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Username Post: PBN        (Topic#15214)
puband09 
Masters Student
Posts: 782

Reg: 12-19-09
10-01-13 01:02 AM - Post#153485    

No one here is surprised to see Jon Solomon taking a leave of absence from his site? I hope it's not a bad omen for the program!

 
Albert08 
Masters Student
Posts: 570

Reg: 08-21-10
Re: PBN
10-01-13 11:23 AM - Post#153497    
    In response to puband09

I admit I was surprised. In particular, the comment about the work being "less and less fun" over the past two seasons. Which correlates exactly with the onset of the MH regime. So maybe there's a connection.

For those of us who have had access to the subscription content, it will be harder to get the kind of coverage Jon provided so well. We will have to find other sources.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: PBN
10-01-13 12:15 PM - Post#153501    
    In response to Albert08

I haven't talked to Jon about this, but as someone who has tried to write regularly on league-related topics, I'm in awe of anyone who could do it for 15 years. There are enjoyable parts about following the league closely (watching tons of games, running analytical models, interacting with fellow fans) that still take up tons of time before even searching through google alerts for news you missed and putting finger to keyboard to generate original written content.

Jon, Jake and Andy were mythological characters when I entered the league's journalistic circle in 2002, and I have a ton of respect for what they've all accomplished and what they've done for this league. But I'm not surprised that it would stop being fun at some point. I am surprised that it remained fun as long as it did.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: PBN
10-01-13 11:41 PM - Post#153537    
    In response to Albert08

It took me by surprise, too. But, given the time Jon must have devoted to PBN for, what I have to assume, was very little in total subscription revenue (he would have made a lot more if he had run a Penn site), and the recent addition to his family, it seems understandable that he might have to rearrange his time priorities. But, he gave us Tiger fans a steady diet of accurate and up-to-date information about our favorite team, and for that we are very grateful and we shall miss him. I can only wish him the best.

Jon is at the top of the class of fan/reporters.

Edited by Tiger69 on 10-01-13 11:43 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
umbrellaman 
Masters Student
Posts: 469
umbrellaman
Reg: 11-21-04
10-02-13 05:57 PM - Post#153542    
    In response to Tiger69

I told Jon he deserved a "Mariano Rivera"-like farewell tour because he did this incredible job for so long and he really demonstrated over and over what a classy individual he was. He appreciated the thought, but said he did not want to be presented with a commemorative laptop made of hardwood in Hanover.

My sense is that times change, people change, priorities change. I was surprised that he didn't miss a beat when his child was born, but I have learned myself that the early years are actually easier. I don't think that's the only reason, but it's enough of one.

As it is, all the league games will be streamed on the internet now. So, one door closes and another opens.

 
puband09 
Masters Student
Posts: 782

Reg: 12-19-09
10-03-13 01:00 AM - Post#153546    
    In response to umbrellaman

Well put. I may just subscribe to the web streams this season now.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
10-03-13 07:10 PM - Post#153575    
    In response to puband09

I'll miss Jon's work and presence. He is a class act and did a remarkable job with PBN.

Maybe there was some behind-the-scenes issue with MH, but he was actually a more open interviewee than the very guarded SJ. So I'm more inclined to speculate that the cumulative grind and new horizon's in Jon's life precipitated his decision.

What is the deal with the web streams--should I expect reasonable quality at a decent price? Or are we talking about a fixed low-angle camera set at one end of the court broadcast in low fidelity?

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
PBN
10-03-13 10:08 PM - Post#153593    
    In response to SRP

I'm curious why you guys keep talking about webstreams in relation to Solomon. Was he shooting the games on his iphone and simulcasting? What does one have to do with the other?

Is it simply you had a few bucks earmarked to spend on solomon that you can now spend on watching your team's games?

Edited by Jeff2sf on 10-03-13 10:11 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
puband09 
Masters Student
Posts: 782

Reg: 12-19-09
Re: PBN
10-04-13 05:09 PM - Post#153638    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Let me preface this statement by acknowledging that I am completely oversimplifying Jon's work and contributions for the sake of answering Jeff2sf's question.

In many ways, subscribing to PBN provided readers with coverage that proxied for actually going to every game and watching the team live. Active predominantly in an era where Ivy basketball wasn't nationally televised or streamed, PBN provided subscribers with photographs and detailed game descriptions that created the illusion of having been there. Now that PBN is inactive, I think a lot of people will use the live streams to fill that void.

