section110
Masters Student
Posts: 847
Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-15-15 02:40 PM - Post#186100
In response to gopenngo
I think they're mercenaries more than professionals. They'll have a tie with a particular candidate and tend to push him, not to mention less knowledge of the peculiarities of the Ivy situation.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3589
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-15-15 02:58 PM - Post#186102
In response to section110
I have no frame of reference for Fogel but good search firms are worth their price. They often find candidates you would not be thinking of. Firms who operate in this kind of environment know the landscape and may find you a diamond in the rough at places outside of the geographic sphere of influence. The hiring of a search firm is a strong indication the administration is open to candidates outside the obvious names that have been put forth.
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section110
Masters Student
Posts: 847
Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-15-15 03:08 PM - Post#186104
In response to PennFan10
Generally I understand. But the hiring universe of college DI head coaching candidates is comparatively limited compared to other positions and because the candidates are widely discussed in newspapers, television, sports radio, websites, message boards, blogs and also do their work in front of a public audience, I think its an exception to the rule.
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Ben Franklin
Masters Student
Posts: 652
Loc: Cleveland
Reg: 02-19-05
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03-15-15 03:11 PM - Post#186105
In response to PennFan10
I have no frame of reference for Fogel but good search firms are worth their price. They often find candidates you would not be thinking of. Firms who operate in this kind of environment know the landscape and may find you a diamond in the rough at places outside of the geographic sphere of influence. The hiring of a search firm is a strong indication the administration is open to candidates outside the obvious names that have been put forth.
Sometimes, ADs restrict the search's criteria in such a way that the firm can only return a limited group of candidates. In this way, the AD gets the candidate he/she wanted from the beginning, along with the perception that the search was open. In other words, CYA for the AD.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3589
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-15-15 03:41 PM - Post#186112
In response to Ben Franklin
Could be CYA, no doubt. But there are 200+ D1 HC's and 400+ assistants. And that doesn't include some of the highly talented and successful D3 coaches. Finding the next Bo Ryan requires someone doing it full time. It may yield nothing and be a CYA process, but you almost have to have it in my view.
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3060
Reg: 10-20-14
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03-15-15 04:27 PM - Post#186120
In response to Charlie Fog
Hurley is already getting some press regarding last night's conference tournament win.
An ESPN Chicago writer is pushing for him to be the next DePaul coach.
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/jon-gree nberg/post...
If DePaul’s leadership has any smarts, and that’s certainly up for debate, it will instruct whatever search firm it hires to make an early, lucrative run at Bobby Hurley, the former Duke star and current coach at the University at Buffalo. The Blue Demons won't be alone in this target.
Forget the famous name, though it helps. The 43-year-old Hurley has shown he can coach in just two years at Buffalo, going 42-19. Most importantly, he just won a conference tournament, the first in the school's short Division I history. In a one-bid league, that’s your “get out of the MAC free†card.
John Groce, then at Ohio University, parlayed a second MAC championship and a Sweet 16 run in the NCAA tournament into the Illinois job. Buffalo has that potential. Groce had a great team coming back at Ohio, including signee Caris LeVert, who ended up at Michigan and is now a potential NBA draft pick, but he knew when to get out.
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Forget the local guys. DePaul needs Hurley, a fiery competitor who quickly alienated himself in the MAC because he's loud and he wins.
That's cool. The Blue Demons need someone to -- excuse the pun -- raise some hell. Jerry Wainwright was the guy you want MC’ing your Kiwanis Club roast. Purnell, a good coach, chased the cash.
DePaul needs some intensity to convince everyone this is still a Division I program. Passion is severely underrated these days, in my opinion.
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Hurley has ties across the country, and in real basketball hotbeds. He is Catholic basketball royalty, having played for his father, the legendary Bob Hurley Sr., at Saint Anthony in Jersey City, New Jersey. He has relationships in ACC country.
That’s where DePaul needs to recruit. Get the kids in New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, wherever. Get enough talent that doesn’t look down on DePaul and some Chicago kids will stay home, too. That’s how it works.
A writer at the Cleveland Plain Dealer thinks Hurley uses this win to get a big pay raise and stay at Buffalo where he can dominate the MAC.
http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/...
1. Look for Buffalo coach Bobby Hurley to get a nice, new contract in the Saul Phillips (Ohio University, $500,000) range after the Bulls NCAA Tournament run. And while many think Hurley will quickly jump to a big-time program, I don't. My read is Hurley, with seven of his top nine players returning for 2016 plus waiting transfers in house, likes being a big fish in a farm pond and will be at UB for several seasons to come.
A March 12th article at The Buffalo News discusses Hurley's present deal and a 2nd contract extension the school has been negotiating with the coach.
http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/jerry-sulliva n/...
White is talking with Hurley about a second contract extension in a little over a year, a preemptive strike against an outside suitor (Seton Hall, perhaps?). Hurley’s last extension carried through the 2018-19 season.
