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Username Post: AJ Brodeur        (Topic#17980)
yoyo 
Senior
Posts: 354

Reg: 03-25-09
07-15-15 06:38 AM - Post#190544    
    In response to mrjames

I would argue his final team at Cornell is vintage Donahue.

 
T.P.F.K.A.D.W. 
PhD Student
Posts: 1169

Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
07-15-15 08:51 AM - Post#190551    
    In response to mrjames

  • mrjames Said:
Oh, I don't think there's any question that Stevie D will have a potent offensive team. It's the fact that he's never coached a team that has finished in the top half of the nation in defensive efficiency that is the problem.




What do you think this is about, Mike? Do you think he has a genuine misunderstanding of defensive schemes, adjustments, etc? Or do you think he makes conscious calculations that he's happy to try to outscore the other guys by giving minutes to scorers rather then to better defenders? Considering the man's age and length of experience, can you see him changing this philosophy any time soon?

 
Chip Bayers 
Professor
Posts: 6997
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
07-15-15 11:20 AM - Post#190558    
    In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.

To the extent his teams have shown a defensive philosophy, it seems to be contest the threes a much as possible, and funnel the layup line to a shot-blocking big who can contest enough of the shots to make it possible to out-efficient an opponent at the other end. 2009 Cornell might have been the best example of this: only 182nd nationally in D efficiency. But 58th in effective FG% D, 24th in 3-pt. % allowed, and 58th in opponents 3PA/FGA.

The problem in Donahue's last two years at BC was that 7'1" intended starting center Dennis Clifford (the Eagle version of Foote defensively) was hobbled by a knee injury and eventual surgery, which would force him to take a medical redshirt on '13-'14. Without the backstop, the defense fell apart on both sides of the arc.






 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 21081

Reg: 12-02-04
07-15-15 12:00 PM - Post#190561    
    In response to Chip Bayers

That doesn't bode so well for this year, since our big has a vertical leap of about 3 inches.

 
Okoro Dude 
Senior
Posts: 309

Loc: Glen Mills, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
07-15-15 02:24 PM - Post#190576    
    In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.

While I wouldn't presume to be Mike or know half of what he does, my perception is that Steve D. was never in a position to get the "complete" players who can do it all. I think in that context he makes the conscious choice to recruit shooters with ball skills who, because they are not complete players, will not be the best defenders.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3765

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
07-15-15 02:36 PM - Post#190580    
    In response to Okoro Dude

Listen-- the goal here is to score more points than the other team. If you do that, you have a pretty decent chance of winning the game. You can do that by emphasizing defense (which is what Penn fans have generally gotten used to in recent decades) or by emphasizing offense. Either approach is valid. If Donahue is more adept at taking approach #2, so be it, as long as the team wins.

 
Chip Bayers 
Professor
Posts: 6997
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
07-15-15 03:53 PM - Post#190590    
    In response to penn nation

  • penn nation Said:
That doesn't bode so well for this year, since our big has a vertical leap of about 3 inches.



Was Jeff Foote's any higher? Same for Clifford.

Each of them might have had a bigger wingspan, however - not sure what the relative reach measurements are.


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32682

Reg: 11-21-04
07-15-15 03:59 PM - Post#190591    
    In response to Chip Bayers

I don't know why I think Donahue will get good seasons out of DNH and Hicks, but I do. There's too much ability displayed in the past for either to be nearly as bad as they were last year.

 
Chip Bayers 
Professor
Posts: 6997
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
07-15-15 06:55 PM - Post#190598    
    In response to palestra38

One great test to observe will be Hicks's in-game emotions. Will Tony finally stop flying off the handle on court? And if he doesn't control himself, how will Donahue deal with it?


 
TheLine 
Professor
Posts: 5597

Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
07-15-15 07:34 PM - Post#190599    
    In response to Chip Bayers

Yep.

I'm hoping Donahue has already had a heart to heart with Hicks.

I'm willing to give Hicks a pass for the past 3 years based on the dysfunction and lack of talent around him. But he's got to play and act like a leader this year. Hicks has to show the way, Donahue will most certainly play to his strengths so he shouldn't have any excuses.

DNH's problems are more likely health related so Donahue can only get something out of him if he's healthy.

