)
Offensive: 15%; Defensive: 63%
TO: 8 (Princeton 8 pts off TO)
Assists: 9 (Assist Rate: 45%)

Brodeur 16 points (5-14 from 2, 1-3 from 3, 3-4 FT), 12 rebounds, 5 blocks, 31 minutes
Woods 12 points (4-8 from 2, 1-3 from 3, 1-4 FT), 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 turnovers, 30 minutes
Washington 9 points (0-2 from 2, 3-7 from 3), 3 rebounds, 1 turnover, 38 minutes
Goodman 4 points (2-5 from 2, 0-4 from 3, 0-1 FT), 6 rebounds, 4 assists, 0 turnovers, 38 minutes
Rothschild 4 points (1-2 from two, 2-2 FT), 3 rebounds, 3 turnovers, 16 minutes
Wang 2 points (1-5 from 2, 0-2 from 3), 1 rebound, 1 turnover, 23 minutes
Silpe 3 points (1-3 from 2, 1-1 from 3), 3 assists, 0 turnovers, 18 minutes
Donahue 3 points (0-1 from 2, 1-1 from 3), 3 assists, 0 turnovers, 7 minutes

Princeton
Shooting: 20-62 overall (32%), 17-46 from two (37%), 3-16 from three (19%) and 19-21 (91%) from FT
Rebounds: 55 (16 offensive, 39 defensive)
Offensive: 37%; Defensive: 85%
TO: 13 (Penn 4 pts off TO)
Assists: 5 (Assist Rate: 25%)

Cannady 20 points (2-10 from 2, 2-8 from 3, 10-10 from FT), 12 rebounds, 1 assist, 3 turnovers, 40 minutes
Aririguzoh 17 points (7-10 from 2, 3-3 FT), 9 rebounds, 2 blocks, 4 turnovers, 30 minutes
Stephens 13 points (5-13 from 2, 3-4 FT), 10 rebounds, 1 assist, 3 turnovers, 39 minutes
Llewellyn 5 points (0-5 from 2, 1-4 from 3, 2-2 FT), 1 rebound, 0 assists, 1 turnover, 31 minutes
Much 5 points (2-3 from 2, 0-1 from 3, 1-2 FT), 5 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 turnovers, 23 minutes
Desrosiers 0 points (0-3 from 2, 0-3 from 3), 9 rebounds, 26 minutes
Morales 2 points (1-2 from 2), 1 rebound, 2 assists, 0 turnovers, 10 minutes
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3619
Mike Porter 		01-12-19 05:31 PM - Post#272321    

Princeton definitely looks much better with the frosh and a healthy Stephens. Add in RA and definitely a good team.

BUT, you can’t play like that at home, when it’s an important game, while celebrating Final Four Team.

The team just seems to have completely lost its confidence and mojo on offense. I’d say it’s a wake up call but we’ve had 4 straight losses of wake up calls.

Obviously a lot of season left to make Ivy Tournament, but our Ivy schedule is tough (start with a lot of away games) and I don’t really understand where the offense has gone...
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12533
 01-12-19 06:37 PM - Post#272337    

You can’t give up NINE more offensive rebounds and win many games. I know some were long rebounds but others were just bad. This one is going to sting for a while.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21276
 01-12-19 08:31 PM - Post#272348    

Did not see this one but the box score is just a head scratcher.

Once again, both teams shot poorly (and again Princeton a bit worse than Penn). We cleaned up the TO mess from game 1.

Three common themes from both games--our being atrocious at the FT line, from distance and getting severely outboarded.

Clearly Wang is not back to being 100%--if he were, we probably would have seen a different outcome today and in some previous games. The downfall of this team really began when he went out early vs Toledo.
UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts 1122
UPIA1968 		01-12-19 08:58 PM - Post#272355    

The offense is down because they aren't hitting from three. Part is Wang and his injury, but the bigger part is Devon, Tony and Jake are not scoring from three. Earlier they were, now they are not. Given the length of the drought, it is beginning to look like the earlier results were the out-lyer, not the current results. None of those three were good long-distance shooters before.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3619
Mike Porter 		01-12-19 09:02 PM - Post#272359    

Wang seemed to be moving pretty well and Coach Donahue said he was near 100% before the game.

It seems there is something more going on... one factor is that Goodman has struggled all four games as well. ORATs between 58-70 the last four games.

