Kit
Senior
Posts: 380
Loc: Central Massachusetts
Reg: 11-29-04
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Coach Sydney Johnson
03-21-11 03:53 PM - Post#102130
In response to Silver Maple
BTW, when was the last time another program poached our coach?
Edited by Kit on 03-21-11 03:54 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1347
Reg: 12-08-04
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Coach Sydney Johnson
03-21-11 04:05 PM - Post#102132
In response to Kit
Andy Katz talks about it:
"Princeton has received inquiries if it would allow Sydney Johnson to talk to Bradley and Towson. Huh? ... Bradley and Towson? Sure, there are connections with Bradley's AD Mike Cross, who was at Princeton, and Johnson has Maryland ties in the Towson-area. But leaving his alma mater, Princeton, a place where he has great emotional investment, for these two schools would only be a money grab.
"Meanwhile, Princeton has to do more to step up and keep Johnson. .... Johnson is a better fit where he is now and will likely see that to be the case, if he hasn't already, unless he gets an offer from an ACC school."
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketba ll/blog/_/...
In fairness, I don't know how he can compare Towson and Bradley, though. The Colonial League had 3 teams make the Big Dance, with one going to the Sweet 16 and looking really good. Just about says it all.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3778
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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Re: Coach Sydney Johnson
03-21-11 04:52 PM - Post#102137
In response to Kit
BTW, when was the last time another program poached our coach?
Is that a serious question?
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Tiger86
Sophomore
Posts: 173
Reg: 02-10-11
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Re: Coach Sydney Johnson
03-21-11 05:50 PM - Post#102143
In response to Silver Maple
Kit, just the last two that didn't leave with their tail between their legs!
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2816
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-21-11 07:08 PM - Post#102153
In response to Silver Maple
"It's just that the Princeton fans are still somewhat shell-shocked by what happened the last time another program poached their head coach. Total catastrophe. So they're still kind of touchy."
I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly wasn't "shell-shocked when either Carmody or JT III left. In Carmody's case, he had been with Princeton for many years as both an assistant and head coach (a lot longer than Fran Dunphy) and left for a higher paying post with a compatible program. In the latter case, JT III practically was weaned on Georgetown B-ball, but still supports Princeton. Sad to see them go -- of course. But shell-shocked or angry? No way.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3778
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-21-11 07:26 PM - Post#102154
In response to Tiger69
Not shell-shocked by JT III's departure per se, but by what transpired afterward.
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Kit
Senior
Posts: 380
Loc: Central Massachusetts
Reg: 11-29-04
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03-21-11 07:32 PM - Post#102156
In response to Silver Maple
I grok that.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3778
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-21-11 07:47 PM - Post#102158
In response to Kit
Live long and prosper.
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Dial Lodge
Sophomore
Posts: 170
Reg: 03-08-07
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03-21-11 09:13 PM - Post#102171
In response to Silver Maple
Here's the full second paragraph from Katz's blog:
"Meanwhile, Princeton has to do more to step up and keep Johnson. These are no longer the days of Pete Carril, when a coach was just happy to be there. It's a competitive marketplace, and even if Georgia Tech or NC State were to call -- which are much more palatable jobs -- the Tigers, led by AD Gary Walters, must make the Princeton job work within the marketplace. There is money within the alumni base who love seeing their school in the NCAA tournament -- go get it. Princeton is an Ivy League power. Harvard has raised the recruiting ante in the Ivy, and now there is going to be serious competition for the top spot and a bid. So the competition to keep coaches has increased. Johnson is a better fit where he is now and will likely see that to be the case, if he hasn't already, unless he gets an offer from an ACC school."
Katz has brought up a question that I've always wondered about. How much does Princeton pay its basketball coach, and how does that compare to what is paid at mid-major and major schools? I've never seen any public listing of compensation for any Ivy coaches.
The Friends, if pressed, could raise the money to pay him a salary that would be significantly higher, but how would that fly if it was higher than that of key administrators or star faculty like Alan Blinder (and many other stars on the faculty that i'm too lazy to list)?
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puband09
Masters Student
Posts: 782
Reg: 12-19-09
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03-21-11 09:20 PM - Post#102174
In response to Dial Lodge
I bet Cornel West gets paid an a$$-load. I think I read somewhere that he's the highest paid professor at Princeton, maybe even higher paid than Shirley "The Tildge" Tilghman.
I'm sure he'll get some kind of raise after this year. The real question is how much and on what terms. Gradual increase every year for 5 years? Bonus money for each future Ivy championship?
There's also the looming concern of Gary Walters retiring. In a video on GoPrincetonTigers.tv he is giving a speech to the staff and Friends in Tampa and refers to the Kentucky game as one of "two bookends" to his career as A.D., and goes on to discuss the UCLA upset and coach search which took place during his first year. He never referred to the other bookend again, but it only added to my concerns that he may be leaving soon.
Someone else with the industry experience and deep understanding of what it means to play sports (specifically basketball) at Princeton will be hard to find.
