Howard Gensler
Postdoc
Posts: 4141
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Pie-in-the-Sky Recruits
12-06-10 11:23 PM - Post#90404
In response to gokinsmen
That Hubert is taking this long to make a decision, I think, is a good sign for our slim chances. Like how a jury deliberating for a long time is a good sign that they're gonna make a "surprise" decision.
I would agree that it may be a good sign for Princeton, but Hubert could just be waiting to get scores back to see if he's admissible at Princeton. The last report on the kid said he needed to improve his scores and you can't really pick Maryland over Princeton until you find out if you can get into Princeton.
Or he could just be taking his time.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3685
Reg: 02-06-10
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Pie-in-the-Sky Recruits
12-07-10 01:06 AM - Post#90417
In response to Howard Gensler
That was part of my reasoning as well. And you're right -- he may well be waiting to hear back on his ACT scores. In which case, he must be very serious about considering Princeton equally alongside Wake and Maryland. I mean, it'd be very easy and understandable to say, "The heck with stupid test prep, I'll take the elite BCS offer and relax my senior year." It shows great character that he's willing to wait this long and have an Ivy in his final 3.
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Howard Gensler
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Posts: 4141
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-07-10 09:43 AM - Post#90420
In response to gokinsmen
Well played. You took my hypothesis and turned it into a referendum on his "great character."
For all any of us know the kid could be delaying his decision because he's off playing the slots at the Borgata.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-07-10 10:22 AM - Post#90425
In response to Howard Gensler
North Carolina now getting involved in the recruitment...
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2819
Reg: 11-23-04
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12-07-10 11:13 AM - Post#90430
In response to mrjames
Now is UNC really interested in Hubert or are they simply trying to disarm MD of a potentially dangerous player?
Sharks are circling in the water.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-07-10 11:20 AM - Post#90431
In response to Tiger69
With only 13 scholarships, there probably isn't all that much of that except at the highest of highest level of recruit. Just too few spots to spend them poaching players you don't really want or need.
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Tiger69
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Posts: 2819
Reg: 11-23-04
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12-07-10 02:06 PM - Post#90458
In response to mrjames
Why do you suppose that UNC is just now joining the fray? Did they recently lose a key recruit and are looking to replace him?
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puband09
Masters Student
Posts: 782
Reg: 12-19-09
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12-07-10 02:09 PM - Post#90459
In response to Tiger69
I'll be pretty disappointed if he chooses NC. This is a pretty disingenuous move on their part, and Hubert will likely get much more playing time with the Tigers or Terps.
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Howard Gensler
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Reg: 11-21-04
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12-07-10 03:56 PM - Post#90474
In response to puband09
How do you jump to the conclusion that the move is disingenuous on UNC's part? Maybe they need a forward with Hubert's skill set. It's also a good school with a beautiful campus and a rich hoops history.
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puband09
Masters Student
Posts: 782
Reg: 12-19-09
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12-07-10 04:03 PM - Post#90478
In response to Howard Gensler
How do you jump to the conclusion that the move is disingenuous on UNC's part? Maybe they need a forward with Hubert's skill set. It's also a good school with a beautiful campus and a rich hoops history.
Uh... because schools like Princeton, Maryland, Wake, and Nova were interested in Hubert the entire time, while NC was presumably courting different/better players.
Now, all of a sudden at the 11th hour they are for some reason interested in Hubert. They're either desperate for something, or have an extra spot on the roster and want to snag a recruit from ACC competish.
Obviously they have the clout to get anyone, but to suggest UNC has had sincere interest in Hubert is ridiculous.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-07-10 04:05 PM - Post#90479
In response to puband09
This is part of the game. Just ask Harvard when Minnesota jumped in on Hollins. Or ask any Penn fan about the litany of Quaker recruits that chose a late-charging BCS school over Penn's consistent interest.
This is just the nature of the game.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3685
Reg: 02-06-10
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Pie-in-the-Sky Recruits
12-07-10 04:19 PM - Post#90480
In response to Howard Gensler
Not agreeing with pub per se, but Hubert has been an elite target for a long time (on ESPN's Super 60 as a junior) and received super elite offers from Nova, UConn, OSU, and Pitt...but UNC still wasn't serious about him until now. Now that two ACC schools are in his Final 3.
Moreover, I don't see any evidence that Hubert's stock has risen significantly of late. It might have even fallen a little. So it might be "disingenuous" of UNC (and unfair to Hubert) to jump in late and act very interested all the sudden at a time when he was down to 3 longtime suitors.
In UNC's defense, maybe John Henson (6-10, 200lbs shot-blocker) just told them he definitely plans to declare for the 2011 NBA Draft (lockout be damned), and they're scrambling for a defensive C/PF.
While this isn't good news for Princeton, Hubert's turned down super-elite offers before so it's hardly game-over. I do realize that UNC with its history is in a different class than other top programs, but jumping in this late for a defensive star who still needs major work on his offense? That's a recipe for riding the pine.
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puband09
Masters Student
Posts: 782
Reg: 12-19-09
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Re: Pie-in-the-Sky Recruits
12-07-10 04:28 PM - Post#90483
In response to gokinsmen
I understand its part of the recruiting game. All I said is that UNC's interest hasn't been sincere like that of many other schools, and that Hubert won't see minutes for a while at NC.