It just seems like the confidence the team had heading into Toledo disappeared and they’re playing more not to lose rather than to win on offense.

In the span of 4 games it’s gone from potentially most memorable season in a long time, to potentially most disappointing in a long time.

KP now has us finishing 7-7 Ivy’s for 5th place and missing the tournament...
OldBig5
Masters Student
Posts 639
 01-12-19 09:08 PM - Post#272362    

Missed this one. Looking forward to next year!

Just don't have the weapons form three land with Betley out. Get in the tourney though and anything is possible.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
 01-12-19 09:37 PM - Post#272377    

mike, i hear you, but it's really weird that wang was on the bench from like the 9 minute mark to the 3 minute mark with us just crying out for offense. if you're healthy, 4 shots can't deter you. he needs to be bombing or at least taking up a decent defender with his gravity.

god, i hate bad offense, that was atrocious.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6415
 01-12-19 09:58 PM - Post#272389    

On that reset at the end Donahue was yelling at Washington to foul, but he apparently didn’t hear.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6415
 01-12-19 10:05 PM - Post#272396    

Agree. We did better getting AJ shots today, and he had a lot rim out, but I came away thinking we needed to feed him even more. Princeton does a good job of getting out on the 3 shooters, and tends to not double AJ. I think you have to keep feeding him. We do it for a while, and then we seem to forget.

JadwinGeorge
Senior
Posts 357
 01-12-19 10:10 PM - Post#272397    

No need to double a guy who shoots 6-17...He's the best Penn player but he can't beat anyone by himself
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21276
 01-12-19 10:15 PM - Post#272401    

  • JadwinGeorge Said:
No need to double a guy who shoots 6-17...He's the best Penn player but he can't beat anyone by himself




AJ is normally a nightmare matchup if you don't double him. And there have been games where he does in fact beat the opposition in this manner. He's by far our best percentage play if not doubled--a career 52.9% shooter, and 55.8% from 2 (if only his career FT% weren't so darned close to that figure!).
Tiger81
Masters Student
Posts 412
Tiger81 		01-13-19 07:38 AM - Post#272421    

I thought Aririguzoh played outstanding defense against AJ. Several times the ball was thrown into the post and AJ worked 1-on-1 but could not find a shot and ended up passing it back out to the perimeter and when he did score it was on highly contested shots. Last year Princeton did not have an answer down low against the Quakers but the surprising emergence of Aririguzoh has changed how we match up and has allowed the Tigers to better defend Penn’s long-range shooters.
1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts 2277
1LotteryPick1969 		01-13-19 08:59 AM - Post#272431    

Someone else posted on this board that Aririguzoh is not great defensively, but I disagree. You are entirely correct that his ability to defend the post without help was the key to the entire Princeton defense. And unlike the last two Princeton bigs, he has an offensive game and makes his foul shots.
Streamers
Professor
Posts 8313
Streamers 		01-13-19 10:14 AM - Post#272437    

Oh please... that was me. No question Aririguzoh is getting it done at the offensive end, including off the boards, but AJ was getting the ball and his shots both this week and last. This week, there was a stronger lid on the hoop. OTOH, Mitch is OK not giving him help which is the key to the defensive scheme that stymied the hurting Quakers. There is every reason to believe RA will get better defensively and I’m not looking forward to that day. Also not looking forward to having to type or pronounce his name for the next couple of years.
sparman
PhD Student
Posts 1348
sparman 		01-13-19 10:53 AM - Post#272440    

  • Streamers Said:
Also not looking forward to having to type or pronounce his name for the next couple of years.


Think of it as penance for us having to deal with Onyekwe.
Streamers
Professor
Posts 8313
Streamers 		01-13-19 11:18 AM - Post#272444    

Good one
UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts 1122
UPIA1968 		01-13-19 09:38 PM - Post#272493    

princeton did a good job of forcing AJ farther out than usual in the second half.
UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts 1122
UPIA1968 		01-13-19 09:41 PM - Post#272494    

princeton did a good job of forcing AJ farther out than usual in the second half.
1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts 2277
1LotteryPick1969 		01-14-19 08:18 AM - Post#272512    

Yes they did.

Look, I love "AJ" and I wish he were on our team, but he is more one handed than the drummer for def leppard. He only moves left to set you up to move back to the right.

