Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-28-15 08:45 PM - Post#183954
Quakers ride a shockingly hot (especially for them) start to a halftime lead.
Who ever heard of a James Jones coached team committing only one foul in 20 minutes? Gotta love those Ivy Saturday nights.
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tguru
Masters Student
Posts: 409
Reg: 01-10-05
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Re: Yale
02-28-15 08:52 PM - Post#183955
In response to Chip Bayers
The best Penn has looked in a while. Good early defense w/o DNH. Everybody see the slashing moves by Woods and Hicks? 26'er from SJ. Shot clock tre from Hicks.
Edited by tguru on 02-28-15 09:03 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-28-15 09:08 PM - Post#183957
In response to tguru
Ball obviously knocked out of bounds off Cotton. Baseline ref three feet away blows call anyway. Refs refuse to go to replay to fix for fear of embarrassing him.
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tguru
Masters Student
Posts: 409
Reg: 01-10-05
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Re: Yale
02-28-15 09:10 PM - Post#183959
In response to tguru
Horrific strip of Woods by Sears. Ouch!
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Yale
02-28-15 09:12 PM - Post#183960
In response to tguru
Woods has looked good tonight, though. Certainly better than Sears, at least to this point.
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tguru
Masters Student
Posts: 409
Reg: 01-10-05
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Re: Yale
02-28-15 09:19 PM - Post#183962
In response to penn nation
Woods has looked good tonight, though. Certainly better than Sears, at least to this point.
Look, I like Woods more than life itself but sometimes he just isn't vigilant enough.And where was THIS Penn team the past few weeks?
Edited by tguru on 02-28-15 09:20 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-28-15 09:25 PM - Post#183964
In response to tguru
Only 7 TOs through 30 minutes. Amazing how competitive you can be when you don't waste possessions.
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tguru
Masters Student
Posts: 409
Reg: 01-10-05
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Re: Yale
02-28-15 09:26 PM - Post#183965
In response to tguru
Absolutely brain dead pass from Tony to Auger. And pretty floater from A. Woods.
Edited by tguru on 02-28-15 09:27 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-28-15 09:26 PM - Post#183966
In response to Chip Bayers
As soon as I post that, Tony commits one of his classic bonehead TOs.
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tguru
Masters Student
Posts: 409
Reg: 01-10-05
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Yale
02-28-15 09:32 PM - Post#183968
In response to Chip Bayers
Stunning jump/hook from Auger!JKeep defending.
Edited by tguru on 02-28-15 09:33 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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tguru
Masters Student
Posts: 409
Reg: 01-10-05
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Re: Yale
02-28-15 09:35 PM - Post#183969
In response to tguru
Montague pulls one out of his....oh well.
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tguru
Masters Student
Posts: 409
Reg: 01-10-05
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Re: Yale
02-28-15 09:36 PM - Post#183970
In response to tguru
Another Hick's forced entry pass.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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02-28-15 09:43 PM - Post#183971
In response to tguru
The end game play was as good as ever. Only 3 more games and then maybe we can get a coach who can give the team a chance. That 26 foot 3 from woods as the shot clock expired said it all.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Yale
02-28-15 09:46 PM - Post#183972
In response to tguru
Well there's your key sequence: down one, Woods misses front end of one-and-one. Duren then takes a really dumb long contested 2, but Sears gets the offensive rebound in traffic and kicks it to Montague, who nails the uncontested three.
Sears may have just sealed it,taking DNH off the dribble from the perimeter for the traditional three-point play.
Edited by Chip Bayers on 02-28-15 09:48 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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tguru
Masters Student
Posts: 409
Reg: 01-10-05
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Yale
02-28-15 09:52 PM - Post#183974
In response to Chip Bayers
Looking at the postgame line no Greg, no Dylan, no Cam saw play?????Telling???Whatsu p?
Edited by tguru on 02-28-15 09:59 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Yale
02-28-15 10:06 PM - Post#183975
In response to tguru
Look, it's not like that group would have been any better. Turnovers were down-way down. Woods was quite good until late. Sam Jones hit a couple of nice threes. DNH actually had some hops in this game--a welcome change.
