mountainred
Masters Student
Posts: 510
Age: 57
Loc: Charleston, WV
Reg: 04-11-10
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02-01-12 12:48 PM - Post#118938
Solid game (16 points - 16 boards) helping his team get a big win over a quality opponent (Woodland Hills the #3 big school in western PA). Looks like he is putting up solid numbers against good competition, but the recruting service consensus seems to be "who's he?" Does anybody know anything about him?
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Nolan Cressler 02-03-12 11:06 AM - Post#119139
In response to mountainred
If you go over to the BRF blog you'll find everythinbg you ever wanted to know about him. The issue you raise regarding recruiting services and their lack of recognition can basically be summed up in two words, western Pennsylvania. It's not exactly a hotbed of high school hoops.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-04-12 02:28 PM - Post#119333
In response to Buckeye Quake
Let me get this straight, Pennpal, you just willingly recommended someone visit BRF's site.
You've changed man.
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-04-12 06:08 PM - Post#119373
In response to Jeff2sf
Hey someone had to bring Dr. Frankenstein his bodies didn't they?
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mountainred
Masters Student
Posts: 510
Age: 57
Loc: Charleston, WV
Reg: 04-11-10
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Nolan Cressler 02-05-12 05:16 PM - Post#119529
In response to Buckeye Quake
At the risk of turning another Cornell post into a discussion about BRF, I do read his blog and saw that Cressler is the "steal" of the Ivy recruiting year. I hope you understand that I'm looking for other sources.
Pittsburgh isn't exactly NYC or even Indiana, but neither is Cleveland and Miller looks like he is for real. Of course, the services knew of Shonn. I guess the message is temper expectations that Nolan will be more than "generic Ivy League guard."
Edited by mountainred on 02-05-12 05:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-06-12 11:37 AM - Post#119583
In response to mountainred
Recruits get missed - think about Marin Kukoc, the son of an NBA player in the Chicago-land area. How did ESPN not see him play? But somehow they didn't (maybe he was in Europe during AAU seasons?).
It happens. It's unlikely you got the POY or even ROY but you might have got a real contributor, more than just generic.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-06-12 03:15 PM - Post#119605
In response to Jeff2sf
BTW, I assume that BRF is censoring the Lin/NBA comment thread, right? It's robbing me of some much needed hilarity for my day.
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pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts: 2470
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-06-12 04:09 PM - Post#119611
In response to mrjames
Hilarity? I dunno. Breaking out the "Lin's only in the NBA because he's Chinese" bit is one of the few times he's gone from nuts to offensive; it really does cross the line.
Anyway.
Jeff's right in that you can't take a lack of scouting service coverage as a knock on a kid. Conversely, though, you don't want to fall into the trap (I think this was on the Princeton or Columbia board) of seeing some YouTube footage and deciding that a recruit has NBA-level talent. The vast majority of us on these boards see few if any recruits until their first college game. Except in rare cases, to anoint anyone the anything of a class is just darts blindfolded.
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mountainred
Masters Student
Posts: 510
Age: 57
Loc: Charleston, WV
Reg: 04-11-10
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02-07-12 03:32 PM - Post#119671
In response to Jeff2sf
I will take contributor. If he has a nice outside shot there is a possible role for him immediately as Cornell doesn't have a pure shooter returning. I was just wondering if anyone had any intel on him.
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mountainred
Masters Student
Posts: 510
Age: 57
Loc: Charleston, WV
Reg: 04-11-10
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02-07-12 03:38 PM - Post#119672
In response to pennhoops
As for Lin, I basically don't care -- but that's because I basically don't care about the NBA in general. This Cornellian bears him no ill will and hopes he has a nice career. But I watch too much sports as it is and the NBA is on the other side of my interest line.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3765
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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02-07-12 03:56 PM - Post#119673
In response to mountainred
As for Lin, I basically don't care -- but that's because I basically don't care about the NBA in general. This Cornellian bears him no ill will and hopes he has a nice career. But I watch too much sports as it is and the NBA is on the other side of my interest line.
My feelings exactly. I also question the sentiment being expressed here that Lin's success (assuming it holds up) is somehow "good for the league." It's possible that it's good for Harvard, but I really can't see how it benefits your alma mater or mine.
