Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-24-15 01:33 AM - Post#183439
In response to gopenngo
How quickly people forget that Dunph's pension vesting was always one of the great obstacles to his leaving Penn, until the economics worked for him with the Temple deal.
How is what seems to be happening with Bagnoli any different? He decided to give up day-to-day headaches with kids to one of his lieutenants in order to take a job that would allow him to reach the next pension cliff at Penn. Then another school came along with an offer that would fill that pension gap and more and he took it. Isn't this the most plausible scenario?
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gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts: 487
Reg: 01-30-06
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02-24-15 02:05 AM - Post#183441
In response to Chip Bayers
Maybe, but I never thought that Dunphy wanted to give up coaching. Did he really, for years, plan his own retirement from coaching into administration? Because of all the kids and headaches?
This situation seems a little different.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Bagnoli to Columbia???
02-24-15 09:11 AM - Post#183446
In response to besnoah
Let me rephrase that---I am "representative" of the last of those who care. I don't speak for anyone but myself. And nothing I said presupposes that I love Penn basketball in particular and athletics in general any more than you do---I don't know why you would take that away.
Except that for some reason, people take personally here that which is never intended to be a personal affront. That, to a certain extent, is characteristic of this kind of communication. If we were sitting at a bar, having a beer and hashing out these issues (which example I have long held up as the kind of back and forth I enjoy here), you never would have taken what I said personally.
And that is, over a period of about 9-10 years, from the time Dunphy announced his decision to leave, we have seen a decline in both results and interest in Penn sports (football as well as basketball) that was unimaginable. Decisions appear to be made with no consideration of the long time fans or student body. Accordingly, there are essentially no students who care about sports anymore except those who actually participate and the attendance at football and basketball has fallen off the cliff. In my section at the Palestra, the most devoted two fans imaginable sitting next to me gave up their seats this year and essentially, it is empty except for giveaways---these are center court seatbacks.
Now comes the Bagnoli move--could it have been imaginable that 10 years ago, the most successful coach in Penn history (and now Ivy history) would "retire"---only to go to COLUMBIA 3 months later? [Note--I wish him nothing but the best]. Clearly, he had not lost the "coaching bug." It's one thing if he left to go to a higher level program. But this is just embarrassing. So here we are. I in no way claim that I am a bigger fan or have more of my life invested in these programs than anyone else here--that's why we're all here. But I'm on the verge of giving up tickets that I long have said they "would have to rip out of my cold dead hands." And that's a shame.
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gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts: 487
Reg: 01-30-06
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Re: Bagnoli to Columbia???
02-24-15 09:59 AM - Post#183448
In response to palestra38
Maybe it was Al knowing he wasn't going to coach forever, and wanting to see his loyal assistant rewarded before Bilsky retired. The Heavies concurred, and it was accomplished. It's certainly understandable that they didn't trust the president to make a satisfactory AD hire, so they made sure Ray's loyalty was rewarded. And Al's, too, to an extent.
So, you're Al, you've successfully handed over the reins before the uncertainty of a new AD could screw things up, but your admin position isn't what you thought it would be. You know you have a few more years in the tank, and the phone rings.
I'm OK with that. However, did the same unwillingness to trust a future AD chosen by the president lead to Jerome's extension? Taking care of a legend, crossing fingers, and praying he grows into the job?
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8236
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-24-15 04:23 PM - Post#183515
In response to gopenngo
I think you probably have the scenario pretty close to what happened. I also bet Andy Talley had his hands in this and Nova adds Columbia as a cupcake game after they drop us.
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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02-26-15 11:42 PM - Post#183761
In response to penn nation
I saw that this morning and it reeks of apologetics.
Or at the very least, ghostwritten by Bilsky and Calhoun's press agents.
Since the article says that Penn's reputation is one of the things being hurt in this situation, it's difficult to see how this is an apologetic or a Penn plant.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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02-26-15 11:49 PM - Post#183762
In response to Penn90
I agree, PN. It's interesting to hear Jensen's take since he's been covering local colleges for centuries.
To me it does seem like a step down for Bagnoli. The only reason why he'd do that -- and possibly tarnish his legacy -- was that he is mad at Penn for being pushed out and (presumably) ignored by Calhoun and wants to stick it to the Quakers.
But I can't really fault Bilsky for pushing out a coach whose team was on the decline his last two years. Plus, as the new AD Calhoun can do whatever she wants. She inherited Bagnoli. Now, as Jensen pointed out, he's out of her hair.
Again, since the transition has been in the works for three years now, and Penn was having a good year then, there's no evidence that he was pushed out. Furthermore, while last year was definitely the worst he's had, it's not like he hadn't had mediocre stretches before; he went five years without a championship and playing .500 ball before winning the three out of four outright. He also had a couple of slow years at Union.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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02-27-15 12:08 AM - Post#183764
In response to palestra38
I agree with you on that---indeed, I have opined that Bagnoli didn't seem to have the same fire in the belly as the guys running Harvard, Yale and Princeton.
I don't know how many games you saw this year, P38, but the ones I was at he had plenty of fire in the belly--quite a few players were publicly scorched by it when they screwed up. The fire just wasn't getting the usual results. This is one reason why I'm wondering whether he actually will work out at Columbia--his patience with the players seems to be wearing thin as he get older, and Columbia isn't known for its tolerance for hardasses.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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02-27-15 12:10 AM - Post#183765
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
...and because Columbia has moved to fund its football program at a level substantially higher than Penn or any other Ivy schools.
More money than even Harvard spends on its program? Wow. I guess somebody at Columbia got the message. I'm impressed.
Yeah, I doubt it's substantially higher than everyone else, but from what everybody's saying, it is substantially higher by Columbia standards.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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