Penn94
PhD Student
Posts: 1461
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-16-14 02:05 PM - Post#169536
Well, our coaches must be doing something.
Darnell Foreman just committed to Penn.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Some positive news
04-16-14 02:25 PM - Post#169538
In response to Penn94
Link?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Some positive news
04-16-14 02:28 PM - Post#169539
In response to palestra38
OK, I looked him up on COBL
http://cityofbasketballlo ve.com/recruiting-profile...
Looks like a bit of a reach at this point.
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section110
Masters Student
Posts: 847
Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Some positive news
04-16-14 02:33 PM - Post#169541
In response to palestra38
Verbal Commits has him on Penn's list. That's new today. Friend, who is a former hs & cc coach/administrator thinks he is a good pick-up for us. Thinks he was the best player on a team with a Villanova & a Lafayette commit. He played very well in the State Group I semis (eliminating the defending champion), the group final & the first round of the Tourn. of Champions in a close loss to the Group 4 (large enrollment) champs.
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Chuck
Masters Student
Posts: 995
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Some positive news
04-16-14 02:33 PM - Post#169542
In response to palestra38
Another 5'10" player, pretty soon we'll have an all "under 6'" squad. I wish the young man the best and he appears to be a very qualified student. However, with no D-1 offers and only "interest" from a scattering of bottom dwellers it doesn't appear that his arrival in W. Philly is going to lead the resurrection of Penn BBall.
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Penn94
PhD Student
Posts: 1461
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-16-14 02:40 PM - Post#169543
In response to Chuck
https://twitter.com/LTofD4/status/4564871 409650892...
Not commenting on his quality of play, just pointing out a committment.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-16-14 02:42 PM - Post#169544
In response to Penn94
...and obviously, the significance of a signing to the likelihood (make that unlikelihood) of a coaching change.
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Penn90
Masters Student
Posts: 574
Reg: 11-22-04
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04-16-14 02:59 PM - Post#169547
In response to palestra38
I've constantly carped about the coaching staff's inability to recruit locally, especially Polykoff. So kudos for the commitment.
And kudos to Penn94 for scouring the intertubes looking for some small shred of good news.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-16-14 03:11 PM - Post#169548
In response to Penn90
At least they added a kid who wants to play defense, if this article about him being named South Jersey POY is accurate. There's been far too little of that recently.
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Chuck
Masters Student
Posts: 995
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-16-14 03:35 PM - Post#169550
In response to palestra38
...and obviously, the significance of a signing to the likelihood (make that unlikelihood) of a coaching change.
I have given up all hope of any change, we've hired the most qualified and experienced AD in America and I'm sure she knows what she is doing. She's going to evaluate things carefully and make a careful, considered decision.
"Oh" says Amy, "what's that liquid in the bottom of the boat?" "We're working on figuring that out," says the new AD, "we think its water and there might not be any bottom to the boat anymore, but once I'm fully in charge I'll make sure we get it tested and figure out what it is."
From the sidelines a mournful cry erupts from depressed and frustrated Quaker fans..."the boat is FRIGGIN' sinking!!!"
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Penn94
PhD Student
Posts: 1461
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Reg: 11-21-04
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Some positive news
04-16-14 03:40 PM - Post#169551
In response to Chip Bayers
And while I know there is no HS coach in America who won't give overly flowery quotes for a piece like that, given what has happened with the team this offseason and (my opinion) poor leadership by our captain this year, this is a nice quote as well:
The sign of a good player is that they make those around them better, and that’s exactly what Foreman did — he also had the benefit of players like Delaney, Stafford and Tyler Wisniewski to help make him better as well.
Foreman scored 874 points in his two seasons at Pitman. But more importantly than any of the numbers he is leaving behind, he is leaving behind the legacy of a champion — and a leader.
“He’s a leader on and off the court,†said Delaney. “He’s constantly getting on people, good and bad. No matter what you do in practice, (he’s) always keeping everyone concentrated ... always in your ear. A great leader.â€
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Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 586
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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04-16-14 03:41 PM - Post#169552
In response to Chip Bayers
The last paragraph is music to my ears.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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04-16-14 03:43 PM - Post#169553
In response to palestra38
I think this is exactly what we should be doing, regardless of whether a coaching change is coming. The staff should be operating as if they are staying, until they are not. That means you keep recruiting for next year (and subsequent years) right up until the point when they show you the door.
