QuakerShaker
Freshman
Posts: 59
Loc: West Coast
Reg: 02-04-10
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03-02-15 12:59 AM - Post#184065
Has anyone else noticed that when Penn defense an inbound pass from underneath it's own basket, the man defending the ball (and usually everyone else) has his BACK to the ball? DNH and I think Auger have gotten smoked backdoor on this and now I see them doing it every single inbound. What is the man marking the ball / basket facing the inbounds passer? Nobody can see the ball since they're all facing their men. Never seen any time in any league at any level do this.
| When are we going to put in Solomito? |
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fdiapmf
Masters Student
Posts: 590
Reg: 08-03-05
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03-02-15 07:55 AM - Post#184069
In response to QuakerShaker
Our coach played professionally in Europe for many years, there must be a reason he's having them do this.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2137
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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03-02-15 10:49 AM - Post#184072
In response to fdiapmf
That sort of strategy is designed to deny the entry pass, so that you have more defenders on potential recipients than there are offensive players (5 on 4). If one defender slips up and isn't recognizing where the cutters are coming from (going towards the player inbounding the ball), it won't work.
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts: 1171
Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
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03-02-15 11:22 AM - Post#184075
In response to weinhauers_ghost
I seem to recall Ibby Jabber taking advantage of this defense one time, bouncing the ball off the defender's back and scoring an easy layup.
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PennQ
Freshman
Posts: 79
Age: 49
Reg: 01-03-15
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Re: Out of Bounds Play
03-02-15 02:07 PM - Post#184088
In response to QuakerShaker
I've seen more than a fair share of things done under Jerome that I have never seen any other team do. For example, my biggest pet peeve: never running a fast break.
Edited by PennQ on 03-02-15 02:07 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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igetzbuckets
Sophomore
Posts: 124
Age: 47
Reg: 07-01-13
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Re: Out of Bounds Play
03-02-15 02:18 PM - Post#184089
In response to PennQ
I've seen more than a fair share of things done under Jerome that I have never seen any other team do. For example, my biggest pet peeve: never running a fast break.
That is very funny.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12530
Reg: 12-07-04
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03-02-15 02:36 PM - Post#184093
In response to igetzbuckets
It's funny cause it's true. It's not that they never attempt it, it's that when they do, it fails at least 75% of the time. Jerome didn't seem to have trouble finishing on the break way back when. It really makes no sense and is just one more of the "little things" that add up.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-02-15 02:44 PM - Post#184095
In response to Quakers03
It's tough to get out on the break when you don't have anyone who gets clean rebounds and knows how to initiate an outlet pass.
At some point after there has been a coaching change, perhaps we'll learn the answer of the true burning question of this season--WTH happened to DNH?
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23360
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-02-15 03:55 PM - Post#184108
In response to palestra38
DNH=MIA
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-02-15 03:57 PM - Post#184110
In response to 10Q
BUT W-H-Y?
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igetzbuckets
Sophomore
Posts: 124
Age: 47
Reg: 07-01-13
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03-02-15 04:01 PM - Post#184111
In response to palestra38
I have been saying for two years that he is either not in basketball shape or he is just doesn't have the correct heart size to fit that body.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-02-15 04:32 PM - Post#184117
In response to igetzbuckets
It wouldn't have been until his return from concussion last year that you would have said that. Again, how can someone who essentially gets outrebounded by 6 footers and forgotten how to score have scored in consecutive games his freshman year, 17-11-12-17-17-11-10 after Doc went down with mono, and then as a soph started out 19-14-21-13? He's just not the same player. The DNH out there right now is simply not capable of putting up numbers like that.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-02-15 04:56 PM - Post#184121
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
My boychicks' middle school team played against squads with this dysfunctional strategy. I tried telling the coach to take advantage of it, but he never did.
I seem to recall Ibby Jabber taking advantage of this defense one time, bouncing the ball off the defender's back and scoring an easy layup.