Let's remember Donahue was an assistant on teams that did play D, it's not a foreign concept to him. At Cornell he was moneyballing, it's not like he had the opportunity to recruit players who excelled at both ends of the court. I wasn't following the crash and burn at BC to know what happened there. At Penn he'll need to moneyball for at least the next couple of years, we're not going to out-recruit Harverd, or even Yale or Princeton, until the on-the-court product improves. Let's see how the season goes.


 
Penndemonium 
PhD Student
Posts: 1877

Reg: 11-29-04
07-15-15 08:06 PM - Post#190601    
    In response to TheLine

While I do expect the team to improve under Donahue, I am not so optimistic that Hicks and DNH will translate lead to a good team under Donahue.

There is no doubt that Hicks and DNH have the individual talent to be all-ivy type players. That said, there is something about their play which leads me to believe that they may not be the best players in a structured team. I haven't seen the leadership, awareness, intensity, and understanding of team offense/defense yet to assume they will be what we hope.

I think that is often the inhibitor that has held back many a potential Penn star. Milobsky, Gaines, Coifed, King, Pettinella, ...

I'm hoping I'm wrong about this. I am not giving Allen a pass on the poor team play. They were his players. But I am giving Donahue a pass if they don't seem to reach their individual potential.



 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32682

Reg: 11-21-04
07-15-15 10:16 PM - Post#190604    
    In response to Penndemonium

You are the first person who ever called Milobsky a "potential Penn star."

 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 23195

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
07-16-15 08:57 AM - Post#190605    
    In response to palestra38

Free Mike Milobsky.

 
Penndemonium 
PhD Student
Posts: 1877

Reg: 11-29-04
07-16-15 12:49 PM - Post#190607    
    In response to palestra38

6'8, great 3 pt. shooter, athletic, had moves, ... on a team that had very little of any of those things. We could have used him out there. He had foot injuries in earlier years, But Dunphy kept him at the tail end of the bench until he got the start for senior night. He promptly unleashed something like 20 points in 20 minutes.

He was the first Jewish Jordan. He had a few thundering dunks in garbage minutes during the season.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32682

Reg: 11-21-04
07-16-15 01:03 PM - Post#190608    
    In response to Penndemonium

You're going all in, aren't you? Not only was he a potential star, he was the Jewish Jordan? Nailed to the bench (why not throw some crucifixion similes) by that well-recognized novice talent evaluator, Fran Dunphy.


Well, we all keep legends in our minds.

 
Penndemonium 
PhD Student
Posts: 1877

Reg: 11-29-04
07-16-15 01:13 PM - Post#190609    
    In response to palestra38

That name was given to him by the DP. You wouldn't have seen anything from the games, because he was so deep on the bench. I used to watch practices back then too. He was a complete gym rat. This thread inspired me to do a google lookback. Here are some fun links. You have to remember that our team in 1991 started guys like Ken Graf, Paul Chambers, Paul McMahon, Vince Curran, ... none of whom could get their fingertips over the rim. Penn didn't see many gametime dunks in that era.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmVKjeAHENw

http://articles.philly.com/1991-02-23/sports/257 72...

Thanks for the memories!


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32682

Reg: 11-21-04
07-16-15 01:29 PM - Post#190611    
    In response to Penndemonium

I enjoyed that article....once I could get by that lede, written in 1991:

The otherwise erudite Penn Quakers admit they are not very well schooled in the Ivy League record book.

It's a good thing.

If they were, the Quakers would realize they are in danger of becoming the first men's basketball team at Penn to finish in the basement of a league that began 37 years ago.

Well, we managed to FINALLY achieve that goal.

And it's amazing you remember the game where Milobsky scored 20 of the 99 points he scored as a Penn Quaker.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 21081

Reg: 12-02-04
07-16-15 02:15 PM - Post#190612    
    In response to Penndemonium

  • Penndemonium Said:

He was the first Jewish Jordan. He had a few thundering dunks in garbage minutes during the season.



Well, they did share the same number so that explains everything.




 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
07-16-15 03:56 PM - Post#190618    
    In response to palestra38

I knew some guys who brought signs with that moniker to games his senior year.

 
FlaQuaker 
Junior
Posts: 223

Age: 41
Loc: NYC
Reg: 12-04-07
07-16-15 05:27 PM - Post#190624    
    In response to SomeGuy

And here's Milobsky in 2015...

http://www.chickensoupdenver.com/Chicken-Soup/Bio....

 
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