Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-23-15 11:33 AM - Post#183351
In response to penn nation
i don't care about penn football, so I like to think I'm fairly detached. Couldn't you make an argument that the game might have passed him by?
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Penn90
Masters Student
Posts: 573
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-23-15 11:35 AM - Post#183352
In response to penn nation
I agree, PN. It's interesting to hear Jensen's take since he's been covering local colleges for centuries.
To me it does seem like a step down for Bagnoli. The only reason why he'd do that -- and possibly tarnish his legacy -- was that he is mad at Penn for being pushed out and (presumably) ignored by Calhoun and wants to stick it to the Quakers.
But I can't really fault Bilsky for pushing out a coach whose team was on the decline his last two years. Plus, as the new AD Calhoun can do whatever she wants. She inherited Bagnoli. Now, as Jensen pointed out, he's out of her hair.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-23-15 11:36 AM - Post#183353
In response to Jeff2sf
If so, why would you hire his top assistant after 2 down years in a row?
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-23-15 11:49 AM - Post#183356
In response to palestra38
I don't know and, again, I don't care.
I'm just saying it's not like this is Dunphy going out with several years left in the tank. Frankly I'm getting most of this opinion of posts I've read from you and your arguments with Asia. If I'm mischaracterizing your opinion on the last 5 or so years of Penn football, feel free to re-state.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-23-15 12:47 PM - Post#183359
In response to Jeff2sf
I agree with you on that---indeed, I have opined that Bagnoli didn't seem to have the same fire in the belly as the guys running Harvard, Yale and Princeton. But he's the greatest coach in Ivy history and this is not the way for him to go out. I also questioned the hand off by Bilsky to Bagnoli's assistant without leaving that decision to the incoming AD, who essentially was left to preside over a terrible situation in basketball with a big contract, and a questionable situation in football with another big contract. Lame duck ADs shouldn't be making those kinds of decisions.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12530
Reg: 12-07-04
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Bagnoli to Columbia???
02-23-15 02:42 PM - Post#183369
In response to palestra38
There is a much bigger question that needs to be asked. Why exactly have these last 2 years been down years when he was so good for so long?? When you read the tea leaves, I think it's a lot more of an organizational decision than just the game is passing him by. They are clearly not getting the level of recruits they used to get, and the question becomes why. I don't think Al just forgot how to recruit, so we need someone to dig a little deeper.
At the end of the day I just want to know who I can hold accountable for the complete and utter downfall of two once proud programs. I know who to blame for the basketball debacle, but this football stuff reeks of outside influence...
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4358
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-23-15 02:47 PM - Post#183370
In response to palestra38
You can question it but the fact is the transition was a few years in the making and Priore has the absolute support of the people who count when it comes to Penn football.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12530
Reg: 12-07-04
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02-23-15 02:58 PM - Post#183372
In response to AsiaSunset
Does he have the players support? That is the most important question. Not supporting a coach can be overcome, but not when it's a coach they already know.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-23-15 02:58 PM - Post#183373
In response to AsiaSunset
How do you explain Bagnoli's decision to take a new head coaching job after 3 months if he was all-in with this decision for several years?
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4358
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-23-15 03:10 PM - Post#183375
In response to palestra38
Because the administrative duties he envisioned and discussed with Bilsky were not the same as the ones delivered by Calhoun and because Columbia has moved to fund its football program at a level substantially higher than Penn or any other Ivy schools.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-23-15 03:17 PM - Post#183377
In response to AsiaSunset
OK, that makes sense, but it confirms in my mind, once again, that Bilsky should not have been making decisions like this and sticking his successor (when he knew he was stepping down) with a fait accompli. She has been stuck with the JA contract situation and apparently a similar situation with Bagnoli when she, of course, should have the right to select her senior administrative aides.
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts: 1171
Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
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02-23-15 04:05 PM - Post#183388
In response to AsiaSunset
...and because Columbia has moved to fund its football program at a level substantially higher than Penn or any other Ivy schools.
More money than even Harvard spends on its program? Wow. I guess somebody at Columbia got the message. I'm impressed.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1154
Reg: 07-28-07
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02-23-15 05:33 PM - Post#183399
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Here is a link to the Columbia press release re Bagnoli's hiring
http://www.gocolumbialions.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB...
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4358
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-23-15 06:52 PM - Post#183411
In response to palestra38
Priore has been the coach in waiting for several years. He enjoys the support of the.Penn football heavies. This has been in the works for several years. This was never going to be Grace Calhoun's call.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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Bagnoli to Columbia???
02-23-15 07:57 PM - Post#183416
In response to AsiaSunset
If you ask me, that's not the way to manage Penn's athletic programs. If you hire an AD, that AD should be the person who makes the hiring decisions for Penn Athletics. If you make it clear that the key decisions "Never will be Calhoun's" call, it's almost a vote of no-confidence for someone you just hired.
Or are you telling us that it was the "heavies" and not Bilsky who made the decision to hire JA?
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4358
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Bagnoli to Columbia???
02-23-15 08:40 PM - Post#183420
In response to palestra38
Can you just stop arguing and use your brain for once. Al's desire to move from coaching to administration was 3 years in the making. Priore was made Associate Head Coach and the plan was put in place.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23360
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-23-15 09:00 PM - Post#183423
In response to AsiaSunset
Yeah, use your brain for once. Sheesh.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Bagnoli to Columbia???
02-23-15 10:12 PM - Post#183429
In response to AsiaSunset
I know how involved you are and why you would consider any criticism of what has taken place personally. I don't aim my criticism at you, since you are not employed by Penn. But unfortunately, your criticism of me is symptomatic of everything that is wrong with athletics at Penn. If you lose someone like me, it doesn't matter that there are people like you who are willing to contribute money. It's pouring money down an empty pit. I represent the last of the people who care. If you, as a Penn insider, don't have any qualms giving me the equivalent of the middle finger, it's nothing new. The Penn administration has effectively been giving all of the true fans--the fans who go to every game--the finger for close to 10 years. You are not at every game---I am. To you, however, it's money over dedication. And that is everything that is wrong with Penn Athletics.
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besnoah
Masters Student
Posts: 803
Reg: 12-14-05
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Re: Bagnoli to Columbia???
02-23-15 10:29 PM - Post#183431
In response to palestra38
I represent the last of the people who care.
Just wanted to jump in here as someone who cares about this program and say you do not represent me.
Also, the idea that game attendance is the only proxy for program investment is one of those things that people with weaker arguments often turn to in an effort to deflate arguments from people who feel an equal ownership but may not be able to choose their location for any number of factors.
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gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts: 487
Reg: 01-30-06
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Re: Bagnoli to Columbia???
02-24-15 01:24 AM - Post#183438
In response to AsiaSunset
So... Al knew he didn't want to coach anymore three years ago? And knew administration was his bag? (Sorry)
Did he decide it sure would be swell to be an AD? Was this administrative position to be an associate AD position foisted upon the new "real" AD? He can't have yearned for years for a simple office, pencils, and a telephone to fund raise, right?
The plan put in place by the Penn Football Heavies - was it just Priore's ascension, or was Al's ascension part of it, too? Or did they simply want Al out? I have no idea what's really going on here - I'm looking for a Kevin Spacey character.
Grace having none of it gives me hope that she's not going to roll over and accept the "gifts" bestowed upon her by Bilsky. Including a curious contract extension in another, bottom of the Ivy, sport.
It's a shame that Penn doesn't have a president interested enough in athletics (and the glorious history of the teams) to marshal all the forces and passions toward a common goal.
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