That said, PBN also offered a lot that live streams can't (analysis, interviews, etc.), and frankly, the type of person who would pay to watch Ivy basketball online would probably have been statistically more likely to subscribe to PBN as well, so I'm kind of drawing a false equivalence here.


 
umbrellaman 
Masters Student
Posts: 469
umbrellaman
Reg: 11-21-04
10-04-13 05:16 PM - Post#153639    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Jeff,

One major part of Jon's site were the game recaps, which were done with an amazing level of detail. These were really useful if you missed the game or only heard it on radio. Another feature was the post-game press conference audio - no guarantees that will be picked up by the webcast, but that is a possibility. The recaps go back to when pbn was a mere email list - and games were not streamed live over the internet.

Obviously, there is more to it now - the recruiting news, the weekly coaches interview, etc. Only the Ivy League games will be streamed. But being able to see all 16 Ivy games mitigates the loss a little bit, and perhaps these games are just the beginning of getting more Ivy basketball content.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
10-04-13 07:43 PM - Post#153647    
    In response to umbrellaman

you guys have not had a stream until this year unless you paid for the opposing team's stream? GTFO

Is your athletic department aware it's 2013?

The internet's on computers now.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
10-04-13 07:43 PM - Post#153648    
    In response to Jeff2sf

ps - thanks for the explanation with respect to the rich, detailed recaps.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
10-04-13 08:27 PM - Post#153650    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Jeff: Those recaps were almost possession by possession, but with narrative threads and lots of little observations of bench reactions, etc., combined with overviews and themes. Then there were the stats and advanced stats for each game. It was pretty impressive stuff that I've never seen anywhere else. Next best thing to being there.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
10-05-13 11:10 AM - Post#153657    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Hi Jeff,

I think that it is time now for you to run along and annoy your fellow Quakers fans.

Ciao.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
10-05-13 04:22 PM - Post#153662    
    In response to Tiger69

oh please, what was so antagonizing? me criticizing your school for not having webstreams? you should be criticizing them yourselves.

i even said thank you for the explanation.

 
umbrellaman 
Masters Student
Posts: 469
umbrellaman
Reg: 11-21-04
10-05-13 04:59 PM - Post#153663    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Jeff,

Princeton has streamed the home games for a few years. The point of the webstreams is not just the 8 additional road games, but the hope that the "Ivy League Digital Netwotk" will ultimately provide a lot of useful content for all of us.

 
puband09 
Masters Student
Posts: 782

Reg: 12-19-09
10-05-13 07:10 PM - Post#153665    
    In response to umbrellaman

The video quality was also really bad. Hopefully better with pooled efforts.

 
Albert08 
Masters Student
Posts: 570

Reg: 08-21-10
10-06-13 10:17 AM - Post#153680    
    In response to puband09

Don't count on it, PU Band. The Ivy Digital Network simply streams the streams of the respective home teams, so there will be a wide spectrum of quality. The Penn Sports Network is really good, with HD quality picture, replays, different camera angles, and professional announcers (homers, for sure), while good old GoPrincetonTigers TV is as bad as ever. Take a look at a stream of the National Champion Field Hockey team - it is absolutely horrendous and unwatchable, worse than last year. So I don't expect the basketball stream to be any better than in past years, which featured a single camera and poor quality video.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
10-06-13 12:32 PM - Post#153681    
    In response to Albert08

It has to be. Men's hoops has mandated standards for all participating teams. I believe those include three cameras, graphics and other standards of production.

Schools are allowed to do what they want outside of football, basketball and hockey.

 
Albert08 
Masters Student
Posts: 570

Reg: 08-21-10
10-06-13 03:14 PM - Post#153686    
    In response to mrjames

That's good to know. Are those mandated standards published somewhere? If so, where?

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 6062

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
10-06-13 04:36 PM - Post#153688    
    In response to Albert08

Might have been in a press release or something. Might also be in the FAQs on the website. Definitely somewhere though.

The standards will meet ESPN3's requirements, in case there is a desire to hand the feed off. If you want a sense of what basketball will be like, take a look at a football feed. That's the best representation of what you'll see come basketball season.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3988

Reg: 11-23-04
10-06-13 06:36 PM - Post#153692    
    In response to mrjames

The Brown football feed was great.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
10-06-13 07:51 PM - Post#153695    
    In response to mrjames

That deserves a cheer. Now I'll just have to worry about the video quality fluctuating on my wobbly DSL.

 
mmp629 
Junior
Posts: 259
mmp629
Reg: 11-22-04
12-16-13 05:03 PM - Post#159460    
    In response to SRP

I miss Jon's take on things. It would have been fabulous to read his report on the Penn State game. He is such a good writer.
Maybe this will just end up being a leave of absence.

 
puband09 
Masters Student
Posts: 782

Reg: 12-19-09
12-16-13 07:07 PM - Post#159475    
    In response to mmp629

What a year to take off from reporting!

I have been a bit surprised to see that he hasn't posted any special reports or essays, like he mentioned he might. This would be a great season for such coverage.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
12-16-13 07:31 PM - Post#159480    
    In response to puband09

Maybe Jon is enjoying this season even more just being a fan and not having to worry about write-ups and interviews. I hope he's enjoying it, at least.

