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Username Post: Jack Montague        (Topic#18754)
roarlionroar 
Freshman
Posts: 37

Age: 20
Reg: 02-05-14
02-22-16 06:10 PM - Post#202456    

Is there any word of him coming back? If he does not return, that is a huge loss for the Bulldogs as it thins out an already short rotation.

 
OneIvyOne 
Junior
Posts: 200

Loc: West
Reg: 08-28-13
02-24-16 05:36 PM - Post#202559    
    In response to roarlionroar

He has withdrawn from school for personal reasons. I feel bad for the Senior.

 
LionFan 
Senior
Posts: 370

Reg: 11-07-06
02-25-16 09:46 AM - Post#202598    
    In response to OneIvyOne

Must be difficult for Montague to withdraw so near the promised land, both academically and athletically. Not to belittle that, what does the substitution of Dallier into the starting lineup do to the Bulldogs' performance and chances? He wasn't pulling big minutes before having to step up.

 
mrjames 
Postdoc
Posts: 4583

Loc: Jersey City, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-25-16 10:42 AM - Post#202603    
    In response to LionFan

We won't get enough evidence to test this with the paltry sum of games remaining, but to the extent that Dallier can play 30-35 minutes with little drop off in his own abilities after crossing 20 or so mins a game, Yale might be okay here. The Bulldogs will be different (Dallier is more defense than offense vs. Montague) but the expectation is that Dallier could replace Montague's production net on both ends pretty closely.

The biggest issue for Yale is what happens when Dallier (4.6 fouls per 40) and Victor (4.7 fouls per 40) get into foul trouble in a tight game. While Dallier might keep the curtain up, at this point the VORP of Victor and Dallier over the rest of the Yale guards is massive, so the more minutes Victor and Dallier can't play, the odds of losing will rise significantly.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4116

Reg: 11-22-04
02-25-16 10:56 AM - Post#202605    
    In response to mrjames

I assume that Ghani couldn't go against Penn, as well, presumably because of the broken nose. So not only do they have a huge dropoff after their top 3 guards (without Montague), but the guy who would have moved from 5th guard to 4th guard is dinged up as well.

I'm a little surprised Jones hasn't tried playing Mason and Copeland together. He's shown a willingness to play small with Mason and Montague together, so it can't just be a question of size. I assume defense is the issue.

Another answer is to go the opposite direction and play big. Sears is a dynamic player who can do a lot of different things. Jones could play Sears, Downey, and Sherrod at the same time. I assume that would take Sears away from the oboards, though, which i guess might neutralize one of Yale's big advantages.


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 794

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
02-25-16 11:59 AM - Post#202612    
    In response to SomeGuy

I observed that Yale seemed to play differently against Harvad than they would if Montague was playing. That's inevitable when you lose one of your two ball handlers (he's second in assists) and leading 3 point shooter.

It's not a question of whether Dallier can fill in without a drop off. Yale is just not as versatile and deep. Bottom line, Yale shot 5-29 from 3 in its last three games, 1-12 against Princeton.

Yale is still very good, just not as complete a team as it was.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4116

Reg: 11-22-04
02-25-16 01:01 PM - Post#202616    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Yes, I think Yale needs to make choices now where they won't be as complete. I think with Dallier they kind of choose to go with defense, but they lose ball-handling and the ability to get clear for 3s (though when Dallier gets looks, he hits at a similar percentage to Montague) compared to Montague.

I think due to the short rotation there has been a tendency to underestimate Yale's versatility -- their rotation of 7 with Montague did a lot of different things well and could show different looks, size mixes, etc. But you take out that one key guy and it starts to look very different.

 
rbg 
Junior
Posts: 298

Reg: 10-20-14
03-01-16 11:24 PM - Post#203115    
    In response to SomeGuy

Troubling stuff in New Haven - http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2016/03/01/baske tbal...

 
Bears03 
Freshman
Posts: 51

Reg: 02-23-12
03-04-16 10:48 PM - Post#203426    
    In response to rbg

Very troubling indeed, but not limited to New Haven. The way college campuses deal with sexual allegations is unacceptable in this day and age, which unfortunately this appears to be.

