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Username Post: Individual efficiency stats 2007-2014        (Topic#16685)
Stuart Suss 
Masters Student
Posts: 836

Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
05-25-14 01:32 PM - Post#170572    

I offer for discussion the individual efficiency statistics for the years 2007-2014.

Instead of using the ORat, I offer the more transparent box score metrics by Hollinger, the Game Score (GS), and by Berri, the Win Score (WS) as adjusted in 2011 to reduce the weight of defensive rebounds. Key among the differences between the two metrics – GS rewards “shot creation” while WS penalizes inefficient shooting and tends to slightly favor big men because of the value WS places on rebounding.

These numbers are for regular season, conference games only. The numbers are adjusted to account for differences in tempo among the teams. For example, in 2014, Columbia averaged 61.5 possessions per 40 minutes while Penn averaged 67.4 possessions per 40 minutes. The league average was 64.2 possessions. So Penn numbers (WS and GS) are reduced by a factor of 64.2/67.4 and Columbia numbers are increased by a factor of 64.2/61.5. Those adjusted numbers are shown as Adj WS and Adj GS. Those columns should be used to compare players on different teams. While this makes comparison of players within a season more accurate, it makes comparisons between seasons slightly harder since the league average of possessions varies from year to year.

In addition to looking at the raw totals for WS and for GS, you may also wish to look at the per 40 minute numbers, WS/40 and GS/40. Perhaps these numbers identify underutilized players, or just those players who are unable to stay on the court for longer periods of time.

Among the other categories listed in the spreadsheet are true shooting percentage (TS%) and pure point rating, a superior version of the assist/turnover ratio.

Individual box score metrics, whether the ORat the Win Score or the Game Score are debatable for many reasons. These are not the team efficiency numbers I kept for Penn prior to my retirement so I have no personal stake in them. They are offered to advance the discussion.

Reminder: Box score metrics measure only those numbers which appear in a box score. There is no positive (or negative) score for (1) boxing out so that a teammate pulls down a rebound (or failing to do so), (2) going to the right spot on the floor and setting a good screen (or failing to do so), or (3) spotting and executing a good entry pass to initiate the offense (or failing to do so). Even more importantly there is no box score number for playing good on-the-ball defense (or for failing to do so).

You can select the year by clicking on the appropriate box at the bottom of the spreadsheet. Within any particular year you can rank the players by category by utilizing the drop-down menu to the right of the category heading.



 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9354

Reg: 12-02-04
Re: Individual efficiency stats 2007-2014
05-25-14 04:44 PM - Post#170574    
    In response to Stuart Suss

It also looks like you've only included those who averaged at least 10 minutes/game.

Not that Hicks doesn't deserve a low rating (he certainly does), but I'll bet most of the 10-15 min/game players who are ranked near him (at least for last year) would be ranked a lot lower if they had to play the bulk of the game (29 min/g) like he did.

Edited by penn nation on 05-25-14 04:44 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
UPIA1968 
Masters Student
Posts: 680
UPIA1968
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
Re: Individual efficiency stats 2007-2014
05-25-14 07:34 PM - Post#170576    
    In response to Stuart Suss

Thanks for the hard work. Very well done. The numbers for Hicks are very revealing. They remind us of the high standards of even Ivy League college ball. It is not enough to just have dribbling skills. One must have court awareness and shooting skills as well, not to mention rebounding and defensive skills. Brian Grandieri had the broad set of skills even though he could only dream of Hicks' quickness on the ball.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3091

Reg: 02-04-06
05-28-14 07:23 PM - Post#170625    
    In response to UPIA1968

Interesting. Weisz and Cook are ranked higher than I thought they'd be even though I thought both had good seasons. Bray came out #1 or #2 in all of DI in some efficiency measures during the season, so his placement is not surprising.

The limitations of these box score numbers are illustrated by Saunders coming in below Rivard and Mondou-Missi, when the latter were pretty dependent on the attention Saunders drew. Not to mention Saunders's defensive presence.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3262

Reg: 11-23-04
05-28-14 08:10 PM - Post#170627    
    In response to SRP

Spieth was 7th, I was surprised he wasn't higher. I think he might move up.