Last Feb (2018) second game Princeton-Penn, second half, he was 8 for 8. I suspect the majority of those were his 8 foot low arc flip-hooks. Move him two feet out, and he starts to miss.

RA is a very fast learner. First game AJ was 5/6 first half, 2/8 (not looking at 3's) in the second half. This most recent game 3/6 first half, 2/8 second half (and one of those was against Much, who was much overmatched).

RA is not a shot blocker, but he uses his body and feet very well. And the luxury of not having to double down on AJ or front him sets up the entire defense.

Standard disclaimer: just my opinion, which is occasionally correct.
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 01-14-19 09:47 AM - Post#272519    

https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/01/penn- princet...

- "I think we settle and give in late in the clock, 10 seconds left," Donahue said. "We put ourselves in some tough spots to make hard shots. That’s settling and we can’t do that. It’s my responsibility to get these guys playing the way they can." -

- "When [the Tigers] needed to execute, they executed," Donahue said. "We did not and that’s what we’ve fallen into during this four-game skid. We’re just not executing and playing like can on the offensive end." -

- "We’re not feeling good about who we are and the way we’re playing," Donahue said. "I think the guys are playing harder, but I told them that we’re not playing any better. We need to figure out a way to play better, and that’s technical, that’s personnel driven, and that’s coaching." -

http://www.philly.com/college-sports/penn/p enn-pri...

- At the other end, Penn was 7-for-13 from the line, giving away points.

“It’s really demoralizing to not go to the line and get those two points,’’ Donahue said later, explaining that it is worked on and talked about.

“Believe me, we do a lot of stuff," Donahue said. “We know what the elephant is in the room.” -

https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/01/penn- princet...

Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12533
 01-14-19 04:56 PM - Post#272575    

  • Jeff2sf Said:

god, i hate bad offense, that was atrocious.


This is what has me the most concerned. Sure you can say that the guards haven't been great and we're not making 3's but it's so much bigger than that. Game after game we came away praising the way they moved the ball and then Mike goes out and it all falls apart. I'm willing to chalk the first two/three losses up to Mike being hurt and then Princeton knowing how to defend us, but we had better figure it out quickly. These next two are really big games for confidence moving forward.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6415
 01-14-19 06:34 PM - Post#272593    

I do think there were some things in the second half that suggested a lack of confidence. I understand and agree with our efforts to try some new things offensively, as what we were doing didn’t work in either game. What surprised me was that we took a shot at changing things up defensively by doubling Aririgozuh on 3 straight possessions early in the second half. The first time we did it (doubling with both bigs), we surprised them and got a stop. But the next two, we gave up what I think were the two easiest buckets of the game. The second one was a wide open 3 for Llewelyn. That was the end of the double team, but it also left us playing from behind for the remainder of the game. Obviously showing a different look can pay dividends even when it doesn’t work, but I’m not sure that was the case here.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3619
Mike Porter 		01-14-19 07:04 PM - Post#272599    

I agree with this. I actually think the Toledo game not only hurt physically by losing Wang, but it also hurt the team mentally. Since then, none of the guys have played with quite the same confidence (maybe Washington?), but especially our lead guards. From the outside it feels like that really dinged the guys confidence and we haven't quite recovered...

Take a look at the ORATs for Goodman, Woods, and Silpe which all have completely gone in the tank the last 4 games:

Goodman: 58, 66, 70, 68
Woods: 73, 100, 93, 84
Silpe: 78, 66, 69, 62

When the best your primary 1/2 guards can bring is a 100 ORAT (baseline average) for 1 out of 12 game performances (and which only came against a ~300 ranked team)... you're not going to win many games.

100% agree that Wang's injury is a big blow and expect it played at least some factor in his reduced performance in this stretch, BUT I don't think that is the entire reason for those stats above for our lead guards. A factor maybe, but something has been off with those guys the whole time (frankly inability to hit 3s or layups).
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3619
Mike Porter 		01-14-19 07:10 PM - Post#272600    

For the record, while they've struggled on offense, I do think all 3 of those guys has continued to work really hard on defense, but with no Wang and none of those guys hitting, not hard to see how things shook out.