In my humble opinion, the School has an obligation to educate, and the police have an obligation to protect and serve that community. When the school tries to overstep into legal matters they mainly choose to suppress information, then act in a self-serving reactionary way with little to no due process for either side which often results in an unsatisfactory result for both parties but protects the reputation of the institution.

In this particular incident without knowing any more information than has hit the press I can't help but feel for the kid that has dedicated his entire life to these last few games on the road to the Tourney which were taken away from him and won't ever be given back even if his name is eventually cleared. In the meantime opposing factions are wasting no time implying his guilt through posters all over campus that have now made international press while any alleged accuser remains completely anonymous.

This board in particular is filled with Ivy alumni that have all been through a similar four years, and it's a shame that we haven't been able to advocate for a more transparent process, at least equal to our justice system's innocent until proven guilty.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3047

Reg: 02-04-06
03-05-16 02:38 AM - Post#203443    
    In response to Bears03

Bears03 makes a lot of sense here. It's hard to see how universities are better qualified than the criminal justice system to deal with sex crimes. And there is some evidence that Yale specifically has some issues:
http://www.mindingthecampus.org/author/kcjohnson/

 
1LotteryPick1969 
PhD Student
Posts: 1356
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 66
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland
Reg: 11-21-04
03-05-16 05:06 PM - Post#203487    
    In response to SRP

Thanks for the link. Utterly fascinating discussion.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3387

Reg: 11-22-04
03-05-16 08:39 PM - Post#203515    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

Yeah so I think it's kind of interesting that a bunch of old guys are deciding what's what with the delicate situation of sexual assault given a bunch of old guys basically have gotten us into this situation to begin with.

Here's what I know:
1. At some point on some college campus, some guy has sexually assaulted a woman and gotten away with it even when it's reported because of he said/she said.
2. At some point a woman has probably falsely accused a guy of sexual assault on a campus.
3. Some how, whatever the ratios are, the great majority of sexual assaults seem to go unpunished.
4. That is probably really really frustrating for women.
5. If I was Montague's friend, I'd probably want to show support for him.
6. If I was the woman's friend, I'd want to show support for her.
7. Most of the fans shouting Montague's name last week were probably not close personal friends.
8. That had to really really suck for the woman.

Innocent till proven guilty actually doesn't work for most sexual assault cases. I'm not proposing we throw that idea out. Not at all. But he said-she said has basically tilted to he said always wins.

Unless there are two or more she's. See Bill Cosby.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3238

Reg: 11-23-04
03-05-16 09:14 PM - Post#203525    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Can someone tell me why Colleges, not just the Ivies, think they are better dealing with sexual assault that law enforcement?

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3387

Reg: 11-22-04
03-05-16 09:35 PM - Post#203533    
    In response to Old Bear

Bro,

http://knowyourix.org/why-schools-handle-se xual-vi...

http://time.com/2905637/campus-rape-a ssault-prosec...

http://feministing.com/2014/04/11/stop-telli ng-sur...

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9010

Reg: 12-02-04
03-05-16 09:35 PM - Post#203534    
    In response to Old Bear

They certainly don't think they're "better", other than being better at covering it up.

Colleges do everything they can not to publicize this stuff for fear of tarnishing their precious brand. When you combine this with the athletics department, which in most places is a cash cow, the incentive is even stronger to whitewash and protect.

At least the Obama Administration has now compelled colleges to release data on this, which for too long they've been holding off on doing.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3387

Reg: 11-22-04
03-05-16 09:35 PM - Post#203535    
    In response to Jeff2sf

And I don't even really buy into all of this. But it's like this is the first time you all are hearing about these concepts.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9010

Reg: 12-02-04
03-05-16 09:46 PM - Post#203536    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Kind of sweet though that this Montague story is going to be a huge distraction from Yale's winning the Ivies. The Yale players should come under a lot of scrutiny for their behavior over the past few days.