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pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts: 2470
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-07-12 04:16 PM - Post#119676
In response to mountainred
As for Lin, I basically don't care -- but that's because I basically don't care about the NBA in general. This Cornellian bears him no ill will and hopes he has a nice career. But I watch too much sports as it is and the NBA is on the other side of my interest line.
I'd have to say I'm ambivalent too but what isn't acceptable is saying he's only in the league because he's Asian. I could care less about the Knicks but BRF's just far out of line here and it is necessary to point it out.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-07-12 05:55 PM - Post#119683
In response to Silver Maple
It's possible that it's good for Harvard, but I really can't see how it benefits your alma mater or mine.
I strongly disagree with this. The Ivy League has a perception issue. Anything that starts to chip away at that issue is positive for all teams.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 6997
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-07-12 06:18 PM - Post#119686
In response to pennhoops
As for Lin, I basically don't care -- but that's because I basically don't care about the NBA in general. This Cornellian bears him no ill will and hopes he has a nice career. But I watch too much sports as it is and the NBA is on the other side of my interest line.
I'd have to say I'm ambivalent too but what isn't acceptable is saying he's only in the league because he's Asian. I could care less about the Knicks but BRF's just far out of line here and it is necessary to point it out.
I'm shocked, shocked to discover that besides being a liar and a censor BRF is also a racist.
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Penn94
PhD Student
Posts: 1461
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-07-12 06:20 PM - Post#119687
In response to mrjames
It's possible that it's good for Harvard, but I really can't see how it benefits your alma mater or mine.
I strongly disagree with this. The Ivy League has a perception issue. Anything that starts to chip away at that issue is positive for all teams.
Respectfully disagree. As great as Lin's last week has been, three Penn players had (as of now) better NBA careers than Lin in the 90s, Matt, Jerome and Ira Bowman. Nothing they did chipped away at the Ivy's perception issue, and Maloney's playoff series vs. the Sonics was a lot more high profile than what Lin is doing now.
I like Lin and wish him the best. I think BRF's comments are, as usual, deplorable, this time with a racist tinge. But I don't think this will help the league at all.
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mountainred
Masters Student
Posts: 510
Age: 57
Loc: Charleston, WV
Reg: 04-11-10
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02-07-12 07:01 PM - Post#119688
In response to Penn94
It's possible that it's good for Harvard, but I really can't see how it benefits your alma mater or mine.
I strongly disagree with this. The Ivy League has a perception issue. Anything that starts to chip away at that issue is positive for all teams.
Respectfully disagree. As great as Lin's last week has been, three Penn players had (as of now) better NBA careers than Lin in the 90s, Matt, Jerome and Ira Bowman. Nothing they did chipped away at the Ivy's perception issue, and Maloney's playoff series vs. the Sonics was a lot more high profile than what Lin is doing now.
I like Lin and wish him the best. I think BRF's comments are, as usual, deplorable, this time with a racist tinge. But I don't think this will help the league at all.
I have to vote with Penn94 here. I remember Chris Dudley having a very respectable NBA career, free throws aside, but it didn't do anything for the league's rep in the 90's. Same thing with Ron Darling and Ivy baseball. Kevin Boothe's super bowl ring isn't going to make 5 star lineman choose Cornell. "Ivy League" is just too well-established as an academic/non-athletic brand to change. Amaker may be able to use it to help Harvard, but that's it.
That said, maybe I don't wish Lin too much success...
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-07-12 09:41 PM - Post#119696
In response to Penn94
Maloney's playoff series vs. the Sonics was a lot more high profile than what Lin is doing now.
That was in my basketball sweet spot, and I have to disagree.
At the end of the day - the world is different now. Social media/blogs/etc are crafting narratives that have a much broader audience.
We now have more recruiting info than we ever have and those recruits have more exposure to how schools and leagues are perceived than ever.
This starts with the players and those players can now be deluged with narratives that never would have made it to them in the past. Everything is amplified now. Everyone who has said that Amaker would only do something for Harvard has had to face the reality that these last two years have been the strongest leagues top-to-bottom since the 1970s.
Our league is getting publicity that it rarely got in the past more frequently than it ever has. It's just a different age. The tide is rising. And it's carrying all boats.
(Except Dartmouth's).