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PennQ
Freshman
Posts: 79
Age: 49
Reg: 01-03-15
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03-02-15 05:15 PM - Post#184126
In response to Quakers03
I'd take the turnovers running a fast break than the stupid turnovers we get from running the shot clock all the way down every possession. It's ridiculous. JA tells them to slow down on obvious and easy fast break opportunities. I'm sure if someone looked it up, we probably average less possessions per game than any of the teams we play. Get out and run the ball when it's there! Hicks, Howard, and Woods are perfectly capable of running a fast break. Instead, this is what we usually get: JA "coaching" every move from the sideline while Woods dribbles the ball outside the 3 point line for 25 out of the 35 seconds and then...TURNOVER or ridiculous shot/pass. I think we are beating ourselves with the slow offensive strategy. JA dictates every move and we look confused and unprepared every game on the offensive end.
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PennQ
Freshman
Posts: 79
Age: 49
Reg: 01-03-15
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03-02-15 05:22 PM - Post#184131
In response to palestra38
Now...THAT is a true mystery. But even with his performance, it wasn't until this weekend that Jerome finally shortened his minutes. He has been pretty ineffective on both ends of the court and I'm not sure why we weren't giving guys like Dwyer (until this weekend) and D. Jones a shot. How much of a difference can it truly make? Now instead of trying different options earlier in the season, his recent lineup antics just seem like a desperation tactic. I'm sorry, but it's a little too late to salvage anything.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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03-02-15 05:33 PM - Post#184132
In response to PennQ
I wound up watching some of the Yale game. While they do run offensive plays, so much time is wasted that there isn't much time for the players to run them. Besides what PennQ notes, another issue is that the coach runs on the court almost every play to yell orders to the PG.
There are a greater variety of plays this year, however some are either ill-conceived or not run properly, resulting in too many long jump shots or the ball in the hands of a covered player with a couple seconds left on the clock. It beats some of the stuff run last year though still won't win any titles.
I don't understand the usage patterns. Players sometimes disappear from the rotation for several games and then reappear. There is little consistency. It is hard to tell why since nothing is communicated.
Also - why was Hicks held out of the beginning of the Brown game? Some sort of super secret extra punishment? That game might have been a W if Hicks starts.
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fdiapmf
Masters Student
Posts: 590
Reg: 08-03-05
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03-02-15 05:40 PM - Post#184135
In response to TheLine
I had an up close view of DNH at the La Salle game. He looked like a guy who was still injured. I'm willing to cut him slack, as us older guys can attest it's not easy to play with an injury.
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PennQ
Freshman
Posts: 79
Age: 49
Reg: 01-03-15
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03-02-15 05:47 PM - Post#184136
In response to TheLine
The inconsistency of the rotations has to be maddening for the players. I'd imagine it's pretty draining not knowing where you stand with the coach. Prime example: Greg Louis has started every or almost every game this season and then doesn't play at all at Yale?????
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-03-15 01:14 PM - Post#184224
In response to PennQ
We actually have the fourth most possessions per game in the conference. Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, and Columbia all play slower than we do.
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Penn7277
PhD Student
Posts: 1365
Loc: Lancaster, PA
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-03-15 01:19 PM - Post#184225
In response to SomeGuy
One of the reasons we have that many possessions may be connected to the number of TOs we have. 
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LocusBB
Sophomore
Posts: 119
Age: 52
Reg: 07-27-13
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03-03-15 01:31 PM - Post#184227
In response to PennQ
So true the three guys mentioned Howard, Hicks and Woods have not played well together. They all show great promise and our coach can't find a style that will make them perform together. JA with his crazy mind tricks have made this season a mess. Howard hasn't been to the foul line in 3 games. If you are his coach you run something for him to attack and stop having him stand in the corner. Hicks is a very good scorer but we want him to make passes like CP3, let Tony be Tony. Woods is a good player who is not a true PG everytime he turns the corner he only looks to score not pass to wide open teamates. One good thing these are all easy fixes with a new system.
