sparman
PhD Student
Posts: 1345
Reg: 12-08-04
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Re: Penn
01-10-16 01:22 AM - Post#199152
In response to sparman
If the sub could shoot it then teams would have an incentive to fake an injury and substitute a great FT shooter from the bench.
The rule is the rule (if I'm wrong about the rule, feel free to correct).
Wiki says the rule is as follows; looks like the different opinions here reflect differences in college versus pros:
If a player is injured upon being fouled and cannot shoot free throws, the offensive team may designate any player from the bench to shoot in the place of the injured player in college; in the NBA, the opposing team designates the player to shoot, and the injured player can't return, unless the foul committed was a flagrant, in which case the player's own team also gets to pick the replacement shooter. If a player fouled takes exception to the foul, and starts or participates in a fight, and gets ejected, he or she is not allowed to take his or her free throws, and the opposing team will choose a replacement shooter. In all other circumstances, the fouled player must shoot his or her own foul shots.
Free Throws
So PU designated the foul shooter, just not well.
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1885
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Penn
01-10-16 01:54 AM - Post#199155
In response to sparman
That's what I thought and why I asked the question in the first place. Why didn't Mitch bring Canady in to take the FTs? Or was he already in the game at that point? I was listening on the radio in the car at that point so it wasn't clear who was on the floor. It sounded like he brought Canaday into the game on the next play so I assumed he was on the bench when Bell got hammered and could have come in to take the shots.
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thelaird
Freshman
Posts: 33
Age: 66
Reg: 12-08-15
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01-10-16 01:56 AM - Post#199156
In response to TigerFan
Cannedy was in the game at that time.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2272
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-10-16 09:24 AM - Post#199162
In response to thelaird
It has taken me a while to think about this game; watching it was so engaging, confusing, draining.
Miller worked very hard to defend DNH, and as the game wore on, gained some life of his own on offense.
But on the other hand, Penn seemed content to start DNH out high and work to get to the low post; why not post him low to begin with?
Amir Bell is all that and more. Move aside and give him the lane so if they get in his face he can drive. If that fails, he's got the pull up J!
Weisz, Cannady and Caruso all were forcing shots, especially Caruso, who needs to realize when his low post moves are just not available. This is likely to be the case against Yale, Harvard and Brown.
Miles Stephens: great game on both ends.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3583
Reg: 02-15-15
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01-10-16 11:35 AM - Post#199180
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
First, I think whichever team loses that game is going to complain about the officials. They were atrocious and both teams suffered and benefitted at key moments. I would expect a foul and subsequent free throw disparity for someone like Bell who was very athletic and difficult to guard. But he shot 6 FT for the game and Princeton shot 30 vs Penn's 11. 10 different Princeton players shot at least 2 FT and 3 Penn players shot 2 or more. 25-14 differential in personal fouls. That's a tough whistle for the home team.
As far as whining about officials, Mitch Henderson is one of the bigger crybaby's I have seen walk the sidelines. To his credit, and my personal disgust, he worked the officials from start to finish.
The contact that knocked Bell out of the game came from Jackson Donahue, one of the smallest players on the floor. I went up for the rebound and Bell got caught in the jaw with an elbow. It was unfortunate, but not intentional in any way. I hope he is ok. Great player.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3583
Reg: 02-15-15
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01-10-16 11:45 AM - Post#199184
In response to PennFan10
As far as Penn getting the ball to DNH lower in the post, I thought Princeton played excellent defense after the first 11 minutes of the game and when DNH tried to establish the low post they fronted him and denied the passing lanes. It was tough to get it into him low.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2272
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-10-16 03:47 PM - Post#199212
In response to PennFan10
As far as Penn getting the ball to DNH lower in the post, I thought Princeton played excellent defense after the first 11 minutes of the game and when DNH tried to establish the low post they fronted him and denied the passing lanes. It was tough to get it into him low.
Isn't that where coaching comes in?
There are multiple ways to respond to being fronted.
Honestly I was happy when DNH came out for the high ball screen, because it took him out of the offense completely. Most of his turnovers occurred when he tried to do something with the ball 15 feet from the basket.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3583
Reg: 02-15-15
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01-10-16 11:19 PM - Post#199229
In response to 1LotteryPick1969
It's not coaching its execution. If the guards won't throw it into him or rotate it when he is fronted there is no coaching that can control that. I am sure SD wants the ball in DNH hands as deep,as he can get it. But you have to have guards who can make a post entry pass.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21192
Reg: 12-02-04
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01-10-16 11:54 PM - Post#199231
In response to PennFan10
That is actually one of Silpe's main strengths. He has wonderful court vision and his passing is beautiful to watch.
As others have mentioned, it did not suit Penn well to have him overdribbling, repeatedly, down the stretch.
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1LotteryPick1969
Postdoc
Posts: 2272
Age: 73
Loc: Sandy, Utah
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-11-16 07:32 AM - Post#199236
In response to PennFan10
It's not coaching its execution. If the guards won't throw it into him or rotate it when he is fronted there is no coaching that can control that.
