mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-04-10 05:14 PM - Post#85483
6'6 swingman from Liberty (MO) High. Not too much information out there on him from the usual recruiting databases.
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pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts: 2470
Reg: 11-21-04
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Denton Koon To Princeton
08-04-10 05:27 PM - Post#85484
In response to mrjames
Kinda funny:
Saw this on the Cornell basketball blog. It attributes it to scout.com, but I can't find it:
Denton Koon (Liberty HS) Liberty, Missouri 6'7" All State performer attended elite camps and received offers from Yale, Princeton, and Cornell. Other schools of interest include: Bucknell, Davidson, Central Michigan, Missouri, Northern Colorado, Oaklahoma State, Stanford, Rice, and Vermont.
http://www.vtsportsnetwork.com/index.php?option=co...
Also, the few things I could find have him at 6-7, not 6-6.
Edited by pennhoops on 08-04-10 05:28 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3683
Reg: 02-06-10
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Denton Koon To Princeton
08-04-10 07:18 PM - Post#85490
In response to pennhoops
Yeah, a few quick Google searches suggest he's a poor man's Ian Hummer -- a 6-7, versatile post-player who can run and shoot some as well. Only Ivy offers, but with BCS interest. Seems to be a late-bloomer, so he might be a potential steal for an Ivy team.
Solid pickup. Still waiting for Chris Young 2.0, though! BTW, does anyone know how Princeton nabbed Young -- a bigman who might have a been a late-lottery pick had he stayed (certainly a first-rounder)?
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pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts: 2470
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-04-10 08:00 PM - Post#85491
In response to gokinsmen
Wow, that's an ambitious bit of revisionism. I was certainly glad to see him drafted (Pirates?) but to call him a marginal lottery pick is just fiction. There was a lot of discussion at the time about whether or not he was NBA material. I still think he was too bony to play the interior.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3683
Reg: 02-06-10
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08-04-10 09:48 PM - Post#85494
In response to pennhoops
Nobody knows what would have happened, obviously, but I just remember reading article(s) where NBA scouts projected Young as a late-first, early second round pick. And that was just after his sophomore season.
Chris Mihm went seventh. And Young was better than Mihm -- they even matched up at the Maui Invitational that Princeton won in '99.
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pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts: 2470
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-04-10 09:52 PM - Post#85495
In response to gokinsmen
Individual matchups have zero bearing on professional careers. Talk to all the guards Scottie Reynolds outplayed about that. Mihm was a better NBA prospect and he had a terrible (albeit injury-plagued) career. That one game (in Charlotte?) meant zilch.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3683
Reg: 02-06-10
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Denton Koon To Princeton
08-04-10 09:58 PM - Post#85497
In response to pennhoops
Individual matchups have zero bearing on professional careers.
Jeremy Lin?
Anyway, that's just a footnote to my case. Young, I believe, was also an Honorable Mention All-American (like Wittman this year). Not bad for a sophomore on a 2nd place Ivy team.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3782
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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08-05-10 12:36 AM - Post#85499
In response to gokinsmen
I believe Princeton was able to get Chris Young because baseball was his first love, and he wanted very much to work with Princeton's basketball coach. So, Bill Carmody screwed Chris Krug to get a player who only stayed two seasons.
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KenZ
Postdoc
Posts: 2777
Reg: 01-23-06
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Denton Koon To Princeton
08-05-10 08:59 AM - Post#85501
In response to Silver Maple
So, Bill Carmody screwed Chris Krug to get a player who only stayed two seasons.
explain please. i remember Chris Krug's name, but nothing about his career.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2819
Reg: 11-23-04
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08-05-10 09:58 AM - Post#85508
In response to Silver Maple
Screwed Chris Krug? Wow! Is this your reaction, or something you heard from a reliable source? You seem to have a lot of anger issues with Princeton (and your brother?)
Chris was a nice kid, and started for a time along with Chris Young. He had other interests and ample opportunity as a basketball player, both before and after Young left for a baseball career. I noticed that Krug stuck around for graduation, so apparently he didn't feel so screwed that he felt it necessary to go elsewhere.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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08-05-10 11:20 AM - Post#85516
In response to Tiger69
Chris Young had no shot at being a late lottery pick. None. He wasn't actually all that good. A glorified Geoff Owens/Jeff Foote.