 
Stuart Suss 
Masters Student
Posts: 829

Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
03-05-16 11:59 PM - Post#203565    
    In response to penn nation

Apart from the work by which you have all come to know me, I serve as a member of the board of directors of a Crime Victims' Center serving a county with a population of approximately 450,000 persons. Crime victims' centers may counsel all victims of crime or may be specialized as a rape crisis center.

A college sexual assault victim (or any sexual assault victim) is best served by a professional sexual assault counselor working under the auspices of a rape crisis center which is independent of both the university and the police. The counselor can properly advise the victim, help her make an informed choice regarding the criminal justice system and assist her regarding other types of victim support.

I do not speak for all crime victims' centers. However, it is certainly our view that the criminal justice system, for all its flaws, tends to treat victims better than campus judicial processes which do not afford basic protections to victims such as rape shield laws.

Disclosure of campus crime statistics is not new. On the federal level it goes back at least 25 years to the Clery Act.

And while the stereotype of a college campus protecting its reputation by concealing sexual assault is based on reality, overcompensating with campus-based kangaroo courts destroys public faith in the credibility of victims.



 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3047

Reg: 02-04-06
03-06-16 02:09 AM - Post#203568    
    In response to Stuart Suss

Stuart Suss again makes sense. Contrary to Jeff's assertion I've been following this issue for years. What has changed of late is that the Department of Education's Office of Equal Opportunity has issued, without any hearings or comment. a ukase that schools must a) lower their evidentiary standards for conviction in a sexual misconduct case from 'clear and convincing" to "preponderance of evidence" (50.00001% likelihood of guilt leads to conviction), b) the accused should not be given an opportunity to confront, much less cross-examine, the accuser, and c) systems that have a designated person act as investigator, prosecutor, jury, and judge are preferred if a school wants to avoid OEO heat. Failure to comply leads to an enhanced risk of embarrassing investigations, government lawsuits, and possible termination of all federal funding under Title IX. When Harvard knuckled under, a boatload of its law school faculty publicly opposed the new system. A driving force in writing the protest letter was a woman who pioneered pro-accuser reforms in the criminal law on rape who believes that the lack of due process will be an engine of injustice and resentment.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3387

Reg: 11-22-04
Jack Montague
03-06-16 07:42 AM - Post#203570    
    In response to SRP

PN, This is where I part company - they were supporting their friend. They basically don't believe Montague could do what he's accused of and feel Yale wronged him. That would be very upsetting to them. They probably didn't voice this quite right but that'st he challenge.

Stu and SRP, you make a lot of sense here. But I think we'd all agree it hasn't quite turned out well for women in putting their faith in the criminal justice system. I can definitely see the allure of wanting to try something else even as it could (will?) end up backfiring. The main problem I see is that actually in most cases the evidence will come out not 50.0001 but 50.0000%.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9010

Reg: 12-02-04
Re: Jack Montague
03-06-16 11:03 AM - Post#203589    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Jeff--I hear you but there must be a way to be quietly supportive of your teammate without casting aspersions on the victim (whether alleged or real).

Belatedly, our country is waking up to the tremendous problems of sexual abuse in the country and especially on college campuses. For far too long a significant proportion of women have been victims here, and the institutions that govern our society (including those of the university) have exacerbated this issue and remedies for ameliorating it.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3047

Reg: 02-04-06
03-07-16 11:27 PM - Post#203723    
    In response to penn nation

PN is regurgitating a claim that has been exploded. In fact there is no new epidemic of sexual assault on U.S. women, and college campuses are not more dangerous than anywhere else for women in that demographic. Politically motivated bodies and individuals have been advancing that thesis and made great headway through repetition in convincing many well-meaning people, but the data fall apart upon any kind of critical analysis. There has been a transformation of courtship conventions and an increase in students equating intoxication with relaxation, both of which have increased the ambivalence and confusion around sexual behavior on campus.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3387

Reg: 11-22-04
03-08-16 08:26 AM - Post#203738    
    In response to SRP

Good luck to you with that stance, BRO.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 2758

Age: 53
Reg: 07-07-09
Jack Montague
03-08-16 11:29 AM - Post#203754    
    In response to SRP

We don't know whether Montague is innocent or guilty.

