gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3677
Reg: 02-06-10
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02-06-10 01:41 AM - Post#75110
This is the thread to talk about next year's incoming freshmen!
# Tom Noonan F 6-7 Philadelphia PA Penn Charter HS
# Ben Hazel G 6-4 Wheaton MD Good Counsel HS
# Chris Clement G 6-1 Round Rock TX Stony Point HS
# Daniel Edwards C 6-9 Highland Park TX HS
# T.J. Bray G 6-3 Waukesha WI Catholic Memorial HS
Of these announced verbal commits, I think I'm most excited about Chris Clement. We'll need a floor general and ball handler to replace Schroeder (Davis can play some point, but he's more of a scorer than an enabler). If you haven't seen this YouTube compilation, check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NapMlFaTOSo
I get the feeling Clement is a big fish in a small pond, but DAMN -- when's the last time we had a player that could move like that? And those are just sophomore and junior year highlights...
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Stripes
Freshman
Posts: 62
Loc: Boston
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: 2010 Recruits
02-06-10 10:57 AM - Post#75116
In response to gokinsmen
Of these announced verbal commits, I think I'm most excited about Chris Clement. We'll need a floor general and ball handler to replace Schroeder (Davis can play some point, but he's more of a scorer than an enabler). If you haven't seen this YouTube compilation, check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NapMlFaTOSo
Thanks for posting the link. He does look quick, but he'll need to develop a bit more of a right hand, I think. Otherwise D-I defenders will take away his left (just like Maddox took away Lin's right last night). Also, just one defensive highlight in that package. He'll need to play stout D to be in the Tigers' rotation.
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Penn94
PhD Student
Posts: 1461
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-06-10 11:01 AM - Post#75117
In response to Stripes
gokinsmen......you're not the most excited about a center who is from the same high school as Chris Young?
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Brian Martin
Masters Student
Posts: 963
Loc: Washington, DC
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-06-10 01:07 PM - Post#75134
In response to Penn94
Looks like a good class.
I haven't seen Hazel play, but most players from the WCAC have shown up ready to play as freshmen. This year, the Catholic league is stacked with elite guards. He is going up against high-major recruits every night and seems to be holding his own.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2277
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-06-10 02:07 PM - Post#75143
In response to Brian Martin
Isn't there a pivot player at Lawrenceville who hasn't committed yet?
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3677
Reg: 02-06-10
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2010 Recruits
02-06-10 05:36 PM - Post#75165
In response to Penn94
gokinsmen......you're not the most excited about a center who is from the same high school as Chris Young?
Tempting, but I haven't seen any footage of him. Or even any real scouting reports. Seeing Hummer in action convinced me that he could be a major impact player. It's one thing to rack up stats and even play in a competitive league. It's another to have the game to succeed at the next level.
Watching those Chris Clement highlights gives me the same sort chills. He's not playing against WCAC-level teams, but you can't fake that quickness and dribble control.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3677
Reg: 02-06-10
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Re: 2010 Recruits
02-06-10 05:50 PM - Post#75167
In response to Stripes
Thanks for posting the link. He does look quick, but he'll need to develop a bit more of a right hand, I think. Otherwise D-I defenders will take away his left (just like Maddox took away Lin's right last night). Also, just one defensive highlight in that package. He'll need to play stout D to be in the Tigers' rotation.
I agree with your assessments. I do think Princeton's top priority next year at PG will be running the floor...and he can do that. The defense should come with practice and experience (he has too much athleticism for it not to). Also, I'm sure Clement has made improvements during senior year.
In a local news feature on Clement, he said that he'd have a chance to start at point next year. So I think Johnson's already grooming him.
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Bryan
Junior
Posts: 233
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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2010 Recruits
02-06-10 06:18 PM - Post#75171
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
The center at Lawrenceville is Mat Piotrowski. A link from ESPN's recruiting page is attached, though it doesn't provide much information.
Bryan
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracke r/...
Edited by Bryan on 02-06-10 06:20 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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puband09
Masters Student
Posts: 782
Reg: 12-19-09
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Re: 2010 Recruits
03-02-10 09:16 PM - Post#77651
In response to Bryan
Clement looks good, but so does TJ Bray. "But" makes it sound like I'm trying to take something away from Clement, but that's not what I mean at all; it's great that we will have two really strong players that can play in the guard position next year.