Here's what happened. He was good at baseball, he leveraged some rumors that a Princeton GM, Geoff Petrie, thought he had talent in basketball. He used this leverage to hammer Texas (or the Padres, I forget) to get a sweet contract. That's all.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3782
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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08-05-10 11:38 AM - Post#85520
In response to Jeff2sf
I can't agree. Granted, we only saw Chris Young for a couple of seasons, and the fact that the Princeton basketball program was in some turmoil at the time (at least, I seem to remember it that way) and that he was lettering in two sports may have somewhat compromised his performance on the court, but I remember him as having excellent court vision, passing skills, low post moves, high-post skills, defensive footwork, a talent for drawing fouls, FT shooting ability, 3-point range and court leadership. Where, if at all, he would have gone in the draft I don't wish to speculate, but I think he was a very good basketball player indeed. I was sorry he didn't pick Penn (at least until he bolted after his sophomore year).
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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08-05-10 11:50 AM - Post#85522
In response to Silver Maple
Bah, 14 and 6 for a 6'11 guy in the ivies is nothing to write home about.
I think this is simple romanticizing about players because, of course, no one can prove them wrong. Tom Glavine was drafted by the Kings, he would have been an HOF hockey player. Ricky Williams would have been an all star if only he had devoted his talents fully to baseball. Blah blah blah.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3782
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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08-05-10 11:59 AM - Post#85525
In response to Jeff2sf
And David Jackson would have been the best guard in the history of Ivy Basketball.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2280
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-05-10 12:29 PM - Post#85526
In response to Silver Maple
And Will Venable gave up a professional baseball career to matriculate at Princeton and play basketball. Wait, no he didn't!
I love this site! Only here can anyone argue about Ivy sports.
I agree with gokinsmen. I remember reading an analysis of the NBA draft from Chris Young's graduation year that projected him as a first rounder. What was his year of graduation?
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2280
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-05-10 12:38 PM - Post#85527
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
I answered my own question: Chris Young class of 2002.
Only four big men in draft that year: #1 Yao Ming, #7 NeNe Hilario, #18 Curtis Borchardt (honorable mention All American Junior year at Stanford), and #24 Nenad Krstic.
So would you have drafted Chris Young or NeNe?
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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Denton Koon To Princeton
08-05-10 12:45 PM - Post#85529
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
You're kidding right? Please tell me you're kidding.
Also, for some reason, if you google it, Young is listed as eligible for the 2003 draft. Not the 2002 draft.
Regardless, teams ain't drafting seniors from the Ivies in the lottery. It's NOT happening.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2280
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-05-10 01:01 PM - Post#85531
In response to Jeff2sf
"He is expected to be called up to Class AA Harrisburg and could get called up to the Expos next season. Young was thought to have first round potential before giving up basketball."
The above is from a piece in COLLEGEBASKETBALLNEWS.COM in 2003. Young applied for the supplemental draft as a backup to his baseball career. Had he finnished at Princeton, he would have been in the 2002 draft, I believe.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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08-05-10 01:10 PM - Post#85532
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
This is such revisionist history. It's laughable. But of course you'd say that about him, he's a princeton guy. It's enough that he's a good pitcher in the majors, we don't need to go talking about how he should have been drafted 7th in the 2002 draft.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
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Age: 73
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Reg: 11-21-04
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08-05-10 01:37 PM - Post#85534
In response to Jeff2sf
I was just sorry to lose the guy when he signed with the Pirates. Nor did I propose him as a lottery pick. I just asked a rhetorical question. The NBA drafts always look a little bizarre when reviewed in retrospect. I dug up the quotation just to point out that non-Princetonians wrote articles at the time mentioning him as a potential first rounder, just as gokinsmen wrote.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2819
Reg: 11-23-04
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08-05-10 02:20 PM - Post#85538
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
We would not be having this pointless debate were it not for a bizarre Ivy rule that prohibited Chris Young from continuing his college basketball career because he had signed a professional contract in an unrelated sport. I think that it is unfair to suggest that he walked away from his team. Princeton basketball fans would have LOVED to see two more years of Young on the court. We can only speculate what other events were affected by Young's forced departure from the team (Carmody's move to NW? Gloger's transfer? JT III's subsequent career? Chris Krug's (see above) playing status?
It should also be pointed out that Young graduated with his incoming class.
I think that many of us are hungry for real news and the upcoming season.
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pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts: 2470
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-05-10 03:05 PM - Post#85541
In response to Tiger69
A Princetonian complaining about pointless debates about bizarre Ivy rules. /sigh/
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3782
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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08-05-10 03:08 PM - Post#85542
In response to pennhoops
To which Gloger transfer are you referring?
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2280
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-05-10 03:49 PM - Post#85547
In response to Tiger69
I think that it is unfair to suggest that he walked away from his team.
I think that many of us are hungry for real news and the upcoming season.
I read through all the posts, and I can't find any suggestion that anyone thinks he walked away from his team.
And yes, I am hungry for REAL news! Which is why I read this thread to begin with. I hope the recruiting continues to be successful.