We got killed on the boards, but that probably would have been the case against Yale no matter who we put out there.
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section110
Masters Student
Posts: 847
Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Yale
02-28-15 10:21 PM - Post#183977
In response to penn nation
I think Woods wore down, so a few minutes for Cam might have helped. Really appreciated the defensive job Auger did when he was on Sears.
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tguru
Masters Student
Posts: 409
Reg: 01-10-05
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Re: Yale
02-28-15 10:39 PM - Post#183979
In response to penn nation
Look, it's not like that group would have been any better.
I can understand your reply but I never meant to imply their absence was outrageous. Simply that this was probably the first time this troika did not play minute one. Had to be a reason.
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Ted
Junior
Posts: 222
Reg: 12-23-12
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Re: Yale
03-01-15 09:32 AM - Post#183993
In response to tguru
Another all time record broken last night - 7 Ivy losses in a row. Sheesh.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Yale
03-01-15 09:45 AM - Post#183994
In response to penn nation
Woods is now averaging more assists per game than Jerome Allen did as a freshman (maybe that's not fair, since Jerome was playing with Paul Chambers). Not bad. Only Rosen averaged more as a freshman that I can remember.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Yale
03-01-15 10:06 AM - Post#183997
In response to SomeGuy
Freshman records usually mean that your team stinks. That's the reason you are playing freshmen. Dunphy, moreover, played freshmen only in limited capacities. So Ibby played very little and didn't handle the ball much as a freshman. He learned from the Charlie Copp disaster that it just couldn't be done compatible with winning at the Ivy level. Woods is a nice player. Hopefully, he will find stardom with a good coach. I'm pessimistic that we will be back to competitiveness within his 4 years.
Jerome has to win 2 of his last 3 to avoid the 3rd straight 20 loss season. Very very impressive---no other Penn coach even attained 20 losses once.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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Yale
03-01-15 11:42 AM - Post#184002
In response to palestra38
We're not being fair to Lon Jourdet, who probably could have done it with his late 30s/early 40s teams if he had been able to suit them up for the modern era's 28-30+ game seasons. As it was Lon was never allowed to schedule more than 18 games in a single campaign.
Edited by Chip Bayers on 03-01-15 11:44 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Yale
03-01-15 11:47 AM - Post#184004
In response to Chip Bayers
You're not going to mention Jerome's performance in the same breath as the GREAT LON JOURDET, are you? True, he had two seasons of 5-12 and 5-13, but he had seasons of 18-2, 15-1 and 22-1 consecutively. He had a significant positive winning percentage for his career. No, Jerome stands alone.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/pennsy...
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section110
Masters Student
Posts: 847
Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Yale
03-01-15 12:22 PM - Post#184007
In response to palestra38
And our only national championship!
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Yale
03-01-15 01:10 PM - Post#184012
In response to Chip Bayers
I thought Louis Jourdan just died.
Oh wait a minute...
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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Re: Yale
03-01-15 01:44 PM - Post#184013
In response to palestra38
I'm pessimistic about a complete turnaround within 4 years as well. I do like Woods' potential to become a complete player, though. We'll see.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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 03-01-15 03:37 PM - Post#184024
In response to SomeGuy
I think Calipari at Kentucky would argue with the idea that Freshman records are for bad teams. I understand your point but when your team is playing poorly for the 3rd straight year you can criticize, rightfully, any part of the program. Woods is legitimately pretty good.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-01-15 03:49 PM - Post#184027
In response to PennFan10
Apples and oranges. At Kentucky, some of those freshmen may leave after a year to go pro.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-01-15 03:55 PM - Post#184028
In response to penn nation
I did say freshmen at our level. KY plays pros.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Yale
03-01-15 08:00 PM - Post#184041
In response to section110
Now That Was Basketball:
http://penngazettesports.com/2012/12/07/the-long-j ...
