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Username Post: Lee declares for draft
umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts 476
umbrellaman
04-05-24 07:17 PM - Post#367068    

https://x.com/wojespn/status/177638 6647157862465?s...

This is nuts. He’s not physically ready for the NBA. He needs to bulk up not to wear down in division I.
TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts 1893
04-05-24 07:26 PM - Post#367069    

I agree completely, Umbrellaman. He is a great talent but he faded at the end of the season, which I assume was due to being worn down (and extended illness, which could be related to the first issue).

I really, really hope that he stays at Princeton two more years, bulks up, helps take the Tigers to another level and then tries for the NBA. I assume there is a strategy here. Does this help him gain exposure to pull off an endorsement deal?


TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts 1893
04-05-24 07:36 PM - Post#367070    

According to Kyle Franko, Xaivian has until June 16 to decide whether to return to school or stay in the draft.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
04-05-24 07:51 PM - Post#367071    

  • TigerFan Said:
I assume there is a strategy here. Does this help him gain exposure to pull off an endorsement deal?



That's part of it. An announcement from Woj himself tells me this is a (great) PR move. I also noticed he signed with Tosan's agent, George Langberg. But it's mostly about meeting with NBA teams and getting feedback.

On paper, this is the right move for Xaivian - get NBA feedback on what he needs to work on for this season (defense? midrange? physique?), then ride a great March 2025 to a 1st round pick in June 2025.

I'm 99% sure he'll return for his junior year, but to me, this confirms he's probably gone after that, which I speculated earlier in the year, but still... wow.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
04-05-24 07:52 PM - Post#367072    

To help settle anyone's stomach...

https://twitter.com/NJHoopsHaven/status/1 776388384...

  • Quote:
Jerry Carino @NJHoopsHaven
This was expected. High likelihood Lee will be back at Old Nassau next season.



While I won't be 100% at ease until he's officially back, I think it's amazing that an Ivy soph is getting this kind of attention. It's the kind of thing that appeals to recruits who think they can't go to NBA from the Ivy.
umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts 476
umbrellaman
04-05-24 09:20 PM - Post#367073    

Armond Hill came back to get his degree after his NBA career - although he also made it to his senior season.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
04-05-24 10:45 PM - Post#367076    

Breathing yet another sigh of relief:

https://www.dailyprincetonian.com/article/2024/04/...

  • Quote:
“I think it was the smart thing to do,” Lee told The Daily Princetonian in an interview. “Not necessarily leaving for the NBA, but testing the waters and seeing where I’m at against that level of competition … That is ultimately how I can get better and set myself up for the future.”



  • Quote:
“That was the important part of it [maintaining my eligibility],” Lee added. “I’m entering this process … open-minded and I have intentions of coming back to school for sure."



Again, it seems he's doing the common move of declaring for the draft for the exposure and feedback. I think Lee can be a 1st round pick if he has a "March Moment" next season and this is a great opportunity to see what NBA teams think he needs to work on most.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4923
04-06-24 04:35 PM - Post#367084    

Yep. Not like entering the transfer portal.
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts 1914
04-17-24 02:13 AM - Post#367499    

I *think* that you can only enter and withdraw once from the NBA draft, so he won't be able to do this move again between his junior and senior season.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
04-17-24 04:38 PM - Post#367548    

According to Wikipedia, you can withdraw twice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eligibility_for_ the_...

That said, I expect Lee to stay in the draft after next season. It's clear that NBA teams have serious interest - he's not just a fringe prospect.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3593
04-19-24 10:11 AM - Post#367605    

How is it "clear"? Is there anything in the public record from NBA evaluators that says he is a clear prospect? Isn't that why he declared? To find out their opinions? I have no opinion here, just wondering if I am missing some press about this.
HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts 2708
04-19-24 10:36 AM - Post#367608    

I recall reports of NBA scouts at Princeton Men's games this season. Who else could they have been scouting?
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
04-19-24 02:15 PM - Post#367610    

Yep, after his dazzling non-conf, many NBA scouts started attending Lee's Ivy games. First one on record was his 33p/8r/7a game against Harvard (probably scouted Mack too). More followed. Lots of reports like this:

https://twitter.com/Richard37215662/statu s/1744382...