I don't think this tells you much of anything about whether a move will be made. The fact that we haven't made a move yet is far more telling (though again, not dispositive).
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jmverlin
Junior
Posts: 218
Age: 35
Reg: 07-18-12
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04-16-14 03:48 PM - Post#169554
In response to SomeGuy
Hey guys--
Here's the CoBL story on Darnell's commitment:
http://cityofbasketballlo ve.com/2014/04/penn-gets-...
I've only seen him a few times, and never in a HS game situation. He's lefthanded, can definitely knock down an outside shot and he's not weak, either. Would imagine he'll be good enough to get out on the court but whether or not he'll be effective right away remains to be seen. But he's definitely got the right attitude.
-Josh
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Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 586
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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Re: Some positive news
04-16-14 03:53 PM - Post#169555
In response to Chuck
He's listed as 6'
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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04-16-14 03:54 PM - Post#169556
In response to Chuck
It seems to me that we are where we are in part because people like you announced that there was water in the boat about 10 years ago when there really was not. So we did our best to drive the captain away and replace him with a couple of captains who made sure we actually took on water.
So now we've moved on to criticizing someone who isn't even in charge yet and has even less to do with where we are than you do. Could be a great hire, could be a terrible hire (certainly far more experienced than Princeton's hire for the same spot). I suggest we let her actually start to do her job, and give her a chance to clear the water, rather than questioning her ability to recognize water.
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Chuck
Masters Student
Posts: 995
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-16-14 03:54 PM - Post#169557
In response to SomeGuy
I think this is exactly what we should be doing, regardless of whether a coaching change is coming. The staff should be operating as if they are staying, until they are not. That means you keep recruiting for next year (and subsequent years) right up until the point when they show you the door.
I don't think this tells you much of anything about whether a move will be made. The fact that we haven't made a move yet is far more telling (though again, not dispositive).
If it doesn't tell you much about a move, it then implies a certain level of misrepresentation to potential recruits. Unless, of course, you believe the staff is telling them "we might not be here next year, but you should come to Penn anyway, there's hardly any players left so you should get some great playing time."
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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04-16-14 03:59 PM - Post#169558
In response to Chuck
I don't think there's much to misrepresent. Jerome Allen is the coach right now. Where is the misrepresentation in the coach recruiting a kid to come play at Penn?
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Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 586
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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04-16-14 04:09 PM - Post#169562
In response to SomeGuy
Not to mention bad mouthing a kid who signed with penn an hour ago. Chuck how many times you see the kid play?
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Penn90
Masters Student
Posts: 574
Reg: 11-22-04
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 04-16-14 04:24 PM - Post#169564
In response to Charlie Fog
Of course, with our recent track record of point guard recruits they'll probably find bodies in the crawl space underneath his dorm room. 
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-16-14 04:31 PM - Post#169566
In response to Charlie Fog
No one "badmouthed" the kid. Probably a great kid. He had only Div II offers. That's what drew the reaction. Could be great and lead the team back to a title. I hope so.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4361
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-16-14 05:50 PM - Post#169570
In response to palestra38
Seems like a good thing to me. Let's remember Ibby had little interest coming out of high school. Don't think Eggleston, Dougherty or even Zoller were more than add ons. They ended up being pretty good players for Penn.
Anybody think Alex Rosenberg could play when he committed to Columbia?
I'd like to see another big wing/pf added to this class. I think we are still out there poking around.
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Chuck
Masters Student
Posts: 995
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-16-14 06:27 PM - Post#169572
In response to SomeGuy
It seems to me that we are where we are in part because people like you announced that there was water in the boat about 10 years ago when there really was not. So we did our best to drive the captain away and replace him with a couple of captains who made sure we actually took on water.
You are delusional if you think that I or anybody else commenting on this MB had anything to do with Dunphy leaving. The reasons he left are pretty obvious and none have to do with a MB.
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Chuck
Masters Student
Posts: 995
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Some positive news
04-16-14 06:37 PM - Post#169573
In response to Charlie Fog
He's listed as 6'
Yeah, exactly. When I played in HS I was listed at 6'7". Maybe I was 6'4 1/2... Bagtas was listed at 6', too. He wasn't near 6'.
That's not to say a kid that size can't be good, but that we are assembling a whole bunch of kids that aren't very tall. That is usually not a formula for success.