 
Albert08 
Masters Student
Posts: 570

Reg: 08-21-10
Re: PBN
12-17-13 10:48 AM - Post#159538    
    In response to puband09

  • puband09 Said:
No one here is surprised to see Jon Solomon taking a leave of absence from his site? I hope it's not a bad omen for the program!



This is PU Band's post that began this thread, on October 1. His hope seems to have been realized - so far. Maybe not being subject to Jon's exhaustive (and wonderful) coverage was too stressful for the Tigers, and its absence has liberated the Tigers this season.

(I sometimes wonder if the Penn team reads the Penn posters' threads. If so, that could have an adverse effect on their performance. I read them, and though it's sometimes entertaining to do so, most of the time it gets so tedious so quickly. )

Edited by Albert08 on 12-17-13 10:51 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32680

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: PBN
12-17-13 11:43 AM - Post#159540    
    In response to Albert08

While far smaller in number, perhaps you should look back at the vitriol on your board during the Scott era. It's tiresome when you're not engaged with the issue---emotional when you are.

Enjoy your success. I'll still root for you over Harvard even though you guys have been making it tough lately.

 
Kit 
Senior
Posts: 380

Loc: Central Massachusetts
Reg: 11-29-04
Re: PBN
12-19-13 01:08 AM - Post#159618    
    In response to palestra38

P38-

And I'll root for you guys when you play Harvard.

-- Kit


 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: PBN
12-19-13 05:49 PM - Post#159646    
    In response to Albert08

then don't read them, albert. You guys abandoned your team in droves during the Scott seasons. It's not like I heckle these kids on the street. I've never and will never boo a player on the court, professional or kid.

If a kid isn't mentally tough enough to read this (or better, ignore it) then boo f'ing hoo. This is about 1/100th the scrutiny that happens at any successful program. Maybe 1/1000th.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
12-19-13 09:58 PM - Post#159652    
    In response to Jeff2sf

During the JS collapse, all the criticism here was focused on the coach and was in sympathy with the players. They weren't called out. And I think most of the posters here try to remember that the point of the basketball team is to provide a successful and rewarding experience for the players, not for us, although the two things are mostly parallel anyway since losing or playing poorly aren't very rewarding for anybody.

But I agree with Jeff that nothing on the Penn threads comes close to being abusive or even to the critical standards of major-college fan boards. I think the coaches also get hit more than the players at places like that, but when the talk comes around to recruiting failures then the current players start to get flogged for their deficiencies.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
12-20-13 12:29 AM - Post#159654    
    In response to SRP

I suspect that nothing on these boards, however boorish, could affect the players. I also remember that when I was an undergraduate we students could be much more harsh critics than the posters on this board.

 
sparman 
PhD Student
Posts: 1339
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
Re: PBN
12-20-13 11:47 AM - Post#159666    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Right, we should aspire, as we supposedly mature, to using anonymous internet boards as a vent for our fan frustrations about adults who are working as hard at their job as we think we do, and kids who in most cases elected not to go to schools focused exclusively on bigtime sports because they wanted an education and life opportunities we claim to cherish, and are playing for love of the game and to publicly represent, as best they can, an institution we profess to care about, with results few if any of us were able to do achieve as students or as "distinguished" alums.

But hey, when you buy that $5 ticket and your beer, you have certain rights, know what I mean?


 
1LotteryPick1969 
Postdoc
Posts: 2260
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: PBN
12-30-13 03:20 PM - Post#160423    
    In response to puband09

  • puband09 Said:
. PBN also offered a lot that live streams can't (analysis, interviews, etc



One thing I miss is updates about the careers of previous grads. It looks like Judson Wallace is still playing in Europe, but Kareem Maddox is working in LA. I can't find Ian Hummer anywhere, and likewise Douglas Davis; he disappeared after he was cut from his German team. Not sure about the status of Mavraides. I can't find him on the roster of a European team this year.

 
Colorado Tiger 
Sophomore
Posts: 182

Loc: Colorado Springs, Colorad...
Reg: 02-12-05
Re: PBN
12-30-13 06:23 PM - Post#160432    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

  • 1LotteryPick1969 Said:
Not sure about the status of Mavraides. I can't find him on the roster of a European team this year.



Saw Mavraides at the tournament in Vegas. He's stateside, working in the real world now. He was there with Maddox, Bobby Foley, Mack Darrow and Pawel Buczak. It was great to visit with those guys and thank them for their great careers, particularly the Ivy Championship and the game against Kentucky.