Hurley makes a base salary of $300,000. He also has a clause that gives him 25 percent of net ticket revenue above $300,000. That’s considered a major perk with attendance rising and likely to get a bump if UB makes the NCAAs.
Still, money talks in the elite conferences, where coaches make significantly higher salaries. The average salary of the 68 coaches who made the NCAAs in 2012 was $1.4 million, not counting bonuses.
Putting aside the personality issues, Bobby Hurley would seem to require a significantly large amount of money to be lured away from Buffalo or any of other competing higher conference school. His strong personality may be too much for the Administration, as well.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3589
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-15-15 05:03 PM - Post#186123
In response to rbg
The Depaul job may affect some of the candidates in the Penn pool. Bryce Drew at Valparaiso is a hot name. 24 wins in each of last 4 seasons with 3 NCAA tourney bids and 3 conference titles. He will a sought after coach. Ben Howland is rumored to be stumping for the Depaul Job. Donahue is likely trying to get in as well. Its a Big East school in a major city.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21264
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-15-15 05:12 PM - Post#186124
In response to PennFan10
In truth, DePaul should pull out of the Big East. That was a mismatch from the beginning.
And while Chicago is probably the best pro sports city in America, it is awful when it comes to college sports.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-15-15 06:49 PM - Post#186146
In response to penn nation
DePaul is a Catholic basketball only school. The Big East is now a Catholic basketball only schools conference. Plus the 2nd biggest TV market? Makes perfect sense for them to be in it. Especially with the othe Midwest schools balancing out that region of the BE.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3589
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-15-15 07:32 PM - Post#186157
In response to Chip Bayers
It's been a while since a good Chicago college team has done anything, that's for sure. But Depaul is set up to be successful. They just can't get out of their own way.
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-15-15 07:50 PM - Post#186161
In response to rbg
I wouldn't think it would be difficult to lure anyone away from Buffalo.
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-15-15 07:57 PM - Post#186162
In response to PennFan10
Maybe they can dig Ray Myers up. His Joey son started their demise and it has never recovered. You'd think though with the right hire and the gold mine of talent in that region someone ought to be able to win there.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3589
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-15-15 09:43 PM - Post#186197
In response to Buckeye Quake
Agreed. It is a head scratcher for me.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21264
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-15-15 11:10 PM - Post#186214
In response to Buckeye Quake
Because of the success of Ray Meyer, they made the mistake of building an albatross of an arena far away from campus in Rosemont.
Now they're in middle of building a new one--this time at least within the city limits, although near McCormick Place which again, is nowhere near campus.
The edifice complex does not befit the relative puny stature of the program, nor did the move to the Big East with teams that just outmatch it in every way.
The only time people watched college basketball in Chicago (and a Chicago college team throughout the country) was in the '80s during DePaul's hey day, combined with the fact that most of their games were on (then) superstation WGN.
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pennhoops
Postdoc
Posts: 2470
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-16-15 10:49 AM - Post#186261
In response to penn nation
Steven Tydings â€@StevenTydings 8m8 minutes ago
SOURCES: Jim Engles, current NJIT head coach and former Columbia assistant, is very much a candidate to be Penn basketball head coach.
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Buckeye Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1601
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-16-15 10:59 AM - Post#186265
In response to pennhoops
Good to hear. The kid can flat out coach and it would be interesting to see how he does on our level. Does anyone have any idea what the time frame is for this hire? We historically seem to drag these things out. Being such a young team, with the exceptions of Tony and DNH, I'd like to see the new coach begin getting acquainted and installing his system asap.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1156
Reg: 07-28-07
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03-16-15 11:04 AM - Post#186268
In response to Buckeye Quake
I have heard that they would like to get this vacancy filled before the Final Four. My only caution would be to make sure that we vet the candidates thoroughly. Since I'm sure that Grace had the thought in mind before she actually spoke with Coach Allen, it is quite possible some of that work was already underway.
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gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts: 487
Reg: 01-30-06
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03-16-15 11:20 AM - Post#186277
In response to Buckeye Quake
I might have one reservation about Engles.
Would he want to retain Ira Bowman as his assistant again? Was Ira in any way responsible for coaching our bigs the last few years? It seems Ira was with Engles when he turned that NJIT program completely around.
I don't know who was coaching our bigs lately, but I don't want the same.
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OneIvyOne
Junior
Posts: 201
Loc: West
Reg: 08-28-13
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03-16-15 11:24 AM - Post#186280
In response to Buckeye Quake
Any new coach will have problems installing his system as the Ivy League has severe limitations on coach-player (on floor) contact between now and the fall.
Others, all others except Ivy, can have more contact over the summer.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32871
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-16-15 11:29 AM - Post#186283
In response to OneIvyOne
You forget about the Harvard "exception." Yet to be hired assistants can play ball with them and put in your system.
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