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Chuck
Masters Student
Posts: 995
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-16-14 06:40 PM - Post#169574
In response to Charlie Fog
it doesn't appear that his arrival in W. Philly is going to lead the resurrection of Penn BBall.
That's bad mouthing the kid? Get a grip.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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04-16-14 06:52 PM - Post#169575
In response to Chuck
I want to piggy back on Chuck's response to SomeGuy's shot:
1st. I never called for Dunph's firing. I thought he could do better than he was doing if he would make the moves I suggested. This doesn't make me a bad fan.
2nd. I've learned a little bit from that decision in that I wasn't screaming for Andy Reid to be fired because I knew that the grass wasn't always greener. But some times it is(love me some Chip).
3rd. Dunphy left because he was able to double his salary and because he probably didn't feel appreciated by Bilsky. On his list of reasons to leave, I guarantee "message board criticism" wasn't in the top 100. If it was, he's the dumbest S.O.B. I've ever met, because sports message boards only get worse the higher up in competition you go.
So easy there, SG. EASY.
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Chuck
Masters Student
Posts: 995
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-16-14 07:11 PM - Post#169576
In response to Jeff2sf
If Dunph was actually so sensitive to the incredibly mild and polite criticism on this board he would have left Temple about January given what was said about him over there.
It's just silly to suggest that a seasoned coach pays any attention to what is said on a MB. I think that it was not only the money, but Dunphy's frustration at trying to recruit in the Ivies and losing year after year in the NCAA's that made up his mind to go over to Temple. He wasn't getting any younger and, I assume, had a pretty high belief in his coaching ability and wanted to show what he could do without the restraints before it was too late.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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04-16-14 07:20 PM - Post#169577
In response to Chuck
Yes, no hard feelings, I root for him at Temple. But we should have been able to survive the loss of one coach (God knows Princeton has). Sadly, Bilsky had to put his stamp on the program. And we're still suffering for it.
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Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 586
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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04-16-14 07:26 PM - Post#169578
In response to Chuck
it doesn't appear that his arrival in W. Philly is going to lead the resurrection of Penn BBall.
That's bad mouthing the kid? Get a grip.
Ok bad mouthing maybe a bit strong, but snarky for sure.
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20Penn14
Senior
Posts: 364
Reg: 02-26-12
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04-16-14 07:57 PM - Post#169579
In response to Charlie Fog
Just remember, size doesn't mean too much. Bagtas was 5'11, and he had one of the ugliest shots I have ever seen.
Alex Mitola and Siyani Chambers are both under 6 feet, and I think they can ball pretty well.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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04-16-14 09:04 PM - Post#169581
In response to Jeff2sf
I don't really think you guys are responsible for Dunphy leaving. At least not in anything other than a karma sort of way. I sometimes read both of your posts now and find myself thinking you've gotten what you deserved. And dragged me and my favorite team right along with you. But ultimately, I'm just lashing out because I'm frustrated with where we are (which is probably exactly what Chuck is doing when he goes after Calhoun).
Certainly agree that MBs just get worse the higher you go, and that no coach at this level or any other is spending any time worrying about what we say.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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04-16-14 10:39 PM - Post#169585
In response to SomeGuy
So when I panned the pick of Miller immediately, did I get any karma for that? When I first spotted that Jerome wasn't doing a good job (while finishing 2nd), and that trouble was ahead, do I get karma for that?
Spare me that we are getting what we deserved. We criticize when appropriate. You seem to default to defending.
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Chuck
Masters Student
Posts: 995
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-16-14 10:53 PM - Post#169586
In response to Charlie Fog
Ok bad mouthing maybe a bit strong, but snarky for sure.
I don't know whether it was being snarky or not...but, the point is it wasn't directed at the kid, I hope he becomes a star. It was really a comment about the state of the program when we're digging for positives in something like this.
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Chuck
Masters Student
Posts: 995
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-16-14 11:02 PM - Post#169587
In response to SomeGuy
I'm just lashing out because I'm frustrated with where we are (which is probably exactly what Chuck is doing when he goes after Calhoun).
Of course it about frustration and not only about what's happened...but, what isn't happening. Somebody needs to step up and make some obvious decisions, give the program a clear direction and start moving. Instead we seem totally adrift and none of us can do anything to change the course of events. The people who could change things aren't.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4361
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-17-14 08:17 AM - Post#169591
In response to Chuck
Darnell is growing 
http://www.nj.com/south-jersey-sports/i ndex.ssf/20...
