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whitakk Masters Student Posts 523 |
03-10-19 09:44 AM - Post#280388
Who you got? |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
03-10-19 11:16 AM - Post#280399
I'm interested in who you got. 1st team Brodeur Morgan Oni Aririguzoh Aiken I need more time to think about 2nd team. Plenty of deserving candidates. Cambridge and Steffanini come to mind. POY Brodeur DPOY Numbers say Choh so I'll go with him |
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Old Bear Postdoc Posts 4002 |
03-10-19 12:05 PM - Post#280418
Okolie should be DPOY, for sure. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2697 |
03-10-19 01:20 PM - Post#280438
It's in the Okolie genes! Think of Obie but as a 6'8" guard and you see how good his older brother Agunwa was on defense for Harvard. |
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Old Bear Postdoc Posts 4002 |
03-10-19 01:22 PM - Post#280439
Agunwa was at Obie's game last week. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-10-19 02:07 PM - Post#280453
Just posted on Twitter, but my thoughts: POY: Aiken ROY: Noah DPOY: Okolie COY: Amaker 1st Team: Aiken* Morgan* Brodeur* Oni* Knight I think we’ll see Copeland, Aririguzoh, Tape, Choh, Stefanini as other prime 2nd team/HM candidates. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8295 
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03-10-19 02:21 PM - Post#280459
Amaker as COY? You can't be serious unless you are saying it defaults to the regular season winner no matter how well they actually coached. If it were the latter, he would be 8th on my list. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-10-19 02:29 PM - Post#280468
Projecting what *will* happen. My COY would be Mike or Brian. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8295
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03-10-19 02:42 PM - Post#280474
Agree on those. Engles has done an amazing with that Columbia team as well. I'd have trouble choosing from those 3. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-10-19 03:10 PM - Post#280484
Talk about a guy who milked, every, last, drop out of the talent he had. That being said, the record in close games and the fact that the talent could have been a lot better... those are tiebreakers against, IMO. Putting both on the coach might be harsh, but that’s my take. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2697 |
03-10-19 03:13 PM - Post#280486
Nice. Both are class acts. Must be a wonderful grounded family to produce such young men. Both Brown and Harvard were very fortunate to have them as students and players. |
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Bruno PhD Student Posts 1422 |
03-10-19 04:08 PM - Post#280495
I think you may see Okolie get 2nd team. They like seniors and his Ivy numbers are very good.
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2697 |
03-10-19 04:26 PM - Post#280497
Deservedly so. With Amakers playing time rotations and injuries I only see Aiken as first team and Kirkwood as ROY. A lot of spots are open. Guys like Lewis and Bassey had been thought to be locks. Choh could get in there. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6415 |
03-10-19 05:04 PM - Post#280505
On the historical senior bias, I actually could see Okolie on the first team. Aiken, Oni, Brodeur, and Morgan seem like unanimous locks. Other spot could be a lot of guys, but i’ll Guess it is one of the seniors: Okolie, Copeland, or even Stephens. That said, I think mrjames has secret sources on this and just tells us what it will be with maybe one mistake just to make it look like he isn’t cheating. |
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whitakk Masters Student Posts 523 |
03-10-19 06:27 PM - Post#280515
I have: First-team: Aiken, Morgan, Oni, Brodeur, Knight. But the last spot could go to any of the next 5-7 candidates and I wouldn't mind (first four will be easily unanimous). Second-team: Stefanini, Choh, Aririguzoh, Cambridge, Copeland. Tape and Stephens the next two out. POY: Aiken reluctantly, because I do think non-conference should be a factor, but still his 13 games were just amazing. Aiken, Oni, Morgan, Brodeur's seasons would have all been good enough to win this award in either of the last two years. ROY: Kirkwood by default in a weak year. DPOY: I don't have a feel for this at all -- it was a very strong year for defense throughout the league but more at a team level than any superstars. I'm happy to ride the Okolie wave but wouldn't object if the best guy from any of the top six teams won it. COY: I would probably opt for Earl, but surprised James Jones hasn't been mentioned -- yes, injury luck, but Yale was ranked 3rd preseason and turned out to be the league's clear best team on performance. Given his rep I wouldn't be surprised at all if he won it. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6415 |
03-10-19 09:25 PM - Post#280565
If we count OOC, Cambridge should be there. Just in conference, though, he can’t possibly be there. He had a shockingly bad conference season, shooting 26% from the field, 74 ORAT, 0 win shares, etc. Yes, he makes jaw dropping plays, is the focal point for opposing defenses, and is the clear emotional leader of a solid (and rapidly improving) team. But the numbers were just awful, and they are exacerbated by a very high usage rate. |
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Bruno PhD Student Posts 1422 |
03-10-19 10:43 PM - Post#280573
I agree on Cambridge. He played the most high variance game in the Ivy season I have ever seen. But he was way off a lot more than he was way on. He was probably the best player in the league in the OOC and arguably the ‘worst’ in the Ivy due to the bad streaks compounded by incredibly high usage. (Although in fairness, in nearly every game where he tanked offensively, he still made other difference-making plays on both offense and defense). What do they count, by the way? Only in-conference or full season? I should know this but I have brown blinders on.
