Bruno
Masters Student
Posts: 690
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
|
02-19-12 09:34 PM - Post#121438
Didn't see the Dartmouth game, but I was really hoping we woudn't be the team that would prevent Dartmouth from going oh-for the league.
I've been saying all along that I want to see how Agel does with his squad next year, but if he finishes with a 1-win season, I'm not sure that the timing of a new AD is going to work in his favor. A new person at the helm may just want to clean house some, and the team that lost 13 of 14 league games might look like an easy place to start.
Thoughts?
| LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh) |
|
juco24
Freshman
Posts: 83
Age: 34
Reg: 01-17-12
|
02-20-12 12:52 PM - Post#121510
In response to Bruno
From what I've seen in McGonagil and McCarthy and what I've heard about Maia and Halpern (and Kukemensah) I think Brown will be immediately better next year so I don't think Brown/Agel is at risk for a 1-win season next year. And the Dart game probably wasn't as bad a loss as you think, as the green are getting better. They were actually favored by 5 to win that game and are ranked 15 - 20 places ahead of Brown on kenpom.com... McGonagil is so tough, I see a pretty dramatic reversal of fortune for Brown next year...
|
juco24
Freshman
Posts: 83
Age: 34
Reg: 01-17-12
|
02-20-12 12:58 PM - Post#121511
In response to juco24
I knew I'd get those spellings wrong: Kuakumensah and McGonagill
|
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 2147
Reg: 11-23-04
|
02-20-12 02:02 PM - Post#121529
In response to juco24
Close enough, juko. I don't think brown's recruiting is done for the year.
|
juco24
Freshman
Posts: 83
Age: 34
Reg: 01-17-12
|
02-20-12 03:14 PM - Post#121543
In response to Old Bear
Old Bear, while I have you...
How would you rate the Brown frosh this year?
Kuakumensah was rated an 80, which I thought was impressive for an Ivy (it seems to me that only Harv and Penn are getting 80+'s)...
I looked at last year's Brown recruiting on ESPN and found:
Christian Gore 83
Joe Sharkey 79
Jon Schmidt 40
I've heard of these guys, but it doesn't sound like they are playing a ton... Are they hurt? Are they good? (Particularly curious about Gore who is rated even higher than Kuakumensah)
I just can't believe all the bad luck Brown has had this year.
|
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 2147
Reg: 11-23-04
|
02-20-12 03:30 PM - Post#121547
In response to juco24
Gore went home to Texas, Sharkey had hip surgery, out for the year, Schmidt is playing. Sharkey could be a big help at PG, Schmidt will help, as will Yiljip, but they're a year or two away.
|
TheLine
PhD Student
Posts: 1244
Age: 49
Reg: 07-07-09
|
02-20-12 05:51 PM - Post#121579
In response to Old Bear
How is Maia doing? I gotta check up on our Ivy brasiliero.
And I'm still upset with the NCAA for not understanding that the South American school year does not coincide with the North American one.
|
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 2147
Reg: 11-23-04
|
02-20-12 06:09 PM - Post#121584
In response to TheLine
Maia is doing great, practicing with the team every day, he will make a major impact nest year.
|
Brown50
Junior
Posts: 224
Reg: 11-28-04
|
02-20-12 08:51 PM - Post#121603
In response to Old Bear
Glad to hear that Jesse is still recruiting for this Fall's team.
We need more players to prevent the present problem of not enough guys to practice when we go down with injuries.
Please keep us posted, Old Bear.
|
Bear34
Freshman
Posts: 10
Age: 34
Reg: 02-22-12
|
 Re: Agel / AD
02-22-12 11:09 AM - Post#121775
In response to Bruno
I would agree that changes are needed, sad to see where the program is currently.
I'm tired of hearing that if this or that happened, this team would be better, let's take some accountability.
I take a lot of pride in Brown and unless I missed something, we just lost to Dartmouth, if you can't win that game with the kids you have hurt or not, then you shouldn't be there. That game speaks directly to your coaching plain and simple. So, let's move on from this next year garbage, because when I was playing if i underperformed hurt or not, I would be sittining.
Shouldnt the same be applied to coaching? Or does that not apply to Brown? Because we currently accept mediocrity or even worse last place.
|
juco24
Freshman
Posts: 83
Age: 34
Reg: 01-17-12
|
02-22-12 01:04 PM - Post#121782
In response to Bear34
Below is just my opinion, Bear34. I think it does represent a different viewpoint than yours, but I'm really not trying to criticize you and I respect you / your opinion...
--
Of the 16 guys on Brown's roster, there have been some games where only 1/2 of them have dressed! Correct me if I'm wrong, Old Bear, but I think they typically have just 9 guys dressed, and of the 7 that aren't dressing are some of the programs' best players.
I hope for the sake of the kids on the team, and the entire Brown program, that the majority of the Brown family can stay positive and accept reality (not mediocrity) that life isn't fair--that sometimes bad luck/circumstances beyond control lead to less than desirable outcomes--that negativity is counterproductive as it inhibits learning, progress, and growth--that you need to stick together.
A lot can be learned from adversity, but only when you don't just throw your hands up and cry for a change when the going gets tough. The healthiest programs have fans/supporters who are like good teammates--yes, they will be demanding of one another, but also realistic, and they will have each other's back and will do anything for one another no matter what.
I think when evaluating a program you have to look at it in a holistic way, rather than just this moment or that moment--otherwise there would be a lot of artificial peaks and valleys and you wouldn't have the context necessary for making a fair and accurate assessment. If I evaluated my investments on a daily basis I'd go insane. Sure I have some disappointing days, weeks, months, quarters, years, but over the long-term I am achieving my long-term financial goals.
