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| Username | Post: Steve Donahue Q+A |
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jmverlin Junior Posts 218 |
04-11-23 12:18 PM - Post#355707
Hey all -- Spoke with Steve Donahue a couple weeks ago about the 2022-23 season and the offseason/season to come. Lots in here: https://www.cityofbasketballlove.com/news_article/... Thanks for reading, as always! - Josh PS CoBL is in need of some pretty significant fundrasing, and it's an area I'm pretty terrible at. If anybody has a business that would like to advertise with us, or would like to be one of our Gold Level donors ($1200/annually), please let me know! |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3619 
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04-11-23 04:53 PM - Post#355715
Notable edit: (Ed. Note: Gus Larson entered the transfer portal on April 11, 2023) Seems to be confirmed by Verbal Commits. Interesting considering there is specific mention of how undergraduate Ivy kids have not been transferring in the article. Considering the need for more depth in the post next year, wonder what is going on there. I know some folks were high on his potential here (I didn't personally see enough to have an opinion). |
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Stuart Suss PhD Student Posts 1439 |
04-11-23 05:38 PM - Post#355718
Josh Verlin has updated the transcript of his fine Q and A session to include a Jordan Dingle NBA question and Steve's reply. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6415 |
04-11-23 05:46 PM - Post#355719
Yes, certainly seems like there is/was an opportunity for Larson here. And a hole to fill if he transfers, just in terms of numbers in the frontcourt. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2144 |
04-11-23 07:01 PM - Post#355720
Yes, certainly seems like there is/was an opportunity for Larson here. And a hole to fill if he transfers, just in terms of numbers in the frontcourt. I saw Larson in the Iona game this past season, and the thing that stuck with me was that he didn't seem to have the physical strength to be a post player. He struggled to avoid being pushed off his spot. As the season progressed, he wasn't able to break into the rotation. I don't see how he helps another team unless he can add enough bulk to make it harder for opponents to push him around. |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3619
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04-11-23 09:52 PM - Post#355723
Yeah I had a similar impression in the small amount of time I saw him play. He seemed to me to be one of those big kids who played smaller than his size (not in a good way). Don't think a big loss per se, but interior depth is a big issue (no pun intended). Reading it again. Coach Donahue's commentary on Holland was a bit odd. Sort of complimentary, sort of not. I think Holland will need to play a big role next year if we are to have any chance at being as good as we hope. |
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weinhauers_ghost Postdoc Posts 2144 |
04-12-23 12:02 AM - Post#355725
I think Holland has a lot of potential as well. If he can figure out the defensive end, he could take the role Monroe had, but with expanded offense. It may take a while for him to settle into the playmaking aspect. |
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pennsive Junior Posts 200 |
04-12-23 12:15 PM - Post#355726
Eddie Holland can be a critical part of our success next year without playing the way Lucas Monroe did. His shooting dwarfs what Lucas brought to the court, and he can share the 3 position with George Smith, providing that Eddie is also effective with driving to the hoop and rebounding aggressively. I am looking forward to watching him grow into that role. As for Gus Larson, I, too, was at the Iona game. From my perspective, Larson ran and jumped well, and, were he slotted at the 4 along with Max Martz, he could play valuable minutes and be a big help, providing he could hit a jumper from the corner and drive to the hoop on occasion. Whether he, if he doesn't transfer, or our 6'8" incoming freshman whose video shows he can shoot and in an interview said he was recruited eventually to fill a role that Brodeur had, take hold of important minutes at the 4 position, it would allow us to play sometimes with two bigs in the manner that Princeton did successfully this year. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8338 
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04-12-23 12:38 PM - Post#355727
Larson maybe 7'+, but definitely played smaller from what little I saw of him. Let's just say MLL would win the majority of tip-offs and rebounds from him. OTOH, he seemed pretty skilled for someone that big and I was convinced at the time he would fill out some, much the way Martz (among others) did over 4 years. I hope he stays, but they appear to have other options at the 4/5. Like everyone else, I hope and expect Holland develops in away that gets him some serious PT, but SD clearly sees him as a work in progress. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32906 |
04-12-23 01:34 PM - Post#355728
I think both of you are leaving out Chris Ubochi, who comes out of Mater Dei in Santa Ana, a major high school power, was a major defensive player there and in AAU ball and seems to me to be just what we need in the middle---as I understand it, he didn't play last year because of academic issues in high school, not because he was not playing well. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8338
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04-12-23 02:13 PM - Post#355729
I had not forgotten about him. He was one of the "other options" I was referring to. |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1904 |
04-12-23 05:06 PM - Post#355730
Larson was always going to take time to develop. It didn't seem possible that he would go from a bench player in high school to impact player in college immediately, especially with his build. I don't think there are too many players at Penn who have done that in the past. Maybe Geoff Owens? DNH comes to mind, though he played more than Larson in his early years. Some of these guys improved an awful lot, though. Anyone have any perspectives on what it is that Eddie Holland needs to work on? What training plan would you give him? I didn't really see enough of him to know. He always looked really promising to me, but I often get disappointed by the playing time that some of our more athletic forwards get. |