We can be reasonably sure that old white guys pontificating about changes in courtship rituals on college campuses is misguided gibberish.


Edited by TheLine on 03-08-16 11:30 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Tiger69 
PhD Student
Posts: 1950

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: Jack Montague
03-08-16 12:39 PM - Post#203765    
    In response to TheLine

I'm sick of hearing about your undisclosed, alleged sex crimes, Jack Montague.

 
Chip Bayers 
Postdoc
Posts: 3731
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Jack Montague
03-09-16 03:43 PM - Post#203972    
    In response to Tiger69

Meanwhile, Cornell basketball learns what disclosed, criminal sex charges look like.

Also a Yale recruiting target.


Edited by Chip Bayers on 03-09-16 03:44 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3047

Reg: 02-04-06
Re: Jack Montague
03-09-16 09:23 PM - Post#204015    
    In response to TheLine

Since my information about these topics comes primarily from publicly accessible journalism and social science conducted by younger people, many of them women, does that suddenly make my views valid? No. So my age and race are similarly irrelevant in invalidating them.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 9010

Reg: 12-02-04
03-09-16 09:47 PM - Post#204020    
    In response to SRP

I'm really surprised that you didn't add that "these alleged victims bring this upon themselves". I mean if you're going to be a reactionary then at least have the sense to fire all of your weapons.

  • SRP Said:
PN is regurgitating a claim that has been exploded. In fact there is no new epidemic of sexual assault on U.S. women, and college campuses are not more dangerous than anywhere else for women in that demographic. Politically motivated bodies and individuals have been advancing that thesis and made great headway through repetition in convincing many well-meaning people, but the data fall apart upon any kind of critical analysis. There has been a transformation of courtship conventions and an increase in students equating intoxication with relaxation, both of which have increased the ambivalence and confusion around sexual behavior on campus.




 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 2758

Age: 53
Reg: 07-07-09
Jack Montague
03-10-16 01:55 PM - Post#204096    
    In response to penn nation

While I'm sure you can find supposed credible research claiming courtship rituals are more confused now, I'm finding it hard to believe that today's rituals are any more confused than when I was a college student in the '80s.

Again, I don't want to jump to conclusions on any specific case. However I'm not buying "I was confused about courtship rituals" as a defense.


 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3047

Reg: 02-04-06
03-10-16 08:19 PM - Post#204156    
    In response to TheLine

Wow, some of you shellbacks haven't heard about hooking up and the rarity of "dating" or couple formation on campus. Need to hit like a decade of posts over at Slate.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 794

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
Re: Jack Montague
03-10-16 08:28 PM - Post#204157    
    In response to TheLine

I'm so confused:

The "courtship ritual" I don't understand is when the other four teammates on the court congratulate the player who just bricked a free throw!

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3047

Reg: 02-04-06
03-11-16 02:18 AM - Post#204175    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Point shaving joy?

 
sparman 
Masters Student
Posts: 772
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
Re: Jack Montague
03-11-16 12:09 PM - Post#204194    
    In response to TheLine

  • TheLine Said:
We can be reasonably sure that old white guys pontificating about changes in courtship rituals on college campuses is misguided gibberish.




I highly doubt this incident has anything to do with courtship.

Either that, or way more people in college than we suspected were actually serious about pursuing marriage on Saturdays.


 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 2758

Age: 53
Reg: 07-07-09
03-11-16 07:48 PM - Post#204236    
    In response to sparman

Oh, I agree. Was just using SRP's term.

If there's more consensual... uh... hooking up nowadays, or at least in theory, wouldn't that make it easier to find a situation that didn't involve a rape accusation?


 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3238

Reg: 11-23-04
03-12-16 09:51 PM - Post#204307    
    In response to TheLine

Before or after?

 
mmp629 
Junior
Posts: 217
mmp629
Reg: 11-22-04
03-14-16 01:35 PM - Post#204429    
    In response to Old Bear

The plot thickens:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketba ll/story/_...

