Ulysses Pleas
Freshman
Posts: 12
Age: 71
Reg: 09-15-10
|
09-15-10 10:34 PM - Post#86512
I’ve followed your conversations for over a year and have wanted to jump in. I’m not Ivy guy. I was much too much of a sketchy high school student, so I attended one of those New England Ivy substitutes where I played D3 basketball. I grew up in an intense basketball culture. My immediate high school team included 4 NBA players and we produced at least 7 NBA players and numerous D1 players over a 10 year period. I think I understand basketball and the recruiting game pretty well.
My son graduated from prep school last June and is doing a PG year at a northeast prep school to improve his chances to play D1 ball. All of the prestigious D3 (Emory, Case, Washington U of St. Louis, etc.) programs wanted him last year. Even though my wife registered him with 7 of the 8 Ivy’s as an interested prospect, and he performed well at three elite Ivy summer camps, he did not get a nibble until I asked his famous godfather to call one of the Ivy head coaches. The coach grew up as a fan of my son’s godfather. He told him he had filled his class out, but that if my son could get in the school he had a 95% chance of making the squad. My son felt insulted.
My son’s problem was that he attended a school where basketball was not a priority. Additionally, his coach’s thought process was why not just go to Emory, Chicago, Amherst, NYU and move on with life. You’re not pro prospect, so why sign up for the additional work. My son agreed he was not necessarily a pro prospect, but he wanted to see to what extent he could develop his game. After playing several outstanding games against D1 laden teams, his prep coach suddenly became convinced he was a viable D1 prospect. A couple of his game tapes were sent to three non-Ivy mid-majors and the consensus was that he was a D1 talent, but playing out of position, and that he needed another year of strengthening and seasoning. Still puzzling to me was that the fact that there was no interest from the Ivies--except the school awakened by my son’s godfather’s call. No, a better of way of saying it: there was zero awareness on the part of the Ivies.
So this is what I’m proposing. There are always these very thorough and nuanced discussions about the Ivy recruitment process on this board. I think what is missing from the discussion is the other side of the relationship: the athlete and his parents. I’m willing to give the board an inside look at that side of the process. My son started school earlier this month and will no doubt become an Ivy League recruiting target. None of the coaches—save for Mr. 95%-- at this point know that he even exists. That will change in the next two weeks.
The only ground rule of my proposal is that my son’s name is not part of our discussion. I promise not to tout my son’s ability or disparage any other player. I will not reveal his name until he has committed to a school. Obviously I’ll invite you to guess his name before I reveal it.
Do we have a deal?
I know you’re wondering why I am on the Penn board. Penn is one of the Ivies my son will consider.
|
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4360
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: He May Have Game
09-16-10 07:04 AM - Post#86513
In response to Ulysses Pleas
Well - you need to be careful. We are all technically boosters under NCAA rules and we shouldn't be talking inappropriately to fathers of kids being recruited by Penn even on these boards.
I don't think there is anything wrong with you sharing your experience as an anonymous poster, but Penn posters need to be measured in their responses. Outside of NCAA rules, it's generally bad form for any of us to stick our noses into a live recruiting situation. It's not fair to the staff. So - if your son does become part of an active recruiting process, we should limit our comments to answering general inquiries about what we may know about league processes, Penn basketball or the University in general etc, etc. That doesn't mean you can't share from your perspective. We are the boosters and are the ones that need to show restraint and respect for the process and the rules.
It sounds like your son did not play AAU ball. Even though we are not the Big 10, Ivy coaches have been busy for the past 12 months working on a recruiting class for this year and the staffs are pretty thorough in doing their homework during the evaluation periods. This includes attending a lot of the open gym days at those NE Prep schools. There is a lot of activity right now and there was tons leading up to this critical fall recruiting cycle. While recruiting has accelerated, even for our league, the process normally continues through the winter and spring to find kids to fill out the recruiting classes.
Having said that - there are always late bloomers or kids who are overlooked for one reason or another that end up playing in our league. A good example is Louis Dale of Cornell who was still sending out tape late into his senior year. Cornell got a terrific Ivy player that a lot of schools passed on. So - it makes sense to evaluate any film that arrives and check out any kid recomended by a respected NE prep school coach. I don't think Penn coaches paid enough attention to the film Dale sent to them and we obviously paid a price for 4 years.
Just my 2 cents.
|
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 3994
Reg: 11-23-04
|
09-16-10 09:54 AM - Post#86520
In response to AsiaSunset
This sounds like fun, testing whether Penn fans will stay with in the Asia limits. Where is BRF when we need him?
|
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts: 2470
Reg: 11-21-04
|
09-16-10 11:04 AM - Post#86521
In response to Old Bear
This sounds like fun, testing whether Penn fans will stay with in the Asia limits. Where is BRF when we need him?