  • Quote:
9 NBA scouts in to see him Saturday. 20 expected at Columbia.


https://twitter.com/_borisberic/status/17 564375172...
https://twitter.com/Richard37215662/statu s/1761396...
https://twitter.com/kj_franko/status/1776 388671865...

Also, an Ivy League sophomore doesn't sign with an agent and declare for the draft unless he's already heard from NBA teams.
Bryan
Junior
Posts 237
04-30-24 02:23 PM - Post#367908    

Sam Vecenie of The Athletic wrote an article with his 2024 NBA Draft Big Board on April 19th. Xaivian was #63 on his list.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
04-30-24 03:26 PM - Post#367911    

Sounds about right. This site has him as a 2nd rounder this year and the 9th ranked PG in 2025.

https://nbadraftroom.com/xaivian-lee/

Seems like the best play for Xaivian would be coming back for one more season and shining in March. He could move himself into the 1st round with a monster junior year.

But it's certainly smart to introduce himself to NBA teams early on. Do a bunch of workouts, maybe earn a Combine invite.
ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts 341
04-30-24 05:02 PM - Post#367916    

I saw every one of his games last season, most in person. He is not ready for the NBA. If his game jumps next year as much as it did this year he will undoubtedly reach first round status. Just not yet.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32993
04-30-24 05:17 PM - Post#367917    

I guess it's time to transfer to St John's---I'm only half saying that in jest. Doing the NBA workouts doesn't only expose him to the NBA scouts, but also to the NIL scouts.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
04-30-24 05:44 PM - Post#367918    

The fact that Lee himself said that he plans on returning tells me he knows he's not ready. But it can't hurt to get feedback from NBA teams on what he needs to work on.

Lots of players declare for the draft and then withdraw. It's nice to know where you stand with NBA teams -- are you just another fringe prospect? Or do they honestly think you're 1st round material?
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3593
04-30-24 06:15 PM - Post#367920    

280+ have officially declared for early entry to the NBA draft (not including graduating seniors) that features 60 picks.


HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts 2708
04-30-24 06:33 PM - Post#367921    

Better chance to be drafted than to apply to most Ivies for a spot in freshman class!
iabhoops88
Sophomore
Posts 108
04-30-24 10:49 PM - Post#367926    

I read somewhere that it is problematic for international students to participate in NIL deals unless all the work and payment is done in their home country.
CM
Masters Student
Posts 442
05-01-24 06:06 AM - Post#367929    

International students are on student visas and if they were to get paid in NIL they'd need work visas, which are much harder to get.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
05-04-24 12:27 PM - Post#368118    

Lee makes the G-League Elite Camp, but not (yet) the NBA Draft Combine:

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1 786785236...

Tosan got the same treatment but earned a Combine invite after his Elite Camp showing. Xaivian stated his intent to return barring a crazy offer, so I think it's all but certain now that he's coming back. Being a potential late 2nd rounder isn't worth leaving Princeton early.

It'll still be a great experience to meet with NBA teams and play against other top players. But the best way to boost that draft stock is with a monster junior year and NCAA tourney run. It would be amazing to see Lee stay for his senior year too, but I'm under no illusions in that department.
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2822
05-04-24 05:26 PM - Post#368124    

Every time I see that there is a new post on this topic, I prepare myself for the worst. Please, Xavian. Another year.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
05-11-24 01:20 PM - Post#368296    

Live feed of Day 1 Elite Camp scrimmages:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpOpjL8UaTA

Lee is playing in the first game (#34 in black). In his first stint, he made 1-2 threes, got a steal, and got a couple more defensive stops. Looked very poised.

