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Chet Forte Postdoc Posts 2974 |
03-11-20 10:16 AM - Post#304180
Easily the most gifted offensive player in the IL, and by far the leader in points scored, Smith was relegated to second team status. I for one think it is an outrage. Every opposing coach double and triple teamed him and yet he still led the league. Just disgraceful and small minded; if anything it shows a deep seated anti-Columbia bias on the part of at least some of the other coaches. If he was only a second teamed why was your entire game plan directed toward doubling and tripling him?
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internetter Postdoc Posts 3400 |
03-11-20 10:20 AM - Post#304181
https://ivyleague.com/news/2020/3/10/ivy-le ague-ha... Smith 2nd team
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Go Green PhD Student Posts 1149 |
03-11-20 11:53 AM - Post#304207
Easily the most gifted offensive player in the IL, and by far the leader in points scored, Smith was relegated to second team status. I for one think it is an outrage. Every opposing coach double and triple teamed him and yet he still led the league. Just disgraceful and small minded; if anything it shows a deep seated anti-Columbia bias on the part of at least some of the other coaches. If he was only a second teamed why was your entire game plan directed toward doubling and tripling him? Chris Knight can make a lot of the same arguments. |
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Chet Forte Postdoc Posts 2974 |
03-11-20 12:23 PM - Post#304214
Knight is an excellent player, to be sure. But Smith was a one man scoring machine in circumstances in which he was double and triple teamed all year and still led the league in scoring by far.
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
03-11-20 12:58 PM - Post#304221
There were some good selections, and some bad ones. Clearly, the league was having a bad day in many ways when it had its calls. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
03-11-20 02:24 PM - Post#304243
I don’t think there is an anti-Columbia or anti-Smith bias. The league has fairly routinely left high scorers off the All-Ivy first team when the team doesn’t win. In fact, among the last 7 players to average 20 points per game in conference, 5 of them did not make first team. (Boudreaux and Morgan both averaged 20 twice and were 2nd team, and now Smith). It also has been a while since a player whose team wasn’t either .500 or in the Ivy tourney made first team. The last one was Brown’s Steven Spieth. And his team won 4. So I don’t think Smith is getting treated differently. |
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Chet Forte Postdoc Posts 2974 |
03-11-20 03:27 PM - Post#304256
This was actually a travesty: Smith led the league in scoring at 24.4 PPG, 6 PPG more than the runner up. He led the league in steals at 2 PG. He led the league in minutes played. And finally he was second in assists at 4.3 per game.
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Old Bear Postdoc Posts 3998 |
03-11-20 04:15 PM - Post#304271
The runner up didn’t even get H M. |
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HGA Sophomore Posts 106 |
03-11-20 05:26 PM - Post#304303
Agree that Smith got robbed! For Yale to get 3 1st team selections, CoY, and co Defensive PoY is truly a refection of too much respect for a 10-3 team. |
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Old Bear Postdoc Posts 3998 |
03-11-20 07:38 PM - Post#304325
I think the coaches, who have watched hours of film, may have a better perspective than I do. |
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Columbia 37P6 Postdoc Posts 2180 |
03-11-20 07:50 PM - Post#304328
Does Engles owe his job to Mike Smith for keeping the scores respectable this season? |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
03-11-20 11:05 PM - Post#304353
My point is just that it isn’t unusual. Boudreaux averaged more than 20 ppg in conference and led the league in rebounding by about 3 per game. He averaged a double double, and still only made second team. And his team was in it until the final weekend. It may be a travesty, but it isn’t a Smith or Columbia specific travesty. This is how these votes go. I didn’t get everything right in my predictions, but I did predict Yale would get 3, and that Smith and Anderson wouldn’t make first team. Obviously there is a statistical argument for Smith. But I think coaches are more interested in wins and losses, and they value that more than who has the best individual stats, even when evaluating individual players. |
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Chet Forte Postdoc Posts 2974 |
03-12-20 12:49 PM - Post#304425
How do you think James Jones voted when it came to Smith. Just asking.
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
03-12-20 03:06 PM - Post#304461
I have no idea how Jones votes. Given the way that the voting went overall, I could see how he might favor the Harvard and Penn guys who beat Yale. Or the Princeton and Cornell kids who came very close. The argument against Smith for Jones just based on the Yale games would be that neither game was close, and in the second game Smith only went off when the game was already out of hand (25 points in the second half when Columbia was already down 20). Smith actually didn’t play very well when the game was being lost in the first half — he had a stretch where he made 1 of 7 shots and turned it over 3 times as Columbia fell behind by 20. But that’s just the argument against Smith (there’s an argument against everyone in the league except maybe Atkinson). It is also quite possible that Jones voted for Smith. |
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Chet Forte Postdoc Posts 2974 |
 03-12-20 09:53 PM - Post#304507
I do not think that 25 points in the second half against Yale were a result of anything other than massive talent and a refusal to mail it in against a better team. Mike Smith is a warrior; he was mugged all season and never lost his willingness to drive into the paint.