A big man of similar ilk to Chris Young would be wonderful.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2819
Reg: 11-23-04
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08-05-10 04:06 PM - Post#85549
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
Actually I was alluding to SM's post "he bolted after his sophomore year". My poor choice of words
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2819
Reg: 11-23-04
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08-05-10 04:21 PM - Post#85550
In response to Silver Maple
... I should have said, "his INITIAL transfer"! For all the flack that Gloger and Princeton have taken (mostly from Penn posters), I feel some sympathy for him -- especially after seeing him leave the court near the end of his final game (Brown). I believe that he was declared academically ineligible shortly after that game. I don't know what was going on in his head as he ran toward the locker room, but I don't think that it was happy. I also don't know if he ever graduated.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3683
Reg: 02-06-10
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Denton Koon To Princeton
08-05-10 04:57 PM - Post#85552
In response to Tiger69
Yeesh, I didn't know that an offhand comment about a potential late first-rounder potentially going 14th or 15th by career's end would kick up so much dust! For the record, just as I'm really happy for Lin, I don't really feel a homer-esque need to prove that Princeton has/had NBA talent.
BUT let's not hijack this thread further. Especially over something so speculative -- who the heck knows.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3683
Reg: 02-06-10
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08-05-10 05:02 PM - Post#85553
In response to gokinsmen
Getting back on topic, is it me or has Princeton been securing commits earlier than usual under SJ? Hummer and Bray were relatively low-key prospects when they were signed (esp. Bray). Then they went to to have big, publicized senior years. Maybe they think they've got another gem-in-the-rough in Koon?
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pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts: 2470
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Denton Koon To Princeton
08-05-10 08:58 PM - Post#85556
In response to gokinsmen
Yeesh, I didn't know that an offhand comment about a potential late first-rounder
Maybe it's because you didn't make an offhand comment about a potential late first-rounder but pretty much a retrospective guarantee that Young was a very early pick:
Young -- a bigman who might have a been a late-lottery pick had he stayed (certainly a first-rounder)
It's not offhand, since it's the explicit direction you moved the conversation in and there is absolutely nothing in that statement that comes close to resembling "late."
And beyond that, Hummer was a fairly high profile recruit.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3683
Reg: 02-06-10
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Re: Denton Koon To Princeton
08-05-10 09:17 PM - Post#85557
In response to pennhoops
Er, your whole post just encapsulates how you totally misread my post.
I said he "MIGHT" have been a "LATE" lottery pick (which could mean 12-15). I did say he "certainly" would have been a "late first-rounder," but that's not unreasonable considering he was projected a potential late first rounder after just his sophomore year. In retrospect, maybe those scouts were factoring in his longterm prospects as well.
And, yes, those comments were "off-hand" -- from the last sentence of a second paragraph after my main point and longer paragraph about Denton Koon.
Also, I said Hummer was "relatively" low-key -- "relative" to his status after senior year. That's why I used that word. Please read things a bit more closely before flying off the handle. You Penn guys are borderline trolling, here.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-06-10 02:44 AM - Post#85564
In response to gokinsmen
You know what I love about this board? The instant I read gokinsmen write the blurb I was 100% sure that Penn fans would comment! Good stuff.
P.S. I thought Geoff Owens outplayed Young in their matchups. I love Owens, but if he is beating you I'm not sure about lottery pick status. I do think Young would have been a very, very good basketball player by his senior year, but I also think he made the right choice taking the baseball money.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2280
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-06-10 09:14 AM - Post#85572
In response to Mike Porter
I thought Geoff Owens outplayed Young in their matchups.
So you are saying Geoff Owens should have been a lottery pick? 
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pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts: 2470
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Denton Koon To Princeton
08-06-10 09:32 AM - Post#85573
In response to gokinsmen
1. An argument about the semantics in a remark about whether or not Chris Young would have been a lottery pick is like a debate about what number Louis Dale would have worn if the Wizards had drafted him instead of John Wall. It's sheer fantasy and pointless.
2. Since you've gotten interested in length, go back and reread your initial post. That second paragraph - which is the only part of the post interested in fostering discussion - is, what, three, four words shorter than the first? "Much longer"?
3. How is
And beyond that, Hummer was a fairly high profile recruit.
flying off the handle?
Hummer was quite visible in DC - a three star recruit on Scout, for people who get off on those things. He was a very good pickup for Princeton. I'm not happy Penn has to play against him. What about that are you getting snitty for?
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Denton Koon To Princeton
08-06-10 09:57 AM - Post#85574
In response to pennhoops
Hummer was in 2007 or 2008 among the Super60, ESPN100, or whatever the list was at the time for the 2009 class. From a sheer rankings perspective, he was one of the top recruits to enter the league since Max Kenyi (I wish that statement actually meant something).