Problem here is that we're in for an extremely tough test with the next game in Temple, away. They are a very good team, very big, and quite athletic (have seen several of their games). Not a great match up for us physically, hard to beat them away, so a pretty tall order to turn around the offense in that game (Temple D is ranked 67 by KP, so about 60 spots better than the Princeton team that made us look really bad).
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3590
 01-14-19 08:23 PM - Post#272609    

Villanova is 67 KP on defense FWIW
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6415
 01-15-19 12:14 AM - Post#272633    

Yes — all three played extremely well defensively. I was particularly surprised at Silpe guarding Stephens for stretches. He ended up getting in foul trouble doing it, but he was great. And Goodman did a pretty darn good Foreman imitation on Cannady, making everything hard for him.

Another observation that could make the board explode in protest: our best offensive stretch of the game was when Jackson Donahue was in the game in the first half. Particularly that stretch where we scored on I think 5 straight possessions and he either scored or assisted four of them. As we got that short-lived 10 point lead. May not mean anything (and to tie this into the argument on the Princeton board about Morales on Defense, this also coincided with Morales being in the game, which is the only situation where Jackson gets on the floor in these games). But it was interesting. Also enjoyed what he said coming to the bench when Princeton called timeout, which caused my son to look at me and say “language!”
The Grape King
Freshman
Posts 20
 01-15-19 01:59 AM - Post#272636    

I suppose this is off topic at this point, but why did you guys play Princeton twice in January? Isn't usually the conference opener/finale?
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12533
 01-15-19 05:50 PM - Post#272697    

I'll answer the new guy. The conference tournament removes the ability to end with the game and I believe the teams were tired of having to play 3 games in 5 days and that is what precipitated the move off of Tuesday to Saturday. Things should be somewhat more settled next year when Princeton has a normal finals schedule for once.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32877
 01-15-19 05:58 PM - Post#272700    

I think it's still 2 years off.
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4366
 01-15-19 06:42 PM - Post#272708    

Why have the women figured how to deal with this problem but not the men?
westcoast
Senior
Posts 302
 01-15-19 07:35 PM - Post#272716    

The women decided to play their second game on Tuesday, February 26. This is right in-between the Cornell/Columbia and Dartmouth/Harvard home weekends, so the travel is not a problem, but it is 5 games in 8 days. The men decided they would rather play early (Jan 12) than play on a Tuesday.
dperry
Postdoc
Posts 2215
dperry 		01-15-19 10:55 PM - Post#272726    

  • westcoast Said:
The women decided to play their second game on Tuesday, February 26. This is right in-between the Cornell/Columbia and Dartmouth/Harvard home weekends, so the travel is not a problem, but it is 5 games in 8 days.



As I've mentioned earlier, I suspect one side (whether us or them, I don't know) wants it that way because they think it will give them an advantage. Also, if I'm not mistaken, both the men's games were on NBC Sports Philly; maybe they dictated the timing. It is a relatively slow period for the Power 5 teams.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"

AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts 4366
 01-16-19 09:48 AM - Post#272737    

We have a situation very similar to the women in mid February and a Tuesday game could have been scheduled. There was plenty of time to plan for this.
jeromelh
Junior
Posts 215
 01-16-19 10:16 AM - Post#272743    

As a Princeton grad, I cannot tell you how much I despised the exam schedule. Every year, I spent my Christmas/New Year break studying for finals scheduled for early January. Thank God administration finally saw the light.

I also hate that we played you guys twice in early January. I loved it when you were the last game of the season.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32877
 01-16-19 10:36 AM - Post#272745    

You seem to be unique among Princeton alums---for years, I have fought with Princeton people on this site over its ridiculous exam schedule and said that there is no way anyone in his or her right mind wanted to have finals hovering over them on Winter Break, but was told that it was part of the Princeton tradition and claimed advantages flowing from that system.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
 01-16-19 10:41 AM - Post#272747    

it's as if they were 35 year olds worried that they couldn't fit in studying pre-christmas because of all the holiday shopping and cookie baking they were doing. no 20 year old in their right mind isn't going to want to just get them over with (plus the material is fresher) and have from december 20th through jan 15th to just drink, sleep and play video games.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32877
 01-16-19 10:43 AM - Post#272748    

"Video games" would not have been my 3rd choice there as a 20 year old (or a 60 year old, for that matter), but I get your drift.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
 01-16-19 10:57 AM - Post#272749    

i dunno man, if you put weed in there as a tie with drinking, I'm just not sure what a guy with no girlfriend and not very much game would do. but my kids aren't at that age yet.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32877
 01-16-19 11:13 AM - Post#272751    

Spring Break is all about guys with no game....Winter Break, not so much. You're probably right---although Pinball was my go-to mindless activity back then.
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts 6415
 01-16-19 01:14 PM - Post#272760    

Isn’t it possible that we didn’t want to start the season with 5 straight road games?