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mountainred
Masters Student
Posts: 510
Age: 57
Loc: Charleston, WV
Reg: 04-11-10
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02-07-12 10:48 PM - Post#119702
In response to mrjames
No argument the league is getting better, but the credit belongs to revised/improved financial aid policies not Tommy Amaker, Jeremy Lin, Cornell's sweet sixteen run or anything else of that ilk. The quality of athlete in all sports is getting better. Didn't four Ivy teams spend time at #1 in the nation last year (Cornell in wrestling, Yale in hockey at least)? There is a whole strata of kids who are essentially getting scholarships in the form of financial aid to play Ivy League sports who previously had to pass to take a scholarship. You can't credit improved play in Ivy hoops for the across the board improvement in all sports -- I seriously doubt the 16 year old blueliner from Vancouver who Cornell, Harvard and Yale are recruiting is giving a lot of thought to Jeremy Lin's play the Knicks when deciding to go Ivy or to North Dakota. He is considering that all of them are now essentially free and that an Ivy degree has benefits (justly or unjustly) that degrees from many other schools don't have.
There is a lot information out there, but we are talking about eight of the best known universities in the world. It's not like Penn and Princeton were flying under the radar for decades. Our brands are deeply ingrained.
I'm not saying an improved league doesn't help at the margins, but I don't think correlation establishes causation here.
But who knows, I could be dead wrong.
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Penn94
PhD Student
Posts: 1461
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-07-12 11:24 PM - Post#119707
In response to mrjames
Maloney's playoff series vs. the Sonics was a lot more high profile than what Lin is doing now.
That was in my basketball sweet spot, and I have to disagree.
At the end of the day - the world is different now. Social media/blogs/etc are crafting narratives that have a much broader audience.
We now have more recruiting info than we ever have and those recruits have more exposure to how schools and leagues are perceived than ever.
This starts with the players and those players can now be deluged with narratives that never would have made it to them in the past. Everything is amplified now. Everyone who has said that Amaker would only do something for Harvard has had to face the reality that these last two years have been the strongest leagues top-to-bottom since the 1970s.
Our league is getting publicity that it rarely got in the past more frequently than it ever has. It's just a different age. The tide is rising. And it's carrying all boats.
(Except Dartmouth's).
Social media revolution aside, Lin has had TWO terrific games with the Knicks. I'm not saying he needs to have a Maloney-ish playoff series to get more high profile than Matt's performance back in the late 90s, but at the very least it needs to last more than a week before it's more high profile.
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Howard Gensler
Postdoc
Posts: 4141
Reg: 11-21-04
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Nolan Cressler 02-08-12 12:13 AM - Post#119708
In response to Penn94
It is possible that although the League is better because of Harvard, it's not Harvard that's raising the other boats. It's that the League is better because Harvard has become a big net-positive instead of a big net-negative.
In 2005, when the League was ranked 20th, Harvard was 223 with a Pomeroy of .3083. In 2007, when the League was 21st, Harvard was 262 with a .2084. If you switch that Harvard team with this year's (No. 37 with a .8467), the League is only marginally worse. But another thing happened since 2007, No. 271 Princeton became Princeton again.
I would argue that the League is better these past two years for a few reasons:
1) Harvard, a longtime doormat has become a power.
2) Princeton, a longtime League flotation device, is again fielding Princeton-level Top 150-caliber teams, but not yet the level teams from before the fall.
3) Penn, the other longtime League flotation device, is again fielding a Top-150 caliber team, after a few years in the wilderness. Again, not the pre-fall caliber but not the 300-level team of two years ago.
4) Cornell still has some residual recruiting advantages from its own Sweet 16 run.
5) Yale's top two players, Mangano and Wilhite are seniors.
6) Columbia is getting a new coach bounce just as Jones' last recruiting classes are becoming upperclassmen.
2007 League (No. 21)/2012 League (No. 15)/(Change)
Penn 105 .6849 / 125 .6085 (-20)
Yale 191 .3777 / 180 .4764 (+11)
Cornell 196 .3708 / 182 .4723 (+14)
Columbia 223 .2983 / 176 .4836 (+47)
Brown 234 .2698 / 306 .1410 (-72)
Harvard 262 .2084 / 37 .8467 (+225)
Princeton 271 .1868 / 132 .5891 (+139)
Dartmouth 298 .1376 / 294 .1859 (+4)
Gee, why's the League so much better? Rising tide, or one classic boat making a comeback and one sleek, new boat leaving others in its wake?
Edited by Howard Gensler on 02-08-12 12:14 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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