I haven't seen any footage of Bray (links if you can find any), but he has a similarly high score to Clement in the ESPN recruiting section. An interview I read with his coach, post-commitment, mentioned that Princeton "wants and needs" Bray to play right away. Sounds like Coach J might be considering this kid for Schroeder's replacement too. His coach also says he is ambidextrous doing most things, including shooting under pressure from up to 10 feet. Outside that he is a lefty.
I also have a question about recruiting. The past few years it has seemed like other schools' (thinking Penn, Cornell, and Harvard here) highest scoring recruit on ESPN.com are anywhere from 5-10 points better than our "best" recruit. Is that mostly meaningless because good HS players might not be good college players, and because improvement in college is ultimately more important than anything (see Foote and Lin), or is it because Coach J is forced to recruit more niche, under-the-radar players to fit in the Princeton offense? I would wonder if we were being "out-recruited" except Hummer is unmatched in this year's rookies with the exception of Casey, so a lot of the hype and high scores surrounding other schools' recruiting classes proved fruitless... so far at least. (e.g. I haven't heard too much out of Penn's Sullivan or Harvard's Georgatos, both of which were ranked pretty highly as incoming freshmen.)
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OzQuaker
Sophomore
Posts: 127
Loc: 10,000 miles from the Pal...
Reg: 02-26-09
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03-02-10 09:38 PM - Post#77653
In response to puband09
Sullivan is Penn's no more. However, on the subject of hype and recruit scores, I did read some suggestions around here that he was not as good as advertised.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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2010 Recruits
03-02-10 09:45 PM - Post#77656
In response to puband09
The ratings are mostly for the benefit of the majors. Down at our level the 'grades' are mostly meaningless. Plus grades are typically based on an evaluation during one or two AAU games during the summer before the recruit's Senior year. They don't include anything the recruit may have accomplished their Senior year.
Obviously getting a consensus quality recruit like Hummer matters, but kids of that quality are not the norm.
Your coach does an excellent job recruiting. Princeton has quite a lot of talent right now with more coming in, no matter how ESPN or any other site evaluates them. I would trust Sydney Johnson before anyone ESPN has on their staff.
Here's a link about Tom Noonan making his all-conference team:
http://www.tedsilary.com/2010starBB.htm
Edited by TheLine on 03-02-10 09:50 PM. Reason for edit: evaluation is before Senior year not Junior
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3677
Reg: 02-06-10
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Re: 2010 Recruits
03-02-10 09:47 PM - Post#77657
In response to puband09
The past few years it has seemed like other schools' (thinking Penn, Cornell, and Harvard here) highest scoring recruit on ESPN.com are anywhere from 5-10 points better than our "best" recruit. Is that mostly meaningless because good HS players might not be good college players, and because improvement in college is ultimately more important than anything (see Foote and Lin), or is it because Coach J is forced to recruit more niche, under-the-radar players to fit in the Princeton offense?
Both those explanations sound good to me. I mean, Clement doesn't even have an entry on ESPN's site despite looking like our most gifted recruit. For the most part, those numbers and rankings are pretty arbitrary and functionally useless. And they always favor physically imposing players over basketball IQ and ability to play within a team offense/defense. Will Barrett had a higher score than Hummer even though he's clearly not as college-ready. Probably just because of his size relative to his position.
BTW, Hummer is an interesting case. He was graded at an 86, but that was before he had a monster senior year. It was assumed he was mostly the beneficiary of talented teammates, but that turned out not to be true. One of the reports even said he could be a top 50 or 100 prospect. He was even ESPN's RISE National PotW. Yet his rating stayed the same.
Anyway, I don't put much stock in ratings...esp. for mid-to-low major recruits. That's why I can't get too excited for Bray yet. I gotta see him play first.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1348
Reg: 12-08-04
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03-02-10 11:35 PM - Post#77666
In response to gokinsmen
I think there is lots of very good news here. As noted above, Ben Hazel is considered one of the top shooting guards in the top conference in DC (Hummer's conference). Here's an article of his team playing (national) power DeMatha.
http://dcsportsfan.com/article.aspx?aid=3373
Here's a page of videos:
http://dcsportsfan.com/Sports/Recruiting/pro file.a...