Of course, part of the idea of breaking up the road games is actually winning the home game.
jeromelh
Junior
Posts 215
 01-16-19 07:53 PM - Post#272780    

Hi Palestra38

I can assure you that I am not unique. When I returned from Christmas/New Year break, many of my fellow students grumbled about what a miserable time they had during break. I would have rather spent my time with friends and chasing girls instead of studying at the local library. To hell with tradition.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4919
 01-16-19 08:18 PM - Post#272784    

I loved the old setup. Maybe I'm just a better procrastinator, but we had a long reading period before exams and final papers in January, so it was easy to forget about all of it during break if you wanted. And I liked catching up on some of the reading during down time over Christmas--my courses weren't that boring. It made the run-up to the holidays a lot less rushed and more pleasant, too.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32877
 01-16-19 09:04 PM - Post#272793    

Well, I certainly agree with you. But SRP is more typical of Princeton alums of my generation, apparently.
TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts 1892
 01-16-19 09:24 PM - Post#272798    

I’m with SRP on this. I always thought that if you planned your time well, the 3+ weeks between Christmas and exams with no classes was ample to prep for exams and complete final papers etc. I’m pretty sure that I enjoyed the run up to Christmas, and the week of Thanksgiving for that matter, more than friends that we’re cramming for December finals.
jeromelh
Junior
Posts 215
 01-16-19 09:40 PM - Post#272801    

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I was just unable to forget about my course work during the holidays. Yes there was ample time, but you can never be too prepared. This was especially true my freshman year when it seemed to me that everyone was brighter. There were innumerable classmates that were as obsessive-compulsive as I was.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
 01-16-19 09:50 PM - Post#272804    

of course there's "ample" time. there's ample time to do everything when you're in college. the difference is the people who didn't have to study had more fun during winter break.

and obviously princeton finally recognized the bleeding obviousness of this so I'm right.
1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts 2277
1LotteryPick1969 		01-17-19 08:06 AM - Post#272815    

  • SRP Said:
I loved the old setup. Maybe I'm just a better procrastinator, but we had a long reading period before exams and final papers in January, so it was easy to forget about all of it during break if you wanted. And I liked catching up on some of the reading during down time over Christmas--my courses weren't that boring. It made the run-up to the holidays a lot less rushed and more pleasant, too.



Completely agree....more time to absorb the material, rather than cram for the test.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32877
 01-17-19 09:08 AM - Post#272817    

If you haven't absorbed the material over 12-14 weeks of the fall semester, you are likely to be cramming before the test whenever it is. Having tests hanging over you on break means there is no break---it's just a really long "reading period." I think the real difference is that you older Princeton grads have a very different view of what the break was about than today's students.
1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts 2277
1LotteryPick1969 		01-17-19 11:17 AM - Post#272822    

  • palestra38 Said:
If you haven't absorbed the material over 12-14 weeks of the fall semester, you are likely to be cramming before the test whenever it is. Having tests hanging over you on break means there is no break---it's just a really long "reading period." I think the real difference is that you older Princeton grads have a very different view of what the break was about than today's students.



I have no doubt about the second point you make.

Regarding the first part, some things must be brute force memorized, not just absorbed. I am sitting here looking at my notes from Biochemistry 543 Intermediary Metabolism, which I still largely remember.

Charles Gilvarg, who taught the course, emphasized the iterative nature of memorization. The long break was useful for this.

Now I am sure there are arguments these days about the lack of necessity to memorize, since things are easily "googled", but when I lecture the medical residents these days about biochemistry, their recollection of simple biochemistry is so limited, it's hard to explain anything.

palestra38
Professor
Posts 32877
 01-17-19 11:22 AM - Post#272823    

I'm not in any way knocking the Princeton education--there is no other Ivy school in which full professors actually teach most of the undergraduates in small classes. BTW, I think the smaller classes do more to foster learning than brute memorization.

