pennsive
Junior
Posts: 200
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-03-14 12:35 PM - Post#173441
Check out today's article about the work Jerome Allen and his staff have been putting into turning around the team's and the coaches' performance. Despite the skepticism and negativity of this Board, I am confident that we all hope this training is well learned and then effectively communicated. If so, it is a very good beginning to a new chapter.
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-03-14 12:56 PM - Post#173442
In response to pennsive
Really? That was your take from that cupcake piece? Mike certainly should be a candidate to be Jerome's publicist should he ever need one. Anyone not familiar with what's happened to this program after reading that thing would think that last year's catastrophe was an aberation and things are gonna be just fine now. I mean after all it can't get in worse can it?
So they went to some clinics and met with some coaches. So what?! What coach doesn't? Does that mean it's time to can what's not been working and maybe tailor what you're running to what you have? Ha! I doubt it. Sadly, it sounds to me as though this coach has learned nothing from these sad years. It's defend until you foul and if we score, well, who needs scoring anyway?
I must admit though I was especially heartened to hear that Allen and the new AD are besties now and any thought of replacing him anytime soon can be put to rest. I can hear them singing Kumbaya from where I sit. Or is that "Nearer my God to Thee"?
Dig in gang. It ain't gonna get any better anytime soon.
Simply my opinion folks. It ain't easy watching something I care so deeply about become a mere shell of what it once was.
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Penn90
Masters Student
Posts: 574
Reg: 11-22-04
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10-03-14 01:42 PM - Post#173444
In response to Buckeye Quake
I didn't think the article was THAT much of a puff piece. Hey, at least he's visiting the right coaching staffs. And maybe he didn't do that before -- although the article doesn't say.
I'm glad Calhoun seems to be trying to help Allen and the staff, if only to demonstrate that she gave him a fair shake before firing.
What I would have liked to have read in the article was humility from Allen, some sort of acknowledgement that he is primarily responsible for the problem.
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besnoah
Masters Student
Posts: 803
Reg: 12-14-05
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10-03-14 01:44 PM - Post#173445
In response to Buckeye Quake
I think the part of that piece that I found most disheartening was when Jerome was describing what the team needed to get better at. Not because I didn't feel like he had a handle on what went wrong, but because I didn't feel like I had any understanding of what he basically wants the team to do. Great teams have a sense of identity, what is Penn's?
They spent 3 or 4 years recruiting exclusively combo guards and posts, and conceptually seemed like they wanted to run full-court pressure, even if they rarely did it. Now they're recruiting wings and shooters.
Are they changing the offense to reflect the new focus? What does the defense look like? Are they an up-tempo team? Do they generate offense with defense? Is the offense inside-out?
I don't need all of these questions answered, but I would like to have some sense of what the rebuild looks like other than just a recitation of the obvious laundry list of issues to be corrected.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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10-03-14 05:36 PM - Post#173455
In response to Penn90
FWIW, I think there is a lot of humility in saying "I don't know it all" and in going out and asking for help. So I don't necessarily think lack of humility is an issue.
Also, I think the question of ultimate responsibility is a complex one. Yes, the coach after this many years is "responsible" (and my style would be to say it was my fault even if it wasn't). But I think we are where we are because of the Glen Miller years (and maybe, even prior to that, Bilsky and others doing what they could to drive Dunphy away).
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fdiapmf
Masters Student
Posts: 590
Reg: 08-03-05
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10-03-14 05:48 PM - Post#173456
In response to SomeGuy
it sounds like he realized it's pedal to the metal time. credit to him for doing that (maybe should've been doing that since day 1), but you hear about this stuff all the time. i don't know if this should be characterized as humilty, but rather him doing his job,, nick effing saban brought in lane kiffin.
regardless, it's a positive and hopefully leads to better success this year.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3777
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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10-03-14 08:53 PM - Post#173461
In response to Penn90
I'm glad Calhoun seems to be trying to help Allen and the staff, if only to demonstrate that she gave him a fair shake before firing.