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Howard Gensler
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Posts: 4141
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-07-10 04:50 PM - Post#90491
In response to gokinsmen
Sorry, there's nothing disingenuous about it. First, we don't know how serious UNC's interest is. Second, if their interest is real, then it's real. Whether they lost a recruit they wanted more or just got in with Hubert five seconds ago, that doesn't make their interest disingenuous.
Last year, Penn fans were rightfully ticked off that Nevada got in with Kevin Panzer in the spring after Penn had been recruiting the kid for months, but Nevada's interest was real. It might have been based on their own self-interest (getting the best available forward they could), but it wasn't disingenuous. It may not have been in the best interests of the student-athlete, but that's a whole different issue. IF Roy Williams is actively recruiting Hubert it's because he thinks Hubert can help UNC win and he wants Hubert to be a part of the Tarheels. Hubert may have a better chance to play more elsewhere (and sooner) but that wouldn't make UNC's interest any less genuine.
Lastly, what if Hubert's been stalling because he really hoped to get an offer from UNC.
You can't take any of this personally. Recruiting is not for sissies and the recruits and parents probably lie more than the coaches.
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puband09
Masters Student
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Reg: 12-19-09
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12-07-10 05:18 PM - Post#90495
In response to Howard Gensler
Clearly our definitions of "disingenuous" are different.
If a long lost acquaintance of mine from high school wins the lottery, and I contact him out of left field, pretending to be his best buddy and asking for money; sure, I truly, absolutely, definitely want the money, but the request is still disingenuous, at least IMO.
AFAIC, that's pretty analogous to the NC-Hubert sitch.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3783
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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12-07-10 05:28 PM - Post#90499
In response to puband09
Disingenuous means insincere. Or does it mean something else at Princeton? You have absolutely no way of knowing how sincere ANY institution's interest in a recruit is, including Princeton. Can you be certain that Princeton has never meddled in the recruitment of another Ivy's target just to mess with things?
Furthermore, do you know for certain that UNC's interest is only recent? The fact that we haven't heard about it until now doesn't mean it hasn't been going on under the radar.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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Pie-in-the-Sky Recruits
12-07-10 05:33 PM - Post#90500
In response to puband09
Clearly our definitions of "disingenuous" are different.
If a long lost acquaintance of mine from high school wins the lottery, and I contact him out of left field, pretending to be his best buddy and asking for money; sure, I truly, absolutely, definitely want the money, but the request is still disingenuous, at least IMO.
AFAIC, that's pretty analogous to the NC-Hubert sitch.
But what actual evidence do you have to support this claim? Unless you're on speaking terms with Coach Williams and Hubert, you have no idea what the motivation is... What you're arguing doesn't seem to be based on anything more than the random theory that Tiger69 threw out above that UNC was recruiting him to steal him away from Maryland.
How do you know that someone hasn't said to Coach Williams "you need to check out this Hubert kid again"? How do you know that as Howard said above, that Hubert has been waiting for a UNC offer all along?
Based on your screen name, you're relatively new to following college basketball recruiting, so I have a recommendation for you. This type of thing has happened with kids Penn was recruiting all the time. It's part of the game. Keep your expectations on the higher level prospects as low as possible, and then if it works out you'll be pleasantly surprised instead of deeply disappointed.
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pennhoops
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Posts: 2470
Reg: 11-21-04
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12-07-10 05:53 PM - Post#90501
In response to Chip Bayers
On a completely unrelated note, Charleston must have done a hell of a job recruiting... his other choices were Maryland, UNC, VT, & USC Trojans.
Not so much Charleston as Bobby Cremins.
Not so much Bobby Cremins but the other C of C recruit whose parents are his legal guardians.
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puband09
Masters Student
Posts: 782
Reg: 12-19-09
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Re: Pie-in-the-Sky Recruits
12-07-10 05:59 PM - Post#90502
In response to Mike Porter
First, "disingenuous" has pretty wide-ranging usage and connotation, including "insincere," "lacking frankness," "misleading," and even the questionable "dishonest." General Patraeus referred to Iranian aid payments to Kabul as "disingenuous." WTF does that mean? Cash is cash. He was probably applying the word in a more abstract fashion to suggest the spirit of Iran's support for the new Afghan government isn't what the generous payment would suggest.
IR tirades aside, after three posts clarifying my position, my meaning is pretty clear, but a bunch of non-Princeton posters are dwelling on a semantic argument without taking into account all I've said here.
UNC very well may want Hubert at this point -- I've never said anything to deny that -- but nothing that Hubert or the media has ever said indicates UNC was interested prior to this weekend.
I realize recruiting is pretty ruthless, and I never had my hopes up too high because I assumed he would go to Maryland. It's just too bad schools like Princeton and Maryland, who have gone above and beyond for months to court Hubert might get swept aside for a supergiant who comes in Kate in the game.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2819
Reg: 11-23-04
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Re: Pie-in-the-Sky Recruits
12-07-10 06:29 PM - Post#90508
In response to puband09
I don't understand all the fuss. Any student is entitled to consider any school and vice versa. Whatever UNC's motives, if Hubert wants to go there, that's where he belongs. I'm sure that he has considered all the factors that we are debating.
That said, I'm not assuming that he is UNC's for the taking. Maryland is just as attractive in many ways (proximity, good school, pleasant campus, solid coach, etc.), even if UNC is probably closer to a national championship. Princeton, on the other hand, is a totally different direction. I don't think that the chemistry has changed: it is still a decision between big time basketball conference vs big time degree. I think that Maryland's prospects are more affected by UNC's recent interest than Princeton's.
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