But I would have been miserable if I had to take my entire winter break studying....and apparently, today's students agree with me.
The Grape King
Freshman
Posts 20
 01-17-19 03:28 PM - Post#272828    

Princeton takes fall finals after Christmas? Christ.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32877
 01-17-19 03:30 PM - Post#272829    

Always has----as did everyone at a time where students were expected to sit in their robes, smoke a pipe and have the maids clean their rooms (FYI--my freshman year at Penn, '74-'75, was the last year of maid service in the Quad). But the Princeton schedule is the reason we always have to force our games in against them.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
 01-17-19 03:38 PM - Post#272832    

so wait, when did penn switch?
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32877
 01-17-19 03:54 PM - Post#272834    

It was before my time---I believe it happened some time in the '60s. But Harvard did it until 2010--most switched in the '70s because I remember it being an issue at some of the other schools when I visited to call basketball games. I'll look to see if I can find anything definitive.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21276
 01-17-19 03:57 PM - Post#272836    

Christ took an even bigger fall after Christmas, but that was many months later.

  • The Grape King Said:
Princeton takes fall finals after Christmas? Christ.
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21276
 01-17-19 04:01 PM - Post#272837    

My freshman year in the Quad was a decade later. My roommate and I shared a tiny, narrow closet and there wasn't even enough space between our beds to fit a mattress in case we wanted to have someone else stay in our room.

After that, I lived in HRN where at least there was air conditioning. Did I mention that Philly was in the midst of a heat wave when I moved in?

  • palestra38 Said:
Always has----as did everyone at a time where students were expected to sit in their robes, smoke a pipe and have the maids clean their rooms (FYI--my freshman year at Penn, '74-'75, was the last year of maid service in the Quad). But the Princeton schedule is the reason we always have to force our games in against them.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4919
 01-17-19 04:28 PM - Post#272838    

  • Quote:
Now I am sure there are arguments these days about the lack of necessity to memorize, since things are easily "googled", but when I lecture the medical residents these days about biochemistry, their recollection of simple biochemistry is so limited, it's hard to explain anything.



You could look up number facts and multiplication tables long before Google, but no sensible person suggested that people could do arithmetic very well without memorizing those.
westcoast
Senior
Posts 302
 01-17-19 04:37 PM - Post#272839    

Princeton finals started yesterday, going from January 16-25. The finals were preceded by Reading Period from January 7-15, which is a time used for writing papers, going to review sessions, and studying (but no actuall classes).
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3619
Mike Porter 		01-17-19 04:59 PM - Post#272840    

  • PennFan10 Said:
Villanova is 67 KP on defense FWIW



Hi PF10 - sorry I missed this earlier.

Yeah, at the time Temple was 67 and Nova was 65. After Temple's last game (an away win still), their defense is ranked 76 now.

To be clear, a month ago I would have been confident we would beat Temple away because we were playing that well. Unfortunately, that month feels a long time ago and the offensive play has been way down since.

Absolutely still think this team has the talent to beat Temple in a Big 5 battle, but it is more to ask now that it was earlier in the season.

Here's to hoping for a big bounce back game for the guys. One thing I do like is that we're sandwiched in between ever important conference games for Temple and their riding high, so hopefully they underestimate us. Doubtful with Dunphy's last game against Penn, but let's see.

What's your view into the downturn? As simple as Mike and Max's injuries or something more?
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32877
 01-17-19 05:00 PM - Post#272841    

It's not just Max and Mike---it's Betley and Williams and Tyler. We just don't have the depth this year to take that kind of body blow rash of injuries.
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts 3619
Mike Porter 		01-17-19 05:27 PM - Post#272843    

In the big picture, yes, absolutely hurt to lose them and think we could have been even better (maybe those Kansas State or Oregon State games go differently) had they really played this year.

That said, Betley and Williams essentially never played, and we still managed to play well enough to get to that 10-2 record. So for those purposes of my question, I'm not factoring them in the equation.

I'm particularly talking about those last 4 games where the team just really wasn't the same. Easy answer is Mike and Max injuries and could be as simple as that, but seems like more to me considering the downturn in offensive play from our guards that I shared before.
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts 4466
 01-17-19 06:08 PM - Post#272849    

i normally hate when threads turn this far away from their topic into frivolity. but talking about penn the last 4 games is just nauseating. it's so much more than wins and losses. it's like every worst case scenario about how we could lose was instituted as my personal torture. Get blown out to a team from flyover country. Lose to an 0-12 team and miss several freethrows, lose to your historic rival, then double it up with a loss after blowing a 10 point lead in the first half and playing offense with the dexterity of giraffes on roller skates. This is like that show The Good Place where demons work on personalizing torture.