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Streamers Professor Posts 8338
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04-12-23 06:14 PM - Post#355732
Larson was always going to take time to develop. It didn't seem possible that he would go from a bench player in high school to impact player in college immediately, especially with his build. I don't think there are too many players at Penn who have done that in the past. Maybe Geoff Owens? DNH comes to mind, though he played more than Larson in his early years. Some of these guys improved an awful lot, though. Anyone have any perspectives on what it is that Eddie Holland needs to work on? What training plan would you give him? I didn't really see enough of him to know. He always looked really promising to me, but I often get disappointed by the playing time that some of our more athletic forwards get. No question Larson was profiled as a project coming in and that is consistent with what (little) we have seen of him, including some of the improvements. As for Holland, there’s been lots of speculation as to his development priorities here. No sense in my adding to it even if I thought I had any insights which I don’t. Hard to miss the potential there though. |
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CM Masters Student Posts 437 |
04-13-23 09:48 AM - Post#355737
I saw Ubochi play in the Red/Blue game last fall and to call him raw would be a major understatement. With a good development program he could for sure make an impact since his physical gifts are self-evident. But he looked a good distance from being a rotation player at that level. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32906 |
04-13-23 09:55 AM - Post#355738
I hear you, but I also know that the Red and Blue scrimmage is far from an adequate game(s) to come to much of a conclusion about anything. Again, he came from a very high level of high school competition and was much awarded for his defense. Sound to me like MLL in that regard....so I think we'll see him in a similar role next year, although what the effect of a year away from competition will do is unknown. |
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CM Masters Student Posts 437 |
04-13-23 10:01 AM - Post#355739
I hear you in drawing conclusions from Red/Blue, but since we didn't see him play other than that it seems like all we have to go on. He's much more physical than MLL but did not seem to have the refined shot blocking nor the sense of his body in space (aka, foul magnet). |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6415 |
04-13-23 01:48 PM - Post#355746
On the plus side, I would have described Princeton’s Kellman the same way a couple of years ago, and he turned into a pretty good player on both ends. That said, my way too early prediction is that Spinoso and Gerhart are our centers next year (unless we get a transfer, which seems like a reasonable possibility). We’ll probably occasionally play small with Martz and Laz (or Holland) together under certain circumstances. But I would strongly prefer not to have to play small — as you saw with Brown this past year, you can get the jump on teams with the small lineup as a change of pace, but once teams see it and can prepare for it, it gets tough to pull off. We absolutely need somebody to fill the MLL role, and then we need somebody to fill the Mosh role of being there if Spinoso or the other big get hurt. So we’ll need Gerhart and Ubochi ready to contribute. |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3619
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04-13-23 03:24 PM - Post#355749
I hear you, but I also know that the Red and Blue scrimmage is far from an adequate game(s) to come to much of a conclusion about anything. Again, he came from a very high level of high school competition and was much awarded for his defense. Sound to me like MLL in that regard....so I think we'll see him in a similar role next year, although what the effect of a year away from competition will do is unknown. I hope he develops for sure, but just to be clear you are overestimating his pedigree before Penn. He was extremely raw in HS and didn't get to Mater Dei until he was a junior. Subsequently he did a prep year at a school you've never heard of (me neither which is why I can't remember the name) for further development. It is understandable since he only really started playing basketball when he got to the US 5 years ago. We brought him in as a recruit way late and he had no real other offers reported publicly. |
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Mike Porter Postdoc Posts 3619
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04-13-23 03:29 PM - Post#355750
On the plus side, I would have described Princeton’s Kellman the same way a couple of years ago, and he turned into a pretty good player on both ends. That said, my way too early prediction is that Spinoso and Gerhart are our centers next year (unless we get a transfer, which seems like a reasonable possibility). We’ll probably occasionally play small with Martz and Laz (or Holland) together under certain circumstances. But I would strongly prefer not to have to play small — as you saw with Brown this past year, you can get the jump on teams with the small lineup as a change of pace, but once teams see it and can prepare for it, it gets tough to pull off. We absolutely need somebody to fill the MLL role, and then we need somebody to fill the Mosh role of being there if Spinoso or the other big get hurt. So we’ll need Gerhart and Ubochi ready to contribute. Again, hope Ubochi really evolves into a great player for us, and I like the idea of taking a flier on a kid like this. That said, Kellman had offers to places like Drexel, Bucknell, Colgate, etc. when he picked Princeton and he didn't really break out until he was a senior. Just to set expectation levels, I tend to doubt much help will come here for next year. Maybe as a junior/senior if development comes. Would love to be wrong of course. Really hoping for a post player transfer to give us a better chance... |
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Penndemonium PhD Student Posts 1904 |
04-14-23 11:41 AM - Post#355756