Here are some things I did not see him try:
If the defender plays in front of you, "step-around" or "step-over" to get position to receive the pass. If the defender keeps moving around in front of you, keep moving the defender outside or up to the high post at the elbow. Then seal on the inside and quickly cut back-door for the lob pass to the hoop. Or face the defender, step into and across the defender's body with your outside foot and quickly reverse pivot, putting your butt back into the defender and seal for perfect post-up position.
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jadwin
Sophomore
Posts: 191
Age: 74
Reg: 01-14-15
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01-11-16 11:15 AM - Post#199248
In response to PennFan10
There is a big difference between a coach working the officials to get an edge vs. fans "crying" about a loss due to referee calls. I understand that as fans we are disappointed when a team loses a very tough game therefore someone may respond emotionally and blame the refs but Penn had every opportunity to win this game independent of ref calls. A great coach from the past, always told his team that the results of the game are in your hands not in the hands of a ref so do not blame them when you lose, i.e. 4 for 11 from the FT line, 18 turnovers.
It seems like Quaker and Lion fans are far more prone to blame referees and others for losses than other Ivy League teams based on postings on this web site over the years.
With that said, the Penn players and coaches deserve much credit for give the Tigers everything they had -- it was very impressive.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32802
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-11-16 12:10 PM - Post#199252
In response to jadwin
I think if you look at it closely, Columbia people cry far far more about refereeing. What you are missing in your statement is that just about every Penn poster has stated that Penn blew the game--no one is blaming the loss on the refs. Notwithstanding the awful, one-sided calling of fouls on virtually identical plays and the 30-11 FT advantage, Penn still had an 11 point lead with 3 to go. No one to blame but ourselves for blowing that. Yes, you can look at one outrageous call like the final foul that handed Princeton the game on a rebound, but it never should have come to that.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3583
Reg: 02-15-15
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01-11-16 12:30 PM - Post#199256
In response to palestra38
Exactly.
First, Mitch Henderson is a baby. He went beyond working the officials. He cried like a girl over every call that went against him, whether is was obvious or not.
Second, Pointing out statistically significant variances of officiating is no where close to blaming officials for a loss. Penn lost the game by not making FT turning it over on key possessions. As I said in my original post the officials were atrocious both ways but the foul discrepancy was clearly in the Tigers favor.
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Albert08
Masters Student
Posts: 572
Reg: 08-21-10
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01-11-16 01:20 PM - Post#199263
In response to PennFan10
It sounds like you had Mitch miked up and had an earplug in your ear, so you could hear exactly what he was saying to the refs. Could you please give us some exact quotes of what he was saying, so we can confirm your claim? Thanks.
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JadwinGeorge
Senior
Posts: 357
Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
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01-11-16 01:27 PM - Post#199265
In response to PennFan10
Why mention "statistically significant variances" if not to suggest the variances determined the game's outcome? It's actually very "close to blaming" the referees. For you to "go Trump" on Mitch Henderson is silly. To use palestra38's term, I remember an "outrageous" no-call at the end of the game two years ago when the Tigers came in at 12-2 and left The Cathedral 12-3. Stan Van Gundy, the TV color guy, was beside himself in disbelief. Sometimes you get a call; sometimes you don't.
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mmp629
Junior
Posts: 259
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-11-16 02:35 PM - Post#199274
In response to JadwinGeorge
My husband and I went to the Palestra (yay me!)and it is an amazing and fun place to watch a game. I have nothing to say about the officiating as I am a homer all the way. Anyway, this is the second game I have seen and I love the pace at which the team plays - so much fun as fan. Amir Bell was just unbelievable. Here are my questions: how much room do the coaches get in being on the playing floor during the game? Sometimes it seemed like the Penn coach was on the floor with the players. Second, how much time do teams get before they have to break from a huddle after a timeout? Can teams ever get a technical for taking too long? Go tigers!
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TigerFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1885
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-11-16 03:08 PM - Post#199277
In response to mmp629
Thank you, Penn fans, for reminding us why we used to hate you guys so much when you fielded a good team. I hope your new/old coach restores the luster to your once proud program so we can hate you guys again in the future. I remember fondly the acrimony, large crowds (sometimes accompanied by fights over your roll out messages), etc of the rivalry. And I always enjoy the failing plumbing, peeling paint, and funky smells of your "cathedral."
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-11-16 03:16 PM - Post#199283
In response to Albert08
In fairness to PennFan10, while he was watching MH, he confused the whining and crying from the Penn fans around him with what he thought he heard coming from Mitch across the court. 
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32802
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-11-16 03:27 PM - Post#199289
In response to TigerFan
The Palestra has received a top to bottom renovation since the last time Penn was good. Jadwin on the other hand resembles the ruins of the NY World's Fair---a walk behind the curtain and it brings back all the charm of Spacely Sprockets.
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jadwin
Sophomore
Posts: 191
Age: 74
Reg: 01-14-15
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01-11-16 03:27 PM - Post#199290
In response to PennFan10
First, Mitch Henderson is a baby. He went beyond working the officials. He cried like a girl over every call that went against him, whether is was obvious or not.
Tough to argue with the above logic. Your comment reminds me of phone calls to 94.1 radio after an Eagles loss on Monday morning to provide context as to why the Birds lost while driving down to the City of Brotherly Love.
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