mountainred
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01-15-12 03:33 PM - Post#117253
A spilt is probably what should have been expected, but frankly I thought Cornell matched-up better with Penn than Princeton. I guess that is what shooting 6/27 from behind the arc vs. 10/20 does.
A 12 point home loss stings, but I think there are signs of progress. Cornell got to the line more often than either Penn or Princeton (though that number is inflated for the Princeton game because of the 17 FT's the Big Red took in the last 2:30 of the game). The Big Red continue to win the turnover battle and rebounding was basically a draw in both games. That's a fine performance in three of the "four factors."
Now the but, and it is hard to believe I'm saying this about a Cornell team, but the Big Red can't shoot. Depending on who you look at, they are somewhere upwards of #200 in the nation. And they continue to take an insane number of threes even though no one shoots them well expect Ferry (and that's only every other night or so).  They moved away from that game in the second half of the Princeton game (also the best half they played this weeked) but fell back into old habits against Penn.
The other good thing is that Cornell did seem to get the talent infusion they needed to compete for a title. Miller is a player, Cancer and Cherry look promising, and LaMore should develop into at least a competent Ivy big. Courtney has said those four are in his top nine. As the leauge improves, they will need help to win a title, but at least it's a core group that could legitimately make a run in a year or two.
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cornellfan4
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01-15-12 04:08 PM - Post#117260
In response to mountainred
Yes I expected a split too but was disappointing to never really be in this game.
I dont understand why they take so many 3's, Courtney said 3pt shooting is a key part of their offense but it really isnt. Hard to criticize Miller as he was a best player out there by far but I wish he would stop taking 3's, he is was 0-4, he is not a 3pt shooter and should be more aggressive than settling for a 3. And Ferry has been terrible the last 3 games, Albright doesnt count, all he does is make 3's and he hasnt been doing that well.
Yes I look forward to the next few years, especially with Bunce and Harmon coming in next year which should help out with our rebounding issues. I like that Courtney has been playing Miller, Cancer, Cherry a lot because they are the future
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mountainred
Masters Student
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Age: 57
Loc: Charleston, WV
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01-16-12 09:33 AM - Post#117300
In response to cornellfan4
There are times that I wonder about Courtney, and saying the three ball is key part of this offense is one of those times. Technically, he's right because we take a lot of threes. But after sixteen games its pretty clear that long-range shooting is not a strength but a weakness. The only guys above 30% are Ferry (who has cooled off and doesn't contribute anything else) and Josh (who looks totally lost right now).
Any idea what is up with Figini? He had a series of solid games but from halftime of the Illinois game on has looked totally lost. He just doesn't seem to fit what Courtney wants to do.
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cornellfan4
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1-1 (but progress, I think)
01-16-12 04:12 PM - Post#117332
In response to mountainred
Yeah we take a lot of 3's but we dont make a lot, shooting 33.1%, dead last in the league and 213 in the country yet we are 64th in the country in 3pt attempts. My hope is that next year with Ferry gone and no real 3pt shooters, Courtney wont be letting them take 3pt shots at will. 3pt shooting doesnt seem to fit into Courtney's mentality at all. He wants to eventually run that 40mins of hell, pressure you the whole game, get easy points in transition, and keep driving at you to get you into foul trouble. All of his recruits fit into this system, the guys left over from Donahue except for Miles dont really have a place
Figini is probably done getting serious minutes especially next year with Bunce and Harmon which is fine with me because I would rather see Lamore and Giddens get his minutes this year. Figini is a big man with a guard's mentality, he isnt tough enough and has no post moves yet he is a good 3pt shooter. He would have fit well into Donahue's system. He is also too slow, Cancer and Cherry I think gave him 2 quick passes near the basket that he could have quickly put in but he wasnt ready and had to kick it back out.
Edited by cornellfan4 on 01-16-12 04:16 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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mrjames
Professor
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Loc: Montclair, NJ
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Re: 1-1 (but progress, I think)
01-16-12 05:52 PM - Post#117351
In response to cornellfan4
Cornell's issues still stem from not being able to control the paint. I don't know if the incoming frosh will have the instant impact that most Cornell fans are hoping for - there aren't a lot of bigs that have come in and really dominated, so I tend to downplay potential help in that department.
The Big Red just sends way too many people to the line, allows opponents to score inside too easily and and can't keep possessions alive on the offensive end. Yes, the threes are frustrating, because they tend to be high variance and streaky, but as mentioned, this team's problems are on the interior. There aren't many good teams that can't do at least an okay job of controlling the paint.
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mountainred
Masters Student
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Age: 57
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Re: 1-1 (but progress, I think)
01-16-12 06:11 PM - Post#117354
In response to cornellfan4
No player was hurt more by the coaching change than Figini -- he's so much more of a fit in Donahue's system. Still, I really thought the light was coming on around the exam break. He was staying down low and not floating out to the wing to take 3's and grabbing about six rebounds in 25 minutes (not great but not awful). He's got a nice shot. Then he struggles in the second half of the Illinois game (0-5 shooting) and he's just disappeared. He just looks in a haze in his cameos; he loses his man on defense, isn't expecting passes on offense and doesn't box out. And you are correct the rotation gets tougher next year as Peck returns and the Big Red have two good-looking prospects.