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Penn90
Masters Student
Posts: 574
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-01-15 08:50 PM - Post#184047
In response to palestra38
My daughter graduates high school in 2019 and I sincerely hope she attends Penn later that year. For the first time I actually doubt Penn hoops will be good when/if she matriculates.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-01-15 08:55 PM - Post#184048
In response to palestra38
Its not apples and oranges outside of Kentucky. There are freshman playing significant minutes on many of the teams in many of the conferences, pros or not. Its just a fact in today's game that good freshman in basketball are more ready to play than years past. Ohio State, Michigan, Northwestern, St Louis, Georgetown, Dayton, Stanford, Belmont,Florida State, Fordham, Iona, Vanderbilt, Maryland, all have freshman playing significant minutes. Columbia, Princeton and Dartmouth also have freshman playing in addition to the Quakers.
There are many signs of weakness in a program and playing freshman CAN be one of them, its definitely not a leading indicator IMO.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32815
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-01-15 09:30 PM - Post#184055
In response to PennFan10
With all due respect, you are wrong. At our level, having significant freshmen minutes means you stink and are in a full rebuild. Contrary to your point, no Ivy team has more than 1 freshman playing more than 10 minutes a game...except for Penn. Columbia has 1, Dartmouth has zero, Princeton has 1...so contrary to your point, they don't play a lot of freshman. Having a single freshman playing minutes is not consistent with your point. Just to continue, Yale has 1 freshman playing more than 10 minutes, Brown has 1 (barely), Cornell has zero and Harvard has zero. Penn, on the other hand has FOUR. We play by far and away play the most freshman---over 5X as many freshman minutes as any other Ivy team. And, we stink. At our level, meaning, non-scholarship mid-major, playing a lot of freshman is indicative of being a bad team. While you may recruit one real solid player ready to play, Ivy players in general are not ready to play major minutes as freshmen. You simply cannot compare Maryland or Kentucky...even Northwestern (which wouldn't play so many freshmen if they weren't in a rebuild either)--money programs play money players.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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Yale
03-01-15 10:56 PM - Post#184060
In response to palestra38
"Our level"? You mean division 1? With all due respect there are dozens of examples across college basketball (all divisions, scholarship and non-scholarship) of freshmen playing significant minutes (10+ a game). Now, in your most recent post you clarified your point a little more, which I tend to agree with, which is playing multiple freshmen isn't a great sign (Kentucky/Duke, et al excluded). But playing 1-2 freshman regular minutes is a normal course of business and there are plenty of examples, Ivy league included.
Edited by PennFan10 on 03-01-15 10:56 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Penn90
Masters Student
Posts: 574
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-01-15 11:20 PM - Post#184061
In response to PennFan10
Further to P38's point, a lot of those other schools have players leaving after a year or two or three. Obviously that's not the case in the Ivies because no one's entering the draft early. It follows that seniors are more physically mature and court savvy than freshmen. So the fact that an Ivy team plays one freshman could mean he is talented or they have a talent gap in a certain position.
When four freshmen get significant playing time it means the upper classmen are terrible or are non-existent. Both scenarios are true with Penn, which is the 76ers of Division I.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-02-15 12:00 AM - Post#184062
In response to Penn90
I would say SOME of those other schools have players leaving. Definitely not all. There are a lot of D2 and D3 schools who are very competitive who play some freshman. My point is there are freshmen now who are capable of playing significant minutes. I agree you can't have 4 freshmen playing but Sears and Saunders played heavy minutes as freshmen. And remember, guys like Auger are freshman by class, not by age. I believe he is a post grad so is the age of a sophomore.
Your (and P38) point is that you can't win with several freshman (and in Penn's case 4) playing a lot of minutes and I agree with that. My point is that 1-2 freshmen playing significant minutes is not at all uncommon for even top Ivy teams.
The champion of the Ivies will certainly be senior laden teams, that makes sense. It doesn't mean it will always be the case, but I think that's true today.
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QuakerShaker
Freshman
Posts: 59
Loc: West Coast
Reg: 02-04-10
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03-02-15 12:51 AM - Post#184063
In response to SomeGuy
As I've said, this is the kind of effort we get when we give serious minutes to Sam and keep Auger in the game, and don't play DNH or Lewis.
Shocking how long DNH and Lewis remained in the starting lineup.
Good effort on Saturday guys. This is a good freshman crew (Woods, Sam, Matt, Foreman) that should have been rotating with Howard / Hicks.
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