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4917 |
03-10-19 11:38 PM - Post#280578
One lens I find interesting is to think about what would happen if college basketball looked like Little League and each conference put together an all-star team that would then go off and play for the title in some tournament structure. Whom would you pick then? It would be a tough set of choices and you might want to put in some guys without the gaudy stats whose skill sets would mesh, e.g. somebody like Phills or Woods. |
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1LotteryPick1969 Postdoc Posts 2277 
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03-11-19 06:39 AM - Post#280586
COY: surprised James Jones hasn't been mentioned -- yes, injury luck, but Yale was ranked 3rd preseason and turned out to be the league's clear best team on performance. Given his rep I wouldn't be surprised at all if he won it. He's my COY--again his team is talent laden and plays so well together. His ability to recruit is amazing. |
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rbg Postdoc Posts 3060 |
03-11-19 09:14 AM - Post#280607
I'm going with POY: Brodeur (Penn) I think it certainly could be Brodeur, Oni or Aiken. Aiken was phenomenal and Harvard would not be co-champs without him. I gave AJ the nod due to his full season of excellence and his slightly better numbers than Oni, who also had an incredible full season. DPOY: Okolie (Brown) Again, it certainly could go to a number of worthy candidates - Phills, Bassey and Stephens COY: Mike Martin (Brown) Another strong competition - Jones had a healthy group for the first time in 3 years and produced a strong championship team; Amaker had to deal with major injuries and also produced a championship; Donahue had to deal with major injuries and a less deep roster than Harvard. With that, he managed to lead his team to a Big 5 title (4-0) and make it into the Ivy Tournament. With that noted, Mike Martin has gone 45-71 (avg 11.25-17.75) and 15-41 (avg 3.75-10.25) in conference the last 4 years. Also, a large number of players were leaving the program for various reasons. He has stabled the program over the last two years and went 19-11 (school record for wins) and 7-7 in conference this season. He also did it by going from an offense-first group to one with a really strong defense. I for one did not see this coming at the beginning of November and think he deserves a lot of credit for the job he did. 1st Team Brodeur (Penn), Oni (Yale), Aiken (Harvard), Morgan (Cornell), Aririguzoh (Princeton) |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2142 |
03-11-19 09:27 AM - Post#280609
One lens I find interesting is to think about what would happen if college basketball looked like Little League and each conference put together an all-star team that would then go off and play for the title in some tournament structure. Whom would you pick then? It would be a tough set of choices and you might want to put in some guys without the gaudy stats whose skill sets would mesh, e.g. somebody like Phills or Woods. Oh, man. This is an interesting thought exercise. What do you think, 15-man roster? I'm not going to break it down into starters and reserves yet, but here are my ideas, just based on what I've seen of this year's Ivy competition. Let's DQ Cannady, simply because he did not complete the season. Guards: Aiken, Woods (Swiss Army knife defender), Copeland, Stefanini (who could be beaten out by Morgan), Goodman Wings: Oni, Cambridge, Okolie, Bassey, Stephens Post: Brodeur, Lewis, Choh, Knight, Aririguzoh I have to think about who falls into my next tier, of guys who would be good alternates. |
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SRP Postdoc Posts 4917 |
03-11-19 12:50 PM - Post#280629
That would be a good defensive group in a good defensive year for the league. I might want more than two reliable three-point shooters,though. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2142 |
03-11-19 01:07 PM - Post#280632
That's a good point, though I think Aiken, Copeland and Stefanini could light you up pretty well, and Cambridge would either shoot you into the game, or shoot you out of it (shades of J.R. Smith!). My choices pretty much reflect the fact that I think defense first. My alternates list would include guys like Morgan, Adlesh, Kirkwood, Phills and possibly Tape (reward for his late season improvement). |
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PeteD Masters Student Posts 557 
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03-11-19 01:08 PM - Post#280633
POY: Aiken ROY: Llewellyn DPOY: Oni COY: Engels 1st Team: Aiken Morgan Brodeur Oni Choh 2nd Team: Copeland Aririguzoh Tape Stefanini Okolie HM: Knight, Stephens, Cambridge, Goodman, Adlesh, Boeheim, Bruner & Woods |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32863 |
03-11-19 01:13 PM - Post#280634
That's a very solid list |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2142 |
03-11-19 01:16 PM - Post#280635
I'm not sold on Llewellyn as ROY. I thought Kirkwood had pretty much overtaken all of the competitors by season's end. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32863 |
03-11-19 01:22 PM - Post#280637