 
1LotteryPick1969 
Postdoc
Posts: 2260
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: PBN
12-30-13 08:58 PM - Post#160448    
    In response to Colorado Tiger

Thanks for the info. What is Mack Darrow doing? Whatever he is doing, very methodical about it, I'm sure :).

 
Colorado Tiger 
Sophomore
Posts: 182

Loc: Colorado Springs, Colorad...
Reg: 02-12-05
12-30-13 10:51 PM - Post#160466    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

Didn't get a chance to talk with Mack. But I suspect your supposition is correct. Pretty sure Mack's brother, who I believe plays football for Princeton, was with him as well. We sat in front of these former players for both games and it was entertaining to say the least. As a group, but mostly led by Mavraides and Foley, they kept calling out Coach Earl. When I talked with Mavraides about this year's scoring output, he said that under Sydney they hardly ever worked on offense and spent all of their time on defense.

 
1LotteryPick1969 
Postdoc
Posts: 2260
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
12-31-13 07:26 AM - Post#160485    
    In response to Colorado Tiger

They sound like a fun bunch. I was out in Utah skiing; I almost flew down to Vegas for the games, and now I wish I had. The comment about SJ confirms my suspicion. It may also explain the troubles he is having at Fairfield. Not many basketball players enjoy working on defense that much.

I hope this team is good enough on defense to win in the Ivies. The loss to Portland was disappointing; the number of points given up in the loss was frankly shocking.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
12-31-13 12:10 PM - Post#160508    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

Perhaps because we have become so used to tight and adaptive defense in the past, the Portland game was a surprise. I assumed that we had no decent scouting available and, therefore, failed to identify any of their vulnerabilities. It seemed that we never found any way to stop them while we were coughing up far too many TOs.

 
Colorado Tiger 
Sophomore
Posts: 182

Loc: Colorado Springs, Colorad...
Reg: 02-12-05
12-31-13 12:25 PM - Post#160509    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

They were a fun bunch and the tournament was fun although the venue was a bid odd. It was held in the same arena as the National Finals Rodeo is held annual and smelled like horse. When I ran into Coach Henderson in the hotel lobby, even he commented on the fact that the venue had a huge bar at one end of the court. There were never more than a few hundred fans at either game, the majority of whom were Princeton fans.

The team was really hampered on both ends of the court against Portland by Brase's foul trouble. Miller will be a fine Princeton center as he matures, but without Brase on the floor, our offense stalled and our defense struggled. Once Brase and Miller both collected two fouls early in the first half (the officiating didn't help our cause against Portland), Henderson was forced to go with Garbade and our struggles only increased. Portland was 3 deep in the post with, as others have mentioned, significant size and strength in the front court. Brase is the key to this team's success on both ends of the floor. With him on the floor, everyone is better and can do what they do well. Without him, other players must try to fill his role somewhat, taking away from their own role.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 4894

Reg: 02-04-06
12-31-13 05:18 PM - Post#160520    
    In response to Colorado Tiger

Yeah, that's pretty much the way it's looked since pre-season--sharp but brittle at the post position. It's okay if Miller's offense comes along slowly but PU needs him to be precocious on D.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
12-31-13 06:58 PM - Post#160524    
    In response to SRP

With our numerous personnel mixes on the court at any given time, it would be nice to know which combinations are most effective. Where did Jon Solomon get that information?

 
puband09 
Masters Student
Posts: 782

Reg: 12-19-09
02-24-16 07:58 PM - Post#202564    
    In response to Tiger69

I never would have guessed in 2013 that the site would sit this long without any updates, photo galleries, think pieces, or guest posts. Now that the team is looking better, I find myself missing some of the content, and I'm surprised that hasn't inspired JS to get involved. I'm sure he's lurking, but does anyone know if he has any plans to return whatsoever?

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3988

Reg: 11-23-04
02-24-16 09:20 PM - Post#202567    
    In response to puband09

Call T69, he can handle it.

 
JadwinGeorge 
Senior
Posts: 357

Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
02-24-16 10:18 PM - Post#202576    
    In response to Old Bear

Jon and his parents attend most home games sitting where they have always sat. I think Jon went through one coaching change too many. He ran the best site of its kind in college hoops.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
02-24-16 10:59 PM - Post#202588    
    In response to Old Bear

Thanks, OB.
Jon Solomon is the consummate Tiger (even though he sports a degree from Northwestern). But, after giving many years to educating and entertaining Princeton bball fans he has discovered the joys of raising a young daughter. May she also join the ranks of Nassau.

 
1LotteryPick1969 
Postdoc
Posts: 2260
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
02-25-16 10:52 AM - Post#202604    
    In response to Tiger69

And be 6 feet tall with a good handle.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2801

Reg: 11-23-04
PBN
02-25-16 11:03 AM - Post#202607    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

And as talented and dominant as Blake Dietrich.

 
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