I'm not sure if you're joking or not but in case you aren't, BRF actually did cross the line with the family of a Cornell recruit many years ago.
|
Ben Franklin
Masters Student
Posts: 652
Loc: Cleveland
Reg: 02-19-05
|
09-16-10 11:12 AM - Post#86522
In response to pennhoops
How could he? He's not a booster--he's a legitimate journalist! You've seen him quoted elsewhere..... 
|
gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3666
Reg: 02-06-10
|
Re: He May Have Game
09-16-10 07:56 PM - Post#86538
In response to Ulysses Pleas
Yeah, I wish your son the best of luck (good, even great players can slip through the cracks), but I don't feel comfortable talking about this stuff until the process over. After that, any nuggets and insight you can share would be much appreciated.
|
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3775
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
|
09-16-10 08:26 PM - Post#86540
In response to gokinsmen
Agreed. No good will come of this. I wish you and your son all the best, but, unfortunately, I think it might be best for everybody's sake if we don't have any contact until your son has made his decision.
Until then, as we say on this board, "Qapla!"
|
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1899
Reg: 11-29-04
|
09-17-10 05:26 PM - Post#86611
In response to Silver Maple
I don't quite get everyone's response. I get why we shouldn't be trying to convince Ulysses Pleas to send his kid to Penn. We don't want to be interfering "boosters."
What I don't get is that he didn't really ask us for anything in his "deal." He mainly just asked that we respect the privacy/identity of his son. And he has offered to give us insight into the recruiting process - something many of us who aren't insiders crave.
I say it's a deal. And I promise to the basketball board and to the school that I won't in any way try to influence his son's decision.
So from my standpoint, post away, Ulysses Pleas!
|
Redfish
Masters Student
Posts: 767
Loc: under a bridge in Phoenix...
Reg: 11-26-04
|
09-17-10 08:00 PM - Post#86614
In response to Ben Franklin
Um, maybe Ulysses and BRF are one and the same.
|
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 3994
Reg: 11-23-04
|
09-17-10 08:09 PM - Post#86615
In response to Redfish
Is Ulysses' son really only 5'6"?
|
Howard Gensler
Postdoc
Posts: 4141
Reg: 11-21-04
|
09-17-10 08:45 PM - Post#86617
In response to Old Bear
This is an in interesting philosophical problem for the NCAA in the Internet age.
If an anonymous poster writes about the recruiting decision-making process of his unnamed son and is influenced (or not influenced) by the ramblings, thoughts, comments, bile and misinformation (or flat-out boosterism) of other anonymous posters, can that really be considered any type of a violation even in the insane world of the NCAA?
Any one of us could at any time be indirectly speaking to recruits who come on here and post under a made-up name. I'm not sure how one deals with that.
|
dpostm92
Senior
Posts: 326
Reg: 11-22-04
|
09-18-10 03:04 PM - Post#86636
In response to Howard Gensler
So in the view of the NCAA, fan = booster? Is that all it takes?
|
Ben Franklin
Masters Student
Posts: 652
Loc: Cleveland
Reg: 02-19-05
|
09-18-10 03:23 PM - Post#86637
In response to dpostm92
Besides more obvious financial categories, if you own season tickets, you're considered a booster.
NCAA rules on the Internet: the internet is considered similar to email, telephone calls, and general correspondence. It would be a violation of NCAA rules for a booster to use the internet as an avenue to contact prospects, their families, or their coaches. Participation in chat rooms with prospects is also strictly prohibited.
|
pchrystie
Masters Student
Posts: 673
Reg: 03-14-06
|
09-18-10 04:05 PM - Post#86639
In response to Ben Franklin
To keep things on the up and up, perhaps Mr. Pleas could let us know where his family buys groceries and we could all meet there.
|
dpostm92
Senior
Posts: 326
Reg: 11-22-04
|
09-18-10 05:16 PM - Post#86642
In response to Ben Franklin
How about an alum like myself, who hasn't been to the Palestra since 1993 and hasn't given a penny to the school? Am I a booster solely by virtue of the fact that I read and comment on this board? I would tend to think not, but...
|
pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts: 2470
Reg: 11-21-04
|
09-18-10 05:38 PM - Post#86643
In response to dpostm92
...but you'd be wrong.
http://www.smcgaels.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID...
|
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
|
 09-18-10 07:28 PM - Post#86644
In response to dpostm92
Hey, be a sport and give UP a few bucks and help it close that financial gap with HYP that your fellow alumni are so often complaining about.
|
Howard Gensler
Postdoc
Posts: 4141
Reg: 11-21-04
|
09-18-10 10:38 PM - Post#86648
In response to Ben Franklin
Besides more obvious financial categories, if you own season tickets, you're considered a booster.