Can we institute a rule that no one takes a three in the first ten seconds of the shot clock? Just that would lower my blood pressure.
My guess is that every league opponent will shadow Ferry and essentially take him out of the game. On the other hand, I would sag way off Miller and let him take as many threes as he wants (leaving Cornell's best rebounder 20 feet from the basket). Open threes are like high heat to Shonn, he can't hit 'em but he can't lay off 'em.
Edited by mountainred on 01-16-12 06:12 PM. Reason for edit: "can't" is an important word.
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mountainred
Masters Student
Posts: 513
Age: 57
Loc: Charleston, WV
Reg: 04-11-10
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Re: 1-1 (but progress, I think)
01-16-12 06:33 PM - Post#117356
In response to mrjames
Cornell's issues still stem from not being able to control the paint. I don't know if the incoming frosh will have the instant impact that most Cornell fans are hoping for - there aren't a lot of bigs that have come in and really dominated, so I tend to downplay potential help in that department.
The Big Red just sends way too many people to the line, allows opponents to score inside too easily and and can't keep possessions alive on the offensive end. Yes, the threes are frustrating, because they tend to be high variance and streaky, but as mentioned, this team's problems are on the interior. There aren't many good teams that can't do at least an okay job of controlling the paint.
About the only thing I will disagree with there is that the three ball isn't high variance or streaky with this team because that suggets there are nights where it works. Other than Ferry, this team has consistently been unable to hit that shot. It's just a bad bet for anyone but Drew. Cornell's better games (Lehigh, Princeton) don't match with great three point shooting nights.
Since there is nothing that can be done to fix the inside game right now, Cornell's best bet is force tempo. Just eyeballing the numbers, high possession games have been kind to the Big Red. It plays into the factor that is Cornell's strength, turning the other team over.
As for next year, I'm willing to take BRF at his word that Bunce is the best centre prospect in British Columbia. I just wish I knew how that translated into D1 hoops. The minutes are there for the right player and if the frosh can't play right away, this will be an issue next season as well.
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mrjames
Professor
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Re: 1-1 (but progress, I think)
01-16-12 06:54 PM - Post#117359
In response to mountainred
I don't like getting into the guessing game. History doesn't shine favorably on Bunce being an instant impact guy, but that's not a guarantee that he won't be able to step right in.
I really think that forcing tempo against better teams is a bad idea. There is some indication, though, that Cornell plays better at a faster pace, but none of that is SOS-adjusted, so it's really nebulous at best. Much better to stick with the theoretically sound rule of thumb that slower against better and faster against worse is the right way to approach pace (though the gains you get from going faster or slower aren't large enough to make you want to push or slow down if your offense isn't comfortable at that pace).
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mountainred
Masters Student
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Re: 1-1 (but progress, I think)
01-16-12 07:19 PM - Post#117360
In response to mrjames
I'm not making any guesses about Bunce. I haven't seen him play and wouldn't know what to do the info if I had. Just agreeing that Cornell's front court is a problem and that I don't feel real optimstic that there is a solution in the non-freshman.
I wouldn't force tempo with a Big 6 opponent, and it's probably not a good idea with Harvard either (though I'm not sure what would work there). With the rest of the league, and that's all we have left, why not? It takes Columbia, Dartmouth and Princeton out of their comfort zone and I think/hope Cornell is better than Brown. I feel like it is picking your poison with Yale, but based on the match-ups slowing the tempo seems like a plan for getting killed inside. Finally, I know this is not as math-based as you (or I) would like, but the Red just look better and more comfortable in a transition game.
Thanks for responding Mike. I was hoping to some discussion going on this team.
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mrjames
Professor
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Re: 1-1 (but progress, I think)
01-16-12 08:16 PM - Post#117362
In response to mountainred
Agreed - I'd love to see more folks talk Cornell here, but I know CBB has the discussion over at his site (safe from the trolling Penn fans!).
At the end of the day, the mathematical gains from gaming tempo are nowhere near large enough to make sense if you're better at a different tempo, so I agree, if the Big Red are a better run-and-gun team and tend to get stagnant in a slow, half-court game, then by all means, run and gun.
I get the sense that the rest of the season for Cornell is going to be a bunch of surprising performances, both on the good and bad end of things. This team is built to be high variance and nothing I've seen thus far makes me think that will change over the final 12 games.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
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01-17-12 01:08 AM - Post#117375
In response to mrjames
Penn fan here so sorry in advance for butting in but did want to say I was impressed by Miller, Cancer, and Cherry. Miller looks like rookie of the year. Cancer needs to learn when to slow down and needs to spend the summer shooting jumpers but can't teach that kind of speed. Cherry looks smooth and a good potential defender. 2 years from now the league could be stacked.
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mountainred
Masters Student
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Reg: 04-11-10
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01-17-12 01:17 PM - Post#117409
In response to Mike Porter
No need to be sorry Mike P., I re-started posting on this board to hear from non-Cornell fans. I'm glad that my thoughts on the frosh aren't overly inflated by my red-tinted glasses.
