bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
|
02-22-16 10:55 AM - Post#202416
In response to mrjames
Just take a look at some of the big time teams that are identified as being on the outside looking in and there is no doubt in my mind, fair or not, that the second place Ivy League team in not getting in even with a 13-1 record. If the ultimate winner and second place team has 12-2 records and go into a playoff, there is absolutely no hope. One win over #59 BYU is not going to get the job done. A second place team in the Ivies is not even mentioned as a team on the outside looking in. I hope that I am wrong but I will be shocked if they both get in at 13-1 assuming that both teams will be 13-1; big assumption.
The NIT bracketology has Princeton as being a 4 seed.
|
mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
|
02-22-16 11:10 AM - Post#202417
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
The way the numbers stack up, Princeton is likely the only one with an at-large shot. Yale wouldn't have nearly as strong a case.
Can't imagine that they'd hold Montague's absence against Princeton in that win. That would be a shocking level of depth for the committee to go into. Now, if Yale wins the league, that could potentially come up in seeding, but the committee spends so precious little time on seeding that it probably won't.
|
mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
|
02-22-16 11:11 AM - Post#202418
In response to bradley
Again, looking at Bracketology today is not the right approach, because we're talking about a specific scenario that will unfold. Most bracketologists look at the world as it is today, not where it could go in a few weeks.
|
SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4910
Reg: 02-04-06
|
02-22-16 05:25 PM - Post#202452
In response to SomeGuy
Yale not getting in last year to the NIT, which is run by the NCAA now, is pretty indicative.
|
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
|
02-22-16 08:32 PM - Post#202468
In response to SRP
I think the main thing that hurt us there is the fact we don't have a tournament.
|
TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1885
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Rising Tide
02-22-16 08:51 PM - Post#202469
In response to SomeGuy
Here's what Jerry Palm CBS bracketmeister says matters:
1. Quality wins. This is typically wins against teams in the top 50 of the RPI, but also wins over anyone selected as at-large quality or under consideration for an at-large spot.
2. Record against better teams. How did a team do vs. the top 25, top 50, top 100 in the RPI?
3. Bad losses. Usually a loss to a team ranked below 100. Obviously, this is a negative. Losses to teams below 200 are expecially bad. Teams rarely get at-large bids with more than four bad losses.
4. Strength of schedule, especially non-conference strength of schedule. At least one team gets left out of the tournament almost every year primarily because of a very poor non-conference schedule.
5. Good record away from home. The tournament isn't played on home courts, so the committee wants to see teams perform well away from home.
6. Injuries and other roster issues. In general, this seems to matter less than it used to. The roster a team will be taking into the tournament gets weighed more heavily. To be clear -- the committee will not disregard or discount a loss that occurred with a key player missing, or because of a bad call at the end of a game, or whatever other circumstance may arise. Losses are losses.
Princeton has only one "quality win," a reasonably good strength of schedule and no "bad losses." Seems that some of the prognosticators bubble teams have a number of bad losses.
Edited by TigerFan on 02-22-16 08:53 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1885
Reg: 11-21-04
|
02-22-16 09:16 PM - Post#202471
In response to TigerFan
Princeton #19, Yal #20 in College Insider's Mid Major Top 25 http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-2...
|
bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
|
02-22-16 09:49 PM - Post#202474
In response to TigerFan
There are some really good mid-major teams based on this list, i.e. Gonzaga, Wichita State etc.--- impressive group. Good to see that Columbia got a few votes as well. More Ivy League teams on this type of list in the future; the better.
|
dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
|
02-22-16 10:37 PM - Post#202477
In response to mrjames
Bracketologists are claiming that this Princeton team deserves none.
To be precise once again, bracketologists are claiming that the the committee is claiming that Princeton deserves no consideration. The bracketologists are merely putting forth what they believe the committee is thinking.