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umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts: 476
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-21-11 11:14 PM - Post#102193
In response to puband09
There's also the looming concern of Gary Walters retiring. In a video on GoPrincetonTigers.tv he is giving a speech to the staff and Friends in Tampa and refers to the Kentucky game as one of "two bookends" to his career as A.D., and goes on to discuss the UCLA upset and coach search which took place during his first year. He never referred to the other bookend again, but it only added to my concerns that he may be leaving soon.
Someone else with the industry experience and deep understanding of what it means to play sports (specifically basketball) at Princeton will be hard to find.
How about Mike Cross from Bradley? 
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puband09
Masters Student
Posts: 782
Reg: 12-19-09
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03-21-11 11:31 PM - Post#102196
In response to umbrellaman
Unfortunately he's already got America's dream job in Peoria.
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BradleyBrave
Freshman
Posts: 22
Age: 54
Reg: 03-18-11
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03-22-11 06:23 AM - Post#102202
In response to puband09
Unfortunately he's already got America's dream job in Peoria.
That was a good one, dude, I gotta admit. Honestly, outside of the BU basketball job and a very good men's soccer program, I don't see why anyone would want the BU AD job. I think the Princeton AD job, overall, is much more attractive.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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04-04-11 05:34 PM - Post#103118
In response to sparman
We were both wrong (cus I said he would turn down these types of midlevel jobs), but I have to say, sparman, you were more wrong. because I'm juvenile like that.
Very disappointing for the league.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-04-11 05:55 PM - Post#103131
In response to Jeff2sf
This whole thing is very odd and frankly disturbing even as a Penn fan. I get that it's more money, but couldn't Princeton counter with something competitive enough to keep their homegrown hero? Or do they feel that there are enough Princeton guys in the coaching pipeline that they didn't need to break the bank? If so I think that is extremely short-sighted.
I get Johnson going somewhere else to build his career, but freakin Fairfield in the MAAC? I'm a Penn fan, but that just doesn't make sense to me. BRF has been saying that Johnson's restrictions in aid & admissions were much more difficult at Princeton as compared to Harvard's. When a move like this happens it makes me wonder if he is right...
Johnson's recruiting classes have been pretty good, but outside Hummer & Barrett (recruited 2 years ago), the guys have been a step below Harvard's. This year after a great 2nd place finish, the Princeton class for 2011 seems a little disappointing considering the improvement.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3671
Reg: 02-06-10
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Coach Sydney Johnson
04-04-11 06:24 PM - Post#103140
In response to Mike Porter
...but couldn't Princeton counter with something competitive enough to keep their homegrown hero? Or do they feel that there are enough Princeton guys in the coaching pipeline that they didn't need to break the bank? If so I think that is extremely short-sighted.
You wonder if he was perhaps offended by that. "Well, Sydney, we have Brian and Mitch and Mike all willing to take this job at your current salary so..."
And from Princeton's p.o.v., if you've resigned yourself to the fact that all successful Tiger/Ivy coaches will ultimately leave you anyway, why offer a raise at all? Don't get me wrong -- I'd give SJ the cash in a heartbeat. But I can see why Princeton would do otherwise. They prefer young, hungry coaches looking to make a name for themselves...and you don't need to offer big money to get them.
Again, considering Princeton's deep pockets, it's stingy as heck. But from a cold, cruel business standpoint, I can understand that thought process.
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umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts: 476
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-04-11 06:32 PM - Post#103143
In response to gokinsmen
Obviously, Princeton has the money. I just don't think it's realistic that Princeton, or any Ivy League school is going to be willing to match what a BCS or a committed mid-major is going to be willing to pay. The way the Ivy League looks at athletics is different. Princeton will always be Princeton regardless of what happens in basketball for 99.9% of the world. A school like Fairfield is going to get much more return on investment by spending on a coach and trying to make a name in basketball.
I'm not saying I like it, but if you root for Ivy League basketball, it's they way it is going to be.
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Dial Lodge
Sophomore
Posts: 170
Reg: 03-08-07
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Coach Sydney Johnson
04-04-11 06:33 PM - Post#103144
In response to gokinsmen
This is what hapens when a recession reduces the endowment down to a mere $14-billion. No money kicking around for non-essentials like coaches' salaries. 
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sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1347
Reg: 12-08-04
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04-04-11 06:35 PM - Post#103145
In response to Dial Lodge
I would love to be at Shirley's next alumni meet, greet, and solicitation.
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gokinsmen
Postdoc
Posts: 3671
Reg: 02-06-10
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04-04-11 06:35 PM - Post#103146
In response to umbrellaman
Obviously, Princeton has the money. I just don't think it's realistic that Princeton, or any Ivy League school is going to be willing to match what a BCS or a committed mid-major is going to be willing to pay. The way the Ivy League looks at athletics is different. Princeton will always be Princeton regardless of what happens in basketball for 99.9% of the world. A school like Fairfield is going to get much more return on investment by spending on a coach and trying to make a name in basketball.
I'm not saying I like it, but if you root for Ivy League basketball, it's they way it is going to be.
Agreed. Well put.
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