 
Chip Bayers 
Postdoc
Posts: 3731
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
Jack Montague
03-14-16 01:44 PM - Post#204431    
    In response to mmp629

Just in time to ensure this will be the only story you'll hear about Yale in the days leading up to their game.


Edited by Chip Bayers on 03-14-16 01:44 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Penn94 
PhD Student
Posts: 1461

Loc: Dallas, Texas
Reg: 11-21-04
03-14-16 02:28 PM - Post#204437    
    In response to Chip Bayers

At least the NCAA Committee did Yale a favor by matching them up with a school that has a worse sexual assault record than Yale?


 
T.P.F.K.A.D.W. 
Masters Student
Posts: 680

Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
03-14-16 02:58 PM - Post#204442    
    In response to Penn94

Now Hufnagel's been canned for alleged sexual misconduct.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/collegesports/article /C...

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 6354

Reg: 12-07-04
03-14-16 04:20 PM - Post#204449    
    In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.

Interesting on Hufnagel, a guy many Penn fans wanted as head coach.

As for the Montague story, it's quite the coincidence that this comes out a day after the sports world is talking about the 30 for 30 on Duke Lacrosse.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3047

Reg: 02-04-06
03-14-16 06:06 PM - Post#204463    
    In response to Quakers03

Montague's lawyer's public statement of course is one-sided. It does make specific factual claims about what it says are "uncontested" facts about the encounters between Montague and the accuser that make the expulsion difficult to rationalize. Unless there are other relevant facts not presented by the attorney, I suspect Yale is going to have problems going forward with this case.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4116

Reg: 11-22-04
03-14-16 07:05 PM - Post#204473    
    In response to SRP

Well, it seems pretty obvious that there are additional facts here. Clearly there was an accusation. Unfortunately with these types of cases most of the evidence is generally going to be the statements of the alleged victim and the accused. We don't know precisely what the uncontested "facts" are, but clearly there is a dispute as to whether an assault occurred. The references to other actions taken by the alleged victim may shed some light on the veracity of the accusation, but they don't actually answer the question of whether an assault occurred.



 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 467

Age: 67
Reg: 01-15-16
03-14-16 08:02 PM - Post#204487    
    In response to SomeGuy

I watched the Duke Lacrosse 30 for 30 episode for the first time last evening and it was very disturbing. As a parent, it had to be simply a nightmare. Shame on the prosecutor's office, Newsweek, Duke University, etc. People wonder why our institutions, including the media, are losing credibility.

Hopefully, Yale conducted a careful and thorough investigation for their own sake and reputation of the school. Taking time and getting the facts right should always be the marching orders.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4116

Reg: 11-22-04
03-14-16 08:21 PM - Post#204490    
    In response to bradley

Do you only have sons? I find it interesting that you focus on the nightmare of being the parent of the accused in these cases. Remember that the alleged victim is somebody's daughter as well.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 467

Age: 67
Reg: 01-15-16
03-14-16 08:49 PM - Post#204492    
    In response to SomeGuy

I have both. The point is simply that it is indeed a nightmare to the innocent, whether a boy or girl, when the criminal justice system completely fails due to the malfeasance of a prosecutor's office. The prosecutor was rightly disbarred after the NC Attorneys' Office investigated him. The media, including Newsweek, simply jumped to conclusions which ultimately resulted in a belated apology. I hope that you can put yourself in the shoes of those parents and former accused regarding this specific case.

The Montague case will ultimately stand on its merits. There should be no tolerance for him if indeed he raped the student.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4116

Reg: 11-22-04
03-14-16 09:35 PM - Post#204499    
    In response to bradley

Well, admittedly I'm rather judgmental. I don't want to seem callous about the Duke situation, but I don't think it is hard to avoid situations where such an accusation can be made. Of course that doesn't justify a false accusation, nor does it justify prosecutorial failures. But it's not a situation where anyone looks particularly sympathetic to me.