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-17-14 08:44 AM - Post#169592
In response to AsiaSunset
Hey, it happened to Koko Archibong.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3777
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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04-17-14 08:52 AM - Post#169593
In response to Chip Bayers
Not to mention David Robinson.
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Penn7277
PhD Student
Posts: 1365
Loc: Lancaster, PA
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-17-14 10:06 AM - Post#169598
In response to Silver Maple
And Corky Calhoun.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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04-17-14 10:25 AM - Post#169600
In response to Jeff2sf
I think I default to what strikes me as the opposite of the loudest voices, whatever they may be. If all the posts were about how awesome we are, I'd be pretty vocal about us not being awesome.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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04-17-14 11:45 AM - Post#169608
In response to SomeGuy
I'm curious, over the last 3 months, have you noticed that I'm not one of the 10 loudest voices with respect to Allen?
P94
Silver
P38
Chuck
fdia
are all way more into clamoring for a change than me. I think you could find 5 more as well, perhaps even including you. Just because I'm loud doesn't mean I'm wrong. Just means I need to be heard when everyone else is saying everything's fine. I'm a contrarian too ya know, zig when you zag, all that. I go where the data takes me.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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04-17-14 11:54 AM - Post#169610
In response to Jeff2sf
I go where the data takes me.
So do I, but the data seem pretty darn suggestive in this case.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-17-14 12:13 PM - Post#169613
In response to Jeff2sf
You were...2 years ago when Penn was competing for a title. Now, when they stink and the program is in a shambles, you're not. Contrarian, indeed.
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Penn94
PhD Student
Posts: 1461
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-17-14 12:14 PM - Post#169614
In response to Jeff2sf
I'm curious, over the last 3 months, have you noticed that I'm not one of the 10 loudest voices with respect to Allen?
P94
Silver
P38
Chuck
fdia
are all way more into clamoring for a change than me. I think you could find 5 more as well, perhaps even including you. Just because I'm loud doesn't mean I'm wrong. Just means I need to be heard when everyone else is saying everything's fine. I'm a contrarian too ya know, zig when you zag, all that. I go where the data takes me.
Let it be clear that my noise has been squarely focused at Amy, Bilsky, Calhoun, Parker Executive Search, and the University's comically-awful processes behind the way they are "leading" the Athletic Department and in turn, how they manage Penn basketball.
I don't think I've called for Jerome's head. I'm not going to do that. I have too much respect for him as a former player, a role model, and a person to do that. I acknowledge that I am too close to the situation (not currently, just because of the circumstances surrounding my interactions with him when we were both students) to speak rationally about Jerome.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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04-17-14 12:30 PM - Post#169615
In response to palestra38
P38, this is not to say I support him staying, I'm just not going to scream loudly anymore.
I will change my mind if we're at, say, 13 wins next year and everyone's lauding an improvement and asking for more time. Then I'll be screaming holy hell.
But there's no one to convince anymore.
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Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 586
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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04-17-14 12:38 PM - Post#169616
In response to SomeGuy
You have been delegating your duties well.
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fdiapmf
Masters Student
Posts: 590
Reg: 08-03-05
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Some positive news
04-17-14 01:18 PM - Post#169617
In response to Charlie Fog
Listen I'm trying to stay as positive as possible, but did we just get a kid with no other D1 offers?
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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Re: Some positive news
04-18-14 01:04 AM - Post#169643
In response to fdiapmf
When you're a bottom 10 national program, do you expect much more?
That is how far Penn Pride has disintegrated.
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Okoro Dude
Senior
Posts: 309
Loc: Glen Mills, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
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Re: Some positive news
04-21-14 02:59 PM - Post#169682
In response to Penndemonium
We can stick to data rather than hyperbole as the data is bad enough. Despite all the challenges and poor performance, we are not a bottom ten national program. Feel free to provide any data to the contrary.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Some positive news
04-21-14 04:34 PM - Post#169685
In response to Okoro Dude
Just to put some data to the argument that we are not a bottom 10 program -- we haven't come close to a bottom 10 finish in any season. We've only had a couple of bottom 100 finishes by most metrics. SRS actually had us outside the bottom 100 this year (ok, we were 101st from the bottom).
Anytime I say anything like this, I get accused of celebrating mediocrity. All I'm saying is that the "bottom 10 program" claim significantly overstates how bad we've been. I'm not saying that everything is ok just because we're not a bottom 10 program.
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