Has anyone seen that? Let's talk about Kristen Bell for the next 20 posts.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32877
 01-17-19 06:11 PM - Post#272850    

I normally hate TV series, but really like that show
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32877
 01-17-19 06:14 PM - Post#272851    

The two are clearly tied---without Max, we don't have nearly as good ball movement--he plays the high post Princeton offense better than Princeton has in years. And without Wang, ugh....he was the sole reason we overcame the loss of Betley. Without those two guys, our guards go from 3-4 option to 2nd and it's too much to overcome offensively. I think we did a good job on Princeton defensively, but we had no one who could hit a damn shot
Redfish
Masters Student
Posts 767
Redfish 		01-17-19 07:31 PM - Post#272857    

Doesn't Spencer Glover have eligibility left?
penn nation
Professor
Posts 21276
 01-17-19 07:44 PM - Post#272858    

This line has no statute of limitations.
TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts 1892
 01-17-19 10:05 PM - Post#272866    

Come on, please talk about Princeton’s exam schedule some more. I so enjoy Penn fans’ complete obsession with Princeton.
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2818
 01-17-19 10:42 PM - Post#272868    

I understand why you are living under a bridge in Phoenix.
dperry
Postdoc
Posts 2215
dperry 		01-18-19 09:34 AM - Post#272886    

  • penn nation Said:
Christ took an even bigger fall after Christmas, but that was many months later.

  • The Grape King Said:
Princeton takes fall finals after Christmas? Christ.






Yeah, but then He made a comeback for the ages!
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"

Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12533
 01-25-19 11:41 PM - Post#273585    

How in the world did no one mention the Cannady incident here?? Kind of a big deal. Of course it happens after we get them twice.
LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts 1712
 01-25-19 11:45 PM - Post#273586    

  • Quakers03 Said:
How in the world did no one mention the Cannady incident here?? Kind of a big deal. Of course it happens after we get them twice.



I think we all migrated over to the Princeton board to discuss it. I made a big stink about the scheduling and how we got shafted by playing against him twice while the rest of the league will likely miss him altogether.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3590
 02-24-19 08:26 PM - Post#277880    

This Cannaday situation doesn't smell right to me. First, I never understood why he was reinstated so quickly, then plays several games and just as mysteriously disappears this weekend. It's not because of a court date. That court date would have taken all of 10 minutes (after a multiple hour wait probably).

Something else is going on.
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12533
 02-24-19 10:07 PM - Post#277899    

It’s a disgrace that he was allowed back so quickly.
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2818
 02-25-19 11:38 PM - Post#278004    

What do you know, Pompous genius?
LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts 1712
 02-26-19 12:00 AM - Post#278008    

It’s pretty suspicious the way he disappeared again. What’s going on?
Quakers03
Professor
Posts 12533
 02-26-19 01:51 PM - Post#278069    

  • Tiger69 Said:
What do you know, Pompous genius?


I know that lots and lots of questions remain unanswered and letting him play with those questions still out there was quite irresponsible.
SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts 1156
 02-26-19 02:12 PM - Post#278075    

Article today from the Daily Princetonian

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/article/2019/02/c...
section110
Masters Student
Posts 847
 02-26-19 03:15 PM - Post#278090    

See my post on the Princeton board. Cannaday's is receiving routine treatment in the Municipal Court. If I couldn't get the downgrade & the postponement of a first listing, I would question whether I had lost my skills. I also expect he will get a diversionary disposition with the ultimate dismissal of the charges, maybe with a modest fine. Can't answer for Princeton; but it seems they are following their procedures & guidelines.
LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts 1712
 02-26-19 03:37 PM - Post#278092    

  • SteveChop Said:
Article today from the Daily Princetonian

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/article/2019/02/c...




Honorable John McCarthy ’69, told both lawyers that even though he is a University alumnus, there was no reason to believe he could not act as a fair and impartial judge.

