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Username Post: Mike Martin? Seriously?        (Topic#13569)
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4564

Loc: Jersey City, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Mike Martin? Seriously?
06-04-12 09:28 AM - Post#129692    
    In response to Bruno

FWIW, I think it was an excellent hire.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 2740

Age: 53
Reg: 07-07-09
Re: Mike Martin? Seriously?
06-04-12 09:50 AM - Post#129693    
    In response to gokinsmen

  • gokinsmen Said:
The Bears really could have used a Big Splash Hire (relatively speaking) to excite recruits, students and alums.


And who might that have been? Yes, I understand you are hedging with that "relatively speaking" parenthetical but who on Brown's list was going to be a big splash? Brown's search felt a lot like the recent ones that Cornell and Columbia just went through. Neither Cornell nor Columbia were able to hire a big splash though I bet both wanted one. I can think of one big splash hire in the entire league the past 30 years - Tommy Amaker. I'm not sure any team other than Harvard could have hired a coach of Amaker's stature. I could be wrong but don't think so.

  • gokinsmen Said:
And considering Brown is primed for a big leap forward based on returning talent alone (not to mention graduation losses to other teams), this was a real golden opportunity to do that.


How do you define big leap? Harvard returns a deep and talented roster. Princeton has the best player in the league and a pretty good supporting cast. Columbia's returning talent is better than Brown's (I may be biased saying that but don't think so).

  • gokinsmen Said:
But Hayes either failed or neglected to take advantage. Instead he ended up with a coach he could have gotten even in less-than-ideal circumstances.

If Hayes thinks Martin is a genius, a wunderkind, a future star coach...then it's a great choice. Otherwise I'd want to see a more experienced or higher-profile candidate get the nod.


I think Hayes looked over his choices after the interview process and felt Martin had the greatest upside. My opinion based on real life experience is that more mistakes are made by settling on the safer, more experienced candidate than selecting a talented but less experienced candidate who can be a star.

That isn't to say Martin was the best candidate. I don't know, I wasn't in the room. I am saying that Martin might have been a reasonable decision if he had a very strong interview and was able to articulate a vision for the program that was better than anyone else's.


 
gokinsmen 
Postdoc
Posts: 2524

Reg: 02-06-10
Mike Martin? Seriously?
06-04-12 07:50 PM - Post#129713    
    In response to TheLine

1. Al Skinner (big name/redemption). Mike Maker (experience/acclaim). Skinner was reportedly in the mix. Maker wasn't explicitly mentioned, but I imagine he's interested (interviewed for Princeton).

2. 4-win improvement. Brown went 2-12 without its 2nd best player (Halpern) in the most competitive Ivy League on record (13th in RPI). Next year Halpern comes back with Maia finally eligible and Albrecht a year more experienced. On balance, the league should be no better (and quite possibly weaker) than last year.

3. Just as Ivies are not like other D-I programs, Brown is not like other Ivies (as I explained before). Penn and Princeton can play it safe...Brown should have swung for the fences.

"But what if, say, Al Skinner decided he didn't want the job?" Then you MAKE him want the job. You sell him on the opportunity, pulling out all the stops. Using Tommy Amaker as a shining example. Any AD can pick a name off a list. A good one "gets his man."

 
jst4245 
Freshman
Posts: 49

Age: 43
Reg: 05-23-12
Re: Mike Martin? Seriously?
06-05-12 10:42 AM - Post#129734    
    In response to gokinsmen

I was tempted to start a post - "Al Skinner? Seriously?. What in the world makes you think Al Skinner would be a good hire at BROWN? Is it his Flex Offense of posting guards? Or maybe it was his impeccable work ethic at BC his last few years that revolved around a 4 hour work day? I am truly amazed that anyone would think Skinner would have been a good hire at Brown. The guy obviously had some success at BC, but that pairing - square peg, round hole.

Edited by jst4245 on 06-05-12 11:06 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
section110 
Masters Student
Posts: 692

Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Mike Martin? Seriously?
06-05-12 01:47 PM - Post#129742    
    In response to gokinsmen

How does Brown do anything but pop out or strike out if it swings for the fences. It can't match what H/Y/P are doing with financial aid. It has no significant recent success or any substantial tradition.

Brown's best shot at success is to find a young gem in the making and get some success before a major grabs him.

I agree that with the big men who will join the roster next year an opportunity is there for potentially dramatic improvement.

I also agree that Al Skinner may be a swing for the fences; but he's an infield pop up.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3222

Reg: 11-23-04
06-05-12 08:01 PM - Post#129753    
    In response to section110

While I love the fact that Brown is getting some ink on these boards, I starting to get tired of this thread. It's over, Martin is the coach. It's my own view that Skinner would have been a disaster. Who thinks that Skinner (or Bob Walsh, for that matter) have a clue about what it takes to recruit in the Ivy League?
I'm pleased that so many of the cognoscenti here believe Brown will be a second div. team next year. I will do my best to refrain from "I told you so's, but I don't think I will be able to control myself.


 
Brown50 
Junior
Posts: 268

Reg: 11-28-04
06-05-12 08:19 PM - Post#129754    
    In response to Old Bear

Amen , Old Bear. Let's get on with a new subject and stop beating a dead horse!

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 2740

Age: 53
Reg: 07-07-09
06-06-12 06:25 AM - Post#129765    
    In response to Old Bear

OB, Agel just spent the past few years Millering your program and you expect the new guy to compete for the title in Year 1? You sure have tough standards.


 
Full Bear 
Pre-Frosh
Posts: 4

Age: 44
Reg: 06-01-12
06-06-12 07:12 AM - Post#129767    
    In response to Old Bear

Agreed Old Bear.

My last word on this is that Skinner would have been retread looking for a payday, but Walsh would have been a home run. He can flat out coach. I saw him work camps when he was at PC and have followed his career at RIC, and the guy could take us to a whole new level. He made RIC relevant! Unfortunately, we won't get the chance to see it happen. We will still be Brown, 2nd tier Ivy. What precludes someone who has coached at other levels from succeeding in our league. Only Martin can get a kid to go to Brown?

BTW, how much influence did Martin's boys on the committee and the big money alumni have on this selection? Cordischi hit on that when he released the initial 9 names, and said Martin had a guy on the committee. Surprised nobody on that committee stepped up for TJ.

I too am done with this thread. And I too will refrain from the "I told you so" when we are looking for a new coach in two-three years.

 
Redfish 
Masters Student
Posts: 764
Redfish
Loc: under a bridge in Phoenix...
Reg: 11-26-04
07-05-12 12:19 AM - Post#130461    
    In response to Full Bear

By that time Gary Williams would have been away from the game too long.

 
Bearswin 
Freshman
Posts: 61

Reg: 01-06-14
02-18-17 01:00 AM - Post#222244    
    In response to Redfish

Brown fans - How are you feeling about this choice right now.
I think the original poster was right on - and that was 5 years ago.

Only team that gets worse each year as the season progresses.
Has some infatuation with small line ups. IT IS NOT WORKING. You have 6'7, 6'8' 6'9 and 6'11 on the bench. Why are they not improving? Worst defensive team I have ever seen. Can't guard inside, can't guard on the perimeter. Relatively unknown players continue to go off for career highs. No one values the basketball - multiple turnovers are accepted without any repercussion.
Strong players transfer or flat out quit the team.

When does lacrosse start?




 
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