I'll probably watch the rest later. The G League channel eventually posts the entire video of scrimmages when it's over.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
05-11-24 03:36 PM - Post#368297    

Lee had a lot of great passes (6 assists) and some nice defensive plays (knocked 3-4 balls loose). Teammates didn't always finish but he was a true PG (+17). A couple of highlights:

https://twitter.com/HoopIntelllect/status /17893551...
https://twitter.com/libaanstar1/status/17 893430097...

Lee barely shot (1-3, 5pts) with Boogie Ellis filling it up, but he was the floor general for his team in victory. He even got a postgame shoutout from his coach (00:30 mark):

https://twitter.com/nbagleague/status/178 937635122...

  • Quote:
"Our guards set the tone. Boogie Ellis out of USC and Lee from Princeton... like I said set the tone, running the offense."



I think Xaivian did well to show his all-around game on Day 1. Looking forward to him scoring a bit more tomorrow.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
05-11-24 09:20 PM - Post#368298    

According to DraftExpress, Xaivian also tested well. Out of 45 players...

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C612PU-OIbg/

  • Quote:
Princeton standout 20-year-old sophomore point guard Xaivian Lee had a productive day at G League Elite Camp in Chicago

- 3rd in the pro lane agility drill (10.48 seconds)

- 5th in the shuttle run (3.01 seconds)

- 11th highest maximum vertical (36.5 inches)


1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts 2282
1LotteryPick1969
05-12-24 12:37 PM - Post#368301    

Thanks for posting this. The 45 participants: how good are they? Doubt they are future first rounds picks. Would they be G league level?
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
05-12-24 01:36 PM - Post#368302    

Short answer: pretty much. They'll probably end up in G-League and/or getting a two-way contract.

Long answer: NBA teams submit a list of 75 players they want to see at the NBA Combine. This year, the top 78 vote getters received Combine invites and the next 45 got G-League Elite Camp invites.

So it's possible that a few NBA teams might have an Elite Camp player in first round consideration, but they're definitely seen as a cut below the outright Combine invitees.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
05-12-24 11:24 PM - Post#368306    

https://twitter.com/nbagleague/status/178 985728677...

No Combine invite for Xaivian. There were only 5 invites this year and all were seniors/5th years. That said, I'm sure he impressed NBA teams with his playmaking and athleticism, matching up with guys 2-3 years older than him.

It seems certain now that he's coming back. With a great junior year and an NCAA run, he can play his way into the first round. That Sweet 16 run did wonders for Tosan's stock and Xaivian (and Caden) can do the same with another March moment.

Highlight from today: https://twitter.com/libaanstar1/status/17 897947697...
1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts 2282
1LotteryPick1969
05-13-24 10:15 AM - Post#368315    

For Jeremy Lin, high BAM scores did not translate to getting drafted. I hope things have changed since then.

BTW, I completely misjudged Lin when I saw him play, probably because Maddux was guarding him.

AVERAGE SPEED
Jeremy Lin: 16.66 mph
Derrick Rose: 16.60 mph
John Wall: 16.48 mph
Kyrie Irving: 15.67 mph
START SPEED
Lin: 13.93 mph
Wall: 13.25 mph
Irving: 12.64 mph
For Rose, BAM has only average speed data.
TOP SPEED
Lin: 18.85 mph
Wall: 19.30 mph
Irving: 18.74 mph

HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts 2708
05-13-24 11:14 AM - Post#368317    

I remember seeing Maddux guard Lin at Princeton. Maddux was a great athlete and just too big for Lin to maneuver around.

Same strategy is working for Indiana against the Knicks. Nesmith (6'6") is keeping Brunson from dominating - which is all that is needed with a depleted Knick's squad.