Right, and there's no reason that Barr should recuse himself from the Mueller investigation. I wonder where McCarthy sits at Jadwin - just courtside or on the bench itself?
rbg
Postdoc
Posts 3066
 02-26-19 04:42 PM - Post#278106    

According to his bio, he got his undergraduate degree at Princeton ('69) and his law degree at the University of Pennsylvania ('73).
LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts 1712
 02-26-19 04:59 PM - Post#278108    

Hmm, I’ve always felt that your undergrad alma mater is your true allegiance. This proves it.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 847
 02-26-19 06:01 PM - Post#278117    

Jack's loyalty is definitely to Princeton But nothing that has occurred in Cannady's case is out of the usual. I could, if I were doing my job right, get the same outcome for any client in front of him *even though he lost Penn/Princeton bets to me, or in front of any reasonable Municipal Court judge.
LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts 1712
 02-26-19 06:10 PM - Post#278119    

I dunno, you've gotta figure he was at Penn Law School during the peak of Penn's national prominence including the undefeated 1971 season**, which must have burned him up. You don't get over humiliation like that easily.

**Howard Porter cheated his way to Villanova eventually vacating its victory over Penn on the way to its vacated Final Four appearance.
section110
Masters Student
Posts 847
 02-26-19 06:21 PM - Post#278120    

I may be too cocky @ the outcome, given it was a police officer he took a swing at; but, so far Cannady hasn't received any special treatment from the court.
LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts 1712
 02-26-19 06:42 PM - Post#278125    

Well, it seems that the "outcome" has already been determined. Cannady is back on the basketball court; that's the only court that matters. Whether he gets off scot free or goes to jail makes no difference to me. I am still very curious about why he didn't play against Cornell and Columbia. Something's weird here.

So Princeton athletics run deep in the judge's family. His father played varsity basketball for Princeton and was also a baseball star who became the second player to hit a homer over the fence at Cornell - after Lou Gehrig did it for Columbia.

I know, he's an upstanding citizen of the highest moral character,so why should he recuse? Oh, that's why.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32877
 02-26-19 06:45 PM - Post#278126    

I guarantee that a Judge would not risk his reputation over Princeton basketball. Maybe UNC or Kansas, but not here. Moreover, he disclosed his association and either the prosecution or defense could have caused him to recuse. This is a non-issue.
LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts 1712
 02-26-19 07:00 PM - Post#278129    

Relax, you lawyers crack me up. You actually think this is serious? C'mon.

At least you didn’t call it a Nothing Burger.

And I thought accounting was the profession with the least sense of humor...
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32877
 02-26-19 08:54 PM - Post#278136    

If you think your diatribe was funny, it's pretty clear that teachers have the worst sense of humor.
LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts 1712
 02-26-19 09:41 PM - Post#278150    

Diatribe? Really? Ok, if you say so. I would say it was ironic, but that may have been lost in writing or simply lost on someone who doesn’t pick up on subtlety.

Diatribe? Maybe you could use some vocabulary work. I have some materials I can loan you.
Cvonvorys
Postdoc
Posts 4508
Cvonvorys 		02-26-19 10:57 PM - Post#278153    

  • rbg Said:
According to his bio, he got his undergraduate degree at Princeton ('69) and his law degree at the University of Pennsylvania ('73).



Well there's really no argument that Penn has a better law school than Princeton...
section110
Masters Student
Posts 847
 02-26-19 11:37 PM - Post#278157    

And a better med school, grad business school, dental school, vet school, grad nursing & education schools, etc., etc. Why is Princeton allowed to call itself a university?
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2818
 02-26-19 11:41 PM - Post#278158    

How does this “proves it”?
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2818
 02-26-19 11:44 PM - Post#278159    

Lyle,

It’s not fair to assume that everyone is as prejudiced as you.
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2818
 02-26-19 11:47 PM - Post#278160    

We don’t need a vet school. I can send my cats to Penn😁
LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts 1712
 02-27-19 07:37 AM - Post#278167    

  • section110 Said:
Why is Princeton allowed to call itself a university?



So we can say PU every time we refer to them.
LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts 1712
 02-27-19 07:39 AM - Post#278168    

  • Tiger69 Said:
Lyle,

It’s not fair to assume that everyone is as prejudiced as you.



If you're going to take everything so literally, can't you at least call me a Pompous Genius?
HGA
Sophomore
Posts 106
 02-27-19 07:40 AM - Post#278169    

This is supposed to be a basketball site.
10Q
Professor
Posts 23495
 02-27-19 07:53 AM - Post#278171    

Yeah. Take it to the OTB.



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