I'm actually not sold on anyone from Princeton, but they managed to finish ahead of Penn and beat us twice. You have to reward them in these lists. But man did they look horrible that last weekend. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2142 |
03-11-19 01:57 PM - Post#280643
I'm actually not sold on anyone from Princeton, but they managed to finish ahead of Penn and beat us twice. You have to reward them in these lists. But man did they look horrible that last weekend. The one Princeton guy I thought was deserving was Aririguzoh. That kid made some serious strides this year. He did not have that post game last year, at all. He clearly put in the work, so he should be rewarded. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-11-19 03:10 PM - Post#280665
I think you’ll see Stephens on the second team. |
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1173 |
03-11-19 03:50 PM - Post#280669
I think you’ll see Stephens on the second team. Mike, any news on who's going to win on Saturday? |
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Old Bear Postdoc Posts 4002 |
03-11-19 03:54 PM - Post#280670
Here is an award. https://brownbears.com/news/2019/3/11/mens-b asketb... |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-11-19 09:38 PM - Post#280729
You’re not going to be as impressed with me this year. |
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84grad Junior Posts 277 |
03-12-19 10:28 AM - Post#280768
Have to agree on Kirkwood. Contributed points, rebounds and defense. 7 weekly awards for ROY really makes that one a no brainer, IMO. POY is very interesting. If Penn hadn’t made the tournament, it would have compromised Brodeur’s chances, but they did what they had to do when their backs were to the wall. It all depends on the criteria. If it’s for the full season, it has to be Brodeur, especially with the Big 5 sweep. If it’s for the 14 game tournament, Aiken had too many huge performances (and clutch plays) to deny him the award. Bassey was great as a defender, but he missed too many games. Put me in the Okolie camp. Lot of respect for his play. Coach of year is interesting. Martin and Earl got their teams to the brink of the tournament and have to be considered. Jones had a lot of weapons and a healthy team, so I’m not inclined to go in that direction. I love Steve and he lost a key player and managed to keep the ship afloat, but doesn’t feel like COY. Engles got it going too late and had too many close losses. I’m surprised to say this, but Amaker does deserve a lot of credit given the Towns/ Aiken/ Bassey injuries. Got the share of title by the narrowest margins in many games, but going 6-0 against Ivy tournament teams probably should be rewarded. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8295
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03-12-19 10:41 AM - Post#280772
With regard to Engles - I agree as to the close games, but for me, the extent to which a team improves over the course of the season is a big consideration. The Lions arguably led the league in that respect. |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-12-19 10:51 AM - Post#280776
The All-Ivy ballot explicitly mentions all contests should be considered NOT just Ivy contests. |
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LyleGold PhD Student Posts 1712 |
03-12-19 11:02 AM - Post#280779
The All-Ivy ballot explicitly mentions all contests should be considered NOT just Ivy contests. But votes still submit their ballots and the winners are announced prior to the ILT, right? If so, that's really unfortunate and makes little sense to me. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3589 |
03-12-19 11:02 AM - Post#280780
The All-Ivy ballot explicitly mentions all contests should be considered NOT just Ivy contests. I heard this as well and Mike Martin said as much (Ivy awards are for full year accomplishments) on his show 2 weeks ago. I believe Brodeur, Morgan and Oni are the only candidates to consider for POY in that case. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32863 |
03-12-19 11:12 AM - Post#280782
I wish you had mentioned that before I suggested the same on the Harvard board and got killed for it. But whatever. I think that this takes Aiken out of the picture (still has to be considered, but 1st team all Ivy will be certain). As for COY, I don't think anyone really can win it except for Amaker---you have to look at all those injuries and close wins. That's coaching, no matter the knock on him on his game coaching. This year, his team won the title just barely outscoring the opposition. That's COY performance. |
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Naismith Sophomore Posts 150 |
03-12-19 11:56 AM - Post#280789
Martin COY by a very slim edge on how he now has Brown in the weekly and annual discussions after slow and steady growth. Most improved team in league. Earl in 2 years now has a relatively undisciplined offensive team believing in back door cuts. And yes, Amaker right there as well, delivered what the pre-season voters predicted, but mostly on best use of depth over season, having lost the headliners that prompted voters to their pre-season votes. (OK 1 headliner did the work of 3 for 13 games.) |
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
03-12-19 12:01 PM - Post#280790
Yeah, I don't think we've ever seen as dramatic a case as Aiken to really test the "how heavily weighted is the Ivy campaign?" point. Results are out at 3pm. Very interested to see what everyone thinks! |
