Brown50
Junior
Posts: 222
Reg: 11-28-04
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07-16-12 09:32 PM - Post#130716
When the recruiting sites list "Offers", does that mean that Brown later, if it got a commit from a supposedly better player , could not withdraw the offer ?
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pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts: 2118
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-17-12 07:43 AM - Post#130719
In response to Brown50
No. That's what's tricky and somewhat misleading about the Ivies and recruiting site talk of "offers" and "commitments." Essentially, nothing is binding about an Ivy commitment until the kid has enrolled. Ivies aren't part of the letter of intent (LOI) system that enforces commitments. The only plug is that, in theory, other schools will stop recruiting a player once he's made a public commitment. But if Player X were to commit to Brown in September but realize, in January, that he could probably grab a Big East scholarship, he could back out of the Brown commitment.
With all that said, I can't recall more than one or two instances of that happening. Players will be let out of their commitments because of problems with grades or financial aid with a little more frequency.
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Brown50
Junior
Posts: 222
Reg: 11-28-04
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07-17-12 08:12 AM - Post#130720
In response to pennhoops
I can understand a kid changing his mind but is it ethical for Brown to say we did ask you to come to Brown but we feel we now have a better player at your position so our invitation is no longer valid ?
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Silver Maple
PhD Student
Posts: 1976
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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07-17-12 08:36 AM - Post#130721
In response to Brown50
Probably not. Has Brown ever done this? And what, exactly, are we talking about here: withdrawal of a spot on the team, or withdrawal of an offer of admission (and whatever financial aid package goes with it)?
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Brown50
Junior
Posts: 222
Reg: 11-28-04
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07-17-12 08:50 AM - Post#130722
In response to Silver Maple
I'm talking about the latter. What made me ask was the verbal commits site mentioned an offer to Tevon Blackmon, rated a 63 by Scout and one to Graham Woodward who arguably looks to me- video- a better prospect.
Also, I wonder why Mike seems to be ilooking for more guards instead of SF which we are short of.
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pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts: 2118
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-17-12 09:33 AM - Post#130723
In response to Brown50
1. No, not in the same season. Overrecruiting is practically inevitable. If a solid point guard commits in Year 1 and then an All-State point guard decides to go Ivy in Year 2, no coach is going to turn him down out of loyalty to the first guy. This is by no means inimical to the Ivies.
2. What you see listed on the public sites is hardly an accurate or exhaustive picture of real recruiting targets.
2a. I don't think the coaches are paying a lot of attention to the grade Scout give a kid.
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Brown50
Junior
Posts: 222
Reg: 11-28-04
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07-17-12 09:48 AM - Post#130724
In response to pennhoops
Thanks for clearing this up. As a Brown Grad I hate to admit this but this site owes a lot to you Penn guys!
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Howard Gensler
Postdoc
Posts: 3978
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-17-12 11:07 AM - Post#130728
In response to Brown50
I'll go one step further: The Ivies don't really "offer" anyone. They express serious interest in a recruit and then that kid has to apply and get their fin aid read, etc. Since none of these sites pay too close attention to Ivy eccentricities, most of this info is questionable in its accuracy.
In a real world Ivy setting, what's more likely to happen is: Coach tells Player A and his parents he loves him and wants him to come to his school. They get Player A's transcript and and Player A's parents start trying to figure out where they can hide their money. Recruiting service reports school has offered Player A.
Then Player B expresses interest. Player B is much better. The coach calls Player A less than previously and hints that he may have to take the SATs again to gain admission and doesn't fight for the best possible fin aid package. So even though he has "offered" Player A, there's nothing binding at this point, Player A hasn't been accepted, and the coach's interest may be cooling. With the Letter of Intent, Player A may have already signed, thus making it more difficult to recruit Player B.
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mrjames
Postdoc
Posts: 3005
Loc: New York, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-17-12 11:22 AM - Post#130731
In response to Howard Gensler
If there is one thing coaches probably like about the AI, it gives them an excuse to stop recruiting a player they no longer want without having to blame it on skill/interest. They can blame it on "making the numbers work."
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Howard Gensler
Postdoc
Posts: 3978
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-17-12 01:51 PM - Post#130740
In response to mrjames
Agreed.
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Bruno
Masters Student
Posts: 689
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-17-12 10:17 PM - Post#130762
In response to Howard Gensler
Great explanation. This is something I never would have known.
Pretty interesting that the Ivy process and AI can be used in this way then the other conferences can't.
| LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh) |
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Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 2139
Reg: 11-23-04
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07-18-12 01:14 PM - Post#130778
In response to Bruno
Since, little, if any, info the recruiting services have comes from Ivy Coaches, who may have offered what and, to whom, is speculation and hearsay.
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Bears03
Freshman
Posts: 10
Age: 33
Reg: 02-23-12
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07-27-12 12:14 AM - Post#131118
In response to Old Bear
With the amount of annual turnover on Ivy teams, I think any coach could find 1 extra spot on the squad if a top tier player wanted in at the last minute.
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