On that note, I am forced to bring you bad news from the women's side. After this past weekend, Penn climbed to 31 in the RPI and Princeton, after sinking briefly, moved back up to 38. Despite this, ESPN's bracketology actually moved Penn DOWN one seed, from 13 to 14. By my count, there are 23 teams currently behind Penn in the RPI that are predicted to get better seeds. Needless to say, the Tigers are nowhere to be seen in the current scenario. Now, I bow to no one in my excoriation of the RPI, and I have no problem with saying that some of the teams behind Penn in the RPI are still probably better than we are (Villanova, currently #50, being the most obvious example), but nevertheless, it's really convenient how the NCAA devalued RPI as a metric just when it actually started to help some of the lesser teams. So, at this point, barring something really drastic happening, I'm going to have to officially declare #TwoBidIvy dead for the females, and I don't have much hope for the men at this point, either.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
|
whitakk
Masters Student
Posts: 523
Age: 32
Reg: 11-11-14
|
02-23-16 06:31 PM - Post#202509
In response to dperry
A two-bid Ivy is such a rare possibility that I wouldn't be surprised if the 'bracketologists' miss it (especially on the women's side, where few people do it). Princeton's women would have such a strong profile if they lost a playoff at 13-1 (~30s RPI and Sagarin, even a couple "quality wins") that they'd have to be seriously considered. But after last year you never know...
|
bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
|
02-29-16 03:20 PM - Post#203016
In response to mrjames
Lunardi just came out with his updated bracketology and needless to say, Princeton or Yale was not one of the eight teams looking in just from the outside as you previously indicated. Although there is a case for either Princeton or Yale if they both finish 13-1, the "world" is just not quite ready for a second Ivy League team. Hopefully, that will change at some point and time. I have my doubts that Princeton or Yale would have gotten in even if Princeton beat Miami or Yale beat SMU but who knows.
At least Lunardi shows Yale as a #13 seed which is better than what Sports Illustrated projected at the beginning of the season, Yale as a #15 seed.
The day that the Ivy League has a reasonable possibility of getting two teams into the Big Dance by overcoming the existing biases, I would better understand why the Ivy League Presidents would adopt a conference championship. We are not quite there yet but it will be what it will be.
|
mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
|
02-29-16 06:03 PM - Post#203030
In response to bradley
People will start to talk soon.
|
JadwinGeorge
Senior
Posts: 357
Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
|
02-29-16 06:12 PM - Post#203031
In response to mrjames
Is this Ivy Tourney hoopla about getting two bids? Really? If there's a playoff at 13-1 how is the loser any less qualified than the runner-up in a 4 team tournament? I just don't get it...
|
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
|
02-29-16 07:32 PM - Post#203038
In response to JadwinGeorge
No Ivy Tourney yet. A dumb idea that one would hope would die a natural death. But then, who thought that Donald Trump would still be around?
|
SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4910
Reg: 02-04-06
|
02-29-16 08:10 PM - Post#203043
In response to Tiger69
I have to say, I like the idea bruited on the other thread about having the regular season champ get the auto bid while having a four-team tourney for the second spot and a possible second NCAA bid or probable NIT invite.
|
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
|
02-29-16 09:20 PM - Post#203045
In response to SRP
That's my fallback position. 
|
TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1885
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-04-16 06:37 PM - Post#203367
In response to mrjames
People will start to talk soon.
Ok here's one for Mike and his commendable advocacy for #2BidIvy:
Chris Dobbertean at SBNation lists Princeton in the "Next Four Out" in its new NCAA bracket prediction. He assumes Yale wins the auto bid based on current 1/2 game league in standings. Perhaps its a start of more chatter.
Go Tigers!
http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/20 16/3/...
|
Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12530
Reg: 12-07-04
|
03-05-16 07:46 PM - Post#203495
In response to TigerFan
How can the Yale Columbia game not even make ESPN3? These last weekend Saturday night games have been picked up before. Is there some rule I'm missing? History has a chance to be made and no one will be able to watch it live? This could be the last regular season game with such meaning. Sad.
|
Stuart Suss
PhD Student
Posts: 1439
Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-05-16 08:11 PM - Post#203501
In response to Quakers03
Mike James reported on his podcast that the Ivy League office kept the games off ESPN3 to force fans to purchase the games from the Ivy League Digital Network.
|
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-05-16 08:19 PM - Post#203505
In response to Stuart Suss
Idiotic.
|