But yeah, Hummer was the highest-profile recruit in a very good '09 league class (Casey and Curry were steps behind in the rankings). They got him to commit early because he was a Princeton legacy.
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Howard Gensler
Postdoc
Posts: 4141
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-06-10 01:30 PM - Post#85585
In response to gokinsmen
Getting back on topic, is it me or has Princeton been securing commits earlier than usual under SJ? Hummer and Bray were relatively low-key prospects when they were signed (esp. Bray). Then they went to to have big, publicized senior years. Maybe they think they've got another gem-in-the-rough in Koon?
I can't speak for Bray but Hummer was not a low-key prospect. He was the key inside player on one of the top teams in one of the top leagues in the Baltimore-Washington corridor. Everyone knew about him and unless he got a high-level BCS offer, everyone knew he was going to Princeton.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3683
Reg: 02-06-10
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08-06-10 05:54 PM - Post#85591
In response to Howard Gensler
Again, again, "relatively" low-key -- relative to where he ended up. I know he was always high-profile for an Ivy, but after his monster senior season, in which he was conference POY in one of the most competitive conferences in the country, his stock skyrocketed.
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pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts: 2470
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-06-10 06:05 PM - Post#85593
In response to gokinsmen
Why is it even necessary to indicate the qualifier of "relatively"? This is an Ivy League site. The recruits we're discussing are automatically couched in the context of other Ivy recruits. In those terms, Hummer - Hummer the junior or Hummer the senior - was a high profile recruit. John Wall and Derrick Favors weren't part of the discussion. On the rare occasion that a legitimately high profile recruit publicly teases Penn or, increasingly so, Harvard (see Kenyatta Smith or Rod Odom), a big deal is made. Otherwise, I just don't see where you're coming from.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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08-06-10 06:12 PM - Post#85594
In response to gokinsmen
Ian Hummer was probably the highest profile Ivy recruit of his class. He was a known quantity even before his senior year. If Hummer is a relatively low-key recruit then who in the Ivies right now was a high-profile recruit?
Denton Koon is an under the radar recruit even by Ivy standards. He doesn't show up in any of the recruiting tracking services as far as I can tell. I saw an all-Missouri list that has him at #46 in the state, right behind incoming Columbia recruit Danny Feldman.
Koon might be real good - Sydney Johnson is an excellent talent evaluator and I'm sure he sees something he likes. But it isn't fair to Koon to compare him to Ian Hummer.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3683
Reg: 02-06-10
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Denton Koon To Princeton
08-06-10 07:51 PM - Post#85598
In response to TheLine
Well, that's what I'm saying, guys. He went from "high profile for Ivy" (i.e. still relatively low-profile) to a high-profile guy in general (WCAC POY and ESPN National PotW). I'm a fan of college b-ball in general, so I guess I don't just think in terms of Ivy all the time.
Also, I said Koon looked like a "poor man's" Hummer. Wish I didn't have to keep repeating myself on here.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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08-06-10 08:18 PM - Post#85599
In response to gokinsmen
a poor man's Ian Hummer = a homeless man's Errick Peck
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joe nassau
Sophomore
Posts: 150
Reg: 02-13-05
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Re: Chris Young
08-20-10 05:26 PM - Post#85929
In response to pennhoops
Well, he was 6-10, 250 his sophomore year. 14 pts, 6 rbs, 3 blks a game. I don't recall any recent Ivy big men, including Jeff Foote, having as good stats their sophomore year. As was mentioned in other posts, he outplayed Chris Mihm, but also Eric Chenoweth of Kansas. Plus, having seen him play several times at Jadwin in 1999, he was also starting to finish HARD, dunking on people both in transition, but also via low post moves. Lottery pick, not likely, but late 1st round pick? Maybe...
It's all moot given that he signed a baseball contract and since the Ivies are the only college conference not to let players sign a pro contract in one sport and remain amateur in other(s)...why
In any event, why that rule hasn't been changed is a mystery to me, especially since so few players are affected (Mark Derosa?)
In any event, in the great spirit of revisionism, that 1999 pretty much fell apart. Besides Young, Spencer Gloger transferred to UCLA, Chris Krug had a nervous breakdown, and Mason Rocca got hurt....but the couple of times that those guys were really in sync, the results were pretty amazing.
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pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts: 2470
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-20-10 09:57 PM - Post#85935
In response to joe nassau
Your criteria for getting a guaranteed contracted in the NBA: played well against two BCS opponents? Dunking? 14 ppg in a low major conference?
I'll hold while you take this call from the BRF Scouting Service.
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