I wouldn't worry about ratings.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3677
Reg: 02-06-10
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2010 Recruits
03-03-10 02:42 AM - Post#77680
In response to sparman
It's going to be great to have a steady catch-and-shoot 3pt shooter (even if that's all he does). Princeton is awfully streaky and missed a ton of open 3s in non-conference.
I'm still confused as to what our center situation will be next year with two bulky 6-9 underclassmen (though Connolly looks more like 6-10) set to succeed Buzcak/Finley. Hummer might play center early on, but is that really a long-term solution? Supposedly, he has a much better mid-range game than we've seen, and I'd also hate to see him get into foul trouble against bigger defenders.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3677
Reg: 02-06-10
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2010 Recruits
03-10-10 01:20 AM - Post#78462
In response to gokinsmen
ESPN updated our recruits section. You guys ready for some nice-sounding but fairly arbitrary numbers?
Daniel Edwards is rated at 84.
Chris Clement is rated at 80.
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracke r/...
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracke r/...
Does anyone have ESPN Insider? I'd like to read the whole capsule if possible...
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puband09
Masters Student
Posts: 782
Reg: 12-19-09
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03-10-10 01:31 AM - Post#78463
In response to gokinsmen
Wow, dude. Good catch! You're on top of your shiz.
84 and 80 are pretty high! Ben Hazel and TJ Bray really look like solid recruits too, even though they aren't ranked. By solid, I mean that I think they will see significant time as rookies. I've read in multiple places that the coaching staff intends to start one or two of the freshmen as point guard immediately.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3677
Reg: 02-06-10
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2010 Recruits
03-10-10 02:06 AM - Post#78464
In response to puband09
Yeah, we obviously don't have a ton of info, but I also like what I've seen of Clement and both sound like they could be immediate impact freshmen.
"Edwards is a hard playing, physical post player who outsmarts more athletic post players..."
"Chris is a natural leader that can get a team organized in late game situations..."
You never know how freshmen will pan out (Hummer was the only "can't-miss" prospect we've had in a while), but those excerpts describe *exactly* what we're looking for next year. Seriously, can anyone with Insider post the rest of the report?
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puband09
Masters Student
Posts: 782
Reg: 12-19-09
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Re: 2010 Recruits
03-10-10 05:16 PM - Post#78523
In response to gokinsmen
ESPN updated our recruits section. You guys ready for some nice-sounding but fairly arbitrary numbers?
More updates today.
TJ Bray is a 79
Ben Hazel is a 76
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracke r/...
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracke r/...
Four of the five recruits have an average arbitrary score of 80, which is significantly higher than last year's average if I recall correctly. That doesn't mean a whole lot, but it does make it sound like we've got some good ones coming in.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4915
Reg: 02-04-06
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03-10-10 09:51 PM - Post#78556
In response to puband09
Freshmen are great, and we certainly could use some help at point guard next year, but the secret of this program is player improvement from year to year. For example, Patrick Saunders apparently (from what El Syd said once) made a huge improvement last summer and showed up for practice in the fall nailing threes. Kareem obviously picked up his play as well.
Besides the high-PT players from this year adding to their games, I think that growth from the low-PT bench players is more likely to have a big impact on the team than even a good freshman. There's a ton to adjust to when you show up at Princeton and it's asking a lot to expect a huge boost from a new guy--although it clearly does happen from time to time.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3677
Reg: 02-06-10
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Re: 2010 Recruits
03-10-10 10:40 PM - Post#78565
In response to puband09
Actually, pub, Bray and Hazel's pages have been up for a while (it says "updated 3/10/10", but that just refers to Princeton's recruit section in general -- as you can see the reports were filed in 2009).
Princeton has a pretty ideal balance of stalwarts (Davis, Mavraides), "improvers" (Hummer, Saunders*, Maddox*), and potential (Barrett, Connolly, our top recruits). Factoring in their 11-3 finish this year, I think that's a major reason they should be the clear (but only slight) favorites next year.
*if only by virtue of playing more often
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