Amaker's early success at Harvard leveraged that strategy with larger defenders like Okolie (a 6'8" guard), Edosomwan and Kyle Casey. Other than Ajogbor, Harvard didn't seem to have impact defenders this year. It's so important, especially when the opposition relies on a particular player to create on offense. Maddux was certainly that weapon for Princeton. Conversely, Dartmouth stole a game against Harvard in 2015 by switching 5'9" Malik Gill to guard Wes Saunders. The quicker Gill prevented Saunders from backing him down and hitting his usual fall away jumper. Saunders made only 2 FG's (to go with 2 3's) and Harvard's offense sputtered, allowing Dartmouth (14-15 on the season) to steal a victory at Lavietes against an eventual 22-8 Harvard squad. That's coaching. This was the Harvard squad that beat Yale in a playoff and went on lose to UNC by 2 points on the back of Saunders (26 points).
ToothlessTiger
Senior
Posts 341
05-13-24 05:26 PM - Post#368328    

This post reminds me of the defensive job Tosan did against Poulakidas in ILT 2yrs ago. Still the best coaching move in a decade to my way of thinking.
SRP
Postdoc
Posts 4923
05-17-24 08:26 PM - Post#368465    

Lee looked less bothered by the defense in these clips than in any IL game he played. NBA teams would be wise to assess him based on his college tape, because athleticism is unlikely to be a limiting factor for him in the sense of being unable to handle casual D by an NBA-level athlete. He can do that easily. What happens when a team is trying to take him out as a threat is the pertinent issue.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
05-27-24 02:32 PM - Post#368766    

Part 2 of the ongoing documentary series on Xaivian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xe_8QWnFtI

00:31 Sounds like Lee couldn't go to the Combine because of exams - a professor wouldn't let him take it another time. This was filmed before the Elite Camp, where he performed well, but I guess he couldn't have accepted an invite anyway.

19:00 [Xaivian on declaring for the draft] "It was supposed to be low-key but everyone made it hella dramatic... I was like, I'm a just get these couple workouts in, get my feedback, see where I'm at, and all of a sudden it's like 'Oh my gosh he's going to the league!' ...It got blown up out of proportion."


mbaprof
Senior
Posts 356
05-27-24 05:27 PM - Post#368767    

I told the Penn alumni owners of several NBA teams that the best thing they could to help Penn basketball would be to draft him this year! Great player
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
05-27-24 06:19 PM - Post#368768    

Haha, that would be diabolical. I bet most NBA teams want to see Lee play one more season in college before putting him on their draft board.

At 50:08, you can see the workouts he had scheduled: Grizzlies, Celtics, Nets, Hornets, Clippers. Maybe he got some more after Elite Camp, but I assume those teams must be the most interested to reach out beforehand.
mbaprof
Senior
Posts 356
05-28-24 02:00 PM - Post#368787    

Defininitely some of those teams on his workout list!
Id love to help him make the league so i dont have to see him two or three times next season!
Seriously i watched some of the documentary and his professor not letting him take final at another time to go to camp is certainly enough reason to transfer..
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2822
05-29-24 07:14 AM - Post#368830    

Uh … Princeton is still in the education business (although I suspect that you are kidding).
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
05-29-24 05:16 PM - Post#368833    

He's officially back! Always expected but kept us waiting till deadline day.

https://x.com/DraftExpress/status/1 795923822534615...

I suspect he had interest, but only late 2nd round or a two-way contract. With another year of improvement - and a March Madness run - Lee could slip into the 1st round.