Sports programs are wonderful things for the institutions they represent, the fans, and the student athletes. Winning is SO important, and the goal and effort set forth to win together is what unites us as a team/family, but when winning becomes your ONLY reason to be than I think you are entering dangerous territory.
Bear34, as a Brown fan I rooted for you and all your teammates b/c you were on "my team," trying to win for the institution I cared about. (Obviously I wasn't on the team but) we rallied behind that common goal of winning... When we achieved a win it was not b/c we were stone cold killers/mercenaries cared only about the W, it was b/c we connected as human beings and fought with/for one another. In other words, I didn't stop caring about you when you lost or made a mistake or graduated and were no longer on the team.
Especially when wins are scarce, I think we have to celebrate the other positive aspects any given program yields, including/especially the people. I think we have to at least try to avoid negativity.
|
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 2147
Reg: 11-23-04
|
02-22-12 06:18 PM - Post#121796
In response to juco24
Well stated, Juco.
|
Brown50
Junior
Posts: 224
Reg: 11-28-04
|
02-22-12 09:08 PM - Post#121802
In response to Old Bear
Lets avoid negativity as I feel that it would turn offprospective recruits who read these sites. (If I were a FB player and read all the many negative comments by Yale posters on Voy, that's the last place I'd go).
|
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 2726
Reg: 11-22-04
|
02-22-12 11:26 PM - Post#121812
In response to Brown50
do you really think it's going to be negative comments and not a 1-13 record that's going to scare off potential recruits? Really?
|
Bear34
Freshman
Posts: 10
Age: 34
Reg: 02-22-12
|
02-23-12 12:13 AM - Post#121815
In response to juco24
When and who did you play for? Just so I know how to respond. I don't care if you criticize me, it's just a board
|
Bear34
Freshman
Posts: 10
Age: 34
Reg: 02-22-12
|
02-23-12 12:28 AM - Post#121817
In response to Old Bear
Please explain why this is well stated? If this were the attitude, why do we even play? We should just practice and forfeit the games.
|
juco24
Freshman
Posts: 83
Age: 34
Reg: 01-17-12
|
02-23-12 11:43 AM - Post#121831
In response to Bear34
I agree that we play to win the game. But if that's the end all be all than everyone in sports will live in a perpetual disappointment that precludes us from appreciating and taking advantage of all the other benefits associated with athletics--the joy and life lessons that come with competition; the satisfaction of leaving it all out there, of pushing and learning your limits; the self-reflection that comes with each triumph and failure (and that leads us to a better understanding of ourselves and our strengths/weaknesses); the mentoring, encouragement, and brotherhood of coaches and teammates; and the lifelong friendships that are possible through toeing the line together.
To answer your question, why do we even play if winning isn't everything? I would say, we do play to win. But not for the win as an end in itself. Our 100% efforts to win together help us develop as human beings, bring out the best in us, and--so long as we value and acknowledge our teammates for their character (and not just for their talent or lack thereof a.k.a. how much or little they can help us win)--we forge a lifelong bond.
I played hoops and baseball through college, and I wanted to win as much as anyone and was always very disappointed after a loss. But with my athletic career behind me, I don't go online to the archives and look at how many W's vs. L's my teams earned. My teams were pretty good and we had some big wins, but we don't harp on that when we get together, and our win-loss record is not what shaped who we graduated to become. Unless you're a pro, the only thing you can really take with you are the experiences, lessons, and relationships--none of which come from a win, but from trying to win together.
It sounds like the end all be all of your hoop experience at Brown was W's. What would you have done if your teams weren't good? Would you have quit (b/c what’s the point if we don’t win)? Would you have started flinging blame around at your teammates and coaches? Would you not have had any fun? Would you not have benefited at all?
You were obviously born a good athlete... If you have kids, what if they don't take after you athletically--will it still be all about winning? Will you only let them play if they are good? If winning is the end all be all, you are setting the table for 1) inevitable disappointment and for 2) not realizing the most important benefits of sports--the real things that you can take away and actually apply to and benefit from for the rest of your life.
I really do believe that 100% emphasis on winning has damaging effects on amateur athletes and athletics through college. And I don't think it leads to sustained success.
If this post perpetuates additional negativity, I will pull the plug on myself b/c that is the opposite of what I'd set out to accomplish...
|
Bear34
Freshman
Posts: 10
Age: 34
Reg: 02-22-12
|
02-23-12 02:10 PM - Post#121840
In response to juco24
Like I said, when and where did you play, so I can answer, that way I can explain why change is needed, since brown is an investment as you explained.
|
juco24
Freshman
Posts: 83
Age: 34
Reg: 01-17-12
|
02-23-12 04:04 PM - Post#121852
In response to Bear34
I'm curious as to how when and where I played relates to your arguments against the opinions I've expressed on amateur/collegiate athletics...
Which of my viewpoints do you not agree with:
1) There is more to sports than winning and it's sad if you can't embrace any of these positive, life-changing aspects.
2) For individuals and teams to learn and grow it's important to stay positive, especially in times of adversity.
3) Sometimes bad luck beyond anyone's control can lead to a worse than expected record.
I played at Middlebury from '97 - '01, against your former (excellent) coach, Glen Miller, who was at Conn Coll my freshman and sophomore years.
|
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 2147
Reg: 11-23-04
|
02-23-12 04:26 PM - Post#121853
In response to juco24
Middlebury has had an admirable BB history and it's current team is no exception.
|