Let's be clear here-- Grace Calhoun has nothing to lose and everything to gain by bending over backwards to help Jerome Allen be successful. First of all, she's stuck with him for now, whether she wanted that or not. What's more, I'm sure she'd like to avoid firing him and going through a head coach search. That's a process that's time consuming, emotionally wrenching, extremely expensive and highly risky. If she can help Allen turn the corner and become successful, that's a huge win for her. And, as you point out, she certainly doesn't need anybody saying she didn't give Allen every chance to right the ship. But, if by season's end, things haven't improved sufficiently, I'm fairly confident that she'll do what needs to be done.
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gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts: 487
Reg: 01-30-06
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10-04-14 12:55 AM - Post#173468
In response to besnoah
Despite all the learnin' Jerome did this off-season, I fear he's still going to run a 3-small-guard team out there, and then resort to inexplicable substitution patterns that kill any flow to the game and render the whole thing unwatchable.
And how is it that a recruit as highly touted as Hicks arrives and turns out to be an unbelievable gym rat, yet after two years doesn't seem close to realizing his potential? Maybe the constant losing is getting to me, but it sure seemed that Hicks-end-of-soph-year wasn't appreciably farther along than Hicks-start-of-frosh-year .
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4361
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-04-14 06:24 AM - Post#173471
In response to gopenngo
I don't mind 3 guard offenses. What jumped out in the article for me were two big facts:
1. 2nd in two point fg %; 7th in 3 pt fg %. I think that's why the recruiting emphasis seems to have shifted away from pure athleticism to guys that can put the ball in the basket and who have a better grasp of the fundamentals.
2. Jerome is still talking about full court defensive pressure. This I believe is one reason we've been so bad. We commit silly fouls, it doesn't yield enough in terms of turnovers and ultimately leads to our thin front court picking up silly fouls after our guards get burned.
The team could be decent this year with solid point guard play. We need a QB with some poise and vision, who can hit the open man and the open shot. I'm not sure, in the absence of any hard news, if one of the freshmen can provide that. I don't see an upperclassman on the roster who has demonstrated he can.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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10-04-14 07:03 AM - Post#173472
In response to AsiaSunset
Popovich is a long time mentor for Allen. No surprise he spent time over the summer with San Antonio, he's done that before. The Popovich connection was a big reason why I felt comfortable early on with the decision to hire Allen.
I don't feel like I learned anything new from the article. Well, I learned the frosh don't mind getting towels for the upperclassmen and Allen thinks this is a good sign. I'd prefer that they're capable of taking on the upperclassmen on the court, but whatever.
While I hope for the best, I remain a skeptic.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4361
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-04-14 07:13 AM - Post#173473
In response to TheLine
Not sure what can be learned in San Antonio. The pro game is so different in just about every respect from the sets we run at Penn.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-05-14 10:35 AM - Post#173489
In response to AsiaSunset
Well, we can't play worse as a team than we did last year. Anything he can do to make Penn play as a team will help. The team, however, has lost a lot of talent. What looks to be the new influx isn't getting here until next year. All one can say is that if Howard and Dylan Jones are good, Penn can improve.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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10-05-14 08:49 PM - Post#173502
In response to AsiaSunset
I don't mind a 3 guard at all if the talent dictates that. If we're calling Howard a guard, I think it will work fine. What I don't like is when we do it with 3 guys who aren't big and strong enough to rebound and defend bigger players. I think a 3 guard with Hicks, Lewis, and PLP won't go well (and would be similar to what we've done the last couple of years).
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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10-06-14 01:37 PM - Post#173547
In response to SomeGuy
Yeah. Didn't our backcourt one year have Kreitz, Lyren, and someone else small in a 3 guard set. I don't mind small and good, but in that case it felt like we were bringing elementary school kids to a fight. But I think Dunphy managed to do much better with that talent than we did last year.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-06-14 01:46 PM - Post#173550
In response to Penndemonium
Dunphy did better with football players for a starting guard and backup forward.
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coins
Sophomore
Posts: 195
Reg: 01-16-07
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10-06-14 01:53 PM - Post#173551
In response to palestra38
There may be some football players looking to switch sports at this point in time.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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10-06-14 05:19 PM - Post#173574
In response to Penndemonium
Yes, we had a number of little guards over the Dunphy years who seemed to be able to do more of what you need to get away with a small lineup. Both Jordan and Klatsky had seasons where they averaged more than 4 rebounds per game. Hard to imagine any of our current small guards doing that.
Though the defensive strategy may have a lot to do with our guards not being in position to help with rebounding.
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