Lee, Pierce, Davis, Peters, Austin... wowzah. If we get even half-decent play at center from Huggins/Happy/Byriel, this may be an all-time Tiger team.
LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts 495
05-29-24 06:05 PM - Post#368834    

We have a great deal of talent, but not much size or
depth. I think we will miss Scott. Need Hicke and some
freshmen to step up. Also, hoping Sangster returns.


jeromelh
Junior
Posts 218
05-29-24 08:04 PM - Post#368836    

Also, don't forget about Devin Austin. He's 6'6
"
"
TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts 1893
05-29-24 08:32 PM - Post#368840    

Add in a very good group of frosh and 24-25 could be very special.
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts 2822
05-30-24 06:17 AM - Post#368843    

YES!!! Welcome home, Xavian. Tiger on.
palestra38
Professor
Posts 32993
05-30-24 07:50 AM - Post#368845    

I seem to recall you guys saying much the same thing before 2004-05.
mbaprof
Senior
Posts 356
05-30-24 01:39 PM - Post#368874    

Thats what i heard from teams that worked him out. Not sure how much he can improve in a weakened ivy league (due to transfers out) although maybe an impressive ncaa run moves him up.

Seriously though ivies need to step up their game to keep players in the programs. Our guy Tyler Perkins specifically called out food at Villanova as one of his reasons for transfer, Xavian talks about the costs of food in Princeton (and much of the documentary is about eating out. Ive heard directly from my cousin who is star female athlete about food quality and availability when you hitting the weight room early am and then practicing after classes. And of course the bus rides
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
05-30-24 02:35 PM - Post#368878    

Maybe student-athletes can get a "supplementary food stipend" since they're working out at all hours. It's ridiculous that they have to worry about something so basic.

Even in a weak Ivy, I think Xaivian would benefit greatly from another year of conditioning. Lee getting stomach flu was a big factor in the ILT/NIT losses, but even before that, he looked tired down the stretch. His 3pt and FT %s dipped sharply in the final weeks.

Lee could also use more "showcase" games against Power conference opponents, especially in the NCAA tournament. Tosan's stock skyrocketed after the Sweet 16 run. Xaivian has a chance to do the same.
LocalTiger
Masters Student
Posts 495
05-31-24 07:18 AM - Post#368906    

In response to Palestra 38:

We are all sometimes guilty of irrational exuberance.
I remember reading a lot about Penn having "top of the cycle"
talent in seasons that ended up in the middle of the League.
They have to play the games. But I am looking forward to this season.
Are you? .

palestra38
Professor
Posts 32993
05-31-24 07:45 AM - Post#368908    

Let's see how things shake out. I'm still not sure. But having lost 11 in a row to you guys, I am unlikely to be exuberant, much less irrationally so.
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts 3692
05-31-24 04:48 PM - Post#368932    

Great article about Lee and Pierce coming back:

https://www.app.com/story/sports/college/ 2024/05/3...

  • Quote:
This week, as the clock ticked down toward the deadline to withdraw and stay in college, “I was considering a couple of two-ways,” Lee said. “The decision, it was a lot closer than I anticipated.”



  • Quote:
“I want to come back to school and bet on myself,” Lee said. “Physically I want to give myself another year, so when I do make that jump I’ll give myself the best shot to stick.



  • Quote:
Henderson had a couple of chips in his corner. Princeton sent two players to the NBA in the past five years: guard Devin Cannady and forward Tosan Evbuomwan. The Tigers made the NCAA Tournament’s Sweet 16 in 2023, providing a launch pad for Evbuomwan’s entry into the league and a you-can-do-it-here roadmap. And Pierce has come into his own as a leader who expressed a strong desire to keep the band together for a big run next winter.


1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts 2282
1LotteryPick1969
06-01-24 10:10 AM - Post#368948    

Very interesting.

1. Surprised to hear that Lee received two-way offers.

2. Unless Lee is injured, likely next year is his last at Princeton.

3. If Pierce has another big year, does he depart for a fourth year elsewhere?

These seismic changes in my favorite college sport are difficult to bear. If only the changes could have waited another ten years, when I will likely no longer be on the planet.
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts 3593
06-03-24 02:06 PM - Post#368977    

Pierce has a brother who played at W&M and then transferred to North Carolina, so it's in the family (his other brother is a WR for the NFL Colts). Though I would be shocked if he went anywhere before getting a Princeton degree. Is he taking summer school? If so, he may be trying to do the Boudreaux route.



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