Mike J, it's just a hypothosis based on watching the team. I think they would be more efficient if they played a style that highlighted their strengths and hid a few of their weaknesses. Could be dead wrong, but I'm pretty sure the high-tempo style is what Courtney envisions long-term so we may see if it works.
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mrjames
Professor
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Loc: Montclair, NJ
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01-17-12 02:14 PM - Post#117418
In response to mountainred
I think Miller has a decent case for ROY, but at the moment, the leader for me is Gabas Maldunas. Replacement-level performance at ridiculous usage rates is hard to find out of a freshman or for any player on Dartmouth. Much has been asked of Maldunas, and he's managed to stay afloat.
Given that only Miller and Maldunas are both getting major minutes and throwing up high usage rates, it's probably down to those two for the ROY, unless some team really changes its rotation for the Ivy stretch.
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mountainred
Masters Student
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Age: 57
Loc: Charleston, WV
Reg: 04-11-10
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01-17-12 03:08 PM - Post#117426
In response to mrjames
I'm biased and admittedly haven't seen Maldunas, but I would give a slight nod to Miller at this point. Looking at their stats over at Bballstate, there really isn't much of a difference. Miller was better in his Ivy debut, which is why I give him the nod, but that's a tiny sample size. Both players have time to make their case in league play -- as it should be.
Only six frosh are averaging more than 20 minutes per game in the league. Maldunas, Brooks and Golden for Dartmouth, Rosenberg for Columbia and Miller and Cancer for Cornell. I wish I was more positive that was a good thing for my guys.
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mrjames
Professor
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01-17-12 03:21 PM - Post#117429
In response to mountainred
Cancer needs a ton of work. He can't shoot, and he turns the ball over way too much. There are some interesting tools there, but right now, he's hurting the team offensively.
I like Miller. I'd rather have Miller for the next four years than Maldunas. But Gabas' production in the present has been better. Not by much, though. The only thing that would surprise me is if someone other than those two (and maybe Columbia's Rosenberg) took the award.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
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01-17-12 04:11 PM - Post#117439
In response to mrjames
Mike - you do make a great point about Maldunas. I've only seen a little of his play - in the first Harvard game - so I'd like to see more of him before making any judgements. However his numbers do compare very well with Miller and he is taking up a ton of possessions, right?
It wouldn't be a surprise to see a Dartmouth ROY since they offer so much playing time, but like you if I had to pick one for my team I'm taking Miller. He has athleticism only a few in the league can match right now (though certainly that is increasing across the board) and he appears to be pretty skilled. I've seen a few Cornell games online and I've been impressed. I'll be curious to see how Penn's Brooks and Louis compare when they're both back to full health next season.
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mountainred
Masters Student
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Age: 57
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01-17-12 04:27 PM - Post#117444
In response to mrjames
There is no question that Cancer is a work in progress, but an intriguing one. He will make plays that are simply jaw-dropping (both good and bad). The old-timey, cigar-chewing scout side of my brain marvels at his tools.
I'm not saying he is an elite shooter, his FT percentage tells you he isn't, but his main shooting issue is his insistence on driving the lane and putting himself in an impossible position. Over and over. (Yes, Galel, Ian Hummer is still down on the blocks waiting for you.) That's a problem for a PG and I'd be lying if I didn't say I was hoping for more improvement in the decision-making.
Still, it's not like Cornell is sitting a bunch of high-efficiency guards in order to give Cancer PT. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cherry push him for the role of #3 guard. He looks like a better shooter, and I would like to see him with more time to get enough data to make a better evaluation.
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mrjames
Professor
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01-17-12 04:30 PM - Post#117446
In response to Mike Porter
Certainly would take Miller if I were drafting for the next four years. No question.
I guess I tend to favor Dartmouth guys that do anything positive, because there's no real safety net there. If those guys don't produce, there aren't really other options on the bench waiting for PT.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
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Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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1-1 (but progress, I think)
01-17-12 08:38 PM - Post#117463
In response to mountainred
No need to be sorry Mike P., I re-started posting on this board to hear from non-Cornell fans. I'm glad that my thoughts on the frosh aren't overly inflated by my red-tinted glasses.
Good to hear it and great to have more posters on these boards. Keeps it more interesting so please keep posting and feel free to bring friends.
I lurk but don't post on CBB forums and I saw maybe yesterday that someone posted about the possibility of migrating here and posting more (phillysportsfan I think)... and I see today that post no longer exists. I'm assuming that BRF eradicated it?
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: 1-1 (but progress, I think)
01-17-12 09:29 PM - Post#117468
In response to Mike Porter
If I remember correctly, this stems from Jake originally refusing to link to the CBB site, so now CBB edits out any references to this site.
I thought that was over now, and maybe there's another reason that post came down.
I also read the CBB boards but don't post - I used to comment on posts, but don't really do that anymore either. It's my impression that the Cornell fans are happy posting over there without outsiders, so I respect that. I'd love for all Ivy fans to be on one set of boards, but I'm also weird in that I root for the league as well as my team, whereas many folks seem to root for their team and against all others.
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