NCAA rules on the Internet: the internet is considered similar to email, telephone calls, and general correspondence. It would be a violation of NCAA rules for a booster to use the internet as an avenue to contact prospects, their families, or their coaches. Participation in chat rooms with prospects is also strictly prohibited.
But no one knows if young Mr. Pleas is a prospect - or even a person. How can speaking to an anonymous avatar be a violation of anything except common sense.
|
ivyhoopsfan
Freshman
Posts: 35
Age: 74
Reg: 09-18-10
|
09-18-10 11:11 PM - Post#86649
In response to Howard Gensler
It's shame these concerns muddy the water. The opportunity to view the recruiting process from this perspective would be a golden opportunity.
|
Ulysses Pleas
Freshman
Posts: 12
Age: 71
Reg: 09-15-10
|
09-22-10 01:38 AM - Post#86802
In response to ivyhoopsfan
Thanks for the kind interest and early insights.
I was unaware that slightly opening a window on the recruiting process had the potential to create an NCAA violation. My only ambition is to provide another piece of the puzzle that you guys grapple with from time to time. You have an interesting community and as a traveler who will live among you for what may be a brief period of time, I thought it might be beneficial to share with you a new perspective about your culture, of course, all from my limited, humble, and uninformed viewpoint. But then some of you mentioned these powerful gods that will come down from the heavens and punish all of us if I say too much, and I thought to myself, maybe we really need to do this.
Your conversation is an invaluable forum for a parent who must provide a level of guidance to a child about to make the first important independent decision of his life. However, after reading your boards the last year or so, your well-written, well-reasoned posts tend to negate each other and the argument always end up in the same place. I think there is information from the student and parent side that can advance the conversation.
I will begin by saying that Ivy basketball has the potential to be nationally relevant. The Cornell phenomenon should not be viewed as an anomaly. The current roster churning at most of the top-twenty programs creates the real possibility of a discipline, well-coached, athletic, senior-laden mid-major doing some real damage in March. I believe there can be multiple teams in the Ivy that fit the Cornell template.
Where will these students-athletes come from? They will come from everywhere. My son has had the benefit of both public and private school systems, and I have met few parents in my travels that didn’t aspire to have their child attend an Ivy League school. With their generous financial aid packages, the Ivies are within the reach of the most economically deprived families if their child has the academic bona fides. Recruiting just has to be more thorough and forward leaning. For instance, this board has gone all gaga over Harvard getting Kenyatta Smith, and while size does matter, based on the film I’ve seen Princeton recruit Clay Wilson is just as good a prospect. Kudos to Coach Johnson. The kids are out there; I just think that league wide the recruiting commitment is not fully there yet.
But that is all changing even as we blog. And, the change agent is Tommy Amaker. Like him or not, Amaker is driven by a scrap of information that gets lost in all of your discussions: win the Ivy League and you get your ticket punched for the big dance. Amaker knows that only half of the Ivy schools are committed to putting a winning basketball team on the floor and none are willing or have the present capability to recruit on a national basis. And so he has stockpiled a collection of players whose sheer talent will make them virtually unbeatable, if not this year, then surely next year. And if Amaker is allowed to get the upper hand, they will own the league for a very long time.
(A bit of history: my senior year in high school Georgetown was 3-23. John Thompson was hired the next year and within three years they were in the NCAA tournament and in twenty years he was a coaching legend. Gentlemen, college basketball is all about recruiting)
But I think the prospect of Harvard basketball hegemony is a good thing. I think the thought of Harvard’s dominance will motivate the other Ivies to compete. And, a rising tide will lift all boats in the case of the Ivy League. Based on Harvard’s roster Amaker will be hard-pressed to take anymore prospects this year and next year. So, if you are an outstanding basketball player with the academic bona fides and you want an Ivy degree, you’ll have to open yourself up to other possibilities.
But enough of that. My son has been at his new school for two weeks now, but I haven’t bugged him about how things are going. These 18 years olders, you have to give them their space. There have been three open gyms and a number of high majors and Ivies have stopped by according to three national recruiting services. He has received good reviews. At some point in the next two weeks, my wife and I will talk to the head coach about the schools we want him to reach out to. The list will include at least two Ivies and the leading high academic majors.
|