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
03-12-20 10:24 PM - Post#304508
Certainly a positive to not give up, and 25 points in a half is hard to do. With a big lead, though, Jones may have been perfectly happy to trade baskets, and may not have been particularly concerned about who was doing the scoring against them. I agree that it was a warrior effort among many warrior efforts for Smith, but I tend to value who wins games, and the coaches seem to agree. That may not be fair to Smith, of course. |
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PeteD Masters Student Posts 557 
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03-13-20 06:06 AM - Post#304514
I thought Choh, Knight and Llewellyn all deserved a first team nod over Kirkwood. Smith on the 2nd team is right. Sorry, but hard to justify putting a guy on the 1st team when his team goes 1-13. He had chances to give his team a couple more wins, but didn’t get it done. Brandon Anderson not even getting HM is shocking. |
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Chet Forte Postdoc Posts 2974 |
03-14-20 07:50 AM - Post#304595
Playing an average of 39 minutes a night sometimes means you have nothing left in crunch time. But I still believe that leading the league in scoring by 6 PPG, leading in steals, second in assists, and doing all of this despite being double and triple teamed and routinely mugged in the paint is dispositive —he deserved not only first team but a unanimous vote.
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internetter Postdoc Posts 3400 |
03-18-20 03:17 PM - Post#304814
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/ univers...
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3586 |
03-18-20 10:11 PM - Post#304827
Phil Martelli (former St Joes Coach) is on the staff at Michigan. He and Donahue are close and likely have talked about Smith and Aiken. |
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W. PhD Student Posts 1173 |
03-18-20 10:27 PM - Post#304829
Would be pretty damn funny to see Smith and Aiken playing together for Michigan. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
03-18-20 10:49 PM - Post#304831
With Towns? Gotta think home town Ohio State has the inside track on Seth, although I read Duke is coming on down the stretch. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
03-18-20 11:21 PM - Post#304832
And Howard’s son played at Brown against both guys. |
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Billy Hoyle Freshman Posts 82 |
03-19-20 12:24 PM - Post#304864
And Howard’s son played at Brown against both guys. That probably isn't much help, Howard had children with multiple women. The son at Brown didn't grow up with his dad. We'll see.
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
03-19-20 01:06 PM - Post#304875
Didn’t Juwan show up at some of Joshua’s games, though? He may not have grown up with him, but it’s not like Donahue grew up with Martelli, either. |
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Old Bear Postdoc Posts 3998 |
03-19-20 01:52 PM - Post#304886
I think he came to one when the Heat were in Boston. I doubt that their schedules coincided very often. |
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PennFan10 Postdoc Posts 3586 |
04-10-20 12:13 PM - Post#306105
Michigan it is: https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1 248641647... |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
04-10-20 05:02 PM - Post#306121
Guess we'll finally get to see Mike and Seth on the court at the same time! Bryce vs Mike would have been interesting as well. |
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Columbia 37P6 Postdoc Posts 2180 |
04-10-20 09:16 PM - Post#306124
Not easy to lose one senior to Duke and another senior to Michigan, but Coach Engles accomplished that feat off a 1-13 season. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2140 |
04-11-20 01:51 AM - Post#306127
Not easy to lose one senior to Duke and another senior to Michigan, but Coach Engles accomplished that feat off a 1-13 season. If they'd both played, there's a good chance CU wouldn't have been 1-13. |
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Billy Hoyle Freshman Posts 82 |
04-14-20 08:58 PM - Post#306238
Not easy to lose one senior to Duke and another senior to Michigan, but Coach Engles accomplished that feat off a 1-13 season. If they'd both played, there's a good chance CU wouldn't have been 1-13. you and your facts...
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Chet Forte Postdoc Posts 2974 |
04-16-20 06:10 PM - Post#306289
Tape, Smith and Stefanini would have been the best team in the league if all three would have played up to their potential.
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Chet Forte Postdoc Posts 2974 |
04-16-20 06:10 PM - Post#306290
Meant best threesome in the league.
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mrjames Professor Posts 6062 |
04-16-20 07:06 PM - Post#306291
Those three are very, very good players, but I’m not sure they were the best top three in the league even among those that played (Swain, Bruner, Atkinson) and certainly weren’t among the top three that could have played (Aiken, Towns, Lewis/Kirkwood). General point is well taken, though (as the grad offers have shown). |
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Old Bear Postdoc Posts 3998 |
04-16-20 07:27 PM - Post#306292
Cambridge, Choh and Anderson. I'm sure Penn might have answer too. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2140 |
04-16-20 08:07 PM - Post#306293
Cambridge, Choh and Anderson. I'm sure Penn might have answer too. Brodeur, a fully healthy Betley and a fully healthy Wang. |
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HARVARDDADGRAD Postdoc Posts 2692 |
04-16-20 10:42 PM - Post#306296
Had everyone been healthy, this would have been a great year. Of course, with Harvard a possible top 50 team and Columbia& Penn possible top 100 teams, and of course Yale, the truncated ending to the season would have been all the more tragic. In my estimation, a team of Ivy grad transfers would likely destroy next season’s all Ivy squad. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6413 |
04-17-20 12:24 AM - Post#306298
Yes, I’d even sub Goodman for Wang. May have just been a matchup thing, but Goodman was the better player going head to head with Smith. I’d take Princeton’s top 3 (Llewelyn, Aririgozuh, Schweiger) over Columbia’s guys as well. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2140 |
04-17-20 06:12 AM - Post#306301
Yes, I’d even sub Goodman for Wang. May have just been a matchup thing, but Goodman was the better player going head to head with Smith. I’d take Princeton’s top 3 (Llewelyn, Aririgozuh, Schweiger) over Columbia’s guys as well. SG, I thought about whether or not to give Goodman the nod there, too. I was at the breakout game at CU where Dev hounded Smith into a rough night while dropping 23 points of his own. I went with Wang because his combination of size and skill is a game changer when he's healthy. |
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