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Quakers03 Professor Posts 12533 |
03-12-19 12:06 PM - Post#280795
As for COY, I don't think anyone really can win it except for Amaker---you have to look at all those injuries and close wins. That's coaching, no matter the knock on him on his game coaching. This year, his team won the title just barely outscoring the opposition. That's COY performance. Do doubt he deserves credit and I agree should be COY, but a superstar who puts your team on his back with circus shots that he creates all on his own makes quite a difference. Did Jerome learn how to coach in the Penn 2012 run or did Zack just carry him? |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32863 |
03-12-19 12:14 PM - Post#280801
Decent point, but Penn was fully healthy that year(until Bernardini got hurt late) and got major contributions from Belcore and Cartwright. This Harvard team seemingly got outplayed time and time again and came away with Ws. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8295
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03-12-19 02:44 PM - Post#280843
I'm pretty sure Amaker is going to win, but it's really on the strength of his recruiting and finishing 1st. I still think Martin, Earl, and Engles did a better job of actual coaching. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3589 |
03-12-19 03:04 PM - Post#280846
https://ivyleague.com/news/2019/3/12/mens-b asketba... Congrats to POY Miye Oni, DPOY Obie Okolie, ROY Noah Kirkwood and COY Mike Martin |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32863 |
03-12-19 03:15 PM - Post#280848
While I thought Oni was outplayed in the two Penn games, his overall body of work and more importantly, being on a title team, put him over the top. Maybe next year for AJ. But congrats to all who made it. |
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1173 |
03-12-19 03:19 PM - Post#280849
Astonishing: Senior Matt Morgan concluded his career as the second leading scorer in Ivy League history with 2,309 points and is on pace to become the first player to pace the League in scoring all four years of his career after finishing the season with 22.1, which currently ranks 18th in the nation. His 80-game double-figure scoring streak is a program and League record, while ranking 12th in NCAA history. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32863 |
03-12-19 03:22 PM - Post#280850
He's a great offensive player. Maybe the best I have seen since Keven McDonald in the 1970s....and imagine how many points he might have scored had Hatter not been there for 2 years taking a lot of his shots. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
03-12-19 03:47 PM - Post#280855
LOL at Oni winning. Sure, he'a a wonderful player but he's owned by a guy who isn't even HM. I would have picked any of the 3 other unanimous players over him. I admit a bias here because I've seen him play against Penn 5 times in the past 2 years and he's had maybe 1 good game out of the 5. I can't erase memories of those games. Very happy that Stefanini is 2nd team and Tape 3rd team. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2142 |
03-12-19 04:13 PM - Post#280858
LOL at Oni winning. Sure, he'a a wonderful player but he's owned by a guy who isn't even HM. I would have picked any of the 3 other unanimous players over him. I admit a bias here because I've seen him play against Penn 5 times in the past 2 years and he's had maybe 1 good game out of the 5. I can't erase memories of those games. Very happy that Stefanini is 2nd team and Tape 3rd team. According to this Q&A with IHO, Oni thinks the lighting in the Palestra is "weird". I still think it's Woods' defense that threw him off stride in both the semifinal game in last year's tournament and last Friday's game. |
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JadwinGeorge Senior Posts 357 |
03-12-19 04:22 PM - Post#280861
I join in extending congrats to all players who received recognition and to Coach Martin. That said, I don't understand how Myles Stephens was bypassed for DPOY, especially since he made the first team. If anything, his defense this year was better than in his sophomore year when he won the award. Aririguhzoh went from 9 mpg as a sophomore to second team All Ivy. In my opinion he outplayed Brodeur in both of their meetings this season and every other 5 spot player (except Tape) through the whole season. |
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JadwinGeorge Senior Posts 357 |
03-12-19 04:27 PM - Post#280863
I agree absolutely. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
03-12-19 04:30 PM - Post#280864
It wasn't the lights, it was Woods. Same thing in the 2 Palestra games last year. And let's throw in the game at Yale last year as well. I've seen other games where Oni looked more like a POY player. Then again, I could say the same for Aiken, Morgan or Brodeur. |
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whitakk Masters Student Posts 523 |
03-12-19 04:34 PM - Post#280867
Oni was top-5 in league play in points, assists and blocks, and was T-6 in rebounds. He was pretty efficient on 28% usage, and an impact defender. This wasn't just a "best player on best team" default - he's a legitimately deserving POY. (And any of the other three would have been as well.) |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32863 |