 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3047

Reg: 02-04-06
03-14-16 10:21 PM - Post#204510    
    In response to SomeGuy

Montague's lawyer claims that the alleged victim did not actually lodge a complaint against Montague--that action was taken by some apparatchik over a year after the events in question had occurred. And SomeGuy is displaying what are sometimes called "white knight" tendencies--applying chivalric norms to a post-feminist world where they do not apply (as Montague's lawyer claims occurred with this sort-of "accuser").

 
Bruno 
Masters Student
Posts: 898

Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
03-15-16 01:11 AM - Post#204521    
    In response to SomeGuy

The idea that situations like this are easy to avoid is certainly an old white man's view. This was not Duke Lacrosse. This was a one-on-one with two students who knew each other. Consentual one-on-one contact happens thousands of times a day on campuses, every day. The only way to avoid them would be to avoid one-on-one contact with a partner. I don't know many college kids - athletes or not - who can go four years like that. Or should.

It's an impossible situation, because you very often can't know what really happened, especially if the victim waits a year to share it, making any forensic research impossible. We don't know what happened, and we won't know. But if you're Yale, all you can do is allow a law enforcement process to unfold and do the best it can. And then react based on that. The University wants to protect its students and its reputation, but isn't equipped to adjudicate - in large part because they are far from an independent party.

Jack Montague may very well deserve to go to jail. If he did this, then he does. But because the right process didn't unfold to properly assess the situation - a law enforcement-led process - hIs expulsion was the wrong outcome.
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4116

Reg: 11-22-04
03-15-16 07:30 AM - Post#204524    
    In response to Bruno

The avoidance statement is about Duke lacrosse, not Montague. I don't think the situations belong in the same conversation, frankly. It bothers me that, when a situation like this arises, we bring up an instance of a false accusation in a different context.

As for SRP's comments, I personally don't think parsing the alleged victim's reaction and how the allegation got into the process is at all dispositive -- if an assault occurred, I don't think there is a "right" reaction that can tell you whether or not the allegation is true. Admittedly, I'm sure there are all kinds of confirmation biases at play here for me -- I've known a victim in one of these types of cases, and I've never known someone who has been accused. So I naturally see the system and its frustrations from the alleged victim's side. That doesn't mean all victims are actually right, but I do lean that way, and I believe this is an issue where the system should lean that way as well.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
Masters Student
Posts: 794

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
Jack Montague
03-15-16 10:27 AM - Post#204535    
    In response to SomeGuy

Interesting reading. An article by Patrick Witt, former Yale QB 'informally accused' of a sexual offense under Yale's procedures.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/11/03/se x...

Witt mentions that Harvard adopted similar rules more recently, leading to public objection by 28 Harvard Law Professors:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/10/14/re t...

The concerns seem to center on the possibility for a student to be punished - even expelled - after an informal process that lacks "fairness" and "due process." (words used by the Harvard Law Professors)

I don't know if Witt was exonerated, or if he sued Yale. Watching the Duke Lacrosse ESPN documentary last night - Fantastic Lies - it was clear that without due process and legal representation, the three students accused in that case would have been formally charged and expelled by Yale or Harvard. Only because criminal charges were brought did due process allow the attorneys for those players the opportunity to see and question the evidence, leading to the exoneration of the players, disbarment and jail time (one day) for the prosecutor, and a retraction from the "victim."

Weighed against the incontrovertible goal of eliminating sexual harrassment and offenses, these are extremely complicated issues.

Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 03-15-16 10:28 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
sparman 
Masters Student
Posts: 772
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
Jack Montague
03-15-16 01:02 PM - Post#204555    
    In response to bradley

  • bradley Said:
As a parent, it had to be simply a nightmare.


I know one of the parents, it was. And they had to spend several hundred thousand in fees long before any settlement was in the picture. I know that justice is the objective, but we should be able to rely on public officials exercising reasonable judgment before making people incur such burdens.


 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 467

Age: 67
Reg: 01-15-16
Re: Jack Montague
06-10-16 03:53 PM - Post#207559    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Montague has initiated a lawsuit against Yale. Hopefully, at the end of the day, truth and justice will prevail; no matter what the outcome.

 
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