 
Stuart Suss 
Masters Student
Posts: 836

Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
2015 updates
03-12-15 08:18 PM - Post#185747    
    In response to Old Bear

The individual efficiency statistics have been updated in several categories and now include this most recent season (excluding the playoff games of 2015 and 2011). Results are available back to the 2006-07 season.

Please review the post at the top of this thread for explanations of some of the categories and the overall limitations of box score metrics.





 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9354

Reg: 12-02-04
Re: 2015 updates
03-12-15 08:40 PM - Post#185754    
    In response to Stuart Suss

Hicks is a one trick pony (volume scorer) who sometimes didn't get that trick to work this year, or at least the scoring part of the equation.

Sad how he's regressed (significantly) from the middle of the pack after his first season.

Hopefully with the plethora of PGs next season his turnovers can decrease.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3091

Reg: 02-04-06
Individual efficiency stats 2007-2014
03-12-15 08:47 PM - Post#185755    
    In response to Stuart Suss

Thanks Stu.

Number in the Top 20:
Harvard 5
Princeton 4
Yale 3
Columbia 3
Brown 2
Dartmouth 2
Cornell 1
Penn 0

PU and Columbia are the outliers in terms of correlation with record. Bad D strikes again.

Edited by SRP on 03-12-15 08:49 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2027

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: Individual efficiency stats 2007-2014
03-12-15 10:03 PM - Post#185762    
    In response to SRP

But, 7 Tigers in top 30, five of whom are underclassmen. Looks nice for the future

 
Stuart Suss 
Masters Student
Posts: 836

Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
2016 update
03-12-16 03:37 AM - Post#204268    
    In response to Tiger69

The individual efficiency statistics have been updated and now include this most recent season (excluding the playoff games of 2015 and 2011). Results are available back to the 2006-07 season.

You can select the year by clicking on the appropriate box at the bottom of the spreadsheet. Within any particular year you can rank the players by category by utilizing the drop-down menu to the right of the category heading.

Please review the post at the top of this thread for explanations of some of the categories and the overall limitations of box score metrics.



 
Dr. V 
PhD Student
Posts: 1349

Reg: 11-21-04
03-12-16 11:56 AM - Post#204278    
    In response to Stuart Suss

Wow, Sears and Sherrod at #1 and #2 and Mason at #46???

 
Stuart Suss 
Masters Student
Posts: 836

Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
03-12-16 12:04 PM - Post#204279    
    In response to Dr. V

Makai Mason at #45 (the #1 ranked player appears on row 2) is one of the great mysteries of this evaluation.

I welcome the thoughts of anyone who would like to speak to why Mason is perceived as having performed better than his numbers seem to warrant.

I have my own theory which I will share in due course. Hint: Look at the 2012 rankings.



 
Dr. V 
PhD Student
Posts: 1349

Reg: 11-21-04
03-12-16 04:27 PM - Post#204294    
    In response to Stuart Suss

For reasons I can't figure out, I can access your stats off of your post three posts up but not the one at the beginning of this string that contains your explanations of the stats.

 
Stuart Suss 
Masters Student
Posts: 836

Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
03-12-16 04:45 PM - Post#204295    
    In response to Dr. V

Here is a working link explaining Hollinger's Game Score. The other explanatory links are working for me.




 
UPIA1968 
Masters Student
Posts: 680
UPIA1968
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
Re: ratings
03-17-16 09:40 PM - Post#204857    
    In response to Stuart Suss

Great work Stu. Thanks!

 
Stuart Suss 
Masters Student
Posts: 836

Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: ratings
03-05-17 10:59 PM - Post#225181    
    In response to UPIA1968

The individual efficiency statistics have been updated and now include this most recent season (excluding the post-season tournament, and the playoff games of 2015 and 2011). Results are available back to the 2006-07 season.

This season's results are limited to those who played at least 140 minutes in league games.

You can select the year by clicking on the appropriate box at the bottom of the spreadsheet. Within any particular year you can rank the players by category by utilizing the drop-down menu to the right of the category heading.

Please review the post at the top of this thread for explanations of some of the categories and the overall limitations of box score metrics.

 
SomeDartmouthStudent 
Freshman
Posts: 49

Reg: 11-30-16
03-08-17 09:59 PM - Post#225777    
    In response to Stuart Suss

In an effort to both praise your efforts and bump this up because I think it is relevant- great job Stuart.

 
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