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LocusBB
Sophomore
Posts: 119
Age: 52
Reg: 07-27-13
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03-03-15 01:32 PM - Post#184228
In response to PennQ
So true the three guys mentioned Howard, Hicks and Woods have not played well together. They all show great promise and our coach can't find a style that will make them perform together. JA with his crazy mind tricks have made this season a mess. Howard hasn't been to the foul line in 3 games. If you are his coach you run something for him to attack and stop having him stand in the corner. Hicks is a very good scorer but we want him to make passes like CP3, let Tony be Tony. Woods is a good player who is not a true PG everytime he turns the corner he only looks to score not pass to wide open teamates. One good thing these are all easy fixes with a new system.
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LocusBB
Sophomore
Posts: 119
Age: 52
Reg: 07-27-13
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03-03-15 01:33 PM - Post#184229
In response to PennQ
So true the three guys mentioned Howard, Hicks and Woods have not played well together. They all show great promise and our coach can't find a style that will make them perform together. JA with his crazy mind tricks have made this season a mess. Howard hasn't been to the foul line in 3 games. If you are his coach you run something for him to attack and stop having him stand in the corner. Hicks is a very good scorer but we want him to make passes like CP3, let Tony be Tony. Woods is a good player who is not a true PG everytime he turns the corner he only looks to score not pass to wide open teamates. One good thing these are all easy fixes with a new system.
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PennQ
Freshman
Posts: 79
Age: 49
Reg: 01-03-15
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03-03-15 01:51 PM - Post#184231
In response to SomeGuy
They may play slow, but they play slow in a system that works for what they have (Yale and Harvard in particular). We play slow and late into every possession and it results in a bunch of crap and last minute Woods heroics. The slow game does not work for us. We have some of the best athletes of any team in the Ivy league, so why don't we use that to our advantage? These teams aren't used to the athletic game and we have the potential to make teams very uncomfortable with our athleticism.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-03-15 03:11 PM - Post#184235
In response to PennQ
There may be some truth to that, though note that most of the Ivy teams play that slower style specifically because it is a contrast to how other teams play. They are built to try to beat teams with better athletes. Penn doing it with inferior athletes to many of the OOC teams that the Ivies play may not be a recipe for success. I also think that we aren't nearly as athletic as Harvard or Yale, and that Columbia is probably comparably athletic to us (what position do we have the athletic advantage over Columbia at?). I'm all for trying some new things -- I'm just skeptical that playing faster will do much of anything for us.
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PennQ
Freshman
Posts: 79
Age: 49
Reg: 01-03-15
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03-03-15 10:11 PM - Post#184267
In response to SomeGuy
Well what we are doing now surely doesn't work for us. I can't stand the sideline over-coaching by JA. It is totally ineffective. The only fast break or transition points we get are off steals. As far as athletes…a major one is Howard. Louis, Auger, Hicks, and Woods are plenty of athleticism for an Ivy team.
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Redfish
Masters Student
Posts: 767
Loc: under a bridge in Phoenix...
Reg: 11-26-04
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03-06-15 05:10 PM - Post#184603
In response to PennQ
Penn would have many more steals if Tony Bagtas had not been kicked off the team
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3770
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-06-15 05:24 PM - Post#184610
In response to Redfish
OTOH, the team would probably have a lot fewer steals if Fran Dunphy were the coach. Of course, they'd also have a lot more wins.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1154
Reg: 07-28-07
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03-06-15 05:28 PM - Post#184613
In response to Silver Maple
Not so sure about that. On the broadcast of last night's Temple-ECU game, they mentioned that Temple leads its conference in steals.
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QuakerShaker
Freshman
Posts: 59
Loc: West Coast
Reg: 02-04-10
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03-06-15 06:15 PM - Post#184626
In response to SteveChop
Louis has plenty of athleticism, just not much in the way of basketball skill. He looks incredibly strong physically, but the only reason he's starting is because he's a senior. JA just pulled the plug on him 20 games too late. Let Sam or Auger take his place.
| When are we going to put in Solomito? |
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