It's just really hard for me to believe this guy can't help us more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA-9yofVamQ I don't want to nitpick Donahue when he sees things we don't, but I do have one observation. Coaches often have issues with players with regards to decision-making, hustle, focus, and/or mistakes. Undoubtedly some players have different playing maturity and it does make a difference. What team coaches sometime miss is that some of those players are curable with a mix of individualized training on decision paths and learning the right reactions, sports pschology, and such. If you saw what Steph Curry did in his training to develop on all of these things - he has literally mapped out the response to each situation based on how far his defenders are, where they are in position to him, and what direction they are facing, whether there is a double team, and more. I'm not saying any of these are the particular concern for Ed Holland - I'm only extrapolating from the article - I have no idea. to the coaching staff, please take a look whether its preparation, processing speed, eyesight, recognition, decision trees, anxiety, or anything else that will help this young man reach his potential. He has too much ability to waste on our bench. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32906 |
04-14-23 11:42 AM - Post#355757
There is no way he is on the bench next year. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6415 |
04-14-23 02:23 PM - Post#355760
While I think there is plenty of opportunity for Holland to step up and take minutes, I don’t think it is anywhere close to a sure thing. Smith already was playing Monroe’s role when he was off the floor. So I assume we will see Smith step into a starting role. So the question becomes who fills Smith’s role as the first guard off the bench. That combo of rebounding, ball handling and defense is a little hard to find, and maybe I am getting too stuck in the idea that we need somebody to do what Monroe and Smith do (but Williams was doing a lot of the same things the year before). Laz is the best rebounder of the incumbents. McMullen is probably the best ball handler. Nobody in the group has really stuck out defensively to my eye, but the assignments and rotations suggest the staff views McMullen as ahead on that end. So I could see the top 8 becoming a top 7 with Laz both backing up Martz and serving as the 4th guard, or McMullen as 4th guard. And that’s before we even get to Thrower, who might have the most offensive potential of the group. I also think all 3 freshman perimeter players will be in the mix, and it sounds like Perkins in particular may be a fit. I am intrigued by Holland just like everyone else, and I am very hopeful he gets lots of time and excels. But I can see a lot of other scenarios too. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32906 |
04-14-23 04:01 PM - Post#355761
I think we saw Laz get exposed last year. Unless he develops a killer 3 point shot this off-season, I don't see him getting a lot of minutes. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6415 |
04-14-23 05:52 PM - Post#355762
I guess I have trouble seeing how he was exposed. He had the highest ORAT on the team, and was second to Dingle in WS/40. All small sample size of course, but it seems strange that you would look at two kids who played 150-200 minutes last year and say the one with much better rate stats was exposed. |
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penn nation Professor Posts 21307 |
04-14-23 06:31 PM - Post#355764
Thrower seems very steady to me as a floor leader. I would trust him with bringing the ball up and knowing what to do with it. |
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palestra38 Professor Posts 32906 |
04-15-23 03:41 PM - Post#355769
As the season went on, he was beaten pretty regularly on defense, did not shoot 3s well and shot FTs poorly. He's just not a guy who will help us win if he gets more minutes. We need to do better. As I said, if he somehow develops a 40% 3 point shot, I would change my mind. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6415 |
04-15-23 11:04 PM - Post#355776
I don’t disagree on the defense, although that was an issue for all of the candidates. We had a drop off defensively whenever we got beyond our top 7 last year. I don’t think the minutes were enough to know who among them can step up on that end, though the decisions re playing time and assignments may provide some clues. On Laz’s shooting, I don’t think either 3 pointers or foul shooting are an issue for him. His overall shooting efficiency was among the best on the team. With more run, I assume his ridiculously good 2 point shooting goes down and the other two go up. But admittedly the sample size is small for all these guys. I don’t conclude that Laz can’t shoot 3s or free throws any more than I conclude that Holland can’t shoot 2s. Anyway, my point isn’t that Laz should be playing over Holland or anyone else. I’m saying that both the numbers and the playing time decisions the last two years suggest that there are a lot of possible scenarios here. There are 5 guys who obviously will play. I think there are lots of different ways to go after that, and I don’t think whether or not we win depends on what direction we go with those spots. How far we go will depend mainly on how far Dingle can take us and how much Spinoso develops. |
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pennsive Junior Posts 200 |
04-16-23 11:23 AM - Post#355780
Our top players can take us to the Ivy playoffs, but development of our next five players is the key to winning the tougher games during the season and in a two game playoff against the likes of Princeton and Yale. Without those key reserves, we will, as we have done for too many years, put up a good fight, take leads, and wear down in crunch time. The coaches must let those players play important minutes in both the first and second half of each game during the season so that they have confidence and fit neatly and can spark the team when needed in games where we really need them.. It is on the coaches as much as the players to build the team for end of game and end of season success. |
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SomeGuy Professor Posts 6415 |
04-16-23 11:42 AM - Post#355781
I see that a little differently. Princeton wasn’t playing any more guys than we were, and they were relying on their stars just like we were. In other words, there wasn’t anything different about the way our opponents were using or developing their depth. Could we have developed different backups? Yes. As we are arguing here, we could have developed a different 8th and 9th guys, instead of Laz and Charles in those spots. But I think that is where the minutes would have been taken from, not from our top 7. All of these guys can play. There are lots of combos we could win with in those bench spots. |
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