03-12-19 04:49 PM - Post#280870
Well, Aririguzoh had 2 very good offensive games against Penn. But his 20/7/0 (pts, rebounds, blocks) were not better than Brodeur's 18/15/2 in the first game and although Brodeur had a poor shooting game in the 2nd game, the comparison of Aririguzoh's 17/9/2 with Brodeur's 16/12/5 is at most, slightly in your favor. I think the reason Princeton won those two games was the sudden loss of Wang and the terrible games of Goodman and Washington in the Palestra game. But I agree that Aririguzoh had 2 very good offensive games against Penn. AJ's overall season had him at the top of more statistical categories than any other Ivy player. |
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TheLine Professor Posts 5597 |
03-12-19 04:49 PM - Post#280871
Aririguhzoh went from 9 mpg as a sophomore to second team All Ivy. In my opinion he outplayed Brodeur in both of their meetings this season and every other 5 spot player (except Tape) through the whole season. Yes to this. The league has never had this many quality bigs. Knight is a super player, his honor is well-deserved. We haven't even discussed Atkinson, Bruner and Lewis. |
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tkapiko Freshman Posts 28 |
03-12-19 05:03 PM - Post#280876
Can't we all just be happy for those who won? Multiple players are deserving of many of the honors, but in the end only a few will win. As you can see, this is not a one-on-one battle selection. It has to do with the entire body of work all season. For example, I can imagine Aiken being the POY if he played the entire season with his clutch performances, but then again, he might not be able to sustain his scoring. Morgan is the best scorer in the league and he has the scoring title 4 years in a row, but his team did not make the IL tournament. Brodeur is also a legitimate candidate. This just shows the level of competition in the IL. You can go on and on about this. Congrats to all who won. |
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bradley PhD Student Posts 1842 |
03-12-19 05:07 PM - Post#280877
Other than the slam dunk players, top four -- Morgan, Aiken, Oni and Brodeur, the remaining two slots could have been given to several other players but Copeland and Stephens are seniors and they performed well. I would have given POY award to Morgan, followed very closely by Aiken and if the two flipped, no biggie. As to DPY, it is always a tough call. Morris deserves recognition and he really did a great job in elevating Brown. Would have made sense if Amaker got it as well based on Crimson's IL record and injuries. So many factors in deciding on these awards but overall decisions seemed reasonable. Morgan seems to have received the short end of the stick several times over the years but he does not play in a media hot spot. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21261 |
03-12-19 05:20 PM - Post#280881
Having nothing to do with Oni's performance, but having attended plenty of Palestra games in the 80s, the new lighting does seem quite unusual. You really feel like you are under the literal and figurative spotlight. |
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Naismith Sophomore Posts 150 |
03-12-19 05:33 PM - Post#280883
If media hot spots were the criteria for post-season honors, Penn would have swept the board. Just fill in the blanks where you want each player honored. |
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LyleGold PhD Student Posts 1712 |
03-12-19 08:21 PM - Post#280895
Having nothing to do with Oni's performance, but having attended plenty of Palestra games in the 80s, the new lighting does seem quite unusual. You really feel like you are under the literal and figurative spotlight. I posted this comment on another board this afternoon whereit got lost, so I’ll paste it here since it seems to fit in: It's only the last couple years that the lighting in the Palestra has stopped being weird. For ages it was a dark, shadowy gym that was only illuminated by mercury vapor lights hanging from the ceiling. Before the renovation in the late 80s when they painted the skylights, at least you had some natural light for the occasional Saturday afternoon games. When they put in the new floor about a dozen or so years ago, they added a bank of really bright lights fairly low down on the south side. Those of us on the north side had bright lights in our eyes while the players on the court were in the shadows. (P38 among others can attest that I complained repeatedly over the years about how awful the lighting was from our seats and tried to convince him to switch to the other side.) I believe this was done for tv since the standard camera shot is from the box above the south stands. Finally they added a matching bank on our side a couple years ago, so at least we're not limited to seeing the dark side of the Quakers (to paraphrase Pink Floyd.) I don't know what effect that has on the court, but it can only help shooting since you're never looking into lights when you're facing the basket. I think Oni has a mental block after Antonio